Bad Words (warning contains Bad Words)

[thegayhare]

Hello All

This is meant to be a serous discusion about swear words and there origins,  that means there will be swears used in this thread.  This is not carte blanche for folks to display there own personal vocab, and I really hope it doesn't degenerate into something bad.

A short while ago I read an interesting article.  It was talking about the differences between curses in english and Canadian french. 

It turns out english speaking Canadians use the same swears as in the us.  Words like shit, and fuck get bleeped on there english TV, and are considered just as rude.  However the french equivalents are not considered rude.  Merde isn't even bleeped on TV.   The nastiest Canadian French swears however would confuse Americans with there blandness.  Religious terms like tabernacle, baptism, and Christ are the worst swears in french speaking Canada.   Of course this isn't so in Parisian french I believe there swears are more in-line with ours.

One of the reason suggested for this was that a cultures social taboos arise from what is seen as oppressive in that culture.  In America we started with those strict Puritan rules about sex, and there seeming terror of the human body.  So from there it became a tabboo to speak about most natural functions.  So thats where our swears grew out of.   America's choice in religious swears is rather tame, generally regulated to mild expresions of anger, pain, or distaste. "God Damn it that hurt" or "Christ on a crooked crutch where the hell did the remote go" and the like. *1  Then there is always the fear of the unknown or the outsider which gives rise to ethnic insults like chink, mic, (I am not smart enough to use polite words), and more recognisable slurs.

From what the article said french Canada's use of religious terms stems from the fact that until fairly recently the church had an inordinate amount of influence and control of Canadian citizens.  In 1960's Canada had what was called the Quiet Revolution when almost over night about  3/4ths of Canadians stopped going to church, most overtly Christian laws were expunged (such as the laws limiting what could be done on sundays, anti sodomy statutes and immigration policies that favored Christians).  So French Canadian curses grew out of that environment of religious control and they've lingred since the revelution.  To most folks now a days they are just the words that have always been swears.

I know cultural norms shift from country to country so this shouldn't be to strange but it just strikes me as fascinating.  I know some common American swears  simply wouldn't work in some countries,  call a German man a bastard and they would simply correct you thinking your ignorant, but call him a pig dog and he'd most likely deck you.  the same is true for obscene or rude gestures.  The range, variety and meaning of hand signs around the globe is truly amazing.

So what do you folk think?

*1
just an interesting side note I remember reading a in a Discworld novel that the only reasons dwarfs have gods is so that they have some one to blaspheme to.  I mean it takes a special kind of atheist to, when they smash there thumb with a ten pound hammer, scream "Ohh damned random fluctuations of chance that my hand would slip like that!"  it's much more satisfying to say "Ohh gods damn it that fucking hurt!"

[Netami]

I think swear words are great!

[Zedd]

I wish they wasnt much a probley..No one can truely stop currsing

[superluser]

Some languages don't really have obscenities.  I was always told that Latin didn't.  There were words that meant obscene things, but it wasn't impolite to say them in public.  I tend to take the same opinion.

I know that you could be executed for saying `havok' in the 9th year of the reign of Richard II.

Douglas Adams, of course, had an excellent take on swearing.

[Alan Garou]

The word "fuck" is actually a corruption of the word "pluck." It originated in the context of the middle finger because during the Hundred Year's War the English used their middle fingers to pull the string of their yew longbows, or "pluck yew." The weapon was so devastating that whenever the French captured an English soldier, they chopped off his middle finger so he could no longer use it. After a particularly miraculous defeat of the French, the English soldiers taunted them by holding up their middle fingers (to show that they still had them) and saying "we can still pluck yew." This evolved into the tradition of sticking up the middle finger and saying "fuck you."

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

This is a corruption, actually. The english longbow used two fingers, just like the french bow. The difference is the size of the bow, and the way they were employed.

Both sides routinely cut off the first two fingers of captured bowmen, however - perhaps as a result of the carnage the bowmen created in the other side. Agincourt leaps into mind, although there have been equally silly fights played from the British side against the French, where the French did much the same (ie, killed lots of peopel and won the day) in history.

Pity I can't remember any details, but if you look up snopes for the finger thing, and wikipedia for linkes leading from Agincourt, you're on for a good start...

[Reese Tora]

The word "fuck" is actually a corruption of the word "pluck." It originated in the context of the middle finger because during the Hundred Year's War the English used their middle fingers to pull the string of their yew longbows, or "pluck yew." The weapon was so devastating that whenever the French captured an English soldier, they chopped off his middle finger so he could no longer use it. After a particularly miraculous defeat of the French, the English soldiers taunted them by holding up their middle fingers (to show that they still had them) and saying "we can still pluck yew." This evolved into the tradition of sticking up the middle finger and saying "fuck you."

unfortunately, the word coming from that battle is actually a myth...

http://www.snopes.com/language/apocryph/pluckyew.htm

The origins of the word, as of yet, havn't really been traced to anything in particular

(and, before someone mentions it, "Fornication Under Consent of the King" is a backronym, and there never was such a thing)

--edit--

It's an unfortunate thing, but this story is even being propogated as such venues as the Renesance fair... It was one of the stories that we used to entertain the guests while we removed the arrows from the targets at the archery booth.

[TheGreyRonin]

I've always found the concept of "bad words" intriguing. To quote George Carlin: "There are no bad words. Bad thoughts, bad deeds...and words."

A word means what you put into it. While one particular grunt means something to you, in another language it means something else, and in still others nothing at all.

Still, it's amusing to watch people react to a certain sound, simply because they choose to assign a naughty meaning to it. I personally avoid using common profanity for the same reason one doesn't wander around screaming "Look out!" every ten seconds. Though it only means what you wish it to, overusing a particular word or words robs them of even that.

[Supercheese]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_expletives

Bags! This frakking thread is only suitable for kriffing Sithspit.

EDIT: LOL, they have "zoinks" from Scooby Doo 

[Netami]

Fuck.

[Kasarn]

You galah.

[Alondro]

Faggots are everywhere!  Look at all the faggots!

*sighs and begins picking up the offending bundles of twigs and brambles* 

How that got changed to its current meaning, I do not know.   

[Brunhidden]

i preffer colourfull language to swearwords.

you can say the 'f' word five times in one scentance? whoop de freakin do. you know four diffrent words for fecal matter? ho hum. you mention that a person has sex with donkeys against their will? okay, thats a slight improvement but you can do better.

when you can insult a way that compares them to staring at you like a polar bears butt, insinuates they have all maner of problems involving pronouns, and anything involving a dead moose. well, THATS the way to talk.

i dont care if you swear or not, but be createive for the love of monkeys.

The rod up that mans but must have a rod up its butt

[Mel Dragonkitty]

People who use vulgarities for commas lose the ability to actually curse when it's necessary. Who pays attention to them after about a day? I haven't used a vulgarity in about five years, but the guy that got cursed at that day still doesn't dare to step into my office. Everyone of my acquaintance knows that if I'm enraged enough that my vocabulary devolves to that level you should exit the state in an orderly manner. That's an effective use of swearing.

[Reese Tora]

after a little research on an interesting site I know of...

http://www.wordorigins.org/Words/LetterF/fuck.html

http://www.wordorigins.org/Words/LetterF/[blank].html

A few more words are also described by this site, though I have a feeling that the language filter will start breaking my links if I post them...

for the main page: http://www.wordorigins.org/
(they also have many more innocuous phrases, like "kitty corner" "bated breath" and "scuttlebutt")

--edit--

yup, it broke my link for hte word that originally meant a bundle of wood or twigs... fill in the [blank]s yourself :p

[superluser]

Ooh!  A chance to use the magnifying glass I just picked up!  The OED lists the first use in 1503, ``Be his feiris he wald haue fukkit,'' and while the ulterior etymology is uncertain, it would appear to be related to a Middle English fukken, but this word does not seem to exist, if I'm reading this correctly.

[Cogidubnus]

Hungarian has some very interesting curses...

[Vidar]

With a litte imagination, just about any word can be used as an expletive.

Hungarian has some very interesting curses...

Tell us! TELL US! I want to be able to call someone an ass-hat in hungarian, and get away with it! 

[Cogidubnus]

No, becuase then I'd have to translate them. 

Just go here: http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Hungarian.2.html (probably nsfw. Naughty words, so goes without saying, I guess)

[RJ]

Hm, let me consult a book by my favourite author, Bill Bryson. I have no idea why I bought a book on the evolution of the American language, but I have to admit it's amusing.

*turns to the "naughty" chapter, lol*

Bryson writes that "sex among the Puritans was considered as natural as eating, and was discussed about as casually, to the extent that 'the writings of the Puritans required heavy editing before they were thought fit to print even in the mid-twentieth century'... but as the eighteenth century gave way to the nineteenth, people suddenly bcame acutely- and eventually almost hysterically- sensitive about terms related to sex and the body. No one knows exactly when or why this morbid delicacy erupted. Like most fashions, it just happened."

It's an interesting book. I've yet to read his 'Mother Tongue' book though.

[superluser]

eventually almost hysterically- sensitive about terms related to sex and the body.

Ha!  I wonder if you could even say `hysterical' back then.

[RJ]

Let me put it to you as absurdly as possible...

"For women in particular, this rhetorical fastidiousness was not just absurd by dangerous. For much of the nineteenth century, ankles denoted the whole of a woman's body below the waist, while stomach did similar service for everything between the waist and head. It thus became impossible to inform a doctor of almost any serious medical complaint. Page Smith notes a typical case in which a young woman with a growth on her breast could only describe it to her physician as a pain in her stomach."

You should see what they did when it came to sex education... geez, it's a wonder some people were able to work it out at all...

[superluser]

You should see what they did when it came to sex education... geez, it's a wonder some people were able to work it out at all...

Well, to be fair, compulsory education (at least in my country) didn't exist until 1852, and wasn't universal until 1918.

[King Of Hearts]

hmmm the story I heard about Fuck is that its used in legal terms.

something something carnal knowledge... as used as an acronym when it comes to rape cases.

[superluser]

hmmm the story I heard about Fuck is that its used in legal terms.

something something carnal knowledge... as used as an acronym when it comes to rape cases.

You're thinking of French Connection UK.

[Alan Garou]

Faggots are everywhere!  Look at all the faggots!

*sighs and begins picking up the offending bundles of twigs and brambles* 

How that got changed to its current meaning, I do not know.   

You sir, win at the internet for the next day.

[Tiger_T]

Reminds me of this > http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/1917 Newsground from some time ago.

In the last few years there has been a trend In germany to (jokingly) insult with non-insulting description-combinations.
A prominent one is "Warmduscher" (describes one who showers with warm water) (#2 http://dict.leo.org/ translates it to "milksob")

I think the group of those words, like "Frauenversteher" (women-understander), "Sitzpinkler" (sit-peeer) and such are meant to call people wimps.
It's mostly harmless mocking, nontheless they are legit insults that can aggravate people in the right (wrong?) situations.

[superluser]

In the last few years there has been a trend In germany to (jokingly) insult with non-insulting description-combinations.
A prominent one is "Warmduscher" (describes one who showers with warm water) (#2 http://dict.leo.org/ translates it to "milksob")

I think the group of those words, like "Frauenversteher" (women-understander), "Sitzpinkler" (sit-peeer) and such are meant to call people wimps.
It's mostly harmless mocking, nontheless they are legit insults that can aggravate people in the right (wrong?) situations.

We've got plenty of those in English.

`Warmduscher' would probably be literally translated as `lukewarm,' a pretty nasty thing to be called, but perfectly polite.  Given that it's translated as `milksob,' a better idiomatic translation would probably be `milquetoast,' a really nasty (but again polite) thing to call someone.

We also have `quiche-eater,' which is probably a good translation of `Sitzpinkler.'

[Suwako]

Shit 

[Teroniss]

Theres another possible origin for the word fuck. During the mid-1500's, the Catholic church tried to put a stop to homosexuality aboard ships by sanctioning prostitution and requiring certaIn ships to hire shipwhores. The name of the French version of these was a fuque.