Pirate Lore

[thegayhare]

Yarrr



Hello all
Since we already have a thread dedicated to magical lore and history I thought I'd pop in and declare myself the unoffical forum keeper of piratical lore and history. 

Now what might make me say this thing...Well there is the fact that I've had a factual fascination with the aspects of pirate life for years, (long before the recent pirate trend) I've read quite a few handy books on the subject, and I'm infact decended from a natorious band of scottish pirates.

Now I might not be able to answer everything,  like what was Edward Tech's (blackbeard) real name.  Edward Tech is assumed to be a psyudo name taken when he went to sea simply because before he showed up there is no record of him existing at all. But I'll answer any and all questions to the best of my knowlage.  So come on Ask away questions on Pirate life, pirate songs, pirate legends, pirate law and the like.

[Nikki]

Mwaha...
Was there any women pirate captains?

[Suwako]

Is it true that some pirates had wooden legs?
and if so I guess there weren't as many of those as you see in the movies.  I mean, the surgery would be risky, infections and such in that time..

[thegayhare]

Yes
Some might say Anne Bonny, and Mary Read might be considered captains,  and though they weren't they were better qualified for the job then Jack Rackam.  Infact they were the only two who weren't sleeping or drunk when the ship was taken in Jamaica.  In fact they were almost successful in leading the crew to repell boarders.

how ever they were not actually captains

There are three famous female pirate captains Alwida, Grace O'Malley, and Cheng I Sao.

Alwida might be little more then a legend, the Daughter of a scandinavian king in the fifth century she, with several female attendants, fled an arranged marriage to Prince Alf of Denmark disguised as sailors.  at see she came across a band of pirates who had recently lost there captin.  According to legend the crew was so taken with her air of authority the immediately elected her captain and she lead them in raids all along the Baltic sea.  Eventually Prince Alf was sent to stop her.  They met in the gulf of finland and there was a fierce battle.  The prince eventually  boarded the ship and took her prisoner. Impressed by his fighting prowess she Finlay agreed to marry the prince. they were married on the spot and eventually she became the queen of denmark

Grace O'malley how ever has a lot more known about her. Born around 1530 in Connaught she was the daughter of a powerfull chief who had castles Clare island and a fleet of ships.  She was an accomplished sailor by the age of 16 when she was married to Donal O'flaherty.  He died after a few years of marriage and left her with three children.  She moved back to her fathers domain and then took command of her fathers fleet and built a reputation as a bold and fearless sea captain. In 1566 she married Richard Burke and moved to Rockfleet castle in the county of Mayoshe plundered along the cost.  Leading raids against other chieftains and against English merchants and there holdings.  In 1583 her husband died in a raid,  this left her vulnerable because under Irish law she had no claim to her husbands holdings, desperate she launched attacks on the surrounding chieftains  as a show of strength.  the Governor of Fitton declared her a rebel and a traitor and sent a huge fleet to stop her.  In desperation she turned to the queen of england.  The queen declared her a loyal subject and ordered her Governor to release her son from prison and leave her some ships to defend herself and holdings.  She left control of her fleet to her sons and died in 1603.

Cheng I Sao, which means wife of Cheng I, ruled over a fleet of junks that controlled most of the south china sea in the early nineteenth century.  Oddly these Chinese pirates had no homes on shore  there whole families lived on board the fleet of ships.  She was a former prostitute in Canton who married the pirate Cheng I in 1801 and the two built a confederation that at it's hight controlled 50,000 pirates.  Cheng I died in 1807 and Mrs. Cheng moved to secure command for herself.  So she gained the support of her dead  husbands family.  She a pointed  Chang Pao (Cheng's adopted son) as command of the red fleet.  He also became her lover and eventually married him.  Cheng ruled the whole of the pirate confederation with Chang controlling the day to day operations.  In 1808 general Li-ch'ang-keng led an attack on the pirates in Kwangtung waters.  the fierce and bloody battle was a victory for the pirates with 15 imperail junks destroyed and the rest captured.  Li himself died in battle when pirate gunfire tore out his throat.  The pirate raids continued up along the pearl river.  some comunities tried to defend themselves but any resistance was met with swift and savage retribution.  Mrs. Cheng often went into battle with hundreds of ships and up to two thousand pirates at a time. 200 ocean going junks with 20 or 30 cannons each, 6 to 8 hundred coastal ships with 12 to 25 cannon on each ship, and dozens of smaller ships.  In 1810 Cheng surrendered to Chinese government (the government had started bringing in British and Portuguese warship to quell the pirate threat.)  because she still had an army of several thousand pirates she was able to negotiate very favorable terms,  on April 20th 17,318 pirates surrendered, and 226 junks were turned in.  Oh those that surrendered 60 were banished for two year, 151 were exiled, and 126 were executed.  Cheng negotiated that her husband Chang would become a lieutenant in the Navy with a fleet of twenty junks.  Chang eventually became a Colonel and died in 1822. Cheng herself started a gambling house and lived peacefully until she died in 1844 at the age of 69.

[thegayhare]

Is it true that some pirates had wooden legs?
and if so I guess there weren't as many of those as you see in the movies.  I mean, the surgery would be risky, infections and such in that time..

wooden legs, hooks and eye patches were all used in the time yes.  Pirates were all at risk from injury do to storm, and combat. Treatment was often rough and dangerous. especially if the ship had no surgeon.  Often the ships carpenter, or cook would be called in to preform the ooperation.  One such 0peration was described by the surviving patient.  the carpenter took his largest saw and went to work like he was cutting a piece of timber.  he then took a broad axe and heated it on a fire to sear the flesh and cauterise the wound.  Sea cooks in the royal navy were often chosen from disabled seaman.

several pirate ships had articles that every sailor must sign.  These were the rules by which all crewmembers must live, they covered everything from weather you could gamble on board to the division of loot among crew. They were different from ship to ship.   A common clause in the articles was the pension for injured crewmen.  there was a specice amount alloted to the loss of a limb and it generally varied from limb to limb with right arms being more valuable then left, and so on and so forth

[mini-lion]

whats the story behind the skull and cross bone flag?

[thegayhare]

whats the story behind the skull and cross bone flag?

The Jolly Roger was made famous by fictionalised pirates, but it and several variations on the theme were used by several pirates.   The need for a pirate flag were simple.  Because their was no way other then the flag of Identifying a ship from long distance.  Pirates would often fly a national flag friendly to there target to allay suspicion then close in and change at the last moment. 

Pirate flags were often done in colors of black, red, and white to  so that the targets would know from the start who they were.  Individual ships had there own designs to tell the target exactly which pirate they were up against.

skulls, and bones and swords were common, but some pirates were more unique.  Blackbeard for instance had a black flag with a white devil like figure holding a red heart in one hand with a spear posed to pierce it.  But since the Skull and crossed bones (or swords or pistols) was repeated so often since it was a simple design it's become the symbol of pirates

[Zedd]

Hmm....What was the biggest ship know to man seen traveling the seas

[lucas marcone]

whats the deal be hind the "yarr!"

[Vidar]

Do pirates and ninja's really hate each other that much?
Is the decline in pirates over the past few centuries related to global warming (like the church of the FSM says)?

[Toric]

In your opinion who was the WORST pirate captain to sail the seven seas?

[Boog]

What was the origin of Davvy Jones and his related myths?

[thegayhare]

Hmm....What was the biggest ship know to man seen traveling the seas

Wouldn't that be the titanic?

In piratical terms this  would be a first rate Ship of the Line.  SOLs ranged from 4th rate warships (which generally could carry 50 cannon and 400 men) or first rate warships (100 cannon and 600 men)

whats the deal be hind the "yarr!"

Most likely it's a vocalisation made popular by fiction. Or it could be a common sort of war cry to put fear into there victims,  Most people thought of pirates as little more then beasts and the violent cries could simply be for intimidation.  It could also have it's home in the language unique to seafarers at the time. 

"Lift the skin up, and put the bunt in the sack of clews (not to taunt), the leech and foot-rope, and body of the sail; being careful not to let it get to forward or hang down abaft.  Then haul your bunt well up on the yard, smoothing the skin and bringing it down well abaft, and make fast the bunt gasket round the mast, and the jigger, if there be one, to tie"

Do pirates and ninjas really hate each other that much?
Is the decline in pirates over the past few centuries related to global warming (like the church of the FSM says)?

Yes and no

As you can see here there is reason for the rift.  However as you can see here there have been times when they will work together.

as for you second question.  yes yes it is.

In your opinion who was the WORST pirate captain to sail the seven seas?

worst by poorest you mean?

I'd say it would have to be a toss up between Stede Bonnet, Who was an educated Englishman who tired of his life of leasure in Barbados used his own money to outfit a sloop with 10 cannons and 70 men.  He was moderately successful but he had no experience as a seaman and would frequently run his ship a ground.  Eventually he joined up with blackbeard and his ship and crew was absorbed into the better pirates fleet.  Bonnet had no power in the fleet and was often seen wandering the ship in his dressing gown.  He was later hung with the rest of blackbeards crew.

and Sir Francis Verny who fled england after an argument with his stepmother.  He then joined the Mediterranean corsairs and raided his own countrymen. He was later captured by Sicilian forces and spent 2 years as a galley slave.  He died at the age of 31.

What was the origin of Davy Jones and his related myths?

Davey Jones was a singer in a TV music group...

Actually Davey Jones was a pirate who made a deal with the devil to live forever but he's forced to live on the bottom of the deep blue sea.  there he stores everything that sink in his great bo'suns locker (or it might be a sea chest) he gathers up everything from ships to treasures to sailors and keeps them forever in the depth of his locker.  Being a deep sea sailor he doesn't venture into the shallow seas so thats why treasure can recovered in the shallower areas but never the deeps.

there are other legends placing  as a sailor out of cornwall, , as a seacook for King Alfred's navy, others say he helped Sir Francis drake find his way around the world

[Nikki]

TGH, i applaud you for being able to answer all those questions. Here's one more!!

What's with the Parrots? did they really sit on Captain's shoulders?

[Brunhidden]

Yes
Some might say Anne Bonny, and Mary Read might be considered captains,  and though they weren't they were better qualified for the job then Jack Rackam.  Infact they were the only two who wern't sleeping or drunk when the ship was taken in jamacia.  In fact they were almost succesful in leading the crew to repell boarders.

how ever they were not actualy captains

fun little tidbit, they were also the only ones to escape from the traditional piratey end of being hung untill dead and then hung some more. at the trial they claimed to be pregnant, and could not be killed for the innocent life within them. well, its pretty rare for women to have been brought before trial at the time, and almost none of them were canny enough to say something like that- so the judges screamed the father was the devil himself and threw them both in prison untill they gave birth and THEN they would hand them.

they died in prison of various prisoney diseases that happen when your given tepid water in a cold stone cell crawling with rats

Kiss me, ive got scurvey!

[thegayhare]

TGH, i applaud you for being able to answer all those questions. Here's one more!!

What's with the Parrots? did they really sit on Captain's shoulders?

well sailors to the tropics would often bring back animals as suvinears.  Parrots were popular cause they could talk, and were easier to take care of comparied to monkeys and other animals.  also they could fetch a good price in the markets.  The largest and most colourful were often used as bribes or to gain good will with officials.

fun little tidbit, they were also the only ones to escape from the traditional piratey end of being hung untill dead and then hung some more. at the trial they claimed to be pregnant, and could not be killed for the innocent life within them. well, its pretty rare for women to have been brought before trial at the time, and almost none of them were canny enough to say something like that- so the judges screamed the father was the devil himself and threw them both in prison untill they gave birth and THEN they would hand them.

they died in prison of various prisoney diseases that happen when your given tepid water in a cold stone cell crawling with rats

Very true although acourding to the records I've heard Mary was the only one confirmed to have died of fever No one is quite sure what happened to Anne.

Ther are acutaly alot of pirates who escaped the noose.  several had turned kings evidance and earned pardons for evidance against there captains.  Though several others were turned down cause the case against their captain was too strong already.  Others Took pardons towards the end of the age of piracey when the king of england offered pardons to all they could in order to force the fighting to stop.  Some took the kings pardon and went back to piracy... blackbeard was one but he was sneaky.  hell it took the govoner who ordered him dead 3 years to convince the king it had all been done leagaly.

[Dakata]

What kind of animal-souvenirs did the pirates have? (Besides parrots and monkeys)

Why do pirates say 'Arrrr/Yarrr'?

[Rowne]

Oh this is wonderful, well done TGH!  Okay, I have a question ...

Pirates, those piratey blokes, they're a scurvy lot and yet conversely, quite often despite their decidedly dirty ways, Pirate Captains have a grand sense of style.  Where did this come from?  Why are piratey crews designated to boring shirts of stripeyness whilst on the other hand, Captains get tricorner hats, wigs (it's true, they do sometimes), beautiful clothes and so on?

[Boog]

Is piracy particularly commonplace today?

[Brunhidden]

Is piracy particularly commonplace today?

time for the muse meister to step in

yes

i live not too far from the burger boat company, which has made yahts for the rulers of pretty much every country that still has rulers, and has close ties with a certan very extreme security company (which has some technology in use that the military hasnt yet approved of, and specialises in home security devices with first strike capability). yahts and most cruse ships are HEAVILY armed in very elaborate and concealed ways due to the frequency of attacks by pireates, in adition to being mostly bulletproof. otherwise wealthy individuals are often held for ransom, personal posessions stolen, and cargo ships raided. in certan waters, like off of parts of africa and sections of the indian ocean, you are more likely to be attacked by pirates then you are likely to NOT be attacked by pirates. imagine the embarrasment to capture a ship to realise your the third band of pirates trying to rob someone with nothing left.

sure, the pirates nowadays usually carry bolt action rifles and drive speedboats, but theyre still pirates. sure, the yahts and cruse ships are no longer armed with actual cannons nowadays but they do amasing things with electrified wire and new SONIC cannons. oh, those sonic cannons are fun- the small ones cause pain, the medium sized ones can do some real damage, but the BIG ones cause the 'bleeding from your orifices' level of hurt on people.

Is the poop deck really what i think it is?

[Nikki]

What IS the poopdeck?

[Rowne]

Yarrr, ye lubbers know little!

Well, except for Xze.  Xze is a pirate captain and knows much.  She's just testing us.

[thegayhare]

What kind of animal-souvenirs did the pirates have? (Besides parrots and monkeys)

Why do pirates say 'Arrrr/Yarrr'?

thats actually pretty tough Dakata, I haven't actually found too much about specifics.  Possibly reptiles, lizards and snakes. *could be fed on ships rats* but there are other hazards plus it gets cold at sea could kill them.

Exotic cats.  Tempermental though and could attack some one.

Wolves or dogs.  Some English captains would take there hunting dogs too sea with them  so I can see that too.

Ferrets, and other mustilids could be carried as pets.

And the Yarr is explained above in question five I believe.

Oh this is wonderful, well done TGH!  Okay, I have a question ...

Pirates, those piratey blokes, they're a scurvy lot and yet conversely, quite often despite their decidedly dirty ways, Pirate Captains have a grand sense of style.  Where did this come from?  Why are piratey crews designated to boring shirts of stripeyness whilst on the other hand, Captains get tricorner hats, wigs (it's true, they do sometimes), beautiful clothes and so on?

Actually Pirates themselves were a very diverse lot. coming in a mix of every race, speaking there own language, in fact 98 percent of all pirates were former sailors from the navy, merchant fleets, and privateers.

Most Pirate captains were not in fact gentlemen.  Captains of pirate ships were elected in a pure democratic vote by there crews and unlike what most folks think a pirate captain did not have complete control of a ship.  In combat a Captain's word was unquestionable, in battle his word was law.  But outside of battle the decisions were made by majority vote.  Captains had to maintain authority with a mix of terror and cunning.  If a captain was to needlesly cruel to his crew they would vote him out (and most likely punish him,  marooning is the preferred meathod) but they would need enough other the men to fight those loyal to the captain if need be (generally they'd need to get the other important crew members the Quartermaster, the Bo'son and the like.  all important members of the crew with a lot of political power on board a ship) Course if the captain owned the ship legally then he was given some leeway, look at Stede Bonnet for example.  Oddly enough Blackbeard was one of those exceptions to the rule.  He was a fairly well educated man could read and write fluently and in fact kept detailed journals

So most captains were not actually that civilised.  Captains got first choice of the small loots *any moneys went into the company fund to be divided in shares later on* so they got the choice of the fine clothes and finery found on captured vessels.  So the captain gets the fancy stuff (some of the crew probably get there own trinkets according to rank) nd the crew gets any  of the hard wearing practical booty.  Leather and canvas for preference although silks weren't unknown even for the common sailor.

Is piracy particularly commonplace today?

Brun beat me to that one.  but yeah it still goes on.

What IS the poopdeck?

Ouch beaten again
rowne's right on top of that

[Shadrok]

Ok here's a one for you TGH, see if you can guess my favorite historic pirate captain.

Their motto was "A merry life and a short one."

He was a teetotaler.

[thegayhare]

Ok here's a one for you TGH, see if you can guess my favorite historic pirate captain.

Their motto was "A merry life and a short one."

He was a teetotaler.

I've heard of a pirate like that...

he also forbid his men to drink below deck. so if they wished to imbibe they were forced to go on the deck itself and drink in the cold sea air  and wet spray.

I'd say your pirate is Black Bart, Bartholomew Roberts his flagship was The Royal Fortune.  He'd go into battle dressed in a rich crimson damasks waist coat and breaches, a red feather in his cap and a gold gain with a diamond cross.  He fought with a heavy cutless and a brace of pistols that he wore on silk ribbons slung over his shoulder.
sorry the data is so sparce.. I'm realy tired and fighting a nasty head cold... I'll post more later

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Is piracy particularly commonplace today?

Just to put this in perspective - the guy who won the America's Cup from America for NZ, Peter Blake, was killed by pirates on a river somewhere, where he was cruising about for charity. :-/

Pretty sad, all up.

CNN link here

[King Of Hearts]

Hostes Humanis Generis... pirates can be seized by any nation without jurisdictional problems even in the territory of another when in hot pursuit...

okay, something that I want to know about pirate lore...

Why a parrot?

[thegayhare]

okay, something that I want to know about pirate lore...

Why a parrot?

well sailors to the tropics would often bring back animals as suvinears.  Parrots were popular cause they could talk, and were easier to take care of comparied to monkeys and other animals.  also they could fetch a good price in the markets.  The largest and most colourful were often used as bribes or to gain good will with officials.

[Shadrok]

Ok here's a one for you TGH, see if you can guess my favorite historic pirate captain.

Their motto was "A merry life and a short one."

He was a teetotaler.

I've heard of a pirate like that...

he also forbid his men to drink below deck. so if they wished to imbibe they were forced to go on the deck itself and drink in the cold sea air  and wet spray.

I'd say your pirate is Black Bart, Bartholomew Roberts his flagship was The Royal Fortune.  He'd go into battle dressed in a rich crimson damasks waist coat and breaches, a red feather in his cap and a gold gain with a diamond cross.  He fought with a heavy cutless and a brace of pistols that he wore on silk ribbons slung over his shoulder.
sorry the data is so sparce.. I'm realy tired and fighting a nasty head cold... I'll post more later

Black Bart didn't drink alcohol (aka a teetotaler) and was a pirate for only four years and captured more ships then Blackbeard (Blackbeard less then 30 ships         Bart over 400 ships).

Bart's leadership was never questioned, this was in part due him being the ship's navigator as well as captain, and even though he died a pirate it was not by the galows but by greape shot.

Black Bart's Flag

Also hope your head cold clears up soon.

*Hands TGH some Orange juice*

[thegayhare]

Yeah it's actualy amazing that Roberts wasn't more well known just for the massive amount of ships he hit.  He was known to be ruthless though.  not causualy cruel but he'd always avenge a wrong.  In fact he was particularly vicous with ships bound too or comming out of barbados since the goveners had tried to capture him several times.