Cybernations

[Cogidubnus]

Alright. This may sound like a stupid question, but...

From what I can see, the cost of upkeep for Infrastructure goes up with each infrastructure purchase that you make. Now, I know that more infra equals more population, which equals lots more money, but something strikes me.

The cost of infra is retroactive. It appears that, eventually, you're going to reach a cap where you simply have so much infra, that any addition to upkeep cost would far outweigh a population boost of a hundred or so citizens.

If I've missed something, please let me know. It's been gnawing at my head...

[Kasarn]

A long time ago, it used to be at 5k infra. I don't know whether there is one anymore...

[Tezkat]

The game should have been tweaked so that increasing infra will increase income--with an important exception:

At certain points (called "infra jumps"--they occur at 20, 100, 200, 300, 500, 700, 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, and 8000 infra), the cost of upkeep (and often new infra purchase as well) rises substantially. Buying more infra after a jump point will in fact result in reduced income until your population levels (and improvement count) rise enough to make up for the increased upkeep costs. Thus, most experienced players will save up (or wait for an aid boost) to purchase that much infra in one go. The cost of the major infra jumps (the ones at the thousand marks) is typically in the range of 1-2 weeks of income, depending on your resource set and improvements.

Given the rapidly increasing purchase costs, whether it's cost effective to increase infra is another matter entirely. Above 5000 or so infra, there are no longer any income-generating improvements to buy. I'm currently at the point where new building investments take more than four months to pay for themselves. Many people stop at 4999.99 infra and just build wonders and/or accumulate massive war chests for alliance conflicts. On the other hand, that doesn't really increase nation strength or population (which allows you to carry more military). One can no longer hold onto a top 5% spot (required for nuke purchases) with only 5k infra, so they might be forced to grow for the sake of growing.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh, Something to aim for.

In other news, Joe has signed up for Lunar Wars. Now, we've had in the past a "loose guideline" that I've only let people into the alliance after they've reached minimum AI level, which is 200. He's at 42 presently.

Votes on if we let people in early?

[Joe3210]

I can wait a week or so.  There's no rush.

[lucas marcone]

.....i wasn't let in early *mopes*


seriously though dosem't matter to me.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

.....i wasn't let in early *mopes*

Which was about what I figured.

I also figured that letting him know -why- we hadn't acted yet was just polite. Hence the post here. ;-]

[Dannysaysnoo]

I don't think anyone bar Tezkat noticed i joined th alliance. Be careful though, some of my schoolfriends are coming to the game and may join.

[Tezkat]

I don't think anyone bar Tezkat noticed i joined th alliance. Be careful though, some of my schoolfriends are coming to the game and may join.

Kasarn obviously noticed. He sent you $3 million--which you haven't spent yet.


Out of curiosity, who the heck is this guy? Is he one of your schoolfriends?

We need everyone in our alliance to show up here on the forums, since it's our primary communications tool.

[Dannysaysnoo]

I don't think anyone bar Tezkat noticed i joined th alliance. Be careful though, some of my schoolfriends are coming to the game and may join.

Kasarn obviously noticed. He sent you $3 million--which you haven't spent yet.


Out of curiosity, who the heck is this guy? Is he one of your schoolfriends?

We need everyone in our alliance to show up here on the forums, since it's our primary communications tool.

Jep, we might be getting another guy called Brezney. I'm not sure if he's joined yet. Ill tell chris tomorrow if i see him to join here. Failing that, i might just have to keep him involved vocally.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

By the way, Joe, is there a reason you're blue, and not purple like the rest of us?

No pressure, just curious...

[Joe3210]

Just forgot to change the setting.

edit for "moar" content:  I'll be able to change the thing tomorrow.  I just have a few trades using that color.

[Darkdragon]

I wish to remind everybody that there are two free banker slots which people can sign up for.

[Kasarn]

By the way, Joe, is there a reason you're blue, and not purple like the rest of us?

No pressure, just curious...

Everybody knows that the Blue sphere is made of win.


edit:

I don't think anyone bar Tezkat noticed i joined th alliance. Be careful though, some of my schoolfriends are coming to the game and may join.

Just so you know, be careful about your IP addresses. CN has a strict one player/nation per IP address rule.

There are a few technical exceptions, however, the rule is that once you've shared the same IP address as another player, you can't interact with each other in game or there is a good chance you will be banned as a multi.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Do I have a big fat target painted on my nation or something?

For crying out loud. -AGAIN- I've been hit. And now, I can't collect money nor pay bills, nor fix anything. I'm left sitting here waiting for anarchy to die out so I can collect enough spare change to sort out the issues.

Sheesh. And the folks involved are the emperor and one of the council of the alliance listed. Bastards.


Nice bunch, too. Their alliance charter states "we can do what we like to who we like" or words to that effect.

[Brunhidden]

would there be any point to send you troops? or would the soldiers of other nations not even be enough to dent the onslaught?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

not especially.

As I'd need ~20,000 troops to break even. That's out of range of everyone except Tez and Kasarn, and would seriously unbalance them as well. Plus I only have one aid port open...

And you can't send that many troops anyway, I think.


As it stands, I've dropped something on the order of 17 million worth in less than 24 hours. Which sucks, mightily - 6 million of infra, roughly, if not more, 35 levels of tech, 17,000 troops, 1000 tanks, and some unknown stretch of land - I don't know because I didn't calculate it this morning.

And someone else from their alliance, also 32k strength, has decided to lay into me, too. So the cost has gone up again...

OTOH, we have a merger offer from Dave654 over at www.sofacommandos.com - I'll be talking to them about possible mutual defense pacts...

[Tezkat]

And this is why people should keep a few days worth of income on hand at all times...

(It's not so hard... just don't spend anything for a few days and resolve not to touch your stash except in times of emergency.)

OTOH, we have a merger offer from Dave654 over at www.sofacommandos.com - I'll be talking to them about possible mutual defense pacts...

We're actually pretty well matched in terms of alliance strength, but I have to wonder what shape an MDP between two small alliances would take. I seriously doubt it would prevent raiding, which is the main problem. Most raiders these days are the "2 ground attacks and peace agreement" type anyway, and they're unlikely to check MDP webs among small alliances unless we're heavy enough combined to register as a bloc. Retaliating against raiders usually does more harm then good.

I'll admit, though, that I'm curious as to the identities of these "large allies" to whom Dave repeatedly refers.

Here's the original merger request, in case only llearch and I received it...

I come to you today to offer a position at SofaCommandos. We too have been under attack by these piss ant Alliances that are looking to Tech raid and want peace so you don't attack them. This is getting old, and would like to merge your Alliance into SofaCommandos for both of our protection. We are peaceful until attacked, we defend our own, and have many large allies. Please advise your decision. www.sofacommandos.com
Thanks,
Dave654

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

And this is why people should keep a few days worth of income on hand at all times...

*cough* I'll do that, now, but it's so nice to be able to spend it all in one go... ;-]

As for Dave - He responded with much the same reasoning as you. With much the same agreement on my part. OTOH, I can't really see us all signing up to someone else's alliance in someone else's forum...

[lucas marcone]

It's like you said earlier, we're an alliance of friends with a common interest. Like i said earlier mergeing is like selling out. If we could form a bloc maybe this could work...however i know not of how many alliances it takes. Anyway LLearch you've done a good job leading us thus far and I'll follow you in you decisions no matter the outcome.

[Brunhidden]

groups of common interest?

too bad we cant just round up schmucks from every comic forum and form some kind of webcomic empire

[lucas marcone]

......don't tempt me

[Tezkat]

Just a note for those of you nearing the 1k infra mark... The increase in infra maintenance jumps by a fair bit at that point, so you'll be losing money unless you save up at 999.99 and then buy a hundred or so infra in one go. (It varies depending on resources and improvements. If I recall correctly, the break-even point for me was around 1080 infra.)

Also, 28% is always the best tax rate (unless you have Social Security, in which case it's 30% ).

[Cogidubnus]

Just a note for those of you nearing the 1k infra mark... The increase in infra maintenance jumps by a fair bit at that point, so you'll be losing money unless you save up at 999.99 and then buy a hundred or so infra in one go. (It varies depending on resources and improvements. If I recall correctly, the break-even point for me was around 1080 infra.)

Also, 28% is always the best tax rate (unless you have Social Security, in which case it's 30% ).

Ah, the joys of 104.99 infra. 

[Darkdragon]

Just a note for those of you nearing the 1k infra mark... The increase in infra maintenance jumps by a fair bit at that point, so you'll be losing money unless you save up at 999.99 and then buy a hundred or so infra in one go. (It varies depending on resources and improvements. If I recall correctly, the break-even point for me was around 1080 infra.)

Also, 28% is always the best tax rate (unless you have Social Security, in which case it's 30% ).

Thank you for the timely warning, I took the liberty of my nation's two-week "anniversary" and a thoughtful aid offer from Kasarn (Thank you!) to bump up past the point.

Again, if there is anything I can help, feel free to ask.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Incidentally, we now have two nuclear-capable LW nations.

Just in case you were wondering. ;-]

[Kasarn]

Go into War Mode
$15000 + 750 copper for 15000 soldiers
$262500 + 1050 iron for 3500 ground assault units
$2250000 + 450 aluminium for 450 orbital assault fighters
$750000 + 1 uranium for 1 nuke

Depending on how quickly you arm your colony, it'll only take somewhere between 15-45 real days to earn it back

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Really?

Did you take into account the increased costs of supporting those troops?
0.75/LD per soldier, or 45000 per real day,
6.5/LD per GA, or 91000 per real day,
26/LD per fighter, or 46800 per real day,
and, what, 40k for the nuke, didn't you say? 10k/day support?

I make it on the order of 202800 per real day. If we remove the costs already encountered in the troops I have on hand (6615 S, 10 GA, 100 OF, 0 N, for 30505/RD) that's 48073.75/LD - which is, to my understanding, more than half the improvement in income at this level. (I get 15-20k/LD in grants. You?)

While I can collect the cash fairly rapidly, it's a lot of money to spend for negligible returns, as I see it. While your strength leaps up rapidly... mine doesn't -need- to. And I'm -still- overtaking all of you as far as AI goes. ;-]

I figure, I can push AI until I reach, oh, 1400 or so, and then look at concentrating on adding housing. And then, when I reach some sort of balance point where I'm bored, I can build up war stocks and drop into war mode. After adding some stocks of uranium as a cash storage.... ;-]

[Kasarn]

And here I though that indicated a level of humour. I GUESS I WAS WRONG.

From my current collection values
Upkeep in war mode is
1.16/police
0.62/soldier
5.52/ground assault unit
22.10/orbital fighter
8500/nuke

$75380 grants (war mode) - $15076 grants (base) = $60304 grants (extra)
$52323 military - $4300.5 (peace mode soldier cost) = $48022.5
$60304 - $48022.5 = $12281.5

$3277500/$12281.5 = 266.86 collections / 4 = 66.72 days
When did I go into War Mode?

Of course, you don't have to buy a full military straight away. At the absolute quickest.
$3277500/$60304 = 54.4 collections / 4 = 13.6 days


Of course, I haven't added in the hidden cost of your military deployment increasing with each AI level. Having just bought 10AI, here's what I spent (I currently have double my maximum deployment)

$399 on 399 soldiers
$4650 on 62 GA
$30000 on 6 OF
Total $35049

And the cost of minerals
399 soldiers = 19.95 copper
62 GA = 18.6 iron
6 OF = 6 aluminium

Assuming you would sell them for $100 each, that's $4455

Assuming you only buy AI every 10 collections
$3504.9 + $445.5 = $3950.4

$12281.5 - $3950.4 = $8331.1

*insert money sound here: ching ching ching ching ching*

*no applause*

*crickets chirp*

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

A whole 8000/LD? Man, how long would you have to save that up to reach the 3 million plus cost of buying troops? ;-]

In return for... well, for being available for all the morons out there to attack? I think I've been kicked enough in CN. It's making me paranoid, I suspect, and unlikely to catch jokes. :-/