Cybernations

[insidexml]

You can't buy a nuke without a Manhattan Project.

well, we can always dream...

Yeah, you should also dream up $500k for the initial cost, plus the money for the upkeep (which is doubled if you lack access to uranium), and a tech level of 75. If you don't have the Manhattan Project, well, you could always opt to be in the top 5% of players.

[Darkdragon]

I am on the end of my Christmas vacation and would be getting back into the groove of things as soon as I get back on the 3rd. If anyone needs 3 million give me a message and I'll fill the order ASAP.

I apologize for my lack of attention on this aspect whilst on vacation.

[SquirrelWizard]

another question.

I've noticed that he doesn't have technology to support aircraft, even though he does have 13 of some type. I'm at the point where I can buy level 1 aircraft of either type. I read up on air raids and I can destroy up to 20 tanks, 20 infra, and 5 missiles per run. I was wondering how many str 1 bombers I would need to achieve this?

I'm thinking on going the route of "declare peace or I'll bomb you back into the stone age."

[Tezkat]

another question.

I've noticed that he doesn't have technology to support aircraft, even though he does have 13 of some type. I'm at the point where I can buy level 1 aircraft of either type. I read up on air raids and I can destroy up to 20 tanks, 20 infra, and 5 missiles per run. I was wondering how many str 1 bombers I would need to achieve this?

"Lots."

You need a full 50 or so bombers to approach max damage with level 1 aircraft.


This guy is built specifically as a low level griefer. He's gone all guerrilla camps, which basically gimps his economy in return for having a crazy high number of troops. In order to compete with that, you need to build up to several times his infra (or raze your improvements for camps of your own, which really isn't worth it). If you do choose to counterattack, keep in mind that his troops are much stronger than yours on a per soldier basis.

You can get away with maxing troops, both soldiers and tanks. You can largely ignore any effects this has on your economy, since you'll be getting subsidies from above and shouldn't even have to collect much during the fight. You're already in anarchy anyway. So long as your forces are stronger than his, your bank account is safe. In a serious war, you'd do this anyway, but you'd collect and pay bills before buying troops. If you have too many when the war ends, just disband them.

Don't deploy troops against him unless a good portion of his own are out for battle or you build up to a huge numerical advantage. This guy depends on cash from raiding to survive. You can starve him to death, especially if your military is too strong for him to risk deploying against his other target. Failed raids, on the other hand, will give him much needed cash.

Don't send out any tech till the war is over. It gives you a large advantage in combat. We can cover for you should any sales obligations come due.

Cruise missiles are your friend. Buy two of them every day and send them over first thing.


It might be helpful if you posted your battle logs, so we can offer suggestions and commentary.

I'm thinking on going the route of "declare peace or I'll bomb you back into the stone age."

Personally, I'd recommend you just have fun learning the war system and kick his ass. Check out some of the CN war threads further down the page for more tips. You won't have many chances to practice until we're called to fight in large scale alliance conflicts, and any losses you sustain would be wiped out by a single foreign aid shipment from one of us.




And on the topic of war...

Given the huge number of treaty connections on both sides of the conflict, the TPF war could easily blow up into a full server bash. Purple has strong links to TPF, and we will likely be joining the conflict Sometime Soon Now. That means DMFA needs to be in full war preparation mode as of three days ago.

If your warchest is under $1 billion or so, you should stop constructing and work on it. Anyone who needs help with their cash reserves or military, give a holler.

[insidexml]

HoG's already been drawn into the conflict due to an agreement with Athens, who are at war with TPF.

...awkwaaaaaaard.

[Tezkat]

Oh noes! Spaiz!


I'm still catching up on the situation myself... Is it just me, or are the CBs getting thinner and thinner with each new excuse for a server war?

[insidexml]

I've never really cared for war all that much. I honestly had no idea that there was any tension at all until we were all sent a message regarding the situation with Athens.

I definetely need to become more aware of world affairs

Last time this happened was when we attacked Tempest, and, well... that worked out splendidly, didn't it?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

If your warchest is under $1 billion or so, you should stop constructing and work on it. Anyone who needs help with their cash reserves or military, give a holler.

1 billion?

I mean, my expenses are 9 million a day, so I was working on 180 million or so - and lurking at about 248, just prior to purchasing my last wonder (universal health care, yay!) so I'm back down around 140 million or so.

I'm happy to save up, since I was planning on doing so anyway, but that much? That's a heck of a temptation to anyone larger than me to come visiting...

[Mao]

Hmm.. just noticed this now but...

Under what assumptions do you believe that you need tech at all?

Here's a simple breakdown:
Less than 4k infra = selling tech
Between 4k and 5k infra = whatever
More than 5k infra = buying tech

You should be getting rid of your tech, not buying more. Moreover, You aren't losing anything by giving away tech that I gave you in the first place.

Fact is that it should take you a month to reach 5k infra from where you are right now. Of course, with you sticking your head in the sand, it'll take closer to half a year... probably more. In the mean time, you might as well make yourself useful by forwarding tech.

What's up with that?  You got a glitch we should know about?

It's a game man, simmer down.

[Keleth]

And on the topic of war...

Given the huge number of treaty connections on both sides of the conflict, the TPF war could easily blow up into a full server bash. Purple has strong links to TPF, and we will likely be joining the conflict Sometime Soon Now. That means DMFA needs to be in full war preparation mode as of three days ago.

If your warchest is under $1 billion or so, you should stop constructing and work on it. Anyone who needs help with their cash reserves or military, give a holler.

That's what I was working towards actually, was hoping to get built enough to get some Navy in order to start producing some blockades, though I don't really know if that's feasable.  And my warchest right now I've been keeping around 16-18 million and working with the surplus from my tax collecting in case I got hammered.

Under what assumptions do you believe that you need tech at all?

Here's a simple breakdown:
Less than 4k infra = selling tech
Between 4k and 5k infra = whatever
More than 5k infra = buying tech

You should be getting rid of your tech, not buying more. Moreover, You aren't losing anything by giving away tech that I gave you in the first place.

Fact is that it should take you a month to reach 5k infra from where you are right now. Of course, with you sticking your head in the sand, it'll take closer to half a year... probably more. In the mean time, you might as well make yourself useful by forwarding tech.

2,500 Infrastructure in one month? Oh man is there a game mechanic I'm missing here? If so I'd be glad to do that, I mean I could blow my whole warchest, but I thought it would be good to keep that for the impending conflict.

And regarding what do I need tech for. . . For decent aircraft and Navy vessels in order to contribute to the conflict so I'm not just sitting there getting pounded sucking up various foreign aid slots?

[SquirrelWizard]

It might be helpful if you posted your battle logs, so we can offer suggestions and commentary.

  You have been attacked by Crazzy. You lost 389 soldiers and 50 tanks. You killed 111 soldiers and 0 tanks. Their forces razed 6.031 miles of your land, stole 2.503 technology, and destroyed 17.219 infrastructure. Their forces looted $275,592.27 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

You have been attacked by Crazzy. You lost 234 soldiers and 39 tanks. You killed 188 soldiers and 5 tanks. Their forces razed 5.791 miles of your land, stole 2.378 technology, and destroyed 16.534 infrastructure. Their forces looted $412,010.45 from you and you gained $0.00 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Defeat. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

These are the only two cached reports I have, between two cruise missile salvos and my air raids, I've done a fair number on his infra, tanks, and tech.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

be useful if you could say how many troops/tanks/etc he's sending at you, too. I'm not sure if you get told that...

[SquirrelWizard]

nah i basically copied and pasted the combat reports from my battle messages, they dont tell you how much was sent at you.

I guess I need to level up my espionage tech... 

[Tezkat]

If your warchest is under $1 billion or so, you should stop constructing and work on it. Anyone who needs help with their cash reserves or military, give a holler.

1 billion?

I mean, my expenses are 9 million a day, so I was working on 180 million or so - and lurking at about 248, just prior to purchasing my last wonder (universal health care, yay!) so I'm back down around 140 million or so.

I'm happy to save up, since I was planning on doing so anyway, but that much? That's a heck of a temptation to anyone larger than me to come visiting...

Heh. That was just my way of hinting that you can't have too big a warchest for a server war.

At the moment, the war is just some idiots who have a beef with TPF and decided to bring their friends to roll them.

It's not hard to see which side we'd turn up on. Although we do have a few links to the other side, BAPS (our nominal protectors and link to Poseidon) has a full MDoAP with TPF just waiting to be activated, and most of PEACE has at least and ODP with them, with full MDP+ chains only an alliance or two removed. And half of Poseidon is still technically at war with \m/. Also, on a more personal note, most of TPF's current leadership is former Elysium, our first protectors in CN and the ones who brought us into what eventually became the great Purple Unity.

But if you step back and look at the big picture...

Purple leadership has been waiting for the other shoe to drop at least since the pounding we took during the Karma War. There's an entire bloc waiting to pounce on PEACE at the first opportunity. The Karma remnants are eager to test their newfound power. Unlike the days when Pacifica ruled the world, our side is likely going to find itself outnumbered and outgunned, so the fighting will end on their terms, not ours. The survival of the Purple sphere as a viable power on Planet Bob is at stake. If we lose PEACE, we lose our protection, and it's back to open season on the little 11-player microalliance.

If everything blows up like some of us expect, the conflict could easily drag on for months and/or end with some very unfair surrender terms, followed by a long period of rebuilding. All of that demands enormous cash reserves. Don't forget that there's a really low cap on how much enemies can grab in each attack, so it takes a long time to whittle away at sufficiently large reserves. Wars on that scale can last until one side runs out of cash or infra.

So yeah... $1 billion in the kitty is not an unreasonable target. Many players in these parts are up in that range now. Personally, I should have close to $2 billion by the time we fire the first shots.

And regarding what do I need tech for. . . For decent aircraft and Navy vessels in order to contribute to the conflict so I'm not just sitting there getting pounded sucking up various foreign aid slots?

Having cash and tech during wartime = good.

But the "standard" approach to boosting noobies is for them to run full tech sales until 4k and then switch over to buying.

be useful if you could say how many troops/tanks/etc he's sending at you, too. I'm not sure if you get told that...

You don't...

However, logs of your own battles (in Sent Messages) could be helpful for training purposes, too.

nah i basically copied and pasted the combat reports from my battle messages, they dont tell you how much was sent at you.

I guess I need to level up my espionage tech...  

Spies are utterly useless until you're quite large.

I tossed you some extra cash as well, so feel free to pump all of llearch's donation into infra and troops.

[SquirrelWizard]

thanks, and I was joking about the spies. It was a nod towards the "spying" technology that one has to constantly pump so that they can see what they're shooting at. (see evony, ogame, ect)

edit: will have my combat reports up. didn't know they were stored in my sent folder.

edit2:

Cruise Missile Attack #1
Your nation has been attacked with a cruise missile by SquirrelWizard. You lost 10 defending tanks, 1.58 technology, and 1.70 infrastructure. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Cruise Missile Attack #2
Your nation has been attacked with a cruise missile by SquirrelWizard. You lost 10 defending tanks, 0.52 technology, and 10.05 infrastructure. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Cruise Missile Attack #3
Your nation has been attacked with a cruise missile by SquirrelWizard. You lost 10 defending tanks, 0.35 technology, and 9.97 infrastructure. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Cruise Missile Attack #4
Your nation has been attacked with a cruise missile by SquirrelWizard. You lost 10 defending tanks, 2.01 technology, and 10.05 infrastructure. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Aircraft Dog Fight
A fighter aircraft dog fight has just occurred against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Bombing Report
A fighter escorted bombing run has been launched against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 1 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, and 5.62 infrastructure. You destroyed 0 attacking bombers. You lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

total damage done
41 tanks
4.46 tech
37.39 infra

[Keleth]

So it's gonna be an epic explosion of doom eh Tez?

. . Does this mean I should start stocking up on nuclear weapons at some point in the future? XD

[SquirrelWizard]

bah who cares about nukes when you have viking kitten bombs.

I hear they're illegal in 3 states, sins against various gods in a couple of parallel universes, and the only approved method of dealing with heathens in one parrish.

edit: on a more serious note; when they say keep your soldier count below 60% of your civilian pop, is that based on the total # of supporters, or your current working population?

[Tezkat]

Aircraft Dog Fight
A fighter aircraft dog fight has just occurred against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Bombing Report
A fighter escorted bombing run has been launched against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 1 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, and 5.62 infrastructure. You destroyed 0 attacking bombers. You lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Heh. Guess there's no point in dogfighting.

Out of curiosity, how many aircraft are you sending to achieve that level of results?

So it's gonna be an epic explosion of doom eh Tez?

Maybe. So far, none of TPF's allies have responded one way or the other...

. . Does this mean I should start stocking up on nuclear weapons at some point in the future? XD

At some point in the future, sure...

I'd wait until you're big enough that a Manhattan Project won't make too big a dent in your warchest, though.

edit: on a more serious note; when they say keep your soldier count below 60% of your civilian pop, is that based on the total # of supporters, or your current working population?

Civilian population. And it's soldier efficiency, I believe, not soldier count.

Those are peacetime rules, anyway. In war, you want to have your troops maxed every time you log out. You should be living off your warchest, not your collections. (Indeed, a lot of players will wait until their wars end to collect taxes.) The cost of losing or having to disband a few troops is almost always less than replacing land, tech, infra, and stolen cash.

[SquirrelWizard]

I sent 20 of the 1 str bombers at him in that combat report.

[Keleth]

Why do you need a manhattan project when you already have access to uranium and can buy a bomb right now?

:b

[Tezkat]

Um... I don't think it'll let you make that purchase at your size without an MP. You're welcome to try, though...

[insidexml]

Yes, you need to be in the top 5% of players to build a nuclear weapon without the Manhattan Project.

Good luck with that.

[Keleth]

Um... I don't think it'll let you make that purchase at your size without an MP. You're welcome to try, though...

It had them listed on the military purchase screen and said the price for em, I just assumed I could get em, I thought the mahattaan project originally was to let you build without uranium

Sorry, I got overly excited.

[SquirrelWizard]

Battle Report #3
You have been attacked by Crazzy. You lost 1,016 soldiers and 54 tanks. You killed 1,212 soldiers and 162 tanks. Their forces razed 0.000 miles of your land, stole 0.000 technology, and destroyed 0.000 infrastructure. Their forces looted $0.00 from you and you gained $15,261.85 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Victory. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

Battle Report #4
You have been attacked by Crazzy. You lost 726 soldiers and 44 tanks. You killed 668 soldiers and 23 tanks. Their forces razed 0.000 miles of your land, stole 0.000 technology, and destroyed 0.000 infrastructure. Their forces looted $0.00 from you and you gained $6,143.74 in your enemy's abandoned equipment. In the end the battle was a Victory. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

edit: looks like someone wants some more pain.

[Kasarn]

2,500 Infrastructure in one month? Oh man is there a game mechanic I'm missing here? If so I'd be glad to do that, I mean I could blow my whole warchest, but I thought it would be good to keep that for the impending conflict.

You are missing out on tech trading.

And you should to be improvement swapping:
Buy labor camps.
Pay bills for 10-20 days.
Replace labor camps with factories.
Buy a heap of infra.
Replace factories with income booster (banks, stadiums, etc)
Collect taxes.
Repeat.

Since you claim to have a warchest, you should have no problems with this.

http://www.cnpurpleunity.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12 (you will need an account to read that)
http://www.google.com/search?q=cybernations+improvement+swapping

And regarding what do I need tech for. . . For decent aircraft and Navy vessels in order to contribute to the conflict so I'm not just sitting there getting pounded sucking up various foreign aid slots?

Wars in CN are largely one-sided and we are unlikely to be on the winning side. Should DMFA become involved, "sitting there getting pounded" is pretty much all we will be doing.

[Keleth]

2,500 Infrastructure in one month? Oh man is there a game mechanic I'm missing here? If so I'd be glad to do that, I mean I could blow my whole warchest, but I thought it would be good to keep that for the impending conflict.

You are missing out on tech trading.

And you should to be improvement swapping:
Buy labor camps.
Pay bills for 10-20 days.
Replace labor camps with factories.
Buy a heap of infra.
Replace factories with income booster (banks, stadiums, etc)
Collect taxes.
Repeat.

Since you claim to have a warchest, you should have no problems with this.

http://www.cnpurpleunity.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=12 (you will need an account to read that)
http://www.google.com/search?q=cybernations+improvement+swapping

And regarding what do I need tech for. . . For decent aircraft and Navy vessels in order to contribute to the conflict so I'm not just sitting there getting pounded sucking up various foreign aid slots?

Wars in CN are largely one-sided and we are unlikely to be on the winning side. Should DMFA become involved, "sitting there getting pounded" is pretty much all we will be doing.

okay, understood. . .

I'll be reading that up and seriously thinking about it.

I just have one question,  If you're only 2 days older than me, how come you're not past 5k infra as of a few months ago? Do you have your head in the sand like Me?

[SquirrelWizard]

did some more bombing runs today

A fighter escorted bombing run has been launched against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 20 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, and 20.10 infrastructure. You destroyed 0 attacking bombers. You lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

A fighter escorted bombing run has been launched against your nation by SquirrelWizard. In the attack you lost 9 defending tanks, 0 cruise missiles, and 20.10 infrastructure. You destroyed 0 attacking bombers. You lost 0 fighter aircraft and destroyed 0 fighter aircraft launched by SquirrelWizard. Any existing peace offers that were on the table have been automatically canceled.

20 str 1 fighters, 30 str 1 bombers. 50.1 tech.

[Kasarn]

okay, understood. . .

I'll be reading that up and seriously thinking about it.

I just have one question,  If you're only 2 days older than me, how come you're not past 5k infra as of a few months ago? Do you have your head in the sand like Me?

When I rejoined CN, my intention was to stop at 3k infra and just give away tech (thus why I have a DRA already). However, I fell slightly short on the DRA at that point, so I picked up my Stock Market early (which isn't uncommon) and I ended up doing an extra round and got to 4k infra anyway.

Since then, I've been giving away $7m in aid every ten days, which pretty much amounts to the extra cash I've been making. The rest of my cash has gone into my wonders. You have to decide for yourself when to start buying wonders: they aren't really cost effective until over 4k infra but you can only buy one a month.

Any other scrub questions?

edit: for interest, I should be at least 1k inf ahead of where I am right now. Not that I would've gone beyond 5k infra due to the large increase in costs at the 5k infra jump making purchasing wonders far more worthwhile.

edit 2: btw, get rid of your tanks and cruise missiles
Tanks are relatively expensive to maintain: you pay their purchase price in bills every week. Only buy them when you are pretty sure you'll need them. With PEACE's nations <80k NS going into peace mode, I doubt DMFA is going to become involved.
Cruise missiles serve no defensive purpose, so only buy them when you are going to use them.
Also, for future reference, Navies are incredibly expensive... and require both the attacker and defender to have 1k purchased land.

edit 3: another link of interest: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?autocom=blog&blogid=125

[SquirrelWizard]

So if war is an option, and I'm currently not in a war. What are some good numbers of troop values I should shoot for?

[Kasarn]

So if war is an option, and I'm currently not in a war. What are some good numbers of troop values I should shoot for?

During peace time, the minimum soldier efficiency of 20% of your working citizens is fine. Have more if the warning bothers you.