2019-06-10 Lesbians

[killpurakat]

Woohoo! I was super excited to see the preview on Patreon be Fa'Lina, because I wondered if she would get a spot, since it has been stated that she had a crush on Mab, and that she was only interested in girls somewhere else (I think it was a Q&A comic maybe?).

At any rate, lovely pic and dress and great representation! 


On a side note: per Amber's frustration with not having the character come out and be outspoken about her orientation, while I understand a creator's frustration over having head-cannon or meta-knowledge and not being able to just push it to the forefront, I respect the more organic storytelling that means we only get occasional hints. Fa'Lina has shown herself to have hidden depths, and the story so far does hint in a few places that she isn't straight, which is enough for me.

When I have a problem with it is when a creator has absolutely zero LGBT+ representation in their extensive work, and then tries to say, retroactively and with NO HINTS DESPITE THE HUGE AMOUNT OF STORY, that a character actually is gay/lesbian/whatever. (And yes, I am referencing the Harry Potter books and Dumbledore here.) DMFA definitely doesn't do things this way, so I'm happy with Fa'Lina's orientation slowly emerging over the course of the story.

Small edit: After reading the description on the Katbox that stated since Fa'Lina is a 50-ft tall, tri-winged, 10,000 year old headmaster and a Cubi leader surviving without her clan, her being a lesbian isn't even close to the most interesting thing about her, I am kind of curious if Seme and Siar even got up to anything with their *actual* forms in Furrae, or if that would possibly have caused too much ruckus due to their sizes, so they stuck to pocket dimensions and/or avatars... my mind is weird.

[joshofspam]

I must admit I never really thought about Fa'lina's preferences. I guess some assumptions could have been made by me considering she did have a clan. So assumptions could have been made by me of her having a male partner at one time to have children before she became a Tri-wing.

But on another level, it makes me wonder how time might effect these creatures as they go through a long life as some of them have multiple century life spans? I could see it going both ways. Some may change. Others might not. For some the changes may be small and others it might be huge changes over time.

Could Fa'lina inherited her clan from the previous leader?

[killpurakat]

Could Fa'lina inherited her clan from the previous leader?

I believe it was stated that yes, Fa'Lina did inherit the title and power of clan leader from another, and her greatest fear was that she would let her clan down, which did come true. Can't recall which comic that was revealed in.

[Schismatism]

Fa'Lina smooching on all the ladies strikes me as a bit much.  However, I could see her providing excessive smooching to Dimanika, just for the sake of causing everyone else to have a brainfart.

And Nact'larn, of course, because she's Nact'larn.

I'll admit, I never really thought of Fa'Lina having anything of a libido.  All her toying with the characters struck me as particularly voluptuous *ahem* and playful, but always in that innocent teasing sort of way.  But now that I consider, and read back, that was always her way with male characters.  I'm almost frightened to consider what she could've gotten up to with Jin...

And... I'll bet Fa'Lina is really scared at this point.  She can't keep the Academy up for much longer, and any partner she might take would likely be a primary target.  There are a lot of reasons to be celibate.

[The One Guy]

Well this came as a surprise.  Not because I automatically assumed she was straight, but because she had a clan therefore I assumed she had children, so I figured she was at most bi.  I guess I never thought of the idea of her inheriting the position as mentioned previously in this thread.  (And of course, there's also the possibilities of her having children out of obligation or having kids while trying out heterosexual relationships before discovering she was gay, both of which I had considered, but thought unlikely.)

As for the overall idea of her orientation not coming up, I'm actually happy with that; it's far better to have a character's sexuality go unknown than having every character's orientation shoved in your face like some agenda-pushing stories will do.  In some ways a character having no indication of orientation even helps to send out the message that one's orientation doesn't define them.

When I have a problem with it is when a creator has absolutely zero LGBT+ representation in their extensive work, and then tries to say, retroactively and with NO HINTS DESPITE THE HUGE AMOUNT OF STORY, that a character actually is gay/lesbian/whatever. (And yes, I am referencing the Harry Potter books and Dumbledore here.)

I don't know, there wasn't any hints that Dumbledore was straight either.  Isn't complaining about Rowling's statement taking the problematic stance of "straight until proven otherwise" that Amber mentions?  Granted you could make the argument that J.K. Rowling originally assumed him to be straight and only made him gay to satisfy social pressures and come off as more inclusive, but there's no way to know for sure.

[killpurakat]

I don't know, there wasn't any hints that Dumbledore was straight either.  Isn't complaining about Rowling's statement taking the problematic stance of "straight until proven otherwise" that Amber mentions?  Granted you could make the argument that J.K. Rowling originally assumed him to be straight and only made him gay to satisfy social pressures and come off as more inclusive, but there's no way to know for sure.

My argument is more that, due to the fact that JK Rowling wrote straight, pro-child endings for about 25 main and side characters AND THEN tried to say a dead, old character was always gay according to her head cannon, means I find her statement and trying to say the LGBT+ community is represented in her works because of ONE CHARACTER a bit suspect. And it smacks a *little* of that old Hollywood "punish people for not being straight by killing them off, heroically or not, just make 'em dead" trope.

Unlike Amber's valid complaint of "People assume characters are straight until proven otherwise and that's annoying," JK Rowling went the route of, "all my characters are straight and have lots of kids, except the bully because he only gets one kid and not many so there's his punishment, because that's the only happy ending I know and... oh, yeah, the LGBT+ people exist... well, so you don't call me a bigot who is saying people who don't have kids are worthless, the old dead mentor character is gay and totally always was."

DMFA is, on many levels, very inclusive, and I appreciate that, regardless of if specific character's sexualities come up, such as Fa'Lina. It was stated she inherited her clan (found the strip!) here: http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1435.php , and somewhere else it was mentioned she had a huge crush on Mab... who granted her the boon of the academy. So there HAVE been hints, and the fact that the cast is across the spectrum in terms of sexuality makes me automatically assume any new characters are (?) until they reveal their interests. In a work of fiction that has a large cast but only ever shows straight relationships and then throws a token gay out there, I'm more critical.

(I also have had this conversation many, many times with fellow friends and random strangers within the LGBT+ community, and trust me, this isn't just my point of view. Actually, I'm usually on the side of "you don't have to hate X just because the author is a jerk who thinks everyone is straight, you can enjoy the story and characters and hey! Fan fiction exists for this very reason!" )

[KathYohneke]

Does beg a question though a  cubi clan is made up of children and so on and so forth from before the clan leader became a tri wing.

If she's a lesbian, how did she have a clan to begin with before the war? artificially? Legitimately curious here.

Otherwise I always got a feeling she lent more towards woman anyway, so it fits well for her

[killpurakat]

As I said in the post right before yours, Fa'Lina inherited the clan from another. See this QftR here:
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1435.php

A clan leader does NOT have to have children before getting power. They have to have family/other members to channel that power into.

And to be honest, I half wonder if Zezzuva is similar. She killed her sister to inherit her power and take over the clan, but she strikes me as the type to not have children. And hell, you can bet that a good chunk of her clan isn't insects, which would mean they would be doomed if you needed direct parent-to-child bloodlines for the leader's power between clan members to work when the insect queen takes over as leader, which I'm betting is not the case given how protective Zezzuva is over all her clan.

Heck, Zezzuva sort of proves this. The clan was HER SISTER'S meaning Zezzuva wasn't her descendent but was still in the clan. And then took it over by killing her sister.

When passing on power, it sounds like you just need someone in the clan to take that power over. It doesn't matter their relation to all the clan members.

Which also jives with what Aaryana said about her clan almost gaining a new leader. That person wouldn't have been directly related to everyone in Aaryana's clan, but would have been one member of the huge clan family.

[Hariman]

Sometimes, character background details remain irrelevant and unsaid.

Others have mentioned hints here and there, but it's not necessary to force a mention of Fa'lina's sexuality if it remains irrelevant. 

I didn't guess this, but it's also not too surprising, I guess. I wasn't really looking for clues either.

[The One Guy]

It was stated she inherited her clan (found the strip!) here: http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1435.php , and somewhere else it was mentioned she had a huge crush on Mab... who granted her the boon of the academy.

Good find about inheriting her clan, but as for the other part, we do know that Mab and Fa'Lina are friends and that Fa'Lina used a boon for her academy, but I've read through the archives multiple times and recall nothing about Fa'Lina having a crush on Mab.

Oh, and regarding Dumbledore, I understand where you're coming from now.  I guess it's kind of a case of any one part on it's own would be fine, but everything together does seem pretty suspicious.

[killpurakat]

It was stated she inherited her clan (found the strip!) here: http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1435.php , and somewhere else it was mentioned she had a huge crush on Mab... who granted her the boon of the academy.

Good find about inheriting her clan, but as for the other part, we do know that Mab and Fa'Lina are friends and that Fa'Lina used a boon for her academy, but I've read through the archives multiple times and recall nothing about Fa'Lina having a crush on Mab.

Oh, and regarding Dumbledore, I understand where you're coming from now.  I guess it's kind of a case of any one part on it's own would be fine, but everything together does seem pretty suspicious.

Found it! I knew it wasn't a comic or part of canon (yet), but I knew it got mentioned somewhere because my first thought was, "wow, a crush on a Fae has to be tough; they are going to out-live and out-power you no matter what."

And I should not reply to these when I'm so tired. I forget to include links (or don't have the energy to find them). My apologies!

So it is here, and if you go down past a few, there's Fa'Lina and it says for any crushes: "Fa'Lina no longer has a crush on anyone. She used to be quite smitten with Mab though back in the day." It also mentions a husband (which would be an interesting story, I feel).
http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4796612/

Lots of good info there! Dimanika's is AWESOME! 

[The One Guy]

Ah, that would be why I don't remember it, because it hasn't come up in the comic!  Although it's interesting that Amber seems to have changed her from "bisexual with female leanings" who had a husband at one point to just lesbian.

[Sofox]

Yes, in that comment Amber does say that Fa'Lina had a husband, however he's catagorised under "17. Worst romantic experience". Make your own deductions.

[killpurakat]

Ah, that would be why I don't remember it, because it hasn't come up in the comic!  Although it's interesting that Amber seems to have changed her from "bisexual with female leanings" who had a husband at one point to just lesbian.

Actually, that one I totally get, because I know people that have done exactly that progression. When a person is under family/social obligations, they identify one way, and then when they realize they should be themselves and/or no longer have to care about what others think/do, they identify another.

A close friend of mine identifies as pansexual, although from everything she has said, it sounds like she is more lesbian (she has strict religious reasons for having a husband and staying with him, and they and her various paramours are satisfied with all the arrangements, so it all works out and is somewhat inspirational).

And one of my former coworker's best friends essentially came out as a lesbian right before her husband died unexpectedly (she had talked it over with him right before he passed; they were going to remain married and friends and just have an open marriage), due mostly to the fact that their kids were all grown up and had moved on. So she was a lesbian in mourning for her husband (very sad; we sent flowers).

Also, re:Jyrras, people CAN change their minds as they learn new things/become more aware of themselves/are more honest with themselves. This feels like what Fa'Lina probably did, maybe after what happened with her husband.

Yes, in that comment Amber does say that Fa'Lina had a husband, however he's catagorised under "17. Worst romantic experience". Make your own deductions.

Actually, it says the *death* of her *first* husband was her worst romantic experience. So, she might have had more than one, or... now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if that was the start of her losing her clan too, the first of many deaths of her loved ones to Hizell.

[Sofox]

Yes, in that comment Amber does say that Fa'Lina had a husband, however he's catagorised under "17. Worst romantic experience". Make your own deductions.

Actually, it says the *death* of her *first* husband was her worst romantic experience. So, she might have had more than one, or... now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if that was the start of her losing her clan too, the first of many deaths of her loved ones to Hizell.

Ouch, how did I miss that.

[killpurakat]

Yes, in that comment Amber does say that Fa'Lina had a husband, however he's catagorised under "17. Worst romantic experience". Make your own deductions.

Actually, it says the *death* of her *first* husband was her worst romantic experience. So, she might have had more than one, or... now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if that was the start of her losing her clan too, the first of many deaths of her loved ones to Hizell.

Ouch, how did I miss that.

To be fair, there's a ton of information there, and Fa'Lina having a hubby is a very juicy tidbit.