Destania longevity theory.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Something has been niggling at me for a while.


Cubi only live on average about 3,000 years, Source.

The exception is for cubi who have ascended to tri-wing status, as we can see from Mink's paper, are much, much older than that.

However, Destania is reported to be 7026, if Amber's post from 2006 is still valid.

Furthermore, we know that as of about 20ish years ago, she still had not ascended, as she bore and gave birth to Dan, and that Tri-Wings become sterile.

A bit older than three thousand I'd have just shrugged off to good genetics, but she's well over twice the average lifespan.

Cue entry # 4 Mink's report about Cyra. Rounded down to the nearest thousand, she ascended 7000 years ago, right around the time Destania was born. (This works on the assumption that the age listed is the age of ascension. I seem to recall Tapewolf mentioning that somewhere, and on her article in the wiki, but I can't seem locate anything in the comic or a statement by Amber to this effect.)

It would seem to me, therefore, that Destania has some kind of special connection with Cyra, something that probably ramps her power up as well as granting her extra longevity.


What if Cyra was pregnant with Destania when she ascended?

I'm not clear on how Cubi ascension works, but I understand it is some kind of massive magical ritual, requiring truly staggering amounts of power to pull off. Light knows what would happen to a fetus caught up in that kind of energy vortex, but I can see some kind of "rubbing off" effect on the power.


Anyway, that's all I came to say. This'll probably be kicked to the Tinfoil hat tearoom reasonably soon.


Best wishes,
Corgatha Taldorthar.

(Minor edit for emphasis)

[Turnsky]

in a word?


SOULS

[Blackwolf359]

Cubi live for 3000+ years. This means that unless they are killed by adventurers they should live at least 3000 years. This lifespan can be extended by various methods that Destania would have had no qualms about using based on what I know of her.

[iceick]

Cue entry # 4 Mink's report about Cyra. Rounded down to the nearest thousand, she ascended 7000 years ago, right around the time Destania was born.

Actually, it states that Cyra is 7000-7999 years old. Cyra was less than 1000 years old when she had Destania and I believe I heard that Cyra ascended at the age of 3000.

[VAE]

Yes, cubi live on average for 3000 plus years.
Two things  to think of... one is that consumption of souls can increase lifespan.
second is, the above is an average for cubi, of which even not taking into account the death toll of the dragon-cubi war, plenty die in young age because of doing dumb things, thanks to being much more emotionally driven than other races.

[Tapewolf]

in a word?
SOULS

Amber has implied that Destania would 'tidy up' the subjects after torture class.  That's my take on it.

[Maark30]

I am more inclined to see the 3000 year low end as one that spent their life on the lowdown, not using magic and not bothering anyone.  Tapping the magic well and the other 'mind games' that Cubi are famous for would seem to be the way to increase longevity even without sucking souls.    But this is just a wild guess. 

[LordViking]

Maybe the 3000 years is for cubi without the powers of a Tri-Wing fueling them. So while the cubi without Tri-Wing leaders get to celebrate roughly 3000 birthdays they are easily outlived by the cubi that can tap into a well of unbelievable power provided through the link with their Tri-Wing leaders. And seeing how Destania was the only surviving member of the clan for a long time she had more then enough energy to her disposal to stop of slow down the effects of aging.

Or Amber decided to either make the cubi maximum age higher without changing the cubi race page, or made Destania younger but didn't let it known yet, or something between those two. We will not know until Amber tells us either via forum, rant or in comic.

[VAE]

in a word?
SOULS

Amber has implied that Destania would 'tidy up' the subjects after torture class.  That's my take on it.

And now i'm seriously jealous of the on-the-job benefits. When my mother was teaching at university, all she got was a below-average salary, and free A4 paper. 

I am more inclined to see the 3000 year low end as one that spent their life on the lowdown, not using magic and not bothering anyone.  Tapping the magic well and the other 'mind games' that Cubi are famous for would seem to be the way to increase longevity even without sucking souls.    But this is just a wild guess. 

Nah, nothing to do with that. The way i understood it is that as you age ,you get more awesome powers, but your energy requirements increase.
Eventually, emotions don't quite cover it ,and you have to suck souls (and go to places like movie theaters and public executions, and twilight book signings) or starve.
However when you break some limit in power level, you get the power to somehow get energy you need without needing to do anything - you become self-sustaining and that's pretty much a tri-wing.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Actually, it states that Cyra is 7000-7999 years old. Cyra was less than 1000 years old when she had Destania and I believe I heard that Cyra ascended at the age of 3000.

Not casting doubt on what you're saying, but where are you drawing the "Cyra was under 1000 when she had Destania and she ascended around 2000 years later?"

I view it as somewhat problematic though, since Destania is listed as Cyra's youngest daughter, and Cyra has the statement in the latest comic that she's had "many" children. Sure, she might have stopped having kids for 2000ish years, but there's no solid evidence either way on that score. Plus, her comments here seem to indicate that she likes kids, so why would she stop? (Although her perspective might have changed from either 4000-7000 years of hiding from dragons.

[Tapewolf]

I view it as somewhat problematic though, since Destania is listed as Cyra's youngest daughter, and Cyra has the statement in the latest comic that she's had "many" children. ...  Plus, her comments here seem to indicate that she likes kids, so why would she stop?

As I understand it, that's part of the price of getting your third-wings.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Ugh. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


According to what Iceick said earlier,

Actually, it states that Cyra is 7000-7999 years old. Cyra was less than 1000 years old when she had Destania and I believe I heard that Cyra ascended at the age of 3000.

there was a roughly 2000 year gap between Destania being born and Cyra ascending, and thus becoming sterile. I would think that someone who liked having lots of kids around wouldn't just stop without some kind of explanation. If on the other hand, the theory holds, then there's a very clear reason why Destania is youngest.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

While an interesting theory, it has already been disproven.
Thoughts though relating to the idea: a female cat fixed while pregnant simultaneously goes through an unintentional abortion; a succubus may not be able to ascend while pregnant; a succubus may not attempt to ascend while pregnant, for fear of the child being lost or becoming injured; this would be an incredibly interesting possibility... though it's possible that the child is never born, but never dies - the succubus could then be some sort of eternally pregnant figure head and be able to stay in contact with the child through their psychic link. ... automatic ability to convert another clan's cubi into your own!  

"The Clan of Backpain", perhaps?
"The Clan of Maternal Love"?

Ugh. Sorry if I wasn't clear.


According to what Iceick said earlier,

Actually, it states that Cyra is 7000-7999 years old. Cyra was less than 1000 years old when she had Destania and I believe I heard that Cyra ascended at the age of 3000.

there was a roughly 2000 year gap between Destania being born and Cyra ascending, and thus becoming sterile. I would think that someone who liked having lots of kids around wouldn't just stop without some kind of explanation. If on the other hand, the theory holds, then there's a very clear reason why Destania is youngest.

Or perhaps if the one with whom she had children was no longer around... dead?  Perhaps then she became the mourning widow who did not want anyone else.

[Amber Williams]

One of these days I should probably recheck the timelines on things because odds are 90% of any issue is more me just getting dates wrong than anything contuity conspiracy wise. 

I'll be honest, Math is not my strongest feature and so dates and numbers tend to completely stomp my brain.  So I should mention to folks to keep in mind that more than likely what has happened is the creator is a doofus who got dates mixed up.

[Turnsky]

  So I should mention to folks to keep in mind that more than likely what has happened is the creator is a doofus who got dates mixed up.

But your fans are incapable of seeing you do wrong. 

[LoneHowler]

The average life span of a human being can range from 60-80 years depending on the country a person lives in. But we know that a human can get over 100 years in age

I'm thinking that perhaps the average lifespan may have increased since the introduction of the acadimy and a safe place for a cubi to hide and not get in trouble with beings

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

The average life span of a human being can range from 60-80 years depending on the country a person lives in. But we know that a human can get over 100 years in age

I'm thinking that perhaps the average lifespan may have increased since the introduction of the acadimy and a safe place for a cubi to hide and not get in trouble with beings

And if the average lifespan of a human is 60-80 years and you meet someone who is 170...........?


Besides, average lifespan is usually given for natural deaths, not "being cut in half by a psycho with an axe"

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

One of these days I should probably recheck the timelines on things because odds are 90% of any issue is more me just getting dates wrong than anything contuity conspiracy wise. 

I'll be honest, Math is not my strongest feature and so dates and numbers tend to completely stomp my brain.  So I should mention to folks to keep in mind that more than likely what has happened is the creator is a doofus who got dates mixed up.

My recommendation is making up a visual timeline for yourself and handy referencesheets/postit-notes attached (with ages and the like).

[Anker Steadfast]

I believe it was mentioned somewhere that Demons and Magicians had other ways to extend their lifespans, than sucking souls.
Maybe Destania used some of those as well, in order to keep a low profile ?


As for a Preggie Tri-wing, more clan affinities seems in order !!

"Clan of Cravings"
"Clan of Moodswings"
"Clan of Morning Sickness"
"Clan of the Bellywhompers"

And so on.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

"Clan of Child Lost"

vs.

"Clan of Good Delivery"
(though the above is already taken by the "Humour" Affinity; they're almost all comedians.)

[Maark30]

I don't know, "Clan of Good Delivery" would be a great name for an offshoot of Jin Clan that specializes in child birthing   

[VAE]

I don't know, "Clan of Good Delivery" would be a great name for an offshoot of Jin Clan that specializes in child birthing   

Nah it sounds like the clan that has founded FedEx... hmm, maybe not

[iceick]

And if the average lifespan of a human is 60-80 years and you meet someone who is 170...........?


Besides, average lifespan is usually given for natural deaths, not "being cut in half by a psycho with an axe"

Not true, in midevil times, the average life span was only 30 years not because people naturally died young, but because most men died in their twenties in battle and be outlived by their wives.

[Sienna Maiu - M T]

And if the average lifespan of a human is 60-80 years and you meet someone who is 170...........?


Besides, average lifespan is usually given for natural deaths, not "being cut in half by a psycho with an axe"

Not true, in midevil times, the average life span was only 30 years not because people naturally died young, but because most men died in their twenties in battle and be outlived by their wives.

Well, I don't think it's quite so cut-and-dry as that, but you've got the right idea.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Not true, in midevil times, the average life span was only 30 years not because people naturally died young, but because most men died in their twenties in battle and be outlived by their wives.

*shakes head* simply not true. Look up your fill of sieges or battles during the crusades. Death rates of 7 percent of the losing army was considered high. Most armies crumbled due to desertion, and death by disease of various stripes *massively* outpaced death by battle. Life expectancies were skewed low, not from battle death, but from infant mortality, which can wreck your average lifespan if a whole lot of people are dying at one month old or so.

[Naldru]

Farming, fishing, and mining were also major occupations and they are extremely dangerous.  People like Dickens pointed out how dangerous life was in the factories but it was actually much safer than staying in the countryside.  Add disease and women dying in childbirth and it really drops the figures on life expectancy..

[killpurakat]

Feeling depressed about finals (if I'm 30% above the average, why is the prof giving me crap about trying for a higher grade? He shouldn't be expecting not to curve at all when as is, 80% of the students would fail!), so I'm going to contribute in an effort to feel validation of my knowledge reservoir. Beware, actual application of science ahead.


In the Clan Leaders mini-arc, it states that Taun's daughter teaches at the Academy, ergo is still alive. If Cyra was the last to ascend to Tri-Wing status, then Taun has to have been a Tri-Wing for longer than Cyra, which means her daughter has to be at least as old as Destania (within rounding to the nearest century) since Tri-Wings are unable to have offspring after attaining that status. It seems, at the moment, that we can agree the ages of these individuals exceed the 3000 years listed as the average in the Demonology 101 page about Cubi.

Now, Amber may not be able to keep dates straight (by her own admission), but I see no need for her to admit any error on her part. It does fit if you think of that 3000 year lifespan as being due more to fighting and killing and general accidents rather than because of some biological malfunction that terminates the status quo of the organism. Soul-sucking doesn't have to be the only way to extend life (and I imagine for some of the more positive affinity clans, it's a big no-no anyway).

The Cubi themselves support this. Aging is caused by many factors, but a few in particular stand out that the shape-shifting abilities of the Cubi might negate, as well as the fact that food/drink is incidentally energy supplementation to their systems (if that; it would seem ingestion of anything is more for "fun" and eating/drinking more doesn't yield actual energy the way it does for Beings).

Specifically, I'm looking at oxidative stress and telomerase activity.

Telomeres are the ends of DNA, and they have to be replicated specially for the DNA strand to stay a healthy length, or else you start eating into important genetic coding and the living critter finds that new cells are lacking what old cells have and goes kaputz. Cancer cells have usually mutated past this problem, and many animals such as single-celled organisms and plants also have the ability to extend their telomeres indefinitely with no consequences (unlike us, whose telomerase apparently has a shelf-life and past a certain point, stops working and flashes the proverbial BSoD). With a life-span of over 1000 years, I think it's safe to assume Cubi telomerase functions more closely to the "never break" end of the spectrum with the plants and microbial lifeforms rather than our "time's up, bye!" end that dictates a lifespan lucky to reach 100 years.

Oxidative stress, on the other hand, is what occurs when electrons jump around like spiders on a hot plate and get into things they shouldn't, forming radicals that wreak havoc on normal, functioning molecules. Oxidative stress is caused by any number of factors, but the big ones are carcinogenic substances, UV radiation, and non-functioning pathways (genetic or other) that cause the organism's usually methods of dealing with oxidative stress to fail. These small but dangerous molecules cause damage that is fixable, but after a period of time (say an individual's life), the stresses start to mount too quickly and numerously for the body to handle. Simply put, the organism wears down just like a machine and stops working, aka dies.

With the Cubi ability to shape-shift, I imagine that rearranging all the mass of their bodies leaves plenty of room to dump free radicals out of the body and maybe absorb decent molecules (or other things) from the surrounding environment, and may in fact be an evolutionary mechanism that they do automatically (like breathing) since many other organisms have evolved to allow themselves to deal with the problem similarly. Add in the fact that Cubi don't need sunlight or to eat and you've taken care of some of the methods that form these free radicals in the first place. (This is why diet and spending too much time in the sun can pre-maturely age people.)

(Heck, you could almost explain magic using some telekinetic control of radical formation and atomic rearrangement. The raw power this yields is phenomenal and controlling or directing such power may be akin to "magic.")

I can go on and on, but since I don't have the privilege of writing an impossible test and then whining when nobody passes, I'll leave it here and, if anybody wants, go into more details about specifics in a PM. Sorry to have bored those who read this far, but I like talking about these subjects and applying them to things I love, which DMFA qualifies. If you want to argue with me, I'd love to (debating! *^^*), but I don't accept Wikipedia or other such sources as valid. Google Scholar is a sea of gold, however.

And Amber, if you ever need help with biology, chemistry, physics, or math, I'll volunteer to crank out the science for you!

[Anker Steadfast]

Oh noes ... someone put up a Wall-o-text !!   

The Wizard did it !
I'm sure of it!

[VAE]

killpurakat seems a reincarnation of PantheraLeo.
Which is awesome.
Though, this would imply one would be able to shapeshift wounds away, which i aren't so certain of.

[killpurakat]

Oh noes ... someone put up a Wall-o-text !!   

The Wizard did it !
I'm sure of it!

As long as I can be a cool wizard, like Gandalf. And I want to use my spear.
Did LARP as a mage once (which was, if memory serves, a very trying campaign... the Order of Steve made us stop at every dead bird and recite a prayer), so wizard isn't that far off. 

As for the Wall... go Google "Zero Punctuation," listen to a couple, then try to succinctly type anything you are passionate about. I maintain this is the definition of impossible. 

killpurakat seems a reincarnation of PantheraLeo.
Which is awesome.
Though, this would imply one would be able to shapeshift wounds away, which i aren't so certain of.

No clue who that is, but thanks I suppose.  I'm just a grad student (well, sort of) who loves science with perhaps too much enthusiasm. And I like applying it to situations that normally wouldn't attract it (yes, I'm also a Trekkie).

As far as wounds, I believe the pain from said wound, coupled with the humiliation of getting the wound in the first place and the disorientation caused by sudden blood loss or limb breakage (or worse) would require precise mind control to heal and manipulate into nonexistance. What I proposed before was an evolutionary mechanism that Cubi utilized without their direct knowledge (ie, your heart pumps blood despite that you aren't constantly thinking "keep pumping blood") because this is a maintanance pathway, not something that needs direct manipulation.

In other words, the delay of aging effects is a natural process of the body that occurs in the background whether the Cubi thinks of it or not while the healing of wounds is an attempt to re-normalize the system because of outside occurrences that have impeded the status quo. Kind of like shivering is something you will more than likely do automatically, but putting on a coat requires higher brain functions to accomplish.