2017-08-28 [DMFA #1780] - Let me be cruel, not unnatural

[WhyNot?]

I think one thing that muddies the issue of morality, that I haven't seen bought up, is intent. Yes someone, Hizell, ordered a killing and another, the Taur, swung a killing blow but if they both did that in the belief that it would be stopped before it hit, and it was, does it really deserve death? I'd say no.

That said, ignoring the fact that outside of the vacuum of this specific situation the Taur having worked for Hizell has probably, and Hizell definitely has, done something to deserve death, it does seem like this might have been the best outcome, assuming she just erased her physically and didn't destroy her soul which kinda pushes it from sad but necessary to unnecessarily cruel.

I mean teleport her away and she'll just come back and if you keep doing that eventually Hizell will step in, kill her, and start having the next messenger deliver the last one. Now that said the suggestions in this thread and the ones Mab proposes, aside from the brainwashing, are less cruel if they were to be undone when they were no longer a threat, and even on a permanent basis you'd be surprised at the amount of people who take well to being a mirror, but Mab's made it pretty clear it's a one and done situation.

Myself? She was handed her Walking orders. She tried to carry them out. She got the consequences of exercising her free will to follow through with it. Ducky may not like that, but she made her choice. And in Life, you have choice. Some healthy or not.

Okay, but realistically, what other options did the taur have?

Defy Hizell? Dead.
Not get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, also a sister dies after.
Get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, but no one else has to die.

Or do you mean she had a choice to follow Hizell from the start? To be honest, we don't know that. Maybe Hizell owns her and her sisters. Maybe she made a choice under duress years ago. Maybe her kind has worshiped him for centuries and she was groomed to serve him from infancy.

Yeah, given that she outright talks about the cruelty he's capable of and straight up tells Pyro that their pulling for him to find some way to outsmart and 'beat' him, it seems to me that her loyalty is less to him than to their kind and when someone who wipes out entire races for the faults of a few and has, what I'd assume, your entire species within reach? You do what that guy says.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Imprisoning someone in a mirror may be cruel, but it would give them a lot of time to reflect.

But it's awfully close to solitary confinement.

Actually, I was just saying that to make a pun.

It was noticed. Kudos. ;-]

[keybounce]

Imprisoning someone in a mirror may be cruel, but it would give them a lot of time to reflect.

But it's awfully close to solitary confinement.

Actually, I was just saying that to make a pun.

It was noticed. Kudos. ;-]

Yes, I saw the pun

[joshofspam]

Myself? She was handed her Walking orders. She tried to carry them out. She got the consequences of exercising her free will to follow through with it. Ducky may not like that, but she made her choice. And in Life, you have choice. Some healthy or not.

Okay, but realistically, what other options did the taur have?

Defy Hizell? Dead.
Not get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, also a sister dies after.
Get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, but no one else has to die.

Or do you mean she had a choice to follow Hizell from the start? To be honest, we don't know that. Maybe Hizell owns her and her sisters. Maybe she made a choice under duress years ago. Maybe her kind has worshiped him for centuries and she was groomed to serve him from infancy.

No, the first three. I can understand feeling sorry about the lot in life that her sisters might have been forced into serving Hizell. But in no way does that really change the situation for Ducky. She made the choice. And while Mab's methods might be questionable, it always was either going to be her or Ducky, despite how it all ended. You're using Hizell as an excuse and I don't think that's a justifiable stance for her race serving as his personal death squad. You're free to disagree, but I think Mab made the right choice.

Man. That's brutal. But I suppose Hizell has a habit of making brutal situations in his wake.

[WhyNot?]

Myself? She was handed her Walking orders. She tried to carry them out. She got the consequences of exercising her free will to follow through with it. Ducky may not like that, but she made her choice. And in Life, you have choice. Some healthy or not.

Okay, but realistically, what other options did the taur have?

Defy Hizell? Dead.
Not get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, also a sister dies after.
Get killed by Pyroduck? Dead, but no one else has to die.

Or do you mean she had a choice to follow Hizell from the start? To be honest, we don't know that. Maybe Hizell owns her and her sisters. Maybe she made a choice under duress years ago. Maybe her kind has worshiped him for centuries and she was groomed to serve him from infancy.

No, the first three. I can understand feeling sorry about the lot in life that her sisters might have been forced into serving Hizell. But in no way does that really change the situation for Ducky. She made the choice. And while Mab's methods might be questionable, it always was either going to be her or Ducky, despite how it all ended. You're using Hizell as an excuse and I don't think that's a justifiable stance for her race serving as his personal death squad. You're free to disagree, but I think Mab made the right choice.

To be honest if my choices were:
1. Only I Die
2. I Die, Other People Die
3. I Die Horribly, Other People Die, Potentially Others Die to Stress the Result of Treason
I'm not going to lie, I'm choosing option 1.

[Grey Wolf]

No, the first three. I can understand feeling sorry about the lot in life that her sisters might have been forced into serving Hizell. But in no way does that really change the situation for Ducky. She made the choice. And while Mab's methods might be questionable, it always was either going to be her or Ducky, despite how it all ended. You're using Hizell as an excuse and I don't think that's a justifiable stance for her race serving as his personal death squad. You're free to disagree, but I think Mab made the right choice.

Man. That's brutal. But I suppose Hizell has a habit of making brutal situations in his wake.

Well, I'd say a choice like that isn't a choice. I don't think that's an excuse so much as an explanation.
She also knew quite well how it was all going to end. She was never going to kill Pyro. It was a suicide mission.

The only reason I thought Pyro should have killed her is because it would result in fewer deaths.

[Howl]

Oh yeah, just to count back to the matter of miss Fae's game being more important than the well being of her friends, if she really cared about them as opposed to just following her rules, she would have obliterated Hizzy already, whether or not it's "boring" be damned.

Though that's not really an indictment, just an observation and pushing my narrative.

And just on the off chance the rant has anything to do with anything I've said, Mab is Mab. Amber is Amber. Mab is, to what I see, more interested in playing a game than the well being of anyone or anything around her. Amber is writing a comic in which Mab is a character.

But I'm probably just jumping to conclusions.

[Grey Wolf]

Oh yeah, just to count back to the matter of miss Fae's game being more important than the well being of her friends, if she really cared about them as opposed to just following her rules, she would have obliterated Hizzy already, whether or not it's "boring" be damned.

Though that's not really an indictment, just an observation and pushing my narrative.

And just on the off chance the rant has anything to do with anything I've said, Mab is Mab. Amber is Amber. Mab is, to what I see, more interested in playing a game than the well being of anyone or anything around her. Amber is writing a comic in which Mab is a character.

But I'm probably just jumping to conclusions.

Alright, but fae are not mortal beings. They live for eons if they choose, dimension hop, and can do pretty much literally whatever they want from making someone have rainbow hair for a week to making a sun explode.

They could solve every issue Furrae has ever had, but would that be right? Or should they let Furrae sort itself out?
Furrae's fae seem to have an approach of relative non-intervention. Whether or not that's just is debatable, but it is a moral stance.

[Cassi-kun]

Oh yeah, just to count back to the matter of miss Fae's game being more important than the well being of her friends, if she really cared about them as opposed to just following her rules, she would have obliterated Hizzy already, whether or not it's "boring" be damned.

I think it's more related to her trying to get a revolution started versus being the entire revolution all by herself.

[Howl]

Which doesn't change the fact that, ultimately, she is more invested in her "game" than her "friends".

Doesn't detract from anything else, but it is how it is.

All-powerful characters effectively NEED to have a level of detachment from everything that's going on.

That Mab is how she is, no getting around it without uprooting the plot.

I'm not calling it positive or negative as far as the writing is concerned. It is how it is.

[Alondro]

Imprisoning someone in a mirror may be cruel, but it would give them a lot of time to reflect.

But it's awfully close to solitary confinement.

Actually, I was just saying that to make a pun.

I got the joke!   

[Eboreg]

I completely agree with Mab here, and I'm beginning to find Pyroduck rather annoying. Okay, the force may have been a bit extreme but Mab's actions were essentially self-defense, a concept that Pyroduck seems to have trouble understanding (TO MY COMPLETE AND UTTER IRRITATION!!!).

But let's talk about self-defense, within every human there is a "monster" or basically a gut instinct to spear the big kitty at the cave entrance before you and the rest of your family become kibbles. Those who didn't have that instinct were punished with a personal smiting from Charles flipping Darwin. So let me make this clear: feeling sympathy for your enemy gets you killed! I just hope Pyroduck can come to understand that before he gets pruned from the gene pool.