Internet Exploder 7

[JousterL]

I don't know if anyone else has allowed the upgrade to go through. Maybe none of you have had problems. But I figured I'd mention it here just in case, 'cuz I've had a painful time.

Windows Update threw IE 7 onto me. I allowed it, and went on with my computing. It told me it needed to restart, so I let it. When my computer loaded back up... I was suddenly confronted with a blue screen. "IRQL_DRIVER_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL". This is generally reserved for driver conflicts... I hadn't updated anything else or changed anything, other than IE7. Could not get into Windows, had to boot into Safe mode. First thing I did was uninstall IE7. Still blue-screened. Then I system-restored back before I had installed IE7.

Well, now I have a working computer, that I have to allow to load twice. If I restart, I'm planning on restarting twice, because the first time Windows loads after a restart/boot up, I get blue-screened with that message.

Just a heads-up. I'm not allowing MS to throw that piece of **** onto here.

[Tapewolf]

Windows Update threw IE 7 onto me. I allowed it, and went on with my computing. It told me it needed to restart, so I let it. When my computer loaded back up... I was suddenly confronted with a blue screen. "IRQL_DRIVER_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL".

They made the browser run in kernel-mode?  Boy, oh boy!  Let's see if I can write a web page that boots the Linux kernel 

[Aridas]

I've never had that problem, so it could be just you and a small handful of other people.

[Jack McSlay]

and I thought they said to be trying to  remove OS integration from IE for security 

"When all else fail, use Linux" 

[DigitalMan]

And right around here goes a Rocky Horror Picture Show-esque "OH SHIT!"

I suggest a reformatting. But I always suggest a reformatting, that's my schtick. Remember folks, never less than once a year! It's built into Windows!

Oddly enough, my Windows Update hasn't mentioned it, and I'm glad. IE6 works perfectly in every way, and I don't want to fix what isn't broken. Because then I'd probably have to reformat. Just like when I installed XP Service Pack 2 the first time.

[Aridas]

I'm not sure they'd be able to do that with XP, since it's Vista that was built from the ground up, and XP has... whatever it has. Though, typing a web address in an explorer window no longer opens it in the same window, instead in a new IE7 window/tab.. so... whatever that's evidence of... *Shrugs* You'll get nothing informative out of my split second glances.

[ShadesFox]

Yea, I may grab IE7 and see if I have any problem.  My Windows is mostly pristine (it only runs games really).

Windows Update threw IE 7 onto me. I allowed it, and went on with my computing. It told me it needed to restart, so I let it. When my computer loaded back up... I was suddenly confronted with a blue screen. "IRQL_DRIVER_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL".

They made the browser run in kernel-mode?  Boy, oh boy!  Let's see if I can write a web page that boots the Linux kernel 

It has always run in kernel mode.    In particular I think that the GUI widget painting is done in the kernel to reduce context switching. 

Anyways, it is certainly possible to find a way to boot a Linux kernel through a web page.  You just need an IE6/7 exploit that will execute arbitrary code and probably a kernel from the coLinux project.  Though most arbitrary executable exploits will have a hard time taking a several meg kernel image, so you would probably need to make a bootstrap exploit that gets in, gets into a known state, downloads the kernel image in the background plus a user land, then starts the kernel as a service.  Though that is fairly SOP for any exploit.

[Tapewolf]

They made the browser run in kernel-mode?  Boy, oh boy!  Let's see if I can write a web page that boots the Linux kernel 

It has always run in kernel mode.    In particular I think that the GUI widget painting is done in the kernel to reduce context switching.

I was under the impression that only the display driver was running in ring 0.  If the widget library itself ran at that level it would open up such an amazing class of exploits that the mind boggles.

Anyways, it is certainly possible to find a way to boot a Linux kernel through a web page.  You just need an IE6/7 exploit that will execute arbitrary code and probably a kernel from the coLinux project. 

Most such exploits only get in at the application level unless you can crack open the display driver itself.  In order to actually replace the Windows kernel while it's running you'd have to hook into code running in ring 0 and jump into the Linux code.
Apparently everything does run in R0 in the X-box for performance reasons which is why you can make savegames that boot Linux.  I've never heard of it being done in 'proper' Windows though - for all its faults nearly everything except certain device drivers is running in ring 3 (application level).

That's my understanding, anyway.
As for Jouster, my guess would be that something else was sneaked in too - I simply can't believe that IE7 by itself would be able to crash the system to that degree.

[Stygian]

Drop the retarded explorer and hitch a ride on the Mozilla express, chap! Cheerio! *flies off in a zeppelin*

[ShadesFox]

I was under the impression that only the display driver was running in ring 0.  If the widget library itself ran at that level it would open up such an amazing class of exploits that the mind boggles.

Anyways, it is certainly possible to find a way to boot a Linux kernel through a web page.  You just need an IE6/7 exploit that will execute arbitrary code and probably a kernel from the coLinux project. 

Most such exploits only get in at the application level unless you can crack open the display driver itself.  In order to actually replace the Windows kernel while it's running you'd have to hook into code running in ring 0 and jump into the Linux code.
Apparently everything does run in R0 in the X-box for performance reasons which is why you can make savegames that boot Linux.  I've never heard of it being done in 'proper' Windows though - for all its faults nearly everything except certain device drivers is running in ring 3 (application level).

That's my understanding, anyway.

Oh no, large chunks of windows runs in ring 0.  Though the MS documentation usually refers to this as kernel mode.  Actually, most documentation for any OS refers to this as kernel mode.  I think that one of the selling points of Server 2003 is that IIS6 negotiates HTTP connections in the kernel so that IIS can crash and still retain the HTTP sessions.

[DigitalMan]

You lost me... I can't believe you lost me... Something's not right here.

As for what caused the problem, many things can cause a system to be at the verge of crashing without showing any signs. New installations, especially ones so integrated, can upset the balance and push it over the edge. Chances are, something was regularly accessing memory or using a command or doing something else that it should not have, but the system didn't care because it didn't interfere. Then IE7 tried to use that memory or do whatever, and suddenly there was a conflict.

[JousterL]

If something snuck in, I'd be severely surprised, seeing as how I got it from the Windows Update subsystem. Furthermore, I tend to keep relatively good track of what my computer's doing.

Anyway, I'm doing a reformat this Christmas.
Reasons:
1. I want to establish a reformat once a year.
2. I hate reformatting, it takes a lot of time to rebuild applications/settings.

So until then... guess I'll just live with it.

[DigitalMan]

*gives thumbs-up* Good plan. Not to mention a third reason: Windows Updates work infinitely better when installed before everything else. SP2 most noteably. I don't even install my tablet before downloading everything. Plus, whatever may have caused the IE7 error is likely to kindly step aside if IE7 is there before the conflicting program is installed.

[Tapewolf]

If something snuck in, I'd be severely surprised, seeing as how I got it from the Windows Update subsystem.

I meant that Microsoft might have snuck something else into the update too - some kernel hooks to prevent you from doing immoral things like listening to music or watching DVDs in high-resolution.  You know, the sort of patch that you'd never agree to installing voluntarily so they stuffed it into IE7...

[Aridas]

I'm not sure that'd fly well with 98% of the world, and besides, isn't there already DRM for that?

[Tapewolf]

I'm not sure that'd fly well with 98% of the world, and besides, isn't there already DRM for that?

Yes, well they had to issue a patch to fix part of the DRM subsystem last week IIRC.

[Alondro]

Dammit Jim!  I'm a geneticist, not a computer technician!  Seriously, I haven'y got a clue about any of this, but I figured I'll wait until everybody finds the IE7 bugs for me before trying to update.  My laptop runs slowly and IE freezes occaisionally as it is, and I've done multiple scans for viruses and spyware.  I'm sure something's wrong somewhere, but I have backups of everything important on zip-discs, so if I have to do a complete reformat or re-installation, I'm covered. 

[Aridas]

Dammit Jim! I'm a geneticist, not a computer technician! Seriously, I haven'y got a clue about any of this, but I figured I'll wait until everybody finds the IE7 bugs for me before trying to update. My laptop runs slowly and IE freezes occaisionally as it is, and I've done multiple scans for viruses and spyware. I'm sure something's wrong somewhere, but I have backups of everything important on zip-discs, so if I have to do a complete reformat or re-installation, I'm covered.

Well, technically it's been available to the public as betas and RCs, so most of the bugs were probably already ironed out. It sure treats web pages better than it did when it started out.

[Cvstos]

I've had nothing but issues with IE 7 in Windows XP.  It runs OK in Windows Vista, but still not as well as Firefox.

[Darkmoon]

Uhm, it's Micorsoft. There is no way any software they've released is ready to use, even after beta and RCs. Do what I'm doing. Wait until the release the INEVITABLE service pack for IE7.

[DigitalMan]

Uhm, it's Micorsoft. There is no way any software they've released is ready to use, even after beta and RCs. Do what I'm doing. Wait until the release the INEVITABLE service pack for IE7.

My sentiments exactly.

*wonders who thought up "Internet Exploder" first*

[ShadesFox]

Uhm, it's Micorsoft. There is no way any software they've released is ready to use, even after beta and RCs. Do what I'm doing. Wait until the release the INEVITABLE service pack for IE7.

I thought that Microsoft killed all future WinXP service packs?  I would think that would kill IE7 SPs as well. 

[skwerly]

I'm grateful for this topic.  It reminded me to head for Windows Update (manually - Automatic Updates is one of the first things I disabled) and set the IE7 update to "Do not install" and "Don't ever mention it again".

Oh, and then I got around to installing the other security patches.  Priorities, y'know.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I prefer "Intermittent Exploder" - truth in advertising, doncha know...

[Darkmoon]

Uhm, it's Micorsoft. There is no way any software they've released is ready to use, even after beta and RCs. Do what I'm doing. Wait until the release the INEVITABLE service pack for IE7.

I thought that Microsoft killed all future WinXP service packs?  I would think that would kill IE7 SPs as well. 

I doubt that. IE7 is NEW. XP isn't.

Of course, last I had read, they'd pushed SP3 for XP back to 2008. It hasn't been cancelled, just... delayed. I do agree, though, that it's doubtful it'll ever get released.

[ShadesFox]

I doubt that. IE7 is NEW. XP isn't.

Of course, last I had read, they'd pushed SP3 for XP back to 2008. It hasn't been cancelled, just... delayed. I do agree, though, that it's doubtful it'll ever get released.

I don't know.  It is more then enough time to push back SP3 further, and any sufficiently delayed product may as well be canceled.  Also, IE7 for XP isn't quite IE7 as far as I understand.  I've heard it is more of an IE6.5, with the true IE7 reserved for VIsta.  Though I've not tried VIsta to see about this.

[Aridas]

I think it might be frankensteined like that...