Two things I've been wondering: First, how much total in comic time has passed since the comic started?
Second: So in SAIA, no one needs to eat or sleep or whatever because they feed off of each other's emotions.
Where's the energy coming from? ie, if A is feeding off of B and C, but B is feeding off of A and C, and C is feeding off of A and B... + some will still be radiated or otherwise unfed on at all and lost... So where's it actually coming from? Or is energy not conserved at all with emotions? And if so, why can't a Cubi just feed of of their own emotions and such?
Am I overanalyzing this? Yes.
Do I enjoy overanalyzing things like this? Hell yeah! ;)
First...well, I dunno.
Second, emotions are less molecular formulas and more of trees creating oxygen from carbon dioxide. Our emotions are not as physical as atoms (unless you're talking about them as in chemicals. Emotions, as far as I know, aren't really energy.
Why can't Cubi feed off themselves? I'd imagine it would be much like a sandwich trying to eat itself: oddly hilarious but impossible.
The feeding of emotions is a simple one, as it is a natural byproduct of all sentient creatures, so there is no harm and a near limitless supply as long as there are creatures around. It's kind of like waterwheel, the water is there, so why not get a little something out of it while it is passing down the river?
*blinks* either I'm misunderstanding the two of you, or you both misunderstood me, or both of those options.
I meant this: In the comic, emotions are implied to be, or at least associated with, some amount of energy.
So some being or creature experiencing an emotion is emitting the associated energy.
That energy is coming from somewhere. Perhaps it was converted from what was previously chemical energy in food.
Now, what happens when something, say a cubi, feeds on another's emotional energy.
let C be the Cubi, B be the being (or whatever) that is being fed on.
Model #1:
B munches food. Body processes this, extracts chemical energy, etc etc. Later, B experiences some emotion. Some of the previously stored chemical energy get used to "power" the emotion, producing some form of emotional/magical/whatever exactly it is energy that C then munches on.
Model #2: B experiences an emotion. Somehow in this process, new energy is created (ie, energy is not concerved in this process)... C feeds on previously mentioned energy.
Now. Let C1 and C2 both be Cubi. now what?
Via model #1, both may eat some food, experience emotions, then feed off of each other's emotions.
If they eat nothing, then eventually they will deplete their stores of energy. (ie, their internal reserves fat, carbs, magical energy, whatever)...
So model #1 can't reflect the reality in the comic, because in SAIA they're all feeding off each other as a primary energy source, and don't really eat much food at all.
Model #2 would be potentially consistent, except it does seem odd that they wouldn't then be able to feed at all off of themselves. Whatever part of them is responsible for recieving/absorbing emotional energy would somehow have to completely dodge the energy they're emitting.
So neither model #1 nor model #2 are satisfactory representations of what's going on in the DMFA universe.
Emotions as energy takes a leap to a belief in Magickal energy.
The brains gives off various waves and energy patterns, as well as the body (specific gravity and a small magnetic field).
Now If you believe in magic and all that (without getting into TOO much detail) everyone has an Aura... the aura is like an energy field. Emotions can change this energy field.
Have you ever been in a room and then suddenly the whole room felt.... angry? like as soon as a pissed of friend entered the room, the "atmosphere" of the room changes to adjust to the new wave of anger that just walked in.
now if you think only by scientific logic and cannot suspend belief, or think outside the box, or be open-minded, this concept is a bit harder to grasp.
But I believe this is the basic idea.
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 12:08:27 AMWhere's the energy coming from? ie, if A is feeding off of B and C, but B is feeding off of A and C, and C is feeding off of A and B... + some will still be radiated or otherwise unfed on at all and lost...
OK. I'm about to blow your mind. Look at that quote. Where does it say anything about the source or type of food? That argument could just as easily be applied to eating emotions as it could to eating meat or vegetables.
Where is the energy coming from? The sun. Plants convert the sun's energy into edible vegetable matter. Herbivores eat the vegetables, carnivores eat the herbivores, and `cubi eat the emotions that the carnivores and herbivores give off when eating their food.
Of course, you might be talking about where the energy is coming from in SAIA, but a few `cubi still eat (possibly because they need someone to, or else they'll all starve).
The sun also causes inflation. Bet you thought it was Ben Bernanke.
Edit:
Quote from: fesworks on February 23, 2007, 12:37:49 AMThe brains gives off various waves and energy patterns, as well as the body (specific gravity and a small magnetic field).
Specific gravity is a metric for measuring relative density. That's not the term you're looking for.
We've seen a few non-Cubi at SAIA. I'd guess that various visitors and volunteers provide the balance.
SAIA's isolation would also make it a good prison. If it is, then that'd be another source.
There has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
Emotion isn't the same kind of energy that normal energy is. It doesn't come from a hamburger, it can't be stored. In otherwords, your theory is going wrong because you assume that the emotional energy has to come from some form of reserve. A better example would likely be comparing emotions to sunlight and the Cubi having a form of photosynthesis that enables them to create their own energy from it.
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 12:38:56 AM
Where is the energy coming from? The sun. Plants convert the sun's energy into edible vegetable matter. Herbivores eat the vegetables, carnivores eat the herbivores, and `cubi eat the emotions that the carnivores and herbivores give off when eating their food.
Who were you responding to? Because I think I was actually making that point? (Or did I misunderstand what you meant?)
QuoteOf course, you might be talking about where the energy is coming from in SAIA, but a few `cubi still eat (possibly because they need someone to, or else they'll all starve).
Yeah, I was talking about SAIA. And as I understood it, what the cubi do eat isn't enough even for themselves, it's just a food they happen to like, so eat it occasionally, but nutrition wise, they wouldn't be taking in enough for themselves, much less enough to distrubute the energy to the school population.
QuoteThe sun also causes inflation. Bet you thought it was Ben Bernanke.
*looks up the name* okay... so how does the sun cause economic inflation? :)
The way I see it is like this: emotions are like ideas. Do you need nutrients to get ideas? Then it's something from nothing. By that logic, however flawed, you can also expect emotions (thoughts and such. I won't bother getting too deep into the chemical balances because it's too much science for a comic) to be gained from nothing.
Before anything else... Why're you here dealing with my overly nitpicky considerations instead of resting and desickifying? De-sicku, _then_ deal with nitpicky fans. :D
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 12:43:23 AM
There has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
Aaaah, so they can feed on their own emotions. So model #2 is potentially satisfactory.
QuoteEmotion isn't the same kind of energy that normal energy is. It doesn't come from a hamburger, it can't be stored. In otherwords, your theory is going wrong because you assume that the emotional energy has to come from some form of reserve. A better example would likely be comparing emotions to sunlight and the Cubi having a form of photosynthesis that enables them to create their own energy from it.
Unclear what you're saying here. Are you saying that when a being or creature experiences an emotion and spews out emotional/magical energy, the energy is not coming from within, but instead the emotion is "pulling in"/filtering/whatever energy from some other source? (some all pervading magical field/zero point energy/whatever?)
Or did you mean something entirely different?
Quote from: HeroZero on February 23, 2007, 12:55:56 AM
The way I see it is like this: emotions are like ideas. Do you need nutrients to get ideas? Then it's something from nothing. By that logic, however flawed, you can also expect emotions (thoughts and such. I won't bother getting too deep into the chemical balances because it's too much science for a comic) to be gained from nothing.
Yes, we can consider emotions more as just information patterns and stuff. But in the DMFA universe, they apparently are associated somehow with sufficient energy as to give races like Cubi something to feed on.
(Interestingly enough, there is a physics principle which shows that erasing information does actually have a minumum energy cost. (Specifically, to totally erase N bits of information from a system, so that no aspect of the system retains that information, requires k*T*ln(2)*N amount of energy, where k is boltzman's constant and T is the temperature (on an absolute scale) of the surrounding environment. (yes, this is a really really miniscule amount of energy though)))
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 12:43:23 AMThere has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
So I guess Psy-Kosh is right. There is no conservation of energy. I'm going to build a perpetual motion machine out of `cubi and make millions!
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 01:08:20 AM
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 12:43:23 AMThere has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
So I guess Psy-Kosh is right. There is no conservation of energy. I'm going to build a perpetual motion machine out of `cubi and make millions!
Hey, I was trying to work perpetual motion into a joke :<
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 12:43:23 AM
There has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
Oh, just had another thought... Is that the hidden secret origin of The Incredible Hulk? ("you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...")
Keep in mind the walled Cubi example is very rare...and takes generally a very strong will to pull it off. The average Cubi would waste away quite easily...but if there is a lesson to be learned...never underestimate willpower and the sheer determination of an individual. An easier example would likely be two Cubi married to eachother who play off eachothers emotional favorites to substain eachother. It's not uncommon for particular emotion-types to hook up due to compatability.
Anyways, I'm here because I want to be. So thppth! :V
I'm saying you are trying too hard to come up with a source. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, a fantasy comic is just a fantasy comic, and a race of creatures that can live off emotions is just a race of creatures that can live off emotions. And that you trying to pin down a logical explanation for it will only result in heartbreak and disapointment.
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 01:08:20 AMSo I guess Psy-Kosh is right. There is no conservation of energy. I'm going to build a perpetual motion machine out of `cubi and make millions!
Wait... let's make it a doubly perpetual.
Start with a feline cubi.
Glue a bunch of pieces of toast onto its back. Butter the exposed sides of toast. This, of course, produces the classic cat-toast reaction, resulting in it levitating and spinning. (Similar to the meisner effect)
Now, while spinning, the cubi will be generating emotions of distress/dizzyness/nausea/etc.. Perhaps automatically feeding on them, so the whole thing amplifies.
Now, set things up right and get a bit of that energy into the rotation.
Connect to generator.
:)
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 01:15:55 AM
Keep in mind the walled Cubi example is very rare...and takes generally a very strong will to pull it off. The average Cubi would waste away quite easily...but if there is a lesson to be learned...never underestimate willpower and the sheer determination of an individual. An easier example would likely be two Cubi married to eachother who play off eachothers emotional favorites to substain eachother. It's not uncommon for particular emotion-types to hook up due to compatability.
How long have Cubi been around? I mean, if the basics of this ability was there, wouldn't eventually those that could do it easily be selected for? (I know they're "relatively recent", but not sure just how recent that is)
QuoteAnyways, I'm here because I want to be. So thppth! :V
"incoming thpppth! raise thpppth shields!"
QuoteI'm saying you are trying too hard to come up with a source. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, a fantasy comic is just a fantasy comic, and a race of creatures that can live off emotions is just a race of creatures that can live off emotions. And that you trying to pin down a logical explanation for it will only result in heartbreak and disapointment.
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 12:08:27 AM
Am I overanalyzing this? Yes.
Do I enjoy overanalyzing things like this? Hell yeah! ;)
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 01:23:14 AM
How long have Cubi been around? I mean, if the basics of this ability was there, wouldn't eventually those that could do it easily be selected for? (I know they're "relatively recent", but not sure just how recent that is)
I think...(and please note all you wikians...I am kinda drugged out at the time so don't hold me to this)...Cubi have existed for around 100,000 years. They're about the 5th youngest race...no wait...4th...they'd have been 5th if it wasn't for that one event around 9,000 years ago... :giggle
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 01:29:47 AM
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 01:23:14 AM
How long have Cubi been around? I mean, if the basics of this ability was there, wouldn't eventually those that could do it easily be selected for? (I know they're "relatively recent", but not sure just how recent that is)
I think...(and please note all you wikians...I am kinda drugged out at the time so don't hold me to this)...Cubi have existed for around 100,000 years. They're about the 5th youngest race...no wait...4th...they'd have been 5th if it wasn't for that one event around 9,000 years ago... :giggle
You are ebil! :)
Aaanyways, isn't that roughly the time that modern humans are estimated to have existed? And afaik, there has been evolutionary "fine tuning" even in that time.
Oh, what about my simpler question? How much "in comic" time has passed between the start of the comic and now (#752 in case this thread ever gets looked at in the future)
Thankies. :)
And again, go and get better!
I'd say roughly about 6 months. Less than a year, but more than a few months have passed.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 01:49:27 AM
I'd say roughly about 6 months. Less than a year, but more than a few months have passed.
Okiedokie, thanks. (Just been wondering that)
Oh, and just since the comment under your image said to... let's see, from memory...
*Sings* "take one step, and then again, comeon it's time to go do the mario... swing your arms, from side to side..."
So what you're saying is that their power level is always OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(Is interested in learning facts. To tired to make since cents scents be coherent.
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on February 23, 2007, 02:08:28 AM
So what you're saying is that their power level is always OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*blinkblink* huh?
Wait... am I mixing things up or have you (Amber) said that there used to be humans in the DMFAverse but they dissapeared.
If so, I wonder if I should wonder if that dissapearence is related to the previously mentioned cryptic "that one event around 9,000 years ago"
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 02:13:46 AM
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on February 23, 2007, 02:08:28 AM
So what you're saying is that their power level is always OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*blinkblink* huh?
Jyrras, what does the scouter say about Abel's power level?
IT'S OVER NINE THOUSAND!!! <3 <3 <3
Also, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBtpyeLxVkI
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 01:15:55 AMKeep in mind the walled Cubi example is very rare...and takes generally a very strong will to pull it off. The average Cubi would waste away quite easily...but if there is a lesson to be learned...never underestimate willpower and the sheer determination of an individual. An easier example would likely be two Cubi married to eachother who play off eachothers emotional favorites to substain eachother. It's not uncommon for particular emotion-types to hook up due to compatability.
This is not good. I'm going to explain this with as few equations as possible, so that I don't kill any catgirls.
Let us assume that the walled `cubi are warm-blooded, and that the surrounding environment is lower than their body temperature. Let us further assume that the walls and the `cubi are not perfect insulators. What this necessarily means is that they are radiating heat, which they cannot reclaim. Let's say that they give off 2000 kilocalories per day in heat (that's the USRDA). In 100 years, that would be 73 million kilocalories, or 73 tons of TNT.
So that means that the `cubi would have to have 73 tons of TNT stored away in their bodies. But you say that emotional energy can't be stored. The only other option is that somehow, they are recycling 73 tons of TNT continuously. That strains credulity.
I mean, seriously. ``A wizard did it'' would be fine. Or ``they gain residual amounts from the emotional background radiation.'' Or ``They get that energy from divine intervention.''
I can accept that there's no physics, but partial/bad physics makes me cry. :cry
(psst. Maybe you ought to focus on getting well and not on answering our dumb questions when you're under the influence of mind-altering chemicals)
Much as I hate to jump into a debate with an overused cliche, I have got to say this.
It's magic. :3
Creatures, most of them, have abilities (and I'm sure I will be corrected, if I'm wrong) that are essentially magic. Magic, does it come from somewhere? probably. Where does it come from? Probably only Falina and Amber know for sure.
I would guess that 'cubi use magic (an invisible, inexhaustible, omnipresent energy source external to a creature) to metabolize raw emotion into the energy thier bodies can use. Then a self feeding cubi would be more analogous to a hydrogen powered car. Raw emotion that feeds the 'cubi is like water, and the cubi burns uses magic(energy) to turn emotion(water) into whatever mysterious thing it is that is life(hydrogen)
That, of course, is assuming that cubi are in any way concerned by the laws of thermodynamics. :P
Quote from: Reese Tora on February 23, 2007, 02:45:11 AM
That, of course, is assuming that cubi are in any way concerned by the laws of thermodynamics. :P
Obviously demons are concerned (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=346), and cubi are +10 sexy.
When Cubi reach a particular level, they don't need to even take in oxygen to breathe. It's hard to put a creature who's physics are completly unnatural into natural terms. And that isn't even attempting to tack on the magical physics which always put a monkey wrench into logical understandings. At best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage). They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion. Repeat cycle. And as I said, this is a rare case example. Not the norm in any sense. It takes an insane amount of discipline and determination to pull it off...and it likely would help if they were powerful to begin with.
As for my 9,000 comment, I wouldn't think too much about applying humans to the scenario. While beings in DMFA have a similar setup as humans in our world do, they aren't running completly parrallel to our society and a few people have tripped over things not lining up perfectly.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 02:53:49 AM
When Cubi reach a particular level, they don't need to even take in oxygen to breathe. It's hard to put a creature who's physics are completly unnatural into natural terms. And that isn't even attempting to tack on the magical physics which always put a monkey wrench into logical understandings. At best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage). They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion. Repeat cycle. And as I said, this is a rare case example. Not the norm in any sense. It takes an insane amount of discipline and determination to pull it off...and it likely would help if they were powerful to begin with.
Hrm... if they mainly feed on magical energy... Why need oxygen at all? (unless they store the energy in chemical form)
I mean, isn't oxygen mainly just something that lets us process glucose and stuff much more efficiently?
QuoteAs for my 9,000 comment, I wouldn't think too much about applying humans to the scenario. While beings in DMFA have a similar setup as humans in our world do, they aren't running completly parallel to our society and a few people have tripped over things not lining up perfectly.
I didn't say it was parallel. Sorry, maybe I was unclear. All I mean was is "hrmm... didn't Amber once say that humans used to exist in that world then dissapeared? And now some event 9,000 years in the past made a race dissapear in the dmfa world... ergo perhaps those two things are related?"
Quote from: Reese Tora on February 23, 2007, 02:45:11 AMI would guess that 'cubi use magic (an invisible, inexhaustible, omnipresent energy source external to a creature) to metabolize raw emotion into the energy thier bodies can use. Then a self feeding cubi would be more analogous to a hydrogen powered car. Raw emotion that feeds the 'cubi is like water, and the cubi burns uses magic(energy) to turn emotion(water) into whatever mysterious thing it is that is life(hydrogen)
I can deal with that explanation. Except, of course, that hydrogen cars don't work like that. If you want to say that there's some luminiferous aether that carries magic, and that's the source of energy, that's fine.
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on February 23, 2007, 02:48:57 AMObviously demons do (http://www.machall.com/index.php?strip_id=346), and cubi are +10 sexy.
Well, Maxwell's Demon actually *doesn't* obey the laws of thermodynamics. It also cannot exist, as it was based on the pre-quantum understanding of Maxwell's equations.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 02:53:49 AMAt best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage). They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion.
But where do the other two points of energy come from? The can't come from the `cubi, because they don't have that energy, yet.
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 03:03:04 AMI mean, isn't oxygen mainly just something that lets us process glucose and stuff much more efficiently?
I don't remember the Krebs cycle. At all. But I'm pretty sure that there are several points at which O2 is necessary for the thing to function at all, not just efficiently.
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 03:12:09 AM
But where do the other two points of energy come from? The can't come from the `cubi, because they don't have that energy, yet.
Maybe faith in some higher power, maybe determination undiscovered, I can't explain all the physics in the world much like people can't explain miracles in our own. That's why they are rare and miraculous scenarios rather than a common everday occurance. Offhand it is like hearing about in our world someone who survived six shots to the head and came out without any major permanent damage.
I really try to stress the
rare factor here since people have a tendency to assume that a lot of things are standard norm. And even then me saying higher power is a BS reason cause in the case of DMFA, no one is sure how it works out because it is so unheard of. Sometimes your only option is faith or stretching science.
Well it seems nice to milk the knowalge from the goddess who has a slight case of ADD yet evil to boot
Since Amber seems to be dealing out the information, here is the main question that everyone is thinking: Where do they get the know how for such Rad fashion statements? Hey, look at able before he knew he was a cubi, it's all instinct baby. The sheer style is almost unhandable.
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on February 23, 2007, 03:20:02 AM
Since Amber seems to be dealing out the information, here is the main question that everyone is thinking: Where do they get the know how for such Rad fashion statements? Hey, look at able before he knew he was a cubi, it's all instinct baby. The sheer style is almost unhandable.
Few people realize this, but fashion is actually a seventh sense. Cubi have heightened fashion senses from birth. :U
Yay for good looking when born..Specialy when your nine minutes old!
Cubi bebes are some of the cutest bebes around. :P
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 03:12:09 AM
Well, Maxwell's Demon actually *doesn't* obey the laws of thermodynamics. It also cannot exist, as it was based on the pre-quantum understanding of Maxwell's equations.
Er... what does Maxwell's Demon have to do with Maxwell's equations at all? The former is an issue of thermodynamics (well, statistical mechanics) and the latter is electromagnetics.
QuoteI don't remember the Krebs cycle. At all. But I'm pretty sure that there are several points at which O2 is necessary for the thing to function at all, not just efficiently.
I meant the benefit of the cycle is efficiency... and it's still just for processing.. glucose, right?
ie, if your energy source is something entirely different, then what're you doing with the oxygen?
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 03:44:10 AM
ie, if your energy source is something entirely different, then what're you doing with the oxygen?
Well be sure to keep in mind that you don't get all the Cubi boons right off the bat...and you do spend at least 20-25 years with the same physics as most normal beings. It's just once you hit a certain level you start to evolve and begin to be more magical-based than biology-based. Sleep is usually the first to go, followed by food, then water, breathing tends to go out last, but even then most still do it out of habit and because it makes talking a whole lot easier. But that is a process that takes hundreds of years if not a thousand. (it really depends on how you go about it and what your priorities are)
If you want an example, I'll say now that Dan is at a point where sleep is slowly becomming optional...where as Abel has bypassed sleep/food/water and can go without breathing for a few hours at a time.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 03:43:48 AM
Cubi bebes are some of the cutest bebes around. :P
What about Insectis babies? :<
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 12:43:23 AM
There has been a couple cases where adventurers have tried walling up a Cubi in expectations of it starving to death only for hundreds of years later unwitting adventurers unearthing a severly pissed on who happened to have the option to feed on its own rage. It's not the most common thing granted, but it is possible.
Emotion isn't the same kind of energy that normal energy is. It doesn't come from a hamburger, it can't be stored. In otherwords, your theory is going wrong because you assume that the emotional energy has to come from some form of reserve. A better example would likely be comparing emotions to sunlight and the Cubi having a form of photosynthesis that enables them to create their own energy from it.
So what you're basically saying here is that 'Cubi use emotional energy to crack/metabolise magical energy present in the universe? Sounds good to me.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 02:53:49 AM
When Cubi reach a particular level, they don't need to even take in oxygen to breathe. It's hard to put a creature who's physics are completly unnatural into natural terms. And that isn't even attempting to tack on the magical physics which always put a monkey wrench into logical understandings.
So they do gradually transition from a conventional metabolism to a magical one... that's been my assumption, but it's nice to see it confirmed :)
QuoteAt best I can say that said Cubi exerts 1 point of energy, including that of a particular emotion(for walled case, lets say rage). They gain supposed 3 energy from said rage back via their particular affinity for that emotion. Repeat cycle. And as I said, this is a rare case example. Not the norm in any sense. It takes an insane amount of discipline and determination to pull it off...and it likely would help if they were powerful to begin with.
Wouldn't that mean that in theory you could bootstrap yourself from 'cubi to tri-wing without eating a single soul? That would probably mean spending 10'000 years or more in a permanent state of rage or fear or whatever your primary emotion is, but I don't see what would stop it if you were sufficiently determined.
Thank you
very much for all this data, Amber, doubly so given your sickness.
[Gives cookie or turtle or whatever it's called today]
I concur.
The obvious solution is to stop being sick.
(Kidding, hope you get better soon)
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 23, 2007, 04:15:54 AM
Wouldn't that mean that in theory you could bootstrap yourself from 'cubi to tri-wing without eating a single soul? That would probably mean spending 10'000 years or more in a permanent state of rage or fear or whatever your primary emotion is, but I don't see what would stop it if you were sufficiently determined.
While it isn't impossible (I mean...this is DMFA we're talking about and nothing is ever
impossible), its not nearly as easy a system as you just described. As of this time, there has never been a case where a Cubi has reached tri-wing via the means just described. While it is a 3-1 "energy" ratio...the older you get the more energy you inevitably rely on until you do eventually spend all your emotional energy just fighting age. The process I described tends to be only cases of a few hundred years...not in the thousands.
You also have to consider the higher-possibility you might go literally batshit insane from the process of only a hundred or so years of solitude. (There is a reason the walled Cubi example is a rage-based one.)
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 04:30:14 AM
While it isn't impossible (I mean...this is DMFA we're talking about and nothing is ever impossible), its not nearly as easy a system as you just described. As of this time, there has never been a case where a Cubi has reached tri-wing via the means just described.
Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost
mythical...
QuoteWhile it is a 3-1 "energy" ratio...the older you get the more energy you inevitably rely on until you do eventually spend all your emotional energy just fighting age. The process I described tends to be only cases of a few hundred years...not in the thousands.
I'd be curious to know what Fa'Lina and Destania have been eating all these millennia, but that's a question for another day - and for all I know it'll be explained in-strip anyway.
QuoteYou also have to consider the higher-possibility you might go literally batshit insane from the process of only a hundred or so years of solitude. (There is a reason the walled Cubi example is a rage-based one.)
Quite. For the tri-wing it would be a sort of monomania, and there's no guarantee they'd snap out of it once they'd reached tri-wing.
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 23, 2007, 04:38:13 AM
Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost mythical...
(Warning: Slightly doped up response, proceed with caution)
I don't have the actual number with me...but since the time Cubi first came about, there have been less than 200 tri-winged. Part of me is wanting to say less than 100 but druuuuugs... @_o
I will say though that 2-3 were brought about by means that involved no soul-snatchering.
QuoteQuite. For the tri-wing it would be a sort of monomania, and there's no guarantee they'd snap out of it once they'd reached tri-wing.
Well...it could be said that for every success for tri-winged...there have been at least a dozen failures. And not the type of failure that results in a complimentary "good try" ribbon. :U
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 04:47:31 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on February 23, 2007, 04:38:13 AM
Indeed no - if it was easy there'd be tri-wings everywhere, and they're supposed to be almost mythical...
(Warning: Slightly doped up response, proceed with caution)
I don't have the actual number with me...but since the time Cubi first came about, there have been less than 200 tri-winged. Part of me is wanting to say less than 100 but druuuuugs... @_o
I will say though that 2-3 were brought about by means that involved no soul-snatchering.
[dithers between asking more questions while Amber is in the mood - possibly because she's spaced out on amphetamines or whatever - and telling her to get the hell back to bed, which would be more virtuous but less satisfying]
Okay, one more question then I'll shut up... how rare are 'Cubi? Or to put it another way, roughly how many 'cubi are there in Furrae at the present time? Thousands? Millions?
While all this talk about cubi is very interesting and all, I'd like to point out that Amber Panyko Williams needs her rest in order to get well soon.
So, Amber, grab a book, go back to bed and stay there until better. Have your hubby bring you some soup and such, and don't exert yourself. That means no pushing yourself into doing an Abel's story comic. </nanny>
I hope your insides stop messing about soon.
At present time? There are probably less than 30,000 Cubi in the world of Furrae. Bonus Fact: Of all the clans remaining, only 8 of them have tri-winged founders still alive. Super-Bonus Fact: Of all the tri-winged founders, only one of them has been around since the beginnings of the Cubi race.
The reason why I'm still awake? Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry! :<
Relatedly...
"Last I checked there were 13 tri-winged Cubi left in Furrae"
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum3469.htm#ref74
So I take it that 5 of them haven't founded a clan of their own? Or did you just change your mind?
"The oldest still living Cubi is around 100,000 years old."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2962.htm#ref7
So he's a clan founder? No surprise there...
"They [tri-winged Cubi] are the most powerful variation of Cubi sans the four Cubi Gods."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1863.htm#ref4
:O
Quote from: Kasarn on February 23, 2007, 05:40:30 AM
Relatedly...
"Last I checked there were 13 tri-winged Cubi left in Furrae"
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum3469.htm#ref74
So I take it that 5 of them haven't founded a clan of their own? Or did you just change your mind?
"The oldest still living Cubi is around 100,000 years old."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum2962.htm#ref7
So he's a clan founder? No surprise there...
"They [tri-winged Cubi] are the most powerful variation of Cubi sans the four Cubi Gods."
http://nice.llearch.net/dmfa_forum1863.htm#ref4
:O
shhh...the answer to your question is hidden amongst your post... :giggle
It's an anagram, isn't it? :<
SQTRXEOIDXTGAHHEDAETAXHGHANAXBEYRGIEOTAFMQSRAEQCANAHLAHQRS
EORNHQNEAGXXYFGOTQEUXQNNQAOEXRPCAIAASAAIHNNADSQMMURAALRRQX
edit: the forum adds a space... it's from Neopets A Tale of Woe
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 05:25:57 AMThe reason why I'm still awake? Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry! :<
Try tomato soup. I find that helps me cheer up a bit if I'm feeling unwell. :)
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 05:25:57 AM
At present time? There are probably less than 30,000 Cubi in the world of Furrae. Bonus Fact: Of all the clans remaining, only 8 of them have tri-winged founders still alive. Super-Bonus Fact: Of all the tri-winged founders, only one of them has been around since the beginnings of the Cubi race.
The reason why I'm still awake? Mason is making sooooup and I'm huuungry! :<
That's much appreciated. Now get to bed and get well. I was very surprised to see a comic today, and I don't think anyone will object if there isn't an Abel's Story tomorrow :P
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 03:12:09 AM
Quote from: Reese Tora on February 23, 2007, 02:45:11 AMI would guess that 'cubi use magic (an invisible, inexhaustible, omnipresent energy source external to a creature) to metabolize raw emotion into the energy thier bodies can use. Then a self feeding cubi would be more analogous to a hydrogen powered car. Raw emotion that feeds the 'cubi is like water, and the cubi burns uses magic(energy) to turn emotion(water) into whatever mysterious thing it is that is life(hydrogen)
I can deal with that explanation. Except, of course, that hydrogen cars don't work like that. If you want to say that there's some luminiferous aether that carries magic, and that's the source of energy, that's fine.
Well, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be. The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.
Quote from: Psy-Kosh on February 23, 2007, 03:44:10 AMEr... what does Maxwell's Demon have to do with Maxwell's equations at all? The former is an issue of thermodynamics (well, statistical mechanics) and the latter is electromagnetics.
Argh. You are right. The resolution of the problem has deep consequences for Maxwell's Equations, though. Since the electromagnetic force carrier is the photon, and you can't tell how energetic a particle is without the emission of a photon, the rules that govern both fields are found in quantum electrodynamics.
(electromagnetics was never my strong suit. I think if I knew enough vector mathematics to understand the differential form of Maxwell's equations, it would be different)
Quote from: Reese Tora on February 23, 2007, 12:39:57 PMWell, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be. The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.
No, water is a byproduct of the reaction, not a reagent. You also wouldn't perform electrolysis inside a car, for a number of logistical reasons, but I won't get into that.
Where do you get the idea that emotions don't take energy? I know that after I'm done being angry for some reason I'm exausted. It doesn't burn many calories but it does take energy to sustain an emotion for long. So thus if it takes energy to be angry it must put off some energy for something or someone to feed off of. And the more intense the emotion is the more exhausted you are afterwards. Thus I can see why the a cubi would go in for terrorizing somebody for a good meal.
The physical laws of our universe state that you cannot create or destroy matter or energy. DMFA takes place in a fantasy world with a lot of basic physical laws in common with our own, but where magic can alter some of those laws. Generally I assume that in a fantasy world, when something is seemingly being created from nothing, what is actually happening is an exchange to which we are only privy the specifics of one side. A wizard that conjures fireballs can do so because he is tapping into some existing energy source, trading something of his own for the privilege. The beauty of fantasy is that we can give real value to abstract things if we so please. Perhaps the exchange is some karmic equation rather than physical.
The exhaustion you feel is the after-effects of adrenaline.
The byproducts of adrenaline processing cause your muscles to react in a way that feels like exhaustion, or so I understand. And being angry causes adrenaline production, so...
That's not to say you're not exhausted as well - it's a complex process. But being angry, your muscles all tense up, right? When you stop, they relax, but you've been burning energy in keeping them tense.
But, as Amber said, Cubi are magical creatures, and hence the normal rules we have in RL don't work. Yay. Next subject? :-)
Quote from: superluser on February 23, 2007, 01:13:55 PM
Quote from: Reese Tora on February 23, 2007, 12:39:57 PMWell, if you put a solar generator connected to one of those devices that splits water into hydrogen and oxygen inside, it would be. The only real difference (that I felt not important enough to mention) is that hydrogen cars have the function of converting stuff to fuel performed externally whereas 'cubi have it performed internally.
No, water is a byproduct of the reaction, not a reagent. You also wouldn't perform electrolysis inside a car, for a number of logistical reasons, but I won't get into that.
See, I don't see where you're getting water as a reagent from what I said. Energy is added to water, and you get hydrogen and oxygen, which is storing the energy, hydrogen is 'burned' with oxygen to release the energy and produces water as a by product. You could close the system (except for introducing energy to split the water and removing it at the point the hydrogen is burned)
I am saying that emotions are a raw material like water that is treated by cubi magic to become the power/body/what have you of the cubi, with magic being introduced to the system in teh same was as energy in the form of electricity is introduced to the system that is a hydrogen power source combined with a hydrogen production plant.It's not a perfect anology(no extra water is created beyond what already existed, unlike feed-back 'cubi's extra emotions), but I do not think you are reading what I am trying to say.
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 03:28:41 AM
Quote from: Jim Halisstrad on February 23, 2007, 03:20:02 AM
Since Amber seems to be dealing out the information, here is the main question that everyone is thinking: Where do they get the know how for such Rad fashion statements? Hey, look at able before he knew he was a cubi, it's all instinct baby. The sheer style is almost unhandable.
Few people realize this, but fashion is actually a seventh sense. Cubi have heightened fashion senses from birth. :U
[POUNCE]
CANON :U
(I did the same thing when I saw the infamous "Lex Luthor stole forty cakes" panel.)
Say Amber, What did Jyrras do with the sentient Artificial Intelligence Lifeform he created during the Lab accident? Did He upload it into a cybernetic doppelganger, death ray, mow, warp-aci etcetera ? Did he delete it? Did he incorporate it in the latest furcadian version of windows?
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 04:47:31 AM
Well...it could be said that for every success for tri-winged...there have been at least a dozen failures. And not the type of failure that results in a complimentary "good try" ribbon. :U
I'm tempted to ask how a cubi goes about trying to gain a third set of wings, the risks, and to make it an even three- what happens exactly if there is a 'failure'?
Quote from: RJ on February 23, 2007, 11:04:56 PM
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 04:47:31 AM
Well...it could be said that for every success for tri-winged...there have been at least a dozen failures. And not the type of failure that results in a complimentary "good try" ribbon. :U
I'm tempted to ask how a cubi goes about trying to gain a third set of wings, the risks, and to make it an even three- what happens exactly if there is a 'failure'?
They probably turn into blob cubi :O
I think amber may have opened pandora's box with this thread.
Quote from: RJ on February 23, 2007, 11:04:56 PM
what happens exactly if there is a 'failure'?
(http://missmab.xepher.net/graphics/Yeti.gif)
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: RJ on February 23, 2007, 11:04:56 PM
what happens exactly if there is a 'failure'?
(http://missmab.xepher.net/graphics/Yeti.gif)
So THAT'S why I don't like cubi! D: Those jerks were constantly chasing me, up to 5 at a time, when I was just trying to ski in peace!
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 11:30:11 PM
(http://missmab.xepher.net/graphics/Yeti.gif)
HOLY CRAP! I almost forgot about that game! that Game was Awesome!!
Quote from: Amber Williams on February 23, 2007, 11:30:11 PM
Quote from: RJ on February 23, 2007, 11:04:56 PM
what happens exactly if there is a 'failure'?
(http://missmab.xepher.net/graphics/Yeti.gif)
EEP!
also:
Amber, what are you doing out of bed? Are you well yet?
if (Amber.answer == "No")
Me.order (Amber, "Go back to bed!");
if (Amber.answer == "Yes")
Me.celebrate ("YAY!);
Quote from: HeroZero on February 23, 2007, 12:19:52 AMWhy can't Cubi feed off themselves? I'd imagine it would be much like a sandwich trying to eat itself: oddly hilarious but impossible.
Oh you have no idea the mental images that sprung to mind when I read that. I couldn't even read the rest of the thread, but instead I had to do this:
(http://www.bristled-comic.com/images/cannibalsandwich.jpg)
If he just figures out how to slim down, we are all doomed.
*politely re-rails the topic* my bad!
Quote from: Azraelle on February 24, 2007, 05:22:45 AM
Quote from: HeroZero on February 23, 2007, 12:19:52 AMWhy can't Cubi feed off themselves? I'd imagine it would be much like a sandwich trying to eat itself: oddly hilarious but impossible.
Oh you have no idea the mental images that sprung to mind when I read that. I couldn't even read the rest of the thread, but instead I had to do this:
(http://www.bristled-comic.com/images/cannibalsandwich.jpg)
If he just figures out how to slim down, we are all doomed.
*politely re-rails the topic* my bad!
AAAYYYYEEEEEYYAAAAA!! *as the words echos throughout the world* My dark gods tremble with fear of this sandwitch! My mind is currupted like anti-Jyyras!
Quote from: Azraelle on February 24, 2007, 05:22:45 AM
Quote from: HeroZero on February 23, 2007, 12:19:52 AMWhy can't Cubi feed off themselves? I'd imagine it would be much like a sandwich trying to eat itself: oddly hilarious but impossible.
Oh you have no idea the mental images that sprung to mind when I read that. I couldn't even read the rest of the thread, but instead I had to do this:
(http://www.bristled-comic.com/images/cannibalsandwich.jpg)
If he just figures out how to slim down, we are all doomed.
*politely re-rails the topic* my bad!
I love it i'm laughing my ass off very funny indeed.