So a coyote walks into a restaurant...

[Destina Faroda]

I'm actually more appaled by the behavior of the customers than by the coyote.

I know you can't run from a coyote, as that would trigger it to chase you and kill you.  But to actually take pictures and finish their meals instead of either immeditately getting away and/or shooting that animal is like draping a "sucide" sign around your neck.  Don't they know that the coyote might have been stopping in there to make a meal out of the customers?  Or even if it was full, that it would attack a person for any reason it deems provocation?

A coyote is a wild animal and a danger to the public.  Why don't people realize this?

[Aisha deCabre]

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that.  Coyotes are kinda small wild dogs, smaller than wolves, and though they aren't as shy around humans you hardly hear of attacks on them for prey.  If you watched the news video you'd have seen animal control dragging it off.  It's too small to actively prey on a person.

Especially when coyotes only really prey on smaller mammals.  And there was only one of it, outnumbered by people so many times more to one.

[superluser]

Coyotes are kinda small wild dogs, smaller than wolves, and though they aren't as shy around humans you hardly hear of attacks on them for prey.  If you watched the news video you'd have seen animal control dragging it off.  It's too small to actively prey on a person.

Especially when coyotes only really prey on smaller mammals.  And there was only one of it, outnumbered by people so many times more to one.

I gotta disagree.  A chimpanzee has an average mass of 40-60kg(*), and it could easily kill a man in an unarmed fight.  Coyotes have an average mass of 35kg(+).  If you get into a fight with a coyote, you're probably liable to require reconstructive surgery at the least.  Plus rabies, worms, fleas, &c.

On the other hand, it was in the drink cooler with the door closed.  Not too threatening.  If it advances, you just stick a broom through the handles.


(*) http://pin.primate.wisc.edu/factsheets/entry/chimpanzee
(+) http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/wildlife/wildgame/coyconfl.htm

[xHaZxMaTx]

There's no door on the drink cooler.

[Cvstos]

Destina: Coyote and Wolf attacks are exceedingly rare, even more so when rabies isn't involved.  These aren't as big as you'd think, and coyotes rarely attack things bigger than it.  Only wolves go after large prey.  Coyotes are only concerned with stuff smaller than it. 

In fact, if you were to take the wolf and coyote attack list and remove everything caused by rabies and people provoking the animal, the list would be extremely short. 

In California, about one person per year is bitten by a coyote, and of those very few actually cause anything even requiring stitches.  Most of the time the attacks will involve very small children (again, they look for things smaller than them), but even then you're looking at only a handful of incidents nationwide.  To put this in perspective, millions of kids a year are bitten by domestic dogs.  Now which animal is a problem again?

Wolves are larger, more powerful, and potentially far more dangerous.  However, they don't live where we do.  Urban coyotes are common.  Wolves require areas largely left untouched by humans.  Urban wolves are really only found at zoos.  Hence, actual human-wolf contact in an uncontrolled environment is extremely rare.

Thus, the list of wolf attacks on humans is even shorter than that of coyotes!  This is especially true in North America, and as rabies declines the attacks get rarer and rarer.  You are thousands and thousands of times more likely to be hit by lightning than injured by coyote or wolf attack. 

[superluser]

Then there are the dingoes.  I hear the ones around Ayers Rock can be especially dangerous. (There was a tourist at a rock; a dingo ate her baby.  D-I-N-G-O, D-I-N-G-O, D-I-N-G-O, a dingo ate her baby.)

[Boog]

A Curious Coyote Cantered into Quizno's. The Canny Customers couldn't bother avoiding the calm carnavore, and instead comenced clicking cameras.

Alright, I'm done. Back to the amusing mental image of Wile E ordering a road runner wrap to go.

[GabrielsThoughts]

Coyotes are adorable. With fully functional teeth when they are born, they are probably hell on their momma's titty; but I've seen no evidence that they're any more dangerous than a Toy poodle or a Fox. Not to mention there are Coydogs Coyfoxes and Coywolves in the wild

[Cvstos]

Actually foxes can only interbreed with other foxes.  The Vulpes genetic makeup is closer to cats than dogs, as I understand it.  They just can't mix with canines.

[Alondro]

Heh, these people actualy gained my respect a bit by NOT freaking out.  Here in Jersey we have huge numbers of city-bred twits migrating into the woods who are afraid of squirrels, groundhogs, and vultures.

Not to mention, coyotes are quite small compared to the animals I've worked with.  And if I can handle those, I think a coyote would be no problem at all.  I worked with tigers for a year.  Tigers.  24 of them.  I hardly think a little doggie-like critter is a match for me.

If you can't take the wild, stay in the city and choke to death on yer damn smog!  The critters an us ge5ts along jes fine.   

[Destina Faroda]

Heh, these people actualy gained my respect a bit by NOT freaking out.  Here in Jersey we have huge numbers of city-bred twits migrating into the woods who are afraid of squirrels, groundhogs, and vultures.

Not to mention, coyotes are quite small compared to the animals I've worked with.  And if I can handle those, I think a coyote would be no problem at all.  I worked with tigers for a year.  Tigers.  24 of them.  I hardly think a little doggie-like critter is a match for me.

If you can't take the wild, stay in the city and choke to death on yer damn smog!  The critters an us ge5ts along jes fine.   

What the heck?

Maybe you've been trained to work with animals, but you're an exception to the rule.

I've seen what happens to people when wild animals lose their fear of people.  Even "cute" herbivores like rabbits and squirrels will gang up on people, rummage through their stuff, steal food, and scratch and bite.  If the animals ever decided to gang up and turn against people, we'd be so screwed that we'd have to nuke the planet to make sure they didn't win.

The fact is that that animals not only naturally have more muscle mass (as mentioned before, an average unarmed chimpanzee could easily kill even a proferssional athlete in a one-on-one match), but they have things like fangs, other oversized teeth, claws, and disease to end a human's life very quickly.  Coyotes are one of these animals.  And saying they aren't much more dangerous than dogs is faint praise, given how many deaths and injuries can be attributed to domesticated dogs.

And as far as people staying out of the wild, the coyote came into the restaurant.  It's a tragedy someone wasn't packing heat and didn't shoot that bastard on sight.

[Aridas]

People go out into the wild. It's tragedy when animals aren't packing heat and don't shoot those bastards on sight.

[superluser]

It's a tragedy someone wasn't packing heat and didn't shoot that bastard on sight.

Yeah.  Real tragedy.  Do you know how much blood those things have in them?  If you want to clean that up while observing biohazard standards for handling of blood (so that you don't lose your license to the Health Board), be my guest.

If you had a tranquilizer, you could down the coyote without spilling a drop of blood, and get away with simply spraying some germicidal cleaner.  The coyote could be destroyed elsewhere.

[Destina Faroda]

That's true.  Maybe they could put some antifreeze in a Fido's bowl and give it to the coyote, then shoot it with a tranquilizer.  Then again, since it's so cold, they might actually need the antifreeze...

[xHaZxMaTx]

Animals are stronger, have claws and teeth, etc., etc., but humans have animals outnumbered in brain power a billion to one (not literally, but you get my point).

[Cvstos]

Again, coyotes rarely go after things larger than themselves, and coyote attacks on humans are exceedingly rare.  You're far more likely to be bitten by a domestic dog than a coyote.  In fact, coyotes are rather small and weigh only about 35 pounds.  A healthy adult human with their wits about them could beat a coyote senseless, which is exactly why coyotes avoid attacking things larger than them.  I'd image the thought patterns of the coyote going into the restaurant were something along the lines of: "Hey, it's nice in here.  Good smells, too.  Oh, humans, that's cool.  Wow, it's really nice 'n refreshing in this big black thing.  I'm gonna hang out here for a while."  

My little sheltie weighs about 25 lbs.  (He's big for a sheltie.  Beyond show spec.)  That means that a coyote isn't that much bigger than he is.  My Golden Retriever is about 70 lbs, which is far heavier and larger than a coyote.  I'd imagine that when he was in his prime he would be more than a match for a coyote.  That is, if he wasn't the sweetest, most forgiving pile of pudding you ever saw.  He might just let a coyote eat him and forgive him for it.  

German Shepards, used for decades by police and the military, average around 80 lbs and are far more dangerous than a coyote.

To put this in contrast, a timber wolf, one of the largest of all wild canines, ranges from 70 to a whopping 135 pounds.  This means that a runt of a wolf will outmass an average coyote by a factor of two.  In fact, if you hear coyotes howling, playing a recording of a wolf howl will likely stop them and scatter any coyotes in earshot.  Why?  Wolves sometimes prey on coyotes.  (The only wild canines that are larger are variations of the Timber Wolf - the Russian Wolf and Tundra Wolf.  At least, so far as I know.  There might be others, but I think that even if I did miss a larger variant, these are very close to the largest.)

(Wolves and coyotes both prey on foxes, which top out at about 15 lbs.  Foxes are very light, almost cat-like.  In fact, that have the same vertical pupils as cats do.)

[Alondro]

I always think it's hilarious when the little woodland creatures gang up on people.  Geese are notorious for that.  Watching grown men run screaming from a bunch of honking birds is simply a wonderous sight.

Those people need to grow a pair.  We scientists have developed artificial hormones to help with that very thing!

That, and to develop hyper-steroided attack animals to destroy the inferiors of the human race so only the Illuminate remain.   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... A healthy adult human with their wits about them...

Aye. And therein lies the rub...

[thegayhare]

I always think it's hilarious when the little woodland creatures gang up on people.  Geese are notorious for that.  Watching grown men run screaming from a bunch of honking birds is simply a wonderous sight.

Well to be honest hon Geese are nasty, mean, and vicous birds.  Prone to attack anything intering there territory.  Some places use them as guard animals.  Plus goose bites hurt like hell or so I've been told.

[Kasarn]

One time, long ago, I fed the geese at my school. NEVER AGAIN!

(p.s. just thought I'd add that I was only 12 at the time )

[Jim Halisstrad]

I'm sorry that you were apparently molested by wildlife when you were a kid

[Tapewolf]

And as far as people staying out of the wild, the coyote came into the restaurant.  It's a tragedy someone wasn't packing heat and didn't shoot that bastard on sight.

If I were to do something like that in the UK, I would be crucified.

Say I was a farmer with a shotgun license (as you probably know, guns are highly restricted in the UK).  If a fox or a stray Alsatian (which is far and away more dangerous than the coyote) strolled into a restaurant and I blew its head off there and then, the RSPCA would go positively apeshit.  They'd throw the book at me.

I'd probably be looking at at least 10-15 years for just that, to say nothing of any civil lawsuits brought about by the restaurant owners, distraught onlookers, parents of traumatised children and so forth.  The public outcry alone could bring it up to 20 years in pokey.  People would probably lay flowers or hold a vigil or something where the beast was shot.

[Cvstos]

Translation for Americans: According to wikipedia, Alsatian = German Shepard

[superluser]

If I were to do something like that in the UK, I would be crucified.

To be fair, it's the same in the US.  It varies from state to state, but in Illinois, that would probably be 720 ILCS 5/24‑1.2 Aggravated discharge of a firearm(*), a class 1 felony, carrying a sentence of up to 50 years and $50,000.  At the very least, it would be Reckless discharge of a firearm, class 4 felony, up to 10 years and $20,000.

Don't know what it's like wherever Destina is.


(*) A person commits aggravated discharge of a firearm when he or she knowingly or intentionally discharges a firearm at or into a building he or she knows or reasonably should know to be occupied and the firearm is discharged from a place or position outside that building;

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

So... if you check to make sure there's nobody in the line of fire and that there's a solid backstop and minimal risk of ricochet... you can still get done for reckless discharge of a firearm?

[superluser]

So... if you check to make sure there's nobody in the line of fire and that there's a solid backstop and minimal risk of ricochet... you can still get done for reckless discharge of a firearm?

If you fire it indoors in a public area without the threat of imminent bodily harm, probably.  You're not even supposed to discharge a weapon at all in Chicago--it's a $250-500 fine.

[EvilIguana966]

Heh, these people actualy gained my respect a bit by NOT freaking out.  Here in Jersey we have huge numbers of city-bred twits migrating into the woods who are afraid of squirrels, groundhogs, and vultures.

Not to mention, coyotes are quite small compared to the animals I've worked with.  And if I can handle those, I think a coyote would be no problem at all.  I worked with tigers for a year.  Tigers.  24 of them.  I hardly think a little doggie-like critter is a match for me.

If you can't take the wild, stay in the city and choke to death on yer damn smog!  The critters an us ge5ts along jes fine.   

What the heck?

Maybe you've been trained to work with animals, but you're an exception to the rule.

I've seen what happens to people when wild animals lose their fear of people.  Even "cute" herbivores like rabbits and squirrels will gang up on people, rummage through their stuff, steal food, and scratch and bite.  If the animals ever decided to gang up and turn against people, we'd be so screwed that we'd have to nuke the planet to make sure they didn't win.

The fact is that that animals not only naturally have more muscle mass (as mentioned before, an average unarmed chimpanzee could easily kill even a proferssional athlete in a one-on-one match), but they have things like fangs, other oversized teeth, claws, and disease to end a human's life very quickly.  Coyotes are one of these animals.  And saying they aren't much more dangerous than dogs is faint praise, given how many deaths and injuries can be attributed to domesticated dogs.

And as far as people staying out of the wild, the coyote came into the restaurant.  It's a tragedy someone wasn't packing heat and didn't shoot that bastard on sight.

You have a very grim view of wildlife.  Now, I value human life above animal life in general.  I make exceptions of course for people whose impact on the world is fully negative.  I value the life of my dogs far more than I value the life of a militant Muslim terrorist for example.  However, I don't think people should shoot every wild animal they see because it has a minuscule chance of possibly maybe causing them harm.  Aside from the moral arguments, there are some very pragmatic functional arguments to be made as well.  We aren't so technologically advanced that we can replace or even completely understand the roles of every creature on the planet.  So just wiping out every animal that has bitey teeth and slashy claws would be a mistake. 

I certainly grant people the right to defend themselves from a wild animal.  But as others have pointed out that is a rare situation.  Most of the time when people and animals clash it's due in large part to the person simply not using his head.  Most animals do their best to avoid conflict with people.  Problems typically arise when a human forces the animal, intentionally or otherwise, into a situation where it has to interact.  A bit of knowledge is the best medicine in most cases.  Almost no animals would choose to eat a human over anything else.  As it turns out we are too much effort for too little reward and any creature that may have had us as a dietary staple long ago died out.  Animals are the ultimate pragmatists, they have to be to survive, so they prefer prey that provides the most nutritional value for the least amount of effort.  Humans don't fit that bill, so only desperate or sick beasts would kill a person to eat.

The diners did the correct thing.  They were never in any mortal danger and quite rightly took the opportunity to document a rare occurrence.  If the coyote had shown more aggression it would have been different.  Life would be really boring if you eliminated every tiny risk.

[Alondro]

Not to mention humans apparently don't taste very good.    Some sort of metabolic byproduct we harbor in our muscle which is bitter, if I recall.  I read that in a Nature journal article years ago... shoulda saved that one.   

And with sharks, it's almost always the case that the shark spits the person out after the first bite.  Sharks want prey with lots of fat, and since most surfers are very skinny or muscular, they're not what the sharks are after:  seals, which a swimming surfer mimics on his board, and the gangly movements are like those of a sick/injured seal... which says to the shark "Dinner Time!"  Then CRUNCH!  Ack!  What's this bony thing!  Bleah!   

[EvilIguana966]

The thing about being a shark is, if you happen to be curious about what ANYTHING you see is, you only have one way of exploring it in detail.  A little exploratory bite from a great white is no minor thing for a human.  But you're right about shark attacks.  The fact of the matter is that if the sharks really wanted to eat the people they bite nobody would survive longer than a few seconds because they'd be ripped apart and swallowed not mutilated and left alone. 

[thegayhare]

Funny story I heard about sharks

Aparently the color yellow that most inflatable life rafts were made out of is now what shark biologists call Yum Yum Yellow.

Since for some reason to a sharks brain that particulare color just screams "FOOD!!"  and then along come humans who make all there emergancy flotation devices that color.

I think thats why there has been a shift to blaze orange