[comic] Gabriel, pg.6 [02-08-'10]

[techmaster-glitch]

That's quite the odd look Theo's giving Jade in the last panel...

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

He could well be talking to his figurehead.

Ooh. I hadn't considered that one.

Jade, however, wouldn't make a very good candidate for a variety of reasons. Reasons which are, actually, kind of central to the comic, so I'm not going to cover them in depth.

I will say that Theo needs three things in a figurehead: they have to know the game of politics. Specifically, 1) they have to know the rules of the game, 2) they have to be willing to play it, and 3) they have to be very bad at it. Jade has none of these traits. Actually, she's kind of the opposite.

Well, yes. I do believe that was the point I had in mind, but entirely forgot to add to my post. Whilst she might be a figurehead, I'm not sure she'd be a good one.

After all, as you say, she can see the strings... and, at least some of the time, won't respond to them. Not good in a figurehead.

[WhiteFox]

That's quite the odd look Theo's giving Jade in the last panel...

I was going for a mix of confusion, injury, and irritation. Dunno if it worked.

[Tapewolf]

I'm not entirely sure but I think your monitor uses a 6-bit system with dithering.  If you plan on doing anything involving colouring you probably should look for a monitor that can handle the full 8 bits per channel (i.e 24-bits total rather than 18 bits)

[techmaster-glitch]

I was going for a mix of confusion, injury, and irritation. Dunno if it worked.

It did

[WhiteFox]

DSOF #55

This page just refuses to die.

(Much blithering to follow. Be warned.)

This has got to be the worst time I've ever had trying to finish a comic. I've had longer delays, but those were mostly artist blocks and miscellaneous demoralization. I know how to deal with those. This one was... well...

1) Had to migrate to a new computer.
1b) Had to get my scanner to work with new computer.
1c) Ditto my Waccom Tablet.
2) Had to buy a new monitor for new computer, and fuss with settings. Still fussing.
3) Modified my colouring techniques (added a small but significant step) half way through making the comic.
3b) Had to revamp Jade and Theo's colour sheets. Same colours, different format.
4) Nib of tablet pen finally wore down to the point where it had to be replaced. Spent a half a day looking for spare nib.

On top of the technical issues, the inks for this page came out sloppy, I spilled a drop of ink on panel five which prevented me from drawing a half decent background for it, I had a day of writers block right when Jade really needed to sound sagely, and I still think the colouring makes the comic an eyesore.

On the upside, I think the majority of the technical issues have been laid to rest, and the new colouring process is much more satisfactory. The inking on pg.56 is already done, and most of it isn't too bad looking , so I might actually update by Friday. Maybe. I'm starting to get the hang of economizing on backgrounds, which saves a fair bit of time. There was so much on page 54 that I just hated to add speech bubbles. These days I add the bubbles before colouring the background, and I'm mindful of which panels are going to be just full of text (IE, panel 4). Theres been a few little tricks I've picked up too, like taking advantage of opacity setting on the Paint Bucket tool (very useful for colour tinting Theo's wings).

Colour has to be my biggest problem right now. Not so much the process itself, mind you, but getting a decent pallet together. The first four panels of #55 are such a mess; why did I give Theo red and yellow wings while Jade was right behind him? Was giving Theo white arms really a good idea, since the rest of him and his outfit is so much darker? Distracting. Confusing. Hard to read the imagery. Too saturated. That sort of thing.

Anyway. Comments and critiques would be very much appreciated.

[Edit] Man, Theo's head came out so wonky in panel one...

[techmaster-glitch]

Ummmm....

I think you want to re-check that link

[WhiteFox]

*Fix'd*

I am having a fantastic day. Shiny.

[techmaster-glitch]

Awwww. Jade showing some affection for Theo is so cute I like how his headwings change color during that.

I'm also finding it interesting that, for once, it's the demon who's giving a lecture on caution.


For what it's worth, the colors look fine to me.

[WhiteFox]

DSOF #56: You Know That's A Warning Sign.

And now, back to the funny.

I'm pretty happy with this page. Some of the drawing was a little off, but nothing I couldn't fix. The backgrounds are a little sparse, but I'm experimenting with the level of detail needed for them.

The modified colouring method works fast.

Comments appreciated, as usual.

[Lisky]

besides being very amusing, there are a couple of things a really enjoy about this particular strip, Jade's expression in the fifth panel being somewhere, (at least from the way it looks for me) between thoughtful and mildly confused.  The last panel is also quite amusing... though for some reason, i just keep seeing little text pop up... like in a zelda game *YOU GOT A ROCK* ~du-nah-nuh-nuhhhhh~

I know i don't post here too often, but felt that i'd throw in my 2 cents... along with a, keep up the good work.

[WhiteFox]

...Jade's expression in the fifth panel being somewhere, (at least from the way it looks for me) between thoughtful and mildly confused.

Did you notice her eyes were green?

I know i don't post here too often, but felt that i'd throw in my 2 cents... along with a, keep up the good work.

I plan to. Glad you're enjoying the show.

Anyone care to guess what just Jade is missing?

[terrycloth]

It contains trace amounts of uranium, and he's going to start building nuclear bombs?

[ChaosMageX]

The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic.  Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.

Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?

[bradypodidae]

Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?

I'm guessing that she was using some sort of 'second sight' or magic to inspect the object Theo gave her, and Theo is reacting to the fact that something special about the object cannot be detected by someone with 'second sight' or whatever.

What the special property of the object might be, I haven't a clue. Yet.

[WhiteFox]

Also, why are Jade's eyes green in panel 5?

I'm guessing that she was using some sort of 'second sight' or magic to inspect the object Theo gave her, and Theo is reacting to the fact that something special about the object cannot be detected by someone with 'second sight' or whatever.

True. This isn't the first time Jade has had green eyes in the comic, btw.

The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic.  Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.

Warmer, and not a bad guess, but it's not the iron that Theo's interested in.

[ChaosMageX]

The trace amounts of iron-oxide could be magnetic.  Magnetite is often found in sand and the sedimentary rock formed from sand.

Warmer, and not a bad guess, but it's not the iron that Theo's interested in.

Hmmm...I'm getting warmer.  Perhaps it could be some sort of piezoelectric property that Theo desires?

Flint is a form of cryptocrystalline quartz that is used to scrap off and heat up bits of steel to create sparks.

Calcite can be phosphorescent and can absorb light radiation and slowly re-emit it, or fluorescent and immediately re-emit the light radiation after absorbing it.  Calcite has many other unique optical properties, depending on its grain boundaries.

And clay displays plasticity when wet, and can be fired in a kiln to become ceramic, which can be used for a variety of purposes.

I could tell you more if I was a petroleum major and had to study geology, but unfortunately not, so most of my info is from the internet.

[WhiteFox]

ChaosMageX: Looking at the clues will get you so far... consider the whole. "Forrest for the trees", so to speak.

New comic:

DSOF #57: So, what, you got something against thatch?

I showed #56 to a friend, and he said that the shading made it look like a videogame from the early ninties. I was all like, "Dangit, he's right..." Working on that.

To do the leaves in panel one and four I filled in a light green background, and used my tablet to stipple in the leaves. All of them. Manually. And then went over all of it again with a darker green. I think it turned out okay.

Ferns are fun to draw. Add those to the list of plants I can use to fill backgrounds.

TMG suggested I add some sheaves of light to the backgrounds. Still experimenting on a way to do that.

Jade's wings are shaded, finally. I've been trying to work that out for months now. Though only now do I notice that she's missing one. Fffuuu-!

Comments, as usual, would be appreciated.

[bradypodidae]

I am reminded of the King of the Swamp Castle in Monty Python's Holy Grail, "When I first came here, this was all swamp. Everyone said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built in all the same, just to show them. It sank into the swamp. So I built a second one. That sank into the swamp. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp. But the fourth one stayed up. And that's what you're going to get, Lad, the strongest castle in all of England."

[!KCA]

That rock Theo showed Jade wouldn't happen to be manufactured, would it?

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster

[Tapewolf]

Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster

The dungeons filling with swamp water is, though.  You'd need some serious pumping technology to keep it reasonably dry.

[ChaosMageX]

Well, in the latest page, you misspelled architect in panel one.

And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.

The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.

However, building in or near a swamp is never a good idea.  Not only the ground generally unstable, but the building itself harms the environment by reducing the swamp's ability to filter water and act as a breakwater for flash flooding.

Also, the way Theo and his uncle are using their wing tentacles to scale the trees is very creative.
If there's one thing I've always admired about your comics, it's your creativity in coming up with unique takes on aspects of the DMFA universe, starting with Zu.  The idea of a parrot warp-aci that can record memories is quite interesting.

[WhiteFox]

I am reminded of the King of the Swamp Castle in Monty Python's Holy Grail, "When I first came here, this was all swamp.

That particular scene came to mind at least a hundred times while I was drawing this page. 

I'm in the SCA; almost everyone I know can quote about 3/4ths of the movie.

Almost by definition, a dungeon is underground, so the prospect of sinking into the swamp isn't necessarily disaster

Almost? A dungeon, by definition, is an underground prison. Typically, part of a castle. In DSOF, though, the term refers to any defensive structure where Creatures are up to no good. So, they're not necessarily underground.

That rock Theo showed Jade wouldn't happen to be manufactured, would it?

The rock is not artificial. It's not mentioned, but Jade would have been able to tell if it had been.

And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.

The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.

I'd call that 2/3rds of a complete answer.

Also, the way Theo and his uncle are using their wing tentacles to scale the trees is very creative.
If there's one thing I've always admired about your comics, it's your creativity in coming up with unique takes on aspects of the DMFA universe, starting with Zu.  The idea of a parrot warp-aci that can record memories is quite interesting.

This, in a nutshell, is half the reason I started doing comics. Niven is one of my influences, and a lot of his stories examined... interesting results and applications of technology and magic. Even mundane or apparently simple things.

All of the Warp-Aci in the comic, so far, have unique qualities. Zu has eidetic memory, which makes him an effective and secure messenger. You have to be a mind reader to receive the message, and it plays back quite accurately. To intercept the message, one would have to capture Zu, who can teleport at will, and mind-rip him, which is not a simple affair. The offset of this trait is that although his memory is excellent, Zu is otherwise mentally sluggish.

Wynk and Re's trait has appeared in the comic, but hasn't been specifically discussed. Ntpxl's hasn't come up. Yet.

[!KCA]

And in the context of their surrounding and the significance of that rock, taking into account the latest page as well, I think Theo may be intending to use the materials of that rock as his primary building material.

The fact that it's just ordinary rock with no previous metaphysical or spiritual properties means that it may be easier to apply those properties to it once the building has been constructed.

I'd call that 2/3rds of a complete answer.

The swamp's. . .a quarry?


Incidentally, I like the effect of Theo copying his uncle's wings.

[Drayco84]

Whitefox, after stalking your topic for a while I've finally decided to bite the bullet and tell you what I think. I've been hesitating because you've helped out on my site and this is going to sound harsh.

One: the links on http://www.northernelectric.ca/~whitefox/site/flbad.html are broken, especially the one for the DSOF comic. If you don't have anything for the link to go to, you're probably better off removing the link. Otherwise, it just feels incomplete.

Two: For some time, I couldn't place what kept throwing me off on your art. I mean, the characters look good, and the backgrounds are detailed, but something was off. The first is more of a nitpick, really. The fact that Theo's hands are white, but his face is brown and it's throwing me off. If he's wearing cloves, his arms and hands should reflect that with being slightly thicker of having lines/creases on them.

Three: Jade's tail is consistently missing from the dress. For most creatures with a long tail, it's used for balance. I'm aware that having wings kinda offsets that, but it looks weird for a cat-based creature to be wandering around without their tail exposed. Especially a cat-based creature. You're hindering her sexiness! Mwrowr! (Think before you ask. You probably don't wanna know...)

Four: The more serious part is the wings. I'm trying to to be gentle here, but the wings look like "extras" or even like an afterthought. I'm saying this because the dragon/bat-shaped kind have a large amount of straight lines in them, along with the bird-shaped ones. I'd look up a few tutorials via google and practice a bit to define your style.

Five: I'm not sure what your affiliation with northernelectric.ca is... I'm aware that domain parking and webhosting can be somewhat costly to start up. (Uhm... How much did I pay for all my Dotster crap initially? I know it was $30US initially, plus $5.75 monthly for the hosting... But I forget how much the domain name itself cost...) And, I'm unsure where you want to go with the comic.

EDIT: Six has been removed because I'm a moron.

[WhiteFox]

Whitefox, after stalking your topic for a while I've finally decided to bite the bullet and tell you what I think. I've been hesitating because you've helped out on my site and this is going to sound harsh.

I'll keep that in mind.

Honestly, though, I like to hear what people think, and an honest opinion is always welcome.

If you can't express that opinion without sounding harsh, you might want to think twice about posting it. I did three re-writes when I posted in your topic.

One: the links on [insert URL here] are broken, especially the one for the DSOF comic. If you don't have anything for the link to go to, you're probably better off removing the link. Otherwise, it just feels incomplete.

I don't use the FlBAD site. It's incomplete because I didn't complete it. I also don't use or link to it, so I don't know how you got to it, and I haven't asked for feedback on it in probably a year, so I don't know why we're talking about it at all.

Two: For some time, I couldn't place what kept throwing me off on your art. I mean, the characters look good, and the backgrounds are detailed, but something was off. The first is more of a nitpick, really. The fact that Theo's hands are white, but his face is brown and it's throwing me off. If he's wearing cloves, his arms and hands should reflect that with being slightly thicker of having lines/creases on them.

Theonor's head, shoulders, and spine are brown, and the rest of his body is white. (If you're wondering, he's a capped fancy-rat.) The only time you see this is in the first comic.

By the way, if you think they look good, you could at least say what you do like about them. That's not just for my feelings, either; I have to know what I'm doing right if I'm going to keep on doing it.

Three: Jade's tail is consistently missing from the dress...

I have a hard time remembering all the details and features on a character, and not just Jade. Wings, horns, ears, head-wings, accessories, and markings get left out on a frequency that borders on incompetence (especially Theonor). These days, I have an editing checklist and more definitive character sheets, but I still tend to forget details. It's on my hit-list for things to fix.

By the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.

Four: The more serious part is the wings...
... I'd look up a few tutorials via google and practice a bit to define your style.

Mind your tone, please.

Wings are hard to draw. I have over two hundred reference images, several encyclopedias and coffee table books, and have on occasion sat in a pet shop with a sketch book doing life studies. So I've already done a heck of a lot more then google a few tutorials.

I do not draw stylized features, which is what most guides will give you. It's easy to draw stylized wings from two or three angles, but if I want to be flexible with poses (for expression or action), this is just not sufficient. Guides that tell you how to draw realistic wings either don't explain many different poses, don't discuss different wing shapes (Felix has green raven wings, Theonor has finches wings. Emeline's are based on a mix of a seagull and a great frigate bird), or tell you how to set them on a person's back. Quite often, wings I draw do end up being tacked on; if I can't figure out the right way to draw them, I have to fudge it.

Still... I appreciate the observation. I won't know if I'm doing wings right or not unless people tell me what they think of them.

Five: I'm not sure what your affiliation with northernelectric.ca is...

northernelectric.ca is my dad's space, and he lets me host there for free. I can't recall how much he pays for it, but it's like 15$ a year, or something.

As for where I'm going with the comic, I know exactly that. As for where I am now, I'm posting it to an art forum, hoping to get some feedback and that maybe someone will enjoy reading it. So far, I haven't needed more then a archive page for that.

What I don't know is why you're talking about my site and hosting. I haven't asked for feedback on those since... well, longer then I can remember. Except the current archive page, which you haven't said anything about.

Six: Who the frig is Cameron Rose and why is their resume linked to your index page? That is a MAJOR personal security risk and potential front door for credit fraud.

Again, please mind your tone. Cameron Rose would be friggin' me. By the way; it might be a better idea to notify someone of something like this over a private message, rather then bringing it up on a public forum.

[Drayco84]

I'll keep that in mind.

Honestly, though, I like to hear what people think, and an honest opinion is always welcome.

If you can't express that opinion without sounding harsh, you might want to think twice about posting it. I did three re-writes when I posted in your topic.

I'm hypersensitive to criticism, and since I can't draw, any and all suggestions I make don't have any experience what-so-ever behind them. Thus, since I haven't been down that road, I'm aware that it's easy for me to make profoundly stupid suggestions. And I still can't understand why I thought I was fit to offer "help" in the first place... Although, it did take me about an hour or so to compose...

I don't use the FlBAD site. It's incomplete because I didn't complete it. I also don't use or link to it, so I don't know how you got to it, and I haven't asked for feedback on it in probably a year, so I don't know why we're talking about it at all.

Sorry, found it while looking through the root site. It seemed like it was hosting a few other things and I tend to look around. I also wanted more info on your webhost. Since it's moot, I'll drop it.

Theonor's head, shoulders, and spine are brown, and the rest of his body is white. (If you're wondering, he's a capped fancy-rat.) The only time you see this is in the first comic.

By the way, if you think they look good, you could at least say what you do like about them. That's not just for my feelings, either; I have to know what I'm doing right if I'm going to keep on doing it.

Ohhhhhh... Whoops. As for the things you do well, I'm referring to things like shading, muscle tone, the fact that you can see the grain of the bark on the trees. (And in the latest, those leave do look fairly realistic.) Sure, it looks kinda like a remade Sierra game, but I've seen worse. And since I can't draw, I just keep reminding myself that it'd look far worse if I tried.

By the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.

While I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday and I regularly view a large number of webcomics, I tend to easily forget names unless the comic uses it a lot. Heck, some days it's a wonder I remember my own. So, don't take this personally and I DON'T expect a response to this, but... Who's Felix, again?

Mind your tone, please.

Wings are hard to draw. I have over two hundred reference images, several encyclopedias and coffee table books, and have on occasion sat in a pet shop with a sketch book doing life studies. So I've already done a heck of a lot more then google a few tutorials.

I do not draw stylized features, which is what most guides will give you. It's easy to draw stylized wings from two or three angles, but if I want to be flexible with poses (for expression or action), this is just not sufficient. Guides that tell you how to draw realistic wings either don't explain many different poses, don't discuss different wing shapes (Felix has green raven wings, Theonor has finches wings. Emeline's are based on a mix of a seagull and a great frigate bird), or tell you how to set them on a person's back. Quite often, wings I draw do end up being tacked on; if I can't figure out the right way to draw them, I have to fudge it.

Still... I appreciate the observation. I won't know if I'm doing wings right or not unless people tell me what they think of them.

I tried! Dang, I tried! I had a hunch it was a weak point, artist's sunburn, and/or raw nerve and I tried to avoid sounding like a jerk. (That last line really blew it, which I see now...) If you've checked encyclopedias, then you obviously have a number of anatomical references. I'll STHU now.

Okay, I'm feeling less angry and up to continuing to make an ass of myself...

northernelectric.ca is my dad's space, and he lets me host there for free. I can't recall how much he pays for it, but it's like 15$ a year, or something.

As for where I'm going with the comic, I know exactly that. As for where I am now, I'm posting it to an art forum, hoping to get some feedback and that maybe someone will enjoy reading it. So far, I haven't needed more then a archive page for that.

What I don't know is why you're talking about my site and hosting. I haven't asked for feedback on those since... well, longer then I can remember. Except the current archive page, which you haven't said anything about.

........ Okay, now I'm tempted to ask where your dad hosts at, but it's probably something special that not just anyone can get. (I already told you MY costs so... Yeah...) The only thing the current archives could use is an archive index/page. But, since you use php instead of separate html pages like I do (Also known as the "I-hate-myself" way...) adding it later shouldn't be too hard. (I think...)

The First, prev., next, and today links work, and work well, while the background is pretty spiffy-looking. And by looking at the page source, I see... (o_O) Ah-hah! You use tables too! (Although, you may be trying to focus mainly on the comic and thus don't have time to try and learn CSS.) Tell me, did your page design process look anything like this? (Warning, some language.) As for me, I don't even know if my site works in IE... (Little hard to test when using Linux and your XP partition is virtually dead due to malware...)
http://www.i-marco.nl/weblog/images/breakdown.png

Again, please mind your tone. Cameron Rose would be friggin' me. By the way; it might be a better idea to notify someone of something like this over a private message, rather then bringing it up on a public forum.

One: I dunno what I was thinking. It's not an alien concept for authors or artists to use a pen-name... Two, I should've just ran after Superman while screaming "CLAAAAAAAAARK! REMEMBER THAT YOU'RE VULNERABLE TO KRYPTONITE!" Because there's nothing like pointing out a potential security hazard by telling the WHOLE internet about it... Ugh... EPIC fail for me... (Go ahead and bring on the jokes, I deserve 'em...)

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

By the way; Felix has never had a tail. That's deliberate.

While I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday and I regularly view a large number of webcomics, I tend to easily forget names unless the comic uses it a lot. Heck, some days it's a wonder I remember my own. SO, don't takr this personally and I DON'T expect a response to this, but... Who's Felix, again?

He's the short one whom the comic focuses on.

(unless I'm wrong, which is entirely possible. In which case I expect WhiteFox to correct me, as he usually does.)

[hapless]

Felix/Felicia, the one spying on Theo for her clan and playing a school bully...

... if my memory's right.