In comic time and conservation of energy?

[Psy-Kosh]

When Cubi reach a particular level, they don't need to even take in oxygen to breathe. It's hard to put a creature who's physics are completly unnatural into natural terms.  And that isn't even attempting to tack on the magical physics which always put a monkey wrench into logical understandings.   At best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage).  They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion. Repeat cycle.  And as I said, this is a rare case example.  Not the norm in any sense.  It takes an insane amount of discipline and determination to pull it off...and it likely would help if they were powerful to begin with.

Hrm... if they mainly feed on magical energy... Why need oxygen at all? (unless they store the energy in chemical form)

I mean, isn't oxygen mainly just something that lets us process glucose and stuff much more efficiently?

As for my 9,000 comment, I wouldn't think too much about applying humans to the scenario.  While beings in DMFA have a similar setup as humans in our world do, they aren't running completly parallel to our society and a few people have tripped over things not lining up perfectly.

I didn't say it was parallel. Sorry, maybe I was unclear. All I mean was is "hrmm... didn't Amber once say that humans used to exist in that world then dissapeared? And now some event 9,000 years in the past made a race dissapear in the dmfa world... ergo perhaps those two things are related?"

[superluser]

I would guess that 'cubi use magic (an invisible, inexhaustible, omnipresent energy source external to a creature) to metabolize raw emotion into the energy thier bodies can use.  Then a self feeding cubi would be more analogous to a hydrogen powered car.  Raw emotion that feeds the 'cubi is like water, and the cubi burns uses magic(energy) to turn emotion(water) into whatever mysterious thing it is that is life(hydrogen)

I can deal with that explanation.  Except, of course, that hydrogen cars don't work like that.  If you want to say that there's some luminiferous aether that carries magic, and that's the source of energy, that's fine.

Obviously demons do, and cubi are +10 sexy.

Well, Maxwell's Demon actually *doesn't* obey the laws of thermodynamics.  It also cannot exist, as it was based on the pre-quantum understanding of Maxwell's equations.

At best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage).  They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion.

But where do the other two points of energy come from?  The can't come from the `cubi, because they don't have that energy, yet.

I mean, isn't oxygen mainly just something that lets us process glucose and stuff much more efficiently?

I don't remember the Krebs cycle.  At all.  But I'm pretty sure that there are several points at which O2 is necessary for the thing to function at all, not just efficiently.

[Amber Williams]

But where do the other two points of energy come from?  The can't come from the `cubi, because they don't have that energy, yet.

Maybe faith in some higher power, maybe determination undiscovered, I can't explain all the physics in the world much like people can't explain miracles in our own. That's why they are rare and miraculous scenarios rather than a common everday occurance.  Offhand it is like hearing about in our world someone who survived six shots to the head and came out without any major permanent damage. 

I really try to stress the rare factor here since people have a tendency to assume that a lot of things are standard norm.  And even then me saying higher power is a BS reason cause in the case of DMFA, no one is sure how it works out because it is so unheard of.  Sometimes your only option is faith or stretching science.

[Zedd]

Well it seems nice to milk the knowalge from the goddess who has a slight case of ADD yet evil to boot

[Jim Halisstrad]

Since Amber seems to be dealing out the information, here is the main question that everyone is thinking:  Where do they get the know how for such Rad fashion statements? Hey, look at able before he knew he was a cubi, it's all instinct baby.  The sheer style is almost unhandable.

[Amber Williams]

Since Amber seems to be dealing out the information, here is the main question that everyone is thinking:  Where do they get the know how for such Rad fashion statements? Hey, look at able before he knew he was a cubi, it's all instinct baby.  The sheer style is almost unhandable.

Few people realize this, but fashion is actually a seventh sense.  Cubi have heightened fashion senses from birth.

[Zedd]

Yay for good looking when born..Specialy when your nine minutes old!

[Amber Williams]

Cubi bebes are some of the cutest bebes around. 

[Psy-Kosh]

Well, Maxwell's Demon actually *doesn't* obey the laws of thermodynamics.  It also cannot exist, as it was based on the pre-quantum understanding of Maxwell's equations.

Er... what does Maxwell's Demon have to do with Maxwell's equations at all? The former is an issue of thermodynamics (well, statistical mechanics) and the latter is electromagnetics.

I don't remember the Krebs cycle.  At all.  But I'm pretty sure that there are several points at which O2 is necessary for the thing to function at all, not just efficiently.

I meant the benefit of the cycle is efficiency... and it's still just for processing.. glucose, right?

ie, if your energy source is something entirely different, then what're you doing with the oxygen?

[Amber Williams]

ie, if your energy source is something entirely different, then what're you doing with the oxygen?

Well be sure to keep in mind that you don't get all the Cubi boons right off the bat...and you do spend at least 20-25 years with the same physics as most normal beings.  It's just once you hit a certain level you start to evolve and begin to be more magical-based than biology-based.  Sleep is usually the first to go, followed by food, then water, breathing tends to go out last, but even then most still do it out of habit and because it makes talking a whole lot easier.  But that is a process that takes hundreds of years if not a thousand. (it really depends on how you go about it and what your priorities are)

If you want an example, I'll say now that Dan is at a point where sleep is slowly becomming optional...where as Abel has bypassed sleep/food/water and can go without breathing for a few hours at a time.

[Kasarn]

Cubi bebes are some of the cutest bebes around. 

What about Insectis babies?

[Tapewolf]

There has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage.  It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.

Emotion isn't the same kind of energy that normal energy is.  It doesn't come from a hamburger, it can't be stored.  In otherwords, your theory is going wrong because you assume that the emotional energy has to come from some form of reserve.  A better example would likely be comparing emotions to sunlight and the Cubi having a form of photosynthesis that enables them to create their own energy from it.

So what you're basically saying here is that 'Cubi use emotional energy to crack/metabolise magical energy present in the universe?  Sounds good to me.

When Cubi reach a particular level, they don't need to even take in oxygen to breathe. It's hard to put a creature who's physics are completly unnatural into natural terms.  And that isn't even attempting to tack on the magical physics which always put a monkey wrench into logical understandings.

So they do gradually transition from a conventional metabolism to a magical one...  that's been my assumption, but it's nice to see it confirmed

At best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage).  They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion. Repeat cycle.  And as I said, this is a rare case example.  Not the norm in any sense.  It takes an insane amount of discipline and determination to pull it off...and it likely would help if they were powerful to begin with.

Wouldn't that mean that in theory you could bootstrap yourself from 'cubi to tri-wing without eating a single soul?  That would probably mean spending 10'000 years or more in a permanent state of rage or fear or whatever your primary emotion is, but I don't see what would stop it if you were sufficiently determined.

Thank you very much for all this data, Amber, doubly so given your sickness.
[Gives cookie or turtle or whatever it's called today]

[Jim Halisstrad]

I concur.

The obvious solution is to stop being sick.

(Kidding, hope you get better soon)

[Amber Williams]

Wouldn't that mean that in theory you could bootstrap yourself from 'cubi to tri-wing without eating a single soul?  That would probably mean spending 10'000 years or more in a permanent state of rage or fear or whatever your primary emotion is, but I don't see what would stop it if you were sufficiently determined.

While it isn't impossible (I mean...this is DMFA we're talking about and nothing is ever impossible), its not nearly as easy a system as you just described.  As of this time, there has never been a case where a Cubi has reached tri-wing via the means just described.   While it is a 3-1 "energy" ratio...the older you get the more energy you inevitably rely on until you do eventually spend all your emotional energy just fighting age.   The process I described tends to be only cases of a few hundred years...not in the thousands.

You also have to consider the higher-possibility you might go literally batshit insane from the process of only a hundred or so years of solitude. (There is a reason the walled Cubi example is a rage-based one.)

[Tapewolf]

While it isn't impossible (I mean...this is DMFA we're talking about and nothing is ever impossible), its not nearly as easy a system as you just described.  As of this time, there has never been a case where a Cubi has reached tri-wing via the means just described.

Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost mythical...

While it is a 3-1 "energy" ratio...the older you get the more energy you inevitably rely on until you do eventually spend all your emotional energy just fighting age.   The process I described tends to be only cases of a few hundred years...not in the thousands.

I'd be curious to know what Fa'Lina and Destania have been eating all these millennia, but that's a question for another day - and for all I know it'll be explained in-strip anyway.

You also have to consider the higher-possibility you might go literally batshit insane from the process of only a hundred or so years of solitude. (There is a reason the walled Cubi example is a rage-based one.)

Quite.  For the tri-wing it would be a sort of monomania, and there's no guarantee they'd snap out of it once they'd reached tri-wing.

[Amber Williams]

Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost mythical...

(Warning: Slightly doped up response, proceed with caution)
I don't have the actual number with me...but since the time Cubi first came about, there have been less than 200 tri-winged.  Part of me is wanting to say less than 100 but druuuuugs... @_o

I will say though that 2-3 were brought about by means that involved no soul-snatchering.

Quite.  For the tri-wing it would be a sort of monomania, and there's no guarantee they'd snap out of it once they'd reached tri-wing.

Well...it could be said that for every success for tri-winged...there have been at least a dozen failures.  And not the type of failure that results in a complimentary "good try" ribbon. 

[Tapewolf]

Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost mythical...

(Warning: Slightly doped up response, proceed with caution)
I don't have the actual number with me...but since the time Cubi first came about, there have been less than 200 tri-winged.  Part of me is wanting to say less than 100 but druuuuugs... @_o

I will say though that 2-3 were brought about by means that involved no soul-snatchering.

[dithers between asking more questions while Amber is in the mood - possibly because she's spaced out on amphetamines or whatever - and telling her to get the hell back to bed, which would be more virtuous but less satisfying]

Okay, one more question then I'll shut up... how rare are 'Cubi?  Or to put it another way, roughly how many 'cubi are there in Furrae at the present time?  Thousands?  Millions?

[Vidar]

While all this talk about cubi is very interesting and all, I'd like to point out that Amber Panyko Williams needs her rest in order to get well soon.

So, Amber, grab a book, go back to bed and stay there until better. Have your hubby bring you some soup and such, and don't  exert yourself.  That means no pushing yourself into doing an Abel's story comic. </nanny>

I hope your insides stop messing about soon.

[Amber Williams]

At present time?  There are probably less than 30,000 Cubi in the world of Furrae.  Bonus Fact: Of all the clans remaining, only 8 of them have tri-winged founders still alive.  Super-Bonus Fact: Of all the tri-winged founders, only one of them has been around since the beginnings of the Cubi race. 


The reason why I'm still awake?  Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry!

[Kasarn]

Relatedly...

"Last I checked there were 13 tri-winged Cubi left in Furrae"
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum3469.htm#ref74
So I take it that 5 of them haven't founded a clan of their own? Or did you just change your mind?

"The oldest still living Cubi is around 100,000 years old."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2962.htm#ref7
So he's a clan founder? No surprise there...

"They [tri-winged Cubi] are the most powerful variation of Cubi sans the four Cubi Gods."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1863.htm#ref4

[Amber Williams]

Relatedly...

"Last I checked there were 13 tri-winged Cubi left in Furrae"
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum3469.htm#ref74
So I take it that 5 of them haven't founded a clan of their own? Or did you just change your mind?

"The oldest still living Cubi is around 100,000 years old."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2962.htm#ref7
So he's a clan founder? No surprise there...

"They [tri-winged Cubi] are the most powerful variation of Cubi sans the four Cubi Gods."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1863.htm#ref4

shhh...the answer to your question is hidden amongst your post... 

[Kasarn]

It's an anagram, isn't it?

SQTRXEOIDXTGAHHEDAETAXHGHANAXBEYRGIEOTAFMQSRAEQCANAHLAHQRS
EORNHQNEAGXXYFGOTQEUXQNNQAOEXRPCAIAASAAIHNNADSQMMURAALRRQX

edit: the forum adds a space... it's from Neopets A Tale of Woe

[Arcalane]

The reason why I'm still awake?  Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry!

Try tomato soup. I find that helps me cheer up a bit if I'm feeling unwell.

[Tapewolf]

At present time?  There are probably less than 30,000 Cubi in the world of Furrae.  Bonus Fact: Of all the clans remaining, only 8 of them have tri-winged founders still alive.  Super-Bonus Fact: Of all the tri-winged founders, only one of them has been around since the beginnings of the Cubi race. 
The reason why I'm still awake?  Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry!

That's much appreciated.  Now get to bed and get well.  I was very surprised to see a comic today, and I don't think anyone will object if there isn't an Abel's Story tomorrow

[Reese Tora]

I would guess that 'cubi use magic (an invisible, inexhaustible, omnipresent energy source external to a creature) to metabolize raw emotion into the energy thier bodies can use.  Then a self feeding cubi would be more analogous to a hydrogen powered car.  Raw emotion that feeds the 'cubi is like water, and the cubi burns uses magic(energy) to turn emotion(water) into whatever mysterious thing it is that is life(hydrogen)

I can deal with that explanation.  Except, of course, that hydrogen cars don't work like that.  If you want to say that there's some luminiferous aether that carries magic, and that's the source of energy, that's fine.

Well, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be.  The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.

[superluser]

Er... what does Maxwell's Demon have to do with Maxwell's equations at all? The former is an issue of thermodynamics (well, statistical mechanics) and the latter is electromagnetics.

Argh.  You are right.  The resolution of the problem has deep consequences for Maxwell's Equations, though.  Since the electromagnetic force carrier is the photon, and you can't tell how energetic a particle is without the emission of a photon, the rules that govern both fields are found in quantum electrodynamics.

(electromagnetics was never my strong suit.  I think if I knew enough vector mathematics to understand the differential form of Maxwell's equations, it would be different)

Well, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be.  The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.

No, water is a byproduct of the reaction, not a reagent.  You also wouldn't perform electrolysis inside a car, for a number of logistical reasons, but I won't get into that.

[Mavus]

Where do you get the idea that emotions don't take energy?  I know that after I'm done being angry for some reason I'm exausted.  It doesn't burn many calories but it does take energy to sustain an emotion for long.  So thus if it takes energy to be angry it must put off some energy for something or someone to feed off of.  And the more intense the emotion is the more exhausted you are afterwards.  Thus I can see why the a cubi would go in for terrorizing somebody for a good meal.

[EvilIguana966]

The physical laws of our universe state that you cannot create or destroy matter or energy.  DMFA takes place in a fantasy world with a lot of basic physical laws in common with our own, but where magic can alter some of those laws.  Generally I assume that in a fantasy world, when something is seemingly being created from nothing, what is actually happening is an exchange to which we are only privy the specifics of one side.  A wizard that conjures fireballs can do so because he is tapping into some existing energy source, trading something of his own for the privilege.  The beauty of fantasy is that we can give real value to abstract things if we so please.  Perhaps the exchange is some karmic equation rather than physical. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The exhaustion you feel is the after-effects of adrenaline.

The byproducts of adrenaline processing cause your muscles to react in a way that feels like exhaustion, or so I understand. And being angry causes adrenaline production, so...


That's not to say you're not exhausted as well - it's a complex process. But being angry, your muscles all tense up, right? When you stop, they relax, but you've been burning energy in keeping them tense.



But, as Amber said, Cubi are magical creatures, and hence the normal rules we have in RL don't work. Yay. Next subject? :-)

[Reese Tora]

Well, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be.  The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.

No, water is a byproduct of the reaction, not a reagent.  You also wouldn't perform electrolysis inside a car, for a number of logistical reasons, but I won't get into that.

See, I don't see where you're getting water as a reagent from what I said.  Energy is added to water, and you get hydrogen and oxygen, which is storing the energy, hydrogen is 'burned' with oxygen to release the energy and produces water as a by product.  You could close the system (except for introducing energy to split the water and removing it at the point the hydrogen is burned)

I am saying that emotions are a raw material like water that is treated by cubi magic to become the power/body/what have you of the cubi, with magic being introduced to the system in teh same was as energy in the form of electricity is introduced to the system that is a hydrogen power source combined with a hydrogen production plant.It's not a perfect anology(no extra water is created beyond what already existed, unlike feed-back 'cubi's extra emotions), but I do not think you are reading what I am trying to say.