11/08/2012 [PF #234] - Lost In The New Real

[ChaosMageX]

Judging by what Niall said in panel 2, and Harold's memories in the last two panels, our fox-droid must have had quite the interesting occupation.  I wonder if Niall was about to say Daryil or Dr. Pettersohn in the first panel before changing it to Jakob.

Fortunately, it seems Niall is at least a little more polite than Jakob about diving into someone else's mind, requesting permission rather than demanding it.  Still, even if Mr. Lutlakes has dealt with cubi before, it seems Niall's reveal was still quite a shock to him.

As for the title, it does have to do with page's title, but I won't give away how and I hope Tapewolf won't either.  I want to know if anyone else knows the reference.

But by far the most interesting aspect of this page is the idea of mind and soul synchronizing.  How much do they have to prep the mental circuitry of the android body before transplanting the soul into it?

I think they would have to match the original neuron firing patterns as closely as possible, in order to alleviate, if not altogether eliminate, the cross-contamination and corruption of the body and soul that normally results from a soul transplant.  Then again, it might be this contamination that allows the soul transplant to literally write memories into however they're stored in the android's mind.  The key is preventing the corruption that results in nasty side-effects like mental psychosis and physical atrophy, the latter probably a lot less likely but still possible in androids.  Still, I wonder whether or not they have to prepare the artificial recipient mind to a point where if activated without a soul, it would eventually gain sentience and generate a duplicate of the soul that will be put into it, all on its own.

How exactly are the memories stored?  Is it an existing computer memory technology, a theoretical/experimental one, or something new and exotic that mimics the way in which organic brains store information, in order to make it easier for the soul to actually write the memories into its new inorganic vessel?

[Tapewolf]

Judging by what Niall said in panel 2, and Harold's memories in the last two panels, our fox-droid must have had quite the interesting occupation.  I wonder if Niall was about to say Daryil or Dr. Pettersohn in the first panel before changing it to Jakob.

"Dad".

Fortunately, it seems Niall is at least a little more polite than Jakob about diving into someone else's mind, requesting permission rather than demanding it.

You know very well that was before thought-reading etiquette became common knowledge.
EDIT: for that matter, if you're thinking of Wils, I still think Jakob was at least partly justified in what he did given that Niall had broken clan law in a fairly major way not too long before.

Then again, it might be this contamination that allows the soul transplant to literally write memories into however they're stored in the android's mind.

That's the idea, yes.  With Lutlakes there seems to have been some kind of SNAFU and he's not quite there yet, so he's acting a bit like he's been concussed.

The key is preventing the corruption that results in nasty side-effects like mental psychosis and physical atrophy, the latter probably a lot less likely but still possible in androids.  Still, I wonder whether or not they have to prepare the artificial recipient mind to a point where if activated without a soul, it would eventually gain sentience and generate a duplicate of the soul that will be put into it, all on its own.

That is not an experiment they really want to try.  (IIRC this was attempted in 'World of Tiers' with rather ugly consequences)

It is likely that since the publication of Zezzuva's letters, soul manipulation and/or repair has improved.

How exactly are the memories stored?  Is it an existing computer memory technology, a theoretical/experimental one, or something new and exotic that mimics the way in which organic brains store information, in order to make it easier for the soul to actually write the memories into its new inorganic vessel?

IIRC it's based on a massively parallel array of micro STMs, an interesting storage technology that was announced around '95 but doesn't seem to be there yet.  

[joshofspam]

I just thought of something, considering the soul storage crystal is probably a big part of where the soul is actually stored in the body.

Is it relatively easily to uninstall the soul from one android body and placing it into another functional body or must a body be pre-prep for each individual soul?

(Edit: Wait, wasn't this question already asked and answered?)

[justacritic]

Jakob is looking good in the last panel.

[Merlin]

Whee this is the first I've seen of the finished comic! Gotta say, that colouring style in the flashback panels turned out real well!

[Tapewolf]

I just thought of something, considering the soul storage crystal is probably a big part of where the soul is actually stored in the body.
(Edit: Wait, wasn't this question already asked and answered?)

No, it works more like a normal organic person.  If they die the soul detaches like anyone else.  There is a soul crystal in there, but it's an emergency mechanism to trap them if they die.

http://www.project-future.org/strip.php?strip=86

EDIT:

Whee this is the first I've seen of the finished comic! Gotta say, that colouring style in the flashback panels turned out real well!

Thanks.  The sepia effect works in a similar way to Amber's (I took DMFA apart to see how she did it).  I have a refinement that I was able to add the effect as a layer effect, whereas Amber actually copied the coloured version and modified it.  The end result is the same, but it becomes far easier if anything needs to be changed.

[hapless]

Sadly I don't really have much to ask that wasn't answered already. (Tho, what do you mean by STMs? The mag-bubble stuff that like a few other ideas was loud for a while and then faded?)

However, I had to delurk to say that I really should not be as surprised as I am at you two quoting /that/.
Hmm, how to prove but not spoil it... - The thing contains a pretty big reference to Blade Runner. And I still need to buy it.

[Tapewolf]

However, I had to delurk to say that I really should not be as surprised as I am at you two quoting /that/.
Hmm, how to prove but not spoil it... - The thing contains a pretty big reference to Blade Runner. And I still need to buy it.

It is rather good.  Though IMHO he kind of broke the ending of the last track.  That's the only thing I would have changed in the entire thing.  (I bought the LP version, which came with a pair of CDs too.  Just as well, because I couldn't bear to actually put pristine records on the turntable )

IBM developed a technique involving scanning-tunnelling microscopes to record and read back bits in a quartz crystal, the idea being that you could have billions of simply micro S.T.M's to read a bit or a word, all somehow etched onto the crystal surface.
I imagined a 3D block of the things as the storage medium for an AI's brain.

[hapless]

Sounds quite cool - and follows the overall gem/crystal theme.
Last time when I heard of IBM's storage experiments it was something poking holes in a polymer using a massive amount of microscopic needles.

[ChaosMageX]

However, I had to delurk to say that I really should not be as surprised as I am at you two quoting /that/.
Hmm, how to prove but not spoil it... - The thing contains a pretty big reference to Blade Runner. And I still need to buy it.

It is rather good.  Though IMHO he kind of broke the ending of the last track.  That's the only thing I would have changed in the entire thing.  (I bought the LP version, which came with a pair of CDs too.  Just as well, because I couldn't bear to actually put pristine records on the turntable )

What exactly does LP stand for again?  It has something to do with vinyl records, but I'm not sure what.  Also, what is the RPM play speed for the records you bought?

IBM developed a technique involving scanning-tunnelling microscopes to record and read back bits in a quartz crystal, the idea being that you could have billions of simply micro S.T.M's to read a bit or a word, all somehow etched onto the crystal surface.
I imagined a 3D block of the things as the storage medium for an AI's brain.

I would think the problem there is figuring out how to make the device for reading and writing to the memory small enough to even fit inside the android's skull.

[Tapewolf]

What exactly does LP stand for again?  It has something to do with vinyl records, but I'm not sure what.  Also, what is the RPM play speed for the records you bought?

'Long Playing'.  12" 33RPM records are nearly 10 times longer per side than the 78RPM shellac records they replaced. Most of the 78s I've come across were under 3 minutes, a microgroove record can run to about 28 minutes or so, though the quality is lower the more densely-packed the grooves are.
In actual fact, what Threshold and Arjen Lucassen did on their albums was split them over two 180g discs which run to about 17 minutes per side at higher quality.   Had it been pressed 30 years ago it would probably have been put on a single disc.

I would think the problem there is figuring out how to make the device for reading and writing to the memory small enough to even fit inside the android's skull.

That, I think was what IBM were doing - they had found a way to create a read-write device about the size of a transistor in an IC.  Clearly that hasn't made it into production so there must have been some problem.

[Tapewolf]

I thought it might be worth mentioning that Niall's dialogue was reworked slightly in panel 4.  Originally he said something like "Sorry, just checking your memories are intact".  In view of the comparatively recent revelation that thought-reading is kind of taboo it seemed worth changing.  Again, with regard to Jakob in the earlier parts of the story it should be borne in mind that they were written long before that became clear...

[mithril]

pretty sure that the oriingal idea 0f using Scanning Tunneling Microscopy didn't pan out because they couldn't figure out how to shrink the power supply of the device. that kind of molecule scale manipulation requires a massive amount of energy to do. there is also the fact that reading the result would require a device the size of a compact car, even today.
though improvement in STM techniques did allow for the creation of the now ubiquitious high density Flash-Memory drives.

crystal based data storage will likely occur pretty soon though.. some really big strides in Holographic data storage have been occurring. it stored data as optical interferance patterns in a crystal. you can layer lots of these patterns into a single crystal, promising huge data density.