2007-08-31 [813] When drinking, never mix, never worry.

[WhiteFire]

but that isn't even the fourth wall D:

Breaking the fourth wall refers to any form of intentionally breaking the suspension of disbelief, not just directly addressing the audience... like, say, a stage hand visibly handing an actor a prop on stage as part of a play.

Well, besides the source I was quoting for that... The way the comic is presented, it does not show any real reference to the poster in the background being a "thought" as far as I can tell, but rather, as a poster in the background which the characters are suddenly standing in front of.

This challenging the reader's disbelief, and breaking the fourth wall, even though neither character directly addressed the audience.

So my interpretation is that the strip is just a "to the audience" joke that is a play on the last frame of the last strip, and not meant to be any sort of literal interpretation of what was going on in Dan's head.

YMMV.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Sarcasm really is a lost art.

[Zedd]

Sarcasm really is a lost art.

And was easier to misguide and back track as well doing so

[superluser]

I have somehow missed the title for this update (*insert Benny Hill theme here*), and feel compelled to note that the title of the song used for the Benny Hill credits is Yakety Sax.

I don't really have anything else to say, except that I don't know how Yakety Sax relates to anything, unless it's relating to Amber's hectic schedule.  If that's the case, then I feel sorry for Amber.

[Reese Tora]

As on why FI can see Dan's subconscious image... It is probably due to the fact that Dan now has a Warp-Aci.  We don't know much on warp-aci but we do know that they can transport from point A to point B and so forth.
So for all we know with a Warp-Aci Dan's thoughts could have been transmitted between the two and seen in wide screen.

What we do know about Warp-Aci is that they somehow aquire the clan symbol of the 'cubi that they serve.  It's possible that there's a deeper link than just a superficial alteration of coloration.

Sarcasm really is a lost art.

Sarcasm doesn't really work on the internet.

[Aridas]

but that isn't even the fourth wall D:

Breaking the fourth wall refers to any form of intentionally breaking the suspension of disbelief, not just directly addressing the audience... like, say, a stage hand visibly handing an actor a prop on stage as part of a play.

Well, besides the source I was quoting for that... The way the comic is presented, it does not show any real reference to the poster in the background being a "thought" as far as I can tell, but rather, as a poster in the background which the characters are suddenly standing in front of.

This challenging the reader's disbelief, and breaking the fourth wall, even though neither character directly addressed the audience.

So my interpretation is that the strip is just a "to the audience" joke that is a play on the last frame of the last strip, and not meant to be any sort of literal interpretation of what was going on in Dan's head.

YMMV.

*AHEM*

Definitions of fourth wall on the Web:

the invisible wall open to the audience in a box set (see also box set)
wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/130/133428/glossary.html

convention of the realistic theater in which the audience assumes it is looking through an invisible wall into an actual room; this wall is determined by the opening in the proscenium arch.
filmplus.org/thr/dic2.html

The imaginary wall through which the audience can see into the lives of the characters.
www.kentaylor.co.uk/die/materials/docs/lessons/yr12/edmonton1/a_level_glossary.html

an imaginary surface at the edge of the stage through with the audience watches a performance
www.yotor.com/wiki/en/th/Theater%20terms.htm

Specifically in a proscenium theater, the term fourth wall applies to the imaginary invisible wall at the front of the stage in a theater through which the audience sees the action in the world of the play. In an arena theater, or theater-in-the-round, all four walls are in effect "fourth walls." One also speaks of a fourth wall in fictional realms, in literature, movies, television, radio, comic books, and other forms of entertainment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall

[superluser]

Or, in this case, maybe Amber just means meta-humor.

Can we drop it or do we have to analyze why Amber is wrong, wrong, wrong and needs to be told that?

(If we do need to perform such an analysis, I withdraw my objection.)

[WhiteFire]

Specifically in a proscenium theater, the term fourth wall applies to the imaginary invisible wall at the front of the stage in a theater through which the audience sees the action in the world of the play. In an arena theater, or theater-in-the-round, all four walls are in effect "fourth walls." One also speaks of a fourth wall in fictional realms, in literature, movies, television, radio, comic books, and other forms of entertainment.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall

[/quote]

Further into the Wikipedia article you quote, which I used for reference:

The term "breaking the fourth wall" in theatre generally means when a character is showing his/her awareness of the audience. The term originated from Bertolt Brecht's theory of "epic theatre" that he developed from (and in contrast to) Konstantin Stanislavski's drama theory. Most often, the fourth wall is broken through a character directly addressing the audience, although the same effect can be achieved by breaking character, through dialogue, or by the characters interacting with objects outside the context of the work (e.g. a character is handed a prop by a stage hand).

Anyway, that is my last word on the subject. Obviously it's only fair that your entitled to your own. I'll be happy to read it. I just won't respond to it publicly, 'cause I think I've bored people to death sufficiently already here... and I don't think that's worth doing over such a hair splitting subject.

I've probably beaten this horse more than enough, but that isn't stopping me from posting this apparently. My will is weak...

[Aridas]

do I have to look up "breaking character" now?

[Caswin]

...yeah, I'm not seeing the blatant fourth-wall-break or the character-breaking, either.

[Sid]

(Working with gut instinct only, it's possible I'm not completely right)
"Breaking character" is basically just a character not really acting like the character. For example, if a character refers to being in a comic or has access to information he normally shouldn't have, then that's basically him breaking character. Mild examples of this would be actually mentioning flashbacks, sensing plot twists (and having no memory of things that happened off-panel), interacting with the narrator, and so on. For more serious examples, read Bob and George.

In this case, Dan and Fi react to something that's in the comic panel, but not actually in their world. The mental image is only projected for the reader (like when Biggs imagined Danielle while describing her), but the characters see it anyway.

Hope that helps...

[Seth C Triggs]

Well, whatever the verdict, I must say I absolutely died laughing at this comic...it was so wrong and yet so right.

Poor, poor Dan...oh noes the awkwardness! Oh noes indeed!

-Seth

[Angel]

Sarcasm really is a lost art.

Only on the Internet. If someone types something like they're being serious, or types something just for the sake of typing more (guilty   ), people take it seriously, and if they say they were just kidding, it seems fake.

Sarcasm in the real world is alive and well and living in my dad.  

[GabrielsThoughts]

ok if the fourth wall actively engages the audience (i.e. information that is known through an outside reasourse/ other reality) and the third wall shows comic characters actively realizing they are part of a continuity within a reality (i.e. a character mentioning somthing that happened several strips ago, litterally using "didn't we do that several strips ago?") then  what are the first and second walls?

[Faerie Alex]

My mom suggests perhaps their being out of frame but not out of sight. Like Fa'Lina and her circle. Or like this, where Hawk's ball bounces off the panel lines.

[rt]

Can we drop it or do we have to analyze why Amber is wrong, wrong, wrong and needs to be told that?
(If we do need to perform such an analysis, I withdraw my objection.)

Nope, in my short stay here I easily see *everything* must be analyzed to death .. I await the "secret messages in abel's spots" thread.

And with that I give the under anlyzed

.. Purdy comic !! Shiny!
.. Joke good, I laugh .. HAR HAR HAR 

[Azraelle]

Having taken Greek Mythology, I would like to clear up something even Freud got mixed up.  Oedipus did not love his mother incestual, he in fact did not even know the woman he had married was his mother (having never known her since his father had the boy abandoned in the mountains because a prophet said Oedipus would be the death of him).  Plus, there is the whole thing of once he realized who she was he quickly gouged out his eyes for his horrible mistake, so he's little more than a subject of cruel fate.  It didn't help that his father was a temperamental idiot that Oedipus killed in a fit of road rage (he still did not know that this was his actual father at the time).

Just felt like clearing that up.  Behold the epitome of ancient dysfunctional families.

Having romantic or sexual feelings toward a parent is still called an Oedipus Complex.

And can we drop the whole "fourth wall" thing already?  It's been explained several times; if people still don't get it, or refuse to accept it as such, they never will.  And the whole thing will be forgotten as soon as Abel's Story updates anyway.

[WhiteFire]

ok if the fourth wall actively engages the audience (i.e. information that is known through an outside reasourse/ other reality) and the third wall shows comic characters actively realizing they are part of a continuity within a reality (i.e. a character mentioning somthing that happened several strips ago, litterally using "didn't we do that several strips ago?") then  what are the first and second walls?

The first through third wall are not their own thing. They refer to the physical walls of a play, things that are really part of the play. I do not believe there is any third wall usage like you suggest at all. When a character refers to information they would not have "in character" they are breaking character, and thus, breaking the forth wall.

I suggest you read all of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_wall (note: third wall just redirects to this article) and come to your own conclusions however. People seem to find interpretations there that I don't quite see myself, so I may be way off base.

[Caswin]

In this case, Dan and Fi react to something that's in the comic panel, but not actually in their world. The mental image is only projected for the reader (like when Biggs imagined Danielle while describing her), but the characters see it anyway.

See, I didn't/don't see that.  It looked like something Fi could literally see.

[WhiteFire]

And can we drop the whole "fourth wall" thing already?  It's been explained several times; if people still don't get it, or refuse to accept it as such, they never will.  And the whole thing will be forgotten as soon as Abel's Story updates anyway.

Oh, I don't think that the entire subject is dead... there seems to be some honest confusion on some people's part on how the term is used. Now, trying to decide if any particular comic is or is not involving the forth wall may have achieved 'beating dead horse' status at this point...

Personally, I'd rather discuss how cute Able is when he is blushing. 

[techmaster-glitch]

I'm with Azrealle.  LISTEN TO HER WISDOM, SHE SPEAKS THE TRUTH ! It's been hurting my head to read the continued argument when it has been perfectly explained, like Azrealle said, many times before!



That is how dead this is!

[nikename2]

Ummm....wow. Well atleast no one brought up the 5th or 6th walls, both of which are too lazy to stand up for themselves. 

Regardless there is one thing on my mind. How was Fi even aware of what was going on. Yeah I suppose it's possible that he was watching "offscreen", but the means of how is what I'm interested in.

[ChaoSynergy]

Stupid Sexy Destania!

[xHaZxMaTx]

Oh, hey, I have a question regarding the whole 4th wall thing-a-ma-bob!


Who cares?!

[techmaster-glitch]

Exactly! Thank you HazMatx!

[omgtkb/tikiman]

the hell is wrong with you people... either you enjoyed the comic or you didn't... if you're more concerned about what wall was broken, then it's not the wall, but you that's broken... welcome to it, now talk more about why you liked about it instead of lingering on something petty...

fricken' retards...

[Zedd]

the hell is wrong with you people... either you enjoyed the comic or you didn't... if you're more concerned about what wall was broken, then it's not the wall, but you that's broken... welcome to it, now talk more about why you liked about it instead of lingering on something petty...

fricken' retards...

You prooved a good point Tiki but I enjoy every part I read other than the full details and welcome to the forums Tiki

[Aridas]

hay guys, stop thinking of the comic like a comic and think of it like a stage, while we're still using stage terms! SHEESH.

[WhiteFire]

I'm with Azrealle.  LISTEN TO HER WISDOM, SHE SPEAKS THE TRUTH ! It's been hurting my head to read the continued argument when it has been perfectly explained, like Azrealle said, many times before!



That is how dead this is!

Wooho! Lets beat this horse some more by explaining how beaten it is! I <3 bandwagons!

[Aridas]

Yes, let's spam emoticons retardedly in place of a more intelligent discussion.