A bladed question

[Brunhidden]

Recently my best friend who i rarely see spoke to me about his new interest in working out, he used to be the littlest guy i know and loved hanging out with me due to me being a giant ogre for protection, and he suggested i join him in a new endeavor

sword fighting

apperantly its a great workout and gives you those sexy ripped arms and chest that are just so fun. immediately i was interested, my wife shows some interest and may join in later if were having fun, and eowyn seems to love the idea (however we will wait before giving her anything more then plastic)

on to step 2- it seems recently a sword and dagger shop opened up in town. now, i already own a rusty machete, a flanged mace, several daggers, and a staff in addition to my wifes norse broadsword....buuut i don't really want to loose any limbs or decapitate my only friend so i swing by to see what they have for practice swords. turns out i can get good sturdy ones for ten bucks apiece, sweet

now comes the problem i face- the sword shop dude did not have any advice on how to start practicing, nor any clue how to find out.



and so i ask of ye good....er...people, if any of you swordfight as a hobby or as an ecxersise? if not, do you know anyone who does? hearing it from people is better then just going to google or randomly beating the tar out of each other to figure it out ourselves

[Sid]

A friend of mine recently started with Katori Shinto-ryu and loves it to bits. But you'd definitely need an experienced trainer for that, and it's not exactly trivial to say the least. That's pretty much all I know about styles, though - swinging large, sharp objects is not my thing since I just got used to this whole "being alive" gig

And to reinforce what you pointed out already: One thing said friend told me, though, was to DEFINITELY get a training sword that can't cut. Chopping yourself to pieces is apparently way too easy, even during fairly trivial things like sheathing your sword.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Indeed. And get a third party - preferably that experienced trainer - to tell you you're ready to try with the Real Thing, rather than just when -you- feel you're ready.

Sharp things is dangerous. s'why pirates are always short limbs...

[RJ]

Hm... I'm sure playing with swords would give you 'ripped' arms. Yup.

Ah, there's my pun for the day. My work here is done.

[thegayhare]

you might want to look into finding a local SCA kingdom they can probably point you towards a trainer

[Turnsky]

A friend of mine recently started with Katori Shinto-ryu and loves it to bits. But you'd definitely need an experienced trainer for that, and it's not exactly trivial to say the least. That's pretty much all I know about styles, though - swinging large, sharp objects is not my thing since I just got used to this whole "being alive" gig

And to reinforce what you pointed out already: One thing said friend told me, though, was to DEFINITELY get a training sword that can't cut. Chopping yourself to pieces is apparently way too easy, even during fairly trivial things like sheathing your sword.

there's always Fencing, or Kendo

[Alondro]

Always a good idea to train with weighted wooden or bamboo poles.  They sting when you get hit, but they can't slice your arms and legs off.

I have a 200 year-old samurai sword presented to my grandfather from a Japanese general who surrendered to him.  It's still so sharp that just passing my finger accidently over the blade neatly sliced the top layers of skin on my thumb smoothly off, so quickly I didn't even feel it.

And doing a slow swing with it once (not thinking about the height) I cut straight through our ceiling with it.

Point is, playing with a real sword before you know what you're doing can cause you to lose weight in a very unpleasant way.   

[Tezkat]

Hmm... I've never done the medieval longsword stuff, but I started fencing and stickfighting back in university. Many of the latter skills, although we train with rattan sticks, can translate directly to blades--the stick being a sort of fundamental precursor to most hand-held weapons. My aikido schools also practiced with weapons (and many of aikido's moves are like swordfighting without a sword in the first place).

There are a lot of ways to learn about swords, and the techniques are often transferable from one martial art or type of weapon to another. I'd recommend shopping around to see what's in your area. You need a teacher to instruct you in proper--and most importantly safe--technique.

Safety first! Just because something is an unsharpened training weapon doesn't mean you can't inflict injuries with it (unless it's like a Nerf toy or something ). Even a springy little stick can hurt like hell if it hits you. You may want to consider protective gear.

I do wonder about swordfighting leading to "sexy ripped arms and chest" muscles, though. Forearms, certainly. Shoulders, perhaps. And legs. You get a massive quad burn in fencing because of all the lunging and low stances. But I never really felt those workouts in the showpiece pec and upper arm muscles. It might also help to make a point to train with your off hand as well so as not to overdevelop one side.

[Fuyudenki]

Don't fight each other with metal.  Other than rubber-tipped fencing blades, metal weapons no longer have a place in modern society as anything other than decorative items.(unless, of course, you actually are trying to use them as weapons.  To kill people with.)

Low-budget option: get some PVC pipe and those noodle-shaped foam flotation pool toys.  Stick one inside the other, wrap it with duct tape, and make sure the end of the pipe can't go through the end of the foam, or you'll be be terribly heartbroken when your friend is hospitalized by these "nonlethal" weapons.  Some people I've talked to use quarters or half-dollars.  Be creative.

Rules of the game: headshots are illegal(because they can still hurt you badly, even with these).  Hit a limb with a weapon, that limb is "lost," and may no longer be used.  Two limbs or one body shot are "lethal."(to be fair, unless it's a leg and an arm, you can't really fight afterwards, anyway.)

Mid-to-high-budget option: find a part of the SCA or a Kendo studio where you live.  Both will give you instruction on making/buying your own armor and weapons.  The SCA basically uses Shinai that are shaped like western medieval weaponry.  Kendo practitioners use Shinai to hit each other.  They're nonlethal, but can still be painful if you hit too hard.  Also, Shinai have this odd tendency to pinch and tear bits of skin and clothing sometimes, making it look as if you've actually been cutting each other.

Rules of the game for the SCA: see above.

Rules of the game for Kendo: everywhere is legal, call your shots before striking or they don't count, arms and legs are "invulnerable," one head or body shot is "lethal."

Actually, the SCA or Kendo options are good, anyway, as they'll give you plenty of good technique.  Foam baseball bats are more portable, but not so much technique.(I need to make a couple more, though... The one I've got is barely long enough for an off-hand weapon.)

[Brunhidden]

you might want to look into finding a local SCA kingdom they can probably point you towards a trainer

Ive heard of SCA before but dont know much about it, whats the story with it?

Always a good idea to train with weighted wooden or bamboo poles.  They sting when you get hit, but they can't slice your arms and legs off.

I have a 200 year-old samurai sword presented to my grandfather from a Japanese general who surrendered to him.  It's still so sharp that just passing my finger accidently over the blade neatly sliced the top layers of skin on my thumb smoothly off, so quickly I didn't even feel it.

And doing a slow swing with it once (not thinking about the height) I cut straight through our ceiling with it.

Wooden swords is what i was looking at for the 10 dollar range at the sword shop, the heavyer the better as i feel silly swinging a 2 bound blade

sounds like your grandfather got an authentic master crafted blade, durring WW2 a lot of cheap mass produced swords were made so that all the officers could have them, and the only survivors were the ones taken as trophies sinse the rest were heaped on piles and melted

Don't fight each other with metal.  Other than rubber-tipped fencing blades, metal weapons no longer have a place in modern society as anything other than decorative items.(unless, of course, you actually are trying to use them as weapons.  To kill people with.)

in addition to being dangerous, practicing with metal swords would really ding and nick your swords. i understand swords aren't used in lethal ways anymore, this is just a hobby for fun and excersize.

now i have to ask around about rubber or padded swords, i didnt see any before

Safety first! Just because something is an unsharpened training weapon doesn't mean you can't inflict injuries with it (unless it's like a Nerf toy or something ). Even a springy little stick can hurt like hell if it hits you. You may want to consider protective gear.

I do wonder about swordfighting leading to "sexy ripped arms and chest" muscles, though. Forearms, certainly. Shoulders, perhaps. And legs. You get a massive quad burn in fencing because of all the lunging and low stances. But I never really felt those workouts in the showpiece pec and upper arm muscles. It might also help to make a point to train with your off hand as well so as not to overdevelop one side.

Starting off with protective gear does sound attractive, whether or not theres even a trainer in this desolate swamp i live in. don't worry about me though, im a rather large brute and have experienced things by comparison a wooden sword to the gut would be a tickle.

i would like to hear more from you, seeing as how you look like the one with the most experience in the matter. and as a side note the 'sexy ripped arms and chest' bit came from me finding out that was the secret some people had to being buff after they got seriously bored with traditional weights. i would assume the chest workout was due to them using short swords and focusing on thrusting, unlike kendo sticks and fencing blades a gladius or broadsword has a good bit of weight (between 5-15, average is between 7 and 10)and your chest muscles really need to make leaps and bounds to keep up with the twisting you do

[Fuyudenki]

Rubber-tipped fencing blades can be acquired from most sporting goods stores, I believe.  They should give you funny looks if you're not also buying the armor, though.

I'm not sure where to get Shinai, but you can ask the sporting goods people.

Any other types of nonlethal swords, you make them.  Even the "Rattan baseball bats" that the SCA uses.

As far as weight goes, if you feel silly swinging around a 2-pound sword, then you'll want to either join the Society for Creative Anachronism, or buy the heavier training swords for Kendo.

Option 1: check a local university.  The SCA will probably have a chapter with club membership there.

Option 2: the training swords weigh about 5 or 10 pounds, and have slots on the sides, which both provide more air resistance when swinging, and make a buzzing sound when you're swinging it right.  You do practice swings for about 2 or 3 minutes.  It feels like it weighs 30 or 40 pounds, after you're done.

Then, you go back to the Shinai, and wonder in awe as the sword seems to drag your hands through the air behind it, instead of being pushed through the air by them.

[thegayhare]

here is the SCA's home page

basicly they are a group like the civil war reinactors who research and re-create the arts and skills of pre-17th-century Europe.

[Reese Tora]

you should be able to get a shinai... at your sword shop, anywhere Anime or Manga is sold as such (suncoast, import stores, some comic stores, but not Mallwart or Besttry), and there are lots of online retailers that could also sell you one.

As for the SCA... chances are, there's a chapter near you; SCA is mostly about reenactment of medieval periods, all of them, all at once.  While they're most known for fighting with mock weapons made of rattan, they also practice just about any skill relevant to any time period from roman times to Renaissance.  They also have club meetings and a certain amount of roleplay.

Joining should be fairly simple, and they will have events where you can learn about fighting and stuff, and even use loaner equipment while you are learning.  You may also be able to participate and learn without joining if they hold any public events.

[Cogidubnus]

Just make sure that if you do train, you're not training with some yahoo who is teaching his own homebrewed style. When you find somebody, check him out. See who he trained under. See who that guy trains under too. See if he is part of an organization or not.

- just to clarify, you will need to find someone to teach you, if you mean to be serious about it. Do not, under any circumstances, self-train, and expect to gain anything more than perhaps muscle. This does nothing for you at all, technique-wise.

To reiterate, listen to all these folks that have told you not to train with live blades. It's not a good idea, unless you really, really know what you're doing. My teacher usually recommends about a full good seven years of training before you're even ready to touch a real shinken.
A warning about shinai - those suckers can still pinch. Kendo people wear all that padding for a reason - also, careful with the bokken. Those can break bones.

[Fuyudenki]

I wasn't talking about a Bokken, though the warning there does stand.  I was talking about something shaped a bit like a midget-sized oar, and weighing about twice as much.

Bokken are used, I believe, for technique practice where hitting things/people is not part of the plan.

[Cogidubnus]

I wasn't talking about a Bokken, though the warning there does stand.  I was talking about something shaped a bit like a midget-sized oar, and weighing about twice as much.

Bokken are used, I believe, for technique practice where hitting things/people is not part of the plan.

In general, yes. Bokken aren't used for 'sparring', as it were, although prearranged forms are sometimes used.
As far as weighted oars, I would still make the same recommendation. Without seeing one, I can only assume that it's a big, weighty piece of wood, and that hitting someone in the arm or collarbone hard enough will break said bone.

[Brunhidden]

Despite stating i would purchase a wooden practice sword five people have reminded me not to practice with edged metal blades, i believe the consensus is that i am not trusted with knives, matches, or words with more then two syllables.

Okay, i checked out the SCA maps and it seems i am in the 'kingdom of northshield' in the woodland region, the two closest groups are as follows

Shire of Turm an dem See

http://www.sheboygan-sca.org/

Barony of Caer Anterth Mawr

http://caeranterth.northshield.org/

heres hoping one of them has a trainer for me, but both are over an hours drive- the first is also in cow infested swamplands much like my own, and the second is in some kind of beer drenched slum full of sausage

i can only guess what kind of mega loonies i will find there

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Despite stating i would purchase a wooden practice sword five people have reminded me not to practice with edged metal blades, i believe the consensus is that i am not trusted with knives, matches, or words with more then two syllables.

I think the consensus is that we like you, and if you're missing fingers, you're going to type slower. So we'd miss your sparkling wit. ;-]

[Alondro]

Yeah, the sword my grandfather was given is a very well-made sword.  And very old too.  No one who speaks only modern Japanese can read the name inscribed on the base of the blade because that form of Japanese hasn't been in common use for a century at least.

And yes, I know it's prolly worth lots.  But it's just too awesome to even think about selling.   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Part of the issue with selling it is finding someone with the money and the inclination to give you a fair price.

You'd realise that already, Alondro. :-/

[Brunhidden]

Part of the issue with selling it is finding someone with the money and the inclination to give you a fair price.

You'd realise that already, Alondro. :-/

theres buyers out there for anything, the rarer and more obscure the higher the price.

the dude who owns the sword shop i spoke of would probably know everything, he spends his whole day flipping through books about katanas, how they're made, charts of the symbols the swordsmiths put on them, and so on. about a third of his blades actually come from far east masters who still carry on the tradition. another third is movie weapons like LOTR and the rest is a mix of historical reproductions and things that lept out of those intensely drawn 80's posters. all this in addition to a full rack of practice swords and a stack of catalogs a foot thick

hes a fun guy, has a wickedly appropriate sense of humor, and found out that by selling the stuff cheap he makes twice the money... apperantly he has people who are in several times a week

[Cogidubnus]

Yeah, the sword my grandfather was given is a very well-made sword.  And very old too.  No one who speaks only modern Japanese can read the name inscribed on the base of the blade because that form of Japanese hasn't been in common use for a century at least.

And yes, I know it's prolly worth lots.  But it's just too awesome to even think about selling.   

You may want to think about getting it appraised by someone who knows what they're doing, actually. I'm assuming it is some sort of Gunto, as your grandfather recieved it from a Japanese General during the war - is it traditionally mounted, or in more modern-looking fittings?

In any case, it would be in your best intrests to get it appraised. It may actually be worth a lot more than you might think.

[Fuyudenki]

I think the consensus is that we like you, and if you're missing fingers, you're going to type slower. So we'd miss your sparkling wit. ;-]

In my case, it's just that 11 out of 10 people you walk by on the street should not be trusted with a lethal weapon.  They're more a danger to themselves than to anybody else, though.

The SCA will have trainers for you, but anything more than the basics will probably cost money.  They're not that crazy, though.  If you can handle us, you can handle the SCA-ers.  They probably even have little foam swords, if Eowyn wants to get in on the action.

[Brunhidden]

In my case, it's just that 11 out of 10 people you walk by on the street should not be trusted with a lethal weapon.  They're more a danger to themselves than to anybody else, though.

The SCA will have trainers for you, but anything more than the basics will probably cost money.  They're not that crazy, though.  If you can handle us, you can handle the SCA-ers.  They probably even have little foam swords, if Eowyn wants to get in on the action.

that in itself is part of why i like mele weapons and dislike guns. killing in the olden days was difficult and you needed years of training to be effective with a weapon. fighters were truly spiritual and understood their enemies were human just like them. with the advent of a gun you didnt even have to see your target, so much for honor and respect

Eowyn has already got in on the action, she broke a plastic sword to 3 pieces on my head.

[thegayhare]

Eowyn has already got in on the action, she broke a plastic sword to 3 pieces on my head.

You go girl

[Brunhidden]

Okay, a little update.

with the SCA a little development has occoured. seems they opened a branch in my own town. reason i hadn't seen it before? seems to be new, theres only 12 people listed and the person in charge has only been around for a month.... which actually means this started the SAME WEEK that my friend and i decided "hey, wouldn't it be cool to learn swordfighting?"

i am under the group Lub Siochail

http://www.northshield.org/Branches/Display.aspx?ID=8


in other news due to Eowyn breaking one of HER swords we went to the haloween expo in town for its after haloween sale looking for sturdy fake swords for her. the criteria was a sword that she would have problems breaking, did not look stupid, and was not long enough for her to use as a tool in getting items off of high places.

didn't find any that met that criteria, but she did get a hold of a fake shield that was a little big even for me (i am huge, so i have no clue who it was for.... probably a wall decoration) and somehow managed to hold it on her arm. i shortly thereafter found a fake flail and we reenacted the battle of eowyn and the witch king of angmar.

afterwards she abandoned the giant shield when she found a section of props for the movie '300'. equipping a shield more her size and grabbing a spear she then proceeded to attack the other customers.... weird thing is she held the spear and shield in the correct manner for a charge. we got her the shield but did not get her a spear as she was too good with it.

i tried putting a helmet on her too, but she said it was too big, which is weird because all the hats they had were too small to fit me

decision reached- were getting her a wooden practice sword from the sword shop too, she will break anything less and it looks as though she may as well join in serious training as soon as i find a trainer.

[Fuyudenki]

Aww, how cute.  Just make sure she doesn't break you instead of the sword, eh?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

She's gonna be lethal when she grows up.

... she doesn't have to grow up -much-, mind. ;-]

[Fuyudenki]

She's gonna be lethal when she grows up.

... she doesn't have to grow up -much-, mind. ;-]

Clearly, I was born twenty years too early.

[Brunhidden]

She's gonna be lethal when she grows up.

... she doesn't have to grow up -much-, mind. ;-]

Clearly, I was born twenty years too early.

a little early to be hitting on my daughter isnt it?

i can understand though- she got huge melon genes from her mother, demon eyes from me, is in dance class, interest in sword fighting, probably take up another martial art later, has impeccable fashion sense, and likes ultra coolness things like voltron, ozzy, and world domination.

yeah, shes gonna be lethal