Hey! Two Cold Wars in one lifetime, how lucky can a generation get?

[Jim Halisstrad]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2094839,00.html

Future forecasts predict a slight chance for nuclear winter in the future.  Grab your snowshoes and your Geiger counter, just in case of an outbreak of stupid.


Double edit bonus fun.

Current "Headline" on cnn.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/03/nh.debate.main/index.html

[Cvstos]

Putin has a point in that he says we are creating the shield against missiles from Iran and North Korea while the fact remains that neither is capable of firing missiles at the United States. The only country in that area of the world that can hit the US is Russia. Even if rogue terrorists gain access to the warheads and ICBMs themselves, it's unlikely that they'd actually be able to control them to hit the US. Any nuclear attack on the US would have to be via a smuggled in warhead or by Russia itself.

This presents a potentially grave threat. The Cold War represents a possible scenario in which no one on earth survives, except cockroaches. (And we've got President Chucklehead at the helm.)

My own personal view is this. We have every right to create a missile defense shield, although I would not build it in eastern Europe if at all possible, in order to make things less turbulent with Russia. But I do fully support the idea. However, the current system Bush is trying to implement, simply does not work. The technology is not currently viable. Sometime in the future this will change, but diplomacy is a lot cheaper than the hundreds of billions a non-working shield will cost. Had it worked, my opinion might be different. The fact remains that if Russia were to launch a nuclear attack against us, the shield would be lucky to stop a handful of missiles, compared to the hundreds that we would be attacked with (which would be more than enough to create a M.A.D. situation).

Thus, the shield should be abandoned until we can build one that actually works. Even then, let's avoid putting parts of that into eastern Europe. Not only will that smooth tensions with Russia, but I'm also not willing to hand over parts of our defense over to Lithuania. That money could be put into good use elsewhere in the meantime, and we can achieve a greater degree of peace in this already war-ravaged world.

[Netami]

It never snows in Southern California, I'll be fine.

[Alondro]

Bah, Russia.  Their infrastructure is such a mess their missles will likely go up and fall right back down on them again.   

Besides, superviruses are much more effective... and as the TB patient has shown, very easy to get in even if you're on a no-fly list.   

Or you just sneak across the border of Mexico.   

[rabid_fox]

Two Cold Wars cancel out Global Warming, right?

[ITOS]

Besides, superviruses are much more effective...

They can even kill cockroaches!

You only need to find a way to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading to your own contry. Easy... 

[Jim Halisstrad]

Two Cold Wars cancel out Global Warming, right?

Sounds plausible to me

[Valynth]

Well, You've got to realise that we don't know what North Korea and Iran's nuclear or missile capabilities are.  I mean, that's why the world is currently giving them angry looks.

Also, we can't be sure the missile defense will work for them same reason we can't claim the defense system will fail.  It simply hasn't been put to use in the real world, because we've fought long and hard to keep nuclear nations from firing.

[GabrielsThoughts]

actualluy some argue that the war on terror is actually a third world war.

[Cvstos]

Well, You've got to realise that we don't know what North Korea and Iran's nuclear or missile capabilities are.  I mean, that's why the world is currently giving them angry looks.

Also, we can't be sure the missile defense will work for them same reason we can't claim the defense system will fail.  It simply hasn't been put to use in the real world, because we've fought long and hard to keep nuclear nations from firing.

There are currently no indications that N. Korea or Iran have anything that can come close to the US.  Iran can probably hit Isreal and N. Korea can hit S. Korea or maybe Japan, but the US does have some natural protection (the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean) that acts as a buffer.  Only real, serious, long-range weapons can hit us, and right now that's beyond the abilities of the vast majority of nations.  To make that more significant, basically only first-world countries, plus maybe China.  Pretty much every first-world country is on good terms with the US, and China wouldn't DARE attack the US when they're such a unbelievably huge trading partner.

[Alondro]

Besides, superviruses are much more effective...

You only need to find a way to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading to your own contry. Easy... 

Now why would I want to do that?  I only need to make sure it doesn't get me.  Then my mutant clones will take over the decimated world... and then the cosmos!   

*Yippy, Skippy, The Evil*   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I thought Skippy wasn't allowed to do that?

[Valynth]

There are currently no indications that N. Korea or Iran have anything that can come close to the US.  Iran can probably hit Isreal and N. Korea can hit S. Korea or maybe Japan, but the US does have some natural protection (the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean) that acts as a buffer.  Only real, serious, long-range weapons can hit us, and right now that's beyond the abilities of the vast majority of nations.  To make that more significant, basically only first-world countries, plus maybe China.  Pretty much every first-world country is on good terms with the US, and China wouldn't DARE attack the US when they're such a unbelievably huge trading partner.

"No Indication?"  Last time I checked my military strategy, a key element of every conflict is keeping your enemy from noticing what you're doing.  Iran and N. Korea have been doing rather good on that angle.

There is also a potential for Russia to sell some of their long range missiles to lesser countries specifically so that they can hit the U.S.  just look at the Cuban Missile Crisis and last I checked Russia isn't exactly a first world country anymore.

Also, who says these sites are to protect the U.S.?  We could actually be trying to help these countries protect themselves.  Is that really so hard to believe?

I could understand Russia's concern if these systems were offensive in nature, but now it seems like they're crying foul because they don't have a gun pointed at the head of the world anymore.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Also, who says these sites are to protect the U.S.?  We could actually be trying to help these countries protect themselves.  Is that really so hard to believe?

With Bush in command? Frankly, yes. :-[

[bill]

Also, who says these sites are to protect the U.S.?  We could actually be trying to help these countries protect themselves.  Is that really so hard to believe?

With Bush in command? Frankly, yes. :-[

Only for one more year...


Then we have Manny Ramirez, assuming my campaign works.

[Alondro]

Also, who says these sites are to protect the U.S.?  We could actually be trying to help these countries protect themselves.  Is that really so hard to believe?

With Bush in command? Frankly, yes. :-[

Ok, I got to know.  Is Bush a blithering idiot who can't speak one sentence without fumbling, or a brilliantly clever evil genius plotting world domination for the Illuminate?   From what the Libs say, he must be both!  therefore, he has multiple personalities. 

Or maybe there are TWO George W. Bush's!  And the true leader is the super-genius original and the one proffered up for the cameras and speeches is the brain-damaged clone!

*that outa get the lunatic conspiracy theorists going... as we planned all along*   

[Netrogo]

I've known plenty of stupid geniuses so, even if Bush turns out to be super genius global conqueror, I'll still call him an idiot.

[Cvstos]

It's hard to keep ICBMs a secret these days.  Making them is tough and we're spying on them with satellites 24/7/365.  These cameras are hundreds of times better than anything we had in the cold war.  In addition, you actually have to test ICBMs to know you have something.  Otherwise all you have is something that might work, but also might explode on the launch pad.

If N. Korea and Iran genuinely did have ICBMs that could reach the US, we'd know about it. 

It is unlikely that Russia would sell ICBMs to unstable countries.  World opinion would then move very swiftly against them.  Even if done in secret, it would eventually be uncovered, especially if they actually used the bombs.  Nuclear explosions are rather noticable. 

In addition, Russia isn't the most popular country in the world right now, either.  Russia has had it's own issues with terrorism, and they have every reason to keep their nukes under tight control.  If Chechen terrorists got their hands on one of those warheads, they'd be bombing Russia, not the US.

[superluser]

"No Indication?"  Last time I checked my military strategy, a key element of every conflict is keeping your enemy from noticing what you're doing.  Iran and N. Korea have been doing rather good on that angle.

Well, N. Korea did try to set off a nuclear warhead, and it fissled.  (fissle--when the fissile material is ejected before it can reach critical mass).  That's not keeping your cards hidden.  That's practically advertising that you're at least a couple years away from having a nuclear arsenal that's of any use.

...also, if Russia isn't a first world nation, then it never was.  First world is the western-developed nations.  Second world is the communist bloc countries.  Third world is the developing world.

Ok, I got to know.  Is Bush a blithering idiot who can't speak one sentence without fumbling, or a brilliantly clever evil genius plotting world domination for the Illuminate?

How about, he's a simpleton who can call upon the resources of the entire United States, and can tell people far more intelligent than he to draw up workable plans based on his crackpot ideas?

[techmaster-glitch]

How about, he's a simpleton who can call upon the resources of the entire United States, and can tell people far more intelligent than he to draw up workable plans based on his crackpot ideas?

So sadly true... 

[Arcalane]

"No Indication?"  Last time I checked my military strategy, a key element of every conflict is keeping your enemy from noticing what you're doing.  Iran and N. Korea have been doing rather good on that angle.

Well, N. Korea did try to set off a nuclear warhead, and it fissled.  (fissle--when the fissile material is ejected before it can reach critical mass).

Fizzle + nerdspeak = fissle.

Anything that doesn't explode that's supposed to explode is generally described as having fizzled.

[Zorro]

Anti-ICBMs kill only ICBMs.

ICBMs kill people and cities by the millions.

So trying to make the ICBM an obsolete weapon is evil?  I think not.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Well...  technically, the missile itself doesn't kill anyone (unless it happens to land on some poor sucker's head), it's whatever's inside the missile that kills peeps.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, N. Korea did try to set off a nuclear warhead, and it fissled.  (fissle--when the fissile material is ejected before it can reach critical mass).

Fizzle + nerdspeak = fissle.

Anything that doesn't explode that's supposed to explode is generally described as having fizzled.

The interesting thing in this case is that N Korea might be playing a shell game, and simply stacked up a pile of TNT and set it off.

That's certainly within their capabilities, but it keeps people guessing as to what state the nuclear program is in, doesn't it?

[Reese Tora]

Anti-ICBMs kill only ICBMs.

ICBMs kill people and cities by the millions.

So trying to make the ICBM an obsolete weapon is evil?  I think not.

Not to the people that it makes ICBMs obsolete to use against.  For the people who might potentially want to launch ICBMs at said people, on the other hand (say, in an act of mutually assured destruction ) it's a very evil thing to transform what might be considered a level playing field.

It's essentially fears that the US could make itself immune to direct attacks, thus allowing it to make it's own direct attacks agaisnt others without fear of retribution.  (Never mind that retribution, direct or indirect, would almost certainly come in some form or another at some point in the future.)

Now, if everyone had equivalent anti-ICBM technology deployed, this would be another story. (Imagine a world where any launched ICBM had little to no chance of reaching any destination other than destruction.)  Of course, then the technology drive would be to create something that could circumvent the protections in some way, and everyone would have a copy of the system to study for weaknesses.

[Alondro]

How about, he's a simpleton who can call upon the resources of the entire United States, and can tell people far more intelligent than he to draw up workable plans based on his crackpot ideas?

So sadly true... 

Which must mean that Bill Clinton was even dumber, because all he could do for his entire presidency was play with sluts and cigars in the Oval Office. 

Not to mention, he couldn't even catch Bin Ladin when another country offered him to us after the first Trade Center bombing.

And there's good ol Al Gore and his global warming.  Praising China's environmental policies in his little PowerPoint presentation.  Now what was that I just heard about China's pollution levels?  Not to mention the head of NASA just said on NPR that global warming can't be blamed on the tiny overall increase in CO2 levels.  Plus, many of the sceintists whose names appear on the UN study re upset because they were included EVEN THOUGH THEY DISAGREED COMPLETELY WITH THE CONSENSUS.  And Al Gore dramatically exaggerated the effect that global warming would have.

Plus, you must also ignore ice ages and the warming after them... humans didn't cause either of those things, and science doesn't know why they happened.  If climatologists can't even get a working theory of how such major climate shifts occured, why is everyone so sure about the belief in human activity causing global warming now?  A shift which has so far demonstrated a global increase in temperatures of only half a degree and a rise in CO2 from 35 parts per million to 36.  Ah, because it pits Republicans against Democrats.  It's not an inconvenient truth.  It's a politically convenient half-truth.

A 'consensus' is not science.  The fact that it had to be called a consensus means there was too much dissent and conflicitng evidence to call it a 'theory'.  Frankly, the actual science cannot provide any more than an anecdotal link, and works only if you ignore the SOHO finding that the Sun's solar energy output has been 1% greater in the recent years, simply due to its variable nature. 

If someone stupid is smart enough to get more intelligent people to follow him and make his plans work, what does that say of the intelligence of those who simply believe and jump on the bandwagon of every half-cocked notion that their party throws at them?  Ethanol from corn anyone?  Oh, please ignore the fact that you can't afford to feed yourself anymore because we've used up all the cropland! 

Legalize millions of illegal immigrants.  Forget the fact that the vast majority of them will end up paying no taxes due to their low income status and large families, plus cost untold hundreds of billions (if not several trillion, from the higher estimates) in Social Security and Medicare.  Or that they can perpetually remain on a Z-visa and never face the $5000 fine for breaking the immigration laws if they want to attain citizenship. 

Plus, it rewards the 1 million or so of those illegals who have criminal records with the same visa and citizenship priviledges of those who just want higher paying jobs.

By the way, have you seen what Mexico does to anyone who sneaks in there illegally?  The Mexican government gives brochures to help people sneak into the US, but instantly jails anyone who goes into Mexico.  Talk about hypocrisy.

Ok, Bush has so far sided with Democrats on this... which means they're even more cleverly stupid than he is!  They've managed to create a bill which will bankrupt the country in less than a decade... and gotten him and other more intelligent people to draw up workable plans based on their crackpot ideas!

George Soros and his MoveOn crew must be cackling with glee. 

Considering all the people who jump on board these things without even looking at the evidence or the consequences for themselves, there are a whole lot of people far dumber than W out there. 

After all, look how many Democrats still love socialism, even though it can never work in practice because it ignore basic human nature, which the Democrats themselves demonstrate when they cry for wind energy and then protest the building of windmills because they'll ruin the view from their mansions (John Edwards, I'm giving you the finger on this one).  Equality for all... as long as they can remain rich and in control dictating this 'equality' to the masses.

I'd rather have Bush than Castro, thank you very much.

[King Of Hearts]

Hmm... the last time this happened, the USSR collapsed trying to keep up with the US economy...

but now, the US' war economy is actually faltering...

I wonder if anyone will have the cajones to actually use one of these firecrackers this time around.

[Valynth]

Hmm... the last time this happened, the USSR collapsed trying to keep up with the US economy...

but now, the US' war economy is actually faltering...

I wonder if anyone will have the cajones to actually use one of these firecrackers this time around.

I'll believe the U.S. economy is faltering when the bread lines form thank-you.

Also, the reason people jump on the global warming band wagon is because they have the arrogance to assume that we can some-how control the entire earth with our "Techno-Wizardry."  This coupled with the lust to discover some kind of conspiracy results in people believing that some company is keeping secrets and therefore they must be the cause of global warming.

In short, is a massive cluster of what I call the "scape goat effect."  This occurs when somebody feels guilt for little or no reason, usually it's a problem with their mental health than any real action taken, and in order to make them feel as though they are not a fault they blame anyone or anything they can.

On the note of socialism, the only way to be equal on everything to everyone is to deny everyone everything.

[Netrogo]

On the note of socialism, the only way to be equal on everything to everyone is to deny everyone everything.

That reminds me of the line 'I'm not racist, I hate everyone equally.'

[Arcalane]

Well, N. Korea did try to set off a nuclear warhead, and it fissled.  (fissle--when the fissile material is ejected before it can reach critical mass).

Fizzle + nerdspeak = fissle.

Anything that doesn't explode that's supposed to explode is generally described as having fizzled.

The interesting thing in this case is that N Korea might be playing a shell game, and simply stacked up a pile of TNT and set it off.

That's certainly within their capabilities, but it keeps people guessing as to what state the nuclear program is in, doesn't it?

You would need a significant amount of TNT, and if surveillance is as good as people say it is, such a thing probably would have been noticed.

But yes, that is rather underhanded...