2022-02-21 [DMFA #2069] It's All Academic

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

I've seriously been under the impression that Aniz had found a woman of ill-repute who would readily accept an Adventurer who "didn't judge her" to be his spouse, rather than having killed May's actual husband. Though, it could have been a case of being "opportunistic" to have gone into hiding with the wife of an Adventurer he'd just coincidentally killed...  But, if it was a case of "opportunity", it might have been less traumatic for everyone involved to have just "gone home" to the Adventurer's wife and then "died" on his next quest - leaving the woman pregnant, but it would have ruined less lives...
Unless, I've just always under-considered that being of "Misery Affinity" he wanted to cause pain for that additional hit of energy. I mean, how hard would it have been to keep pretending to be "sad lost 'Cubi who just wanted a family and to be loved; to have a 'normal life'"?, even if Aniz wasn't the actual version May married, he could have pretended he was and she'd never know the difference (even if she always was suspicious after that). [and despite how apparently it'd crossed his mind, clearly he hadn't given it the proper consideration it rightly deserved.]
Alternatively, he could have followed through with faking his heart attack and let them think he was dead (misery~) or "Cid" could have "left her in the night" and then easily have completely disappeared. Abel still could have wound up at The Academy and he may have never had need learn the name "Aniz".

Instead, he left himself with a bureaucratic nightmare (bare minimum).


Though Abel's explanation doesn't touch on the fact that the reason they don't reproduce with other 'Cubi is because usually it's the "stronger Clan" that gains a new member. Which adds on another element to the behaviour...
(and it makes sense that the child-bearing 'Cubi can pull this off with (arguably) less ethical concerns - they may technically have as many children as they can tolerate bearing/as many as their Clan will allow and the paternal donor will never know what he's missing)

[Tapewolf]

Instead, he left himself with a bureaucratic nightmare (bare minimum).

I don't think we really know the circumstances of Aniz killing Cid.  He doesn't refer to it as 'murder', which I'd have thought would be a nice emotionally-loaded term.  This might just be racism (i.e. he was only a Being, they don't count as 'murder' because they're just cattle), but it might also have been self-defence in that Cid tried to murder him over his head-wings.
That said, the physical similarity implies that it was premeditated and therefore only excusable by reason of insanity (which to be fair, he had more than his fair share of).

Killing Hennya was the crowning piece of the nightmare and that wasn't intended any more than Regina intended to kill Wildy's mother.  Abel does refer to this as 'murder' even though it clearly freaked Aniz out nearly as much as the others.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

The "bureaucratic nightmare" I was referring to was after killing Hennya he was panickily trying to remember some sort of "law" which would presumably have legitimized his actions, but was already something he hadn't planned on and therefor would have preferred not to have done. Additionally, after these actions he wasn't permitted to enroll any more children into The Academy.

Had he chosen a different path ("confessing to being an Incubus" and reestablishing a new family dynamic, or leaving undetected (with or without Abel at that point)) rather than being so determined for twentyfive years that when the time came that he needed to be a drama queen... his son wouldn't hate him, he wouldn't have to explain himself to Zinvth's authorities, and Fa'Lina wouldn't have placed a moratorium over enrolling any more of his children.
(like, just imagine if he'd successfully managed to re-establish is Clan, full of children who all hate him... and one day one of them manages to Ascend and block him from the Clan)

[ProfesseurRenard]

(like, just imagine if he'd successfully managed to re-establish is Clan, full of children who all hate him... and one day one of them manages to Ascend and block him from the Clan)

That would be quite the irony, no?

[Nightmask]

It'd actually be easier to rebuild a clan, at least purely from a reproductive standpoint, as long as you've got fertile males.  A fertile female is going to only be having (usually) one child at a time whereas an active male could have dozens or even hundreds of pregnant females around to provide new members.  Unless the concern is about ensuring that they're raised properly rather than scattered around and potentially outing your scheme to everyone (like that RL fertility doctor, he was substituting his own seed for what the customers selected and had something like over a hundred children scattered around the area and only got caught when one of the children started doing a DNA search for relatives).

[ProfesseurRenard]

It'd actually be easier to rebuild a clan, at least purely from a reproductive standpoint, as long as you've got fertile males.  A fertile female is going to only be having (usually) one child at a time whereas an active male could have dozens or even hundreds of pregnant females around to provide new members.  Unless the concern is about ensuring that they're raised properly rather than scattered around and potentially outing your scheme to everyone (like that RL fertility doctor, he was substituting his own seed for what the customers selected and had something like over a hundred children scattered around the area and only got caught when one of the children started doing a DNA search for relatives).

At least Aniz's motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

[Nightmask]

It'd actually be easier to rebuild a clan, at least purely from a reproductive standpoint, as long as you've got fertile males.  A fertile female is going to only be having (usually) one child at a time whereas an active male could have dozens or even hundreds of pregnant females around to provide new members.  Unless the concern is about ensuring that they're raised properly rather than scattered around and potentially outing your scheme to everyone (like that RL fertility doctor, he was substituting his own seed for what the customers selected and had something like over a hundred children scattered around the area and only got caught when one of the children started doing a DNA search for relatives).

At least Aniz's motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

I believe he was a narcissist, felt his seed superior to anyone else's and used the business as a cover to produce many offspring that he wouldn't have to foot the bill for.  Just like the cuckoo placing its eggs in other birds' nests except he was engaging in basically replacing the chosen father's seed with his own.  I hate to think of all the grief it brought particularly to the men that it might have been their only chance to have children only to have it stolen by a narcissist.  That it put all of them at risk of incest having so many half-brothers and sisters in the same area (as it's a known phenomenon that siblings raised apart can generate inappropriate attractions) seems to have been nothing he cared about.  Nor did he seem to care about his lies depriving them of the real medical histories that they deserved.

[The One Guy]

At least Aniz's motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

I can relate to the guy, honestly.  Though I have no desire to have a relationship or raise kids, I still have the instinctual evolutionary desire to pass me genes on to the next generation.  Were I both in the position to be able to do so and of a weaker morality/empathy, I could see myself doing the same thing.  As is, I'm strongly considering donating to a sperm bank.

[Nightmask]

At least Aniz's motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

I can relate to the guy, honestly.  Though I have no desire to have a relationship or raise kids, I still have the instinctual evolutionary desire to pass me genes on to the next generation.  Were I both in the position to be able to do so and of a weaker morality/empathy, I could see myself doing the same thing.  As is, I'm strongly considering donating to a sperm bank.

Yes it's certainly not hard to relate, wanting to have offspring even if you don't get to raise them.  Too many men running around 'donating' and leaving single mothers to take care of their dozens of kids and you're like 'why is that trash getting to be a successful progenitor and not me?'  But at least they're doing it way more honestly than this doctor did it, the women know and consent to it unlike the doctor's victims.  Worse he even charged them handsomely for it at the same time.

[Glenn Griffon]

At least Aniz’s motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

I can relate to the guy, honestly.  Though I have no desire to have a relationship or raise kids, I still have the instinctual evolutionary desire to pass me genes on to the next generation.  Were I both in the position to be able to do so and of a weaker morality/empathy, I could see myself doing the same thing.  As is, I'm strongly considering donating to a sperm bank.

Yes it's certainly not hard to relate, wanting to have offspring even if you don't get to raise them.

Speak for yourself. I'm a staunch antinatalist and have lost pretty much everyone of my blood relatives when I got to be 40 and still chose not to have children because I just plain don't want to be a mother.
Decided that at 9, kept telling all my relatives (i don't call them family) i would never have kids only to be dismissed because one day i supposedly would just "want" it and now at 40 I'm too old for them to hold out hope on so none of them speak to me anymore or want me around them or their families or their friends.

All cause I don't feel a need to pass along my genes.

I bet Abel probably has no desire at all to have children even if only out of spite.

[Lying Foo]

I had wondered why Aniz wasn't playing the Lothario, depraved as he was.  As a shapeshifter, he could have painted himself as the good Siar Incubus cleaning up his cousins' messes - I don't think most beings would have known the clan was extinct.

[Nightmask]

At least Aniz's motives were somewhat clear. What was the fraudulent arse of a doctor aiming to achieve?

I can relate to the guy, honestly.  Though I have no desire to have a relationship or raise kids, I still have the instinctual evolutionary desire to pass me genes on to the next generation.  Were I both in the position to be able to do so and of a weaker morality/empathy, I could see myself doing the same thing.  As is, I'm strongly considering donating to a sperm bank.

Yes it's certainly not hard to relate, wanting to have offspring even if you don't get to raise them.

Speak for yourself. I'm a staunch antinatalist and have lost pretty much everyone of my blood relatives when I got to be 40 and still chose not to have children because I just plain don't want to be a mother.
Decided that at 9, kept telling all my relatives (i don't call them family) i would never have kids only to be dismissed because one day i supposedly would just "want" it and now at 40 I'm too old for them to hold out hope on so none of them speak to me anymore or want me around them or their families or their friends.

All cause I don't feel a need to pass along my genes.

I bet Abel probably has no desire at all to have children even if only out of spite.

Seems to be a touchy subject for you to treat my comment like it was personal when it certainly had nothing to do with you.

As far as Abel goes I imagine he'd like to remove as much of his father's influence on his life as possible, to be better than his father (which certainly isn't hard) and make the choice about offspring based on how he feels instead of sticking it to a dead father that will never care what he does because he's long-dead and nobody's going to Dark Pegasus him out of his grave.

[Nightmask]

I had wondered why Aniz wasn't playing the Lothario, depraved as he was.  As a shapeshifter, he could have painted himself as the good Siar Incubus cleaning up his cousins' messes - I don't think most beings would have known the clan was extinct.

While it doesn't absolve him of his crimes the death of a leader does seriously mess with the descendants especially if they have no support structure or help.  So Aniz embraced despair and suffering and refused to see that Destania acted out of love to save him and set about the most depraved way he could think of to try and expand his clan and bring it back from the edge of extinction.  Which ironically sent Destania spiraling down as well and perhaps Dan is actually as much a 'cuckoo' as Abel is.  Certainly his mother seems willing to sacrifice him along with his half-sister easily enough and even her own mother.  Destania and Aniz seem to have turned the other into a dark and warped version of themselves, which seems like it'll come and bite Destania on the backside when her 'grand plan' kicks off as his fairly simpleminded way of doing things after being with his grandmother breaks her plan to exploit her mother as part of the scheme.  I imagine they can't have a good back-up to deal with losing the power of a clan leader at a critical moment.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

As a shapeshifter, he could have painted himself as the good Siar Incubus cleaning up his cousins' messes

That's certainly an intriguing premise!
It wouldn't have worked, within the scope of Fa'Lina would have known otherwise and getting kids into the Academy is still the goal for their own protection... but the concept is fascinating!  The sort of scheming which would have made Aniz more of a planner, and less of an idiot.

make the choice about offspring based on how he feels instead of sticking it to a dead father that will never care what he does because he's long-dead

I certainly think that would be the emotionally and mentally healthy way of doing things!
I've never really thought about Abel wanting kids... and despite his age and being confronted with how many years old he is..  I don't think he views himself as much more than a young-adult, so being a parent might not be something he's considered.
If he'd stayed in Zinvth, that might have been a different story though. Hennya would have gotten married and had kids, whom he would have held as babies and become attached to. He would have had an aging mother who he may have wanted to be a grandmother to his kids... As it stands, he has a peer group who aren't procreating and no family support system.  But, as he spends more time in a place where Time more obviously trudges along, and if he and Jyrras progress in their relationship... he's going to be Step-Dad to two children, an uncle to an infant and have a lot of in-laws. And one day they may decide to adopt.
So, I don't know if Abel would necessarily decide to have children, but he may choose not to say "no" to being a dad.

[ProfesseurRenard]

As a shapeshifter, he could have painted himself as the good Siar Incubus cleaning up his cousins' messes

That's certainly an intriguing premise!
It wouldn't have worked, within the scope of Fa'Lina would have known otherwise and getting kids into the Academy is still the goal for their own protection... but the concept is fascinating!  The sort of scheming which would have made Aniz more of a planner, and less of an idiot.

make the choice about offspring based on how he feels instead of sticking it to a dead father that will never care what he does because he's long-dead

I certainly think that would be the emotionally and mentally healthy way of doing things!
I've never really thought about Abel wanting kids... and despite his age and being confronted with how many years old he is..  I don't think he views himself as much more than a young-adult, so being a parent might not be something he's considered.
If he'd stayed in Zinvth, that might have been a different story though. Hennya would have gotten married and had kids, whom he would have held as babies and become attached to. He would have had an aging mother who he may have wanted to be a grandmother to his kids... As it stands, he has a peer group who aren't procreating and no family support system.  But, as he spends more time in a place where Time more obviously trudges along, and if he and Jyrras progress in their relationship... he's going to be Step-Dad to two children, an uncle to an infant and have a lot of in-laws. And one day they may decide to adopt.
So, I don't know if Abel would necessarily decide to have children, but he may choose not to say "no" to being a dad.

The only real hurdle left after all that would be whether he considers himself equal to the task.
Edit: And considering all the baggage we see he carries (courtesy of the next page), it'll be interesting to see how that informs any effort at being a father.

[Nightmask]

Huh, looking back through the archives Abel tells Jyrras and Wildy about his father's murderous actions while visiting his mother's grave, yet this discussion happens as if Abel never said anything.  Should we consider that in-story they forgot about it because of Hizell attacking right after or that author forgot she brought it up previously?

[Tuyu]

Could be. Also, Abel didn't go into nearly as much detail at the graveyard.