03/09/07 [#759] Feelings

[Zedd]

*smacks Shadow with a hammer*  As in put. No matter who is is with who I'll still keep reading the comic as I have been already for while. Like my mother said..Ride the wind like a cloud....I too wish I was a cloud...they are so lucky..*stares at everyone with eyes like Shikamaru* What? 

[superluser]

All your friends are bi, superluser? :-)

Haw haw haw. 

but they might have been for all intents and purposes just a team duo who mock-bickered a lot.

I hear they won awards for their portrayal of George and Martha. 

It annoys me to no end that being gay or lesbian in a webcomic takes center stage of who someone is.

We live in some very eventful times.  It was just over 100 years ago that Oscar Wilde went on trial for something that could only be expressed as ``The love that dare not speak its name.''  Those who don't want us to go back to those times will latch onto examples of GLBT characters and exploit (in the positive sense) them to encourage further progress for their personal cause.  Unfortunately, that's the way that it has to be in the current political climate in the English-speaking world.

Another thing that you alluded to is the fact that you have to make relationships that fit the characters, and not the other way around.  This is true, but it ignores the fact that the characters often have to be made that way to make the story work.  Had Helen been an ugly hag or unmarried, a thousand Greek ships could have stayed in port.

That doesn't mean that the Iliad (or, by analogy, DMFA) is poorly written--indeed, your characters are well thought out.  But it does mean that you do exercise control over some cases where you might have claimed to have no control.

...I still say that Matilda has all the personality of an oak yacht, though.

[Caswin]

Anyway, I don't completely discredit the Kria / Jy relationship. I just think that she will have to show a very great portion of her kindergarden teacher side before he warms up to her.

I think that for any chance at all, she'd have to totally and utterly convert to nonlethal-kindergarten-teacher mode.  As long as she's in a mindset where she can't help blurting out "I'm good at hurting!" and holds most other lives to be of minimal significance, Jyrras just isn't going to go for it.

As to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...



...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart?  Or is this one of those (I invoke the protection of speculation) "Oh, um, everyone hits Dan with a bat" moments?

EDIT: Why?  Why doesn't the image work? 

EDIT 2: And why has it taken me this long to comment on how much I love Kria's appearance in those last two panels?  I mean, she looks so... I don't know what, but I like it.

[Tapewolf]

EDIT: Why?  Why doesn't the image work? 

Because you're trying to display the HTML as a picture, not the picture itself. 

[Caswin]

EDIT: Why?  Why doesn't the image work? 

Because you're trying to display the HTML as a picture, not the picture itself. 

...uh.  Right.  I knew that.  Thankees.  *Fix*

[superluser]

As to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...

...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart?

That strip is entitled #46: Don't Worry, Dan is Having Fun

[Nino]

Yeah Amber, you're right. Sorry for what I said earlier, I could see why it would seem like a personal attack on your intentions concerning your characters. Of course, it's your comic anyway, so if you wanted to make everyone gay there's not really much right for me to complain then either.

My own personal opinion on the matter is still that I wouldn't want to see a gay relationship heavily emphasized in the comic just because it is trendy to do nowdays in other comics, art, stories, whatever. Personally though, I wouldn't want extensive romantic subplots of any sort to become heavily focused on because soap-opera-type drama just does not appeal to me.

However if DMFA does eventually have one I'm not going to throw a bitch-fit over it. It was unfair for me to lump you into the 'fangirl' category of people that fantasize about bishonen all day. Sorry for that again; sometimes I post without thinking through what I am typing.

[Azraelle]

I don't care about the gay/straight issue; I have personal opinions on the gay "lifestyle" in general, but I won't drag them into the forum (no I'm not homophobic, in case you were wondering).  I for one simply want to see Jyrras end up with someone that will provide him a healthy and satisfying relationship.  And out of the three people for whom he's expressed interest, I don't see any options as being healthy for him.

Dan might have been good for him, but as we know now, he's straight and such a relationship isn't going to happen.  And as we are now seeing, Lorenda is backing out altogether.  Unfortunately, that only leaves the possibility of Abel (unless Jy develops emotions for someone else now).  And again, I just don't think that would be a good relationship for him; Abel has WAAAAY too much emotional baggage.  But assuming that Jy persues him anyway, he will be constantly trying to push Abel into opening up and getting past his issues, which as anyone knows, will only make him fight against it more, and close off tighter.

So no, I don't care if he ends up in a gay relationship or a straight one.  I just want to see him happy.  I was surprisingly broken up when he and Dan were talking on the bench.  Could just be related to my RL relationship issues as well; I kinda sympathized with him.

[Caswin]

As to Dan/Wildy and Dan actually enjoying getting chained to a wall and tortured... well...

...am I the only one who sees him trying to rip her apart?

That strip is entitled #46: Don't Worry, Dan is Having Fun

...or so Merlitz believes.  Yes, I know you're talking about the title.  Even speaking with minimal knowledge about that kind of thing, though, it doesn't look like he's having fun to me.

[Amber Williams]

I feel I should warn you guys that up until comic #74, the ones prior were ones I had John(the original dude I started the comic with) help with...and since he was the coder of the two, he was the one who made the initial titles under the comic.  So I might be cautious in taking the sub-titles for complete canon.

Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!"  One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one.  I really am! ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each.  And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny.  Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows.

[Stygian]

Muscles really aren't that much of a problem, as long as you remember to study anatomy rather than just adding bulges where it seems right. Also, in your case, what with the proportions, I would be careful not to add too much bulk, instead of toning, since it might end up making some guy looking like a treetrunk (not that I have so much to offer in terms of valuable advice here, what with me being a beginner artist and all...).

Also, I've quite often found myself curious as to just how tall the different characters in the comic are. Am I right if I presume that for example Dan is about 5'10" or so?

[ShiningShadow]

I feel I should warn you guys that up until comic #74, the ones prior were ones I had John(the original dude I started the comic with) help with...and since he was the coder of the two, he was the one who made the initial titles under the comic.  So I might be cautious in taking the sub-titles for complete canon.

Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!"  One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one.  I really am! ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each.  And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny.  Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows.

Your right on how you want this comic to go. I never think that people have this perception that if a person is gay it's all cute *squeee*.

I like how this story evolved to something very different and I like it. You are doing something no artist *Okay maybe a handful* do fleshing out your characters making them alive.

In our own eyes we treat each character as a member of our family here at DMFA, and we understand them because we went through them ourselves.

Right now I love what are you doing for character development keep going in the direction you wanted and keep the pedal to the metal.

Until we crash off a cliff and burst into flames (joking here don't smite me).

[Madmann135]

Well... considering everyone in the comic is seemingly coming to a crossroad of their own I can only surmise that the chances of Jyrras finding someone to date right now would be slim.

Jyrras is also smart enough NOT to date his friends because that can change a relationship really quickly and he wants to keep his friends.

I truly think Jyrras must talk to Lorenda quickly and finish off the conversation he started before his sisters and the baby bomb.

[Tezkat]

Some other creatures have fewer fingers as well, like Matilda and the other Mythos in Abel's story, but Tezkat's right, it is mostly based on it being a hoofed species.  It's just a coincidence that most of the hoofed creatures we've seen happen to be demons.

Hmm... true. I suppose it's based on the base animal nonetheless. Both Matilda and Hennya are serpentine, and snakes don't have any fingers. So... the rule seems to be that species' naturally reduced finger counts will be reflected in their anthro incarnations. Then of course there are exceptions like Mikelo, who has three fingers per hand and two toes per foot, but that's probably due to his pedigree rather than his species--normal turtles do have five-fingered forlimbs.

And I don't really think Jy and Wildy would make a good couple, i think they're too much of an almost sibling relationship.  I don't really see Wildy hooking up with anyone really...

Yeah. The thing about Wildy is that she's just such a heavily dominant personality. I mean... her brother rules over a small empire and has people eliminated with a snap of his fingers, but she walks all over him. You'd need to either pair her with an even stronger character (hmm... Kria x Wildy?  ) or just give her her own slave to play with. Otherwise, she's just doomed to be the resident ebil ferret.

And do you know what Tez...You remind me of my brother but so more open minded. Widely open..Like plenty of room for me to live in.

Well, I do like to maintain an open mind policy... and plenty of nice cages for any guests foolish enough to visit.

Other than that, its cool. I can see the validity of the concern, it's one I'm aware of and hope to avoid falling into said pit-trap of "omg! Bishie snugglings! Squee!"  One doesnt draw a furry comic with anime-esque style and an inability to draw highly muscular men(though I am trying to get better on that last one.  I really am! ) and stay blind to the the hangups that come with each.  And while I can't say for sure I personally know the romantic outcomes each character is going to have (I can guess on a few, but for the most part there is a lot of stuff that could happen that might set things off in a different direction), it is my hope that when I get to those bridges, I will be able to handle it with grace and good funny.  Or at least a lot of gasoline and matches...and maybe a couple marshmellows.

A think most of the people whining about gay stuff in DMFA are just being silly (or homophobic). As many have pointed out, a lot of their objections stem from some kind of vague Evil Shounen-Ai in Webcomics conspiracy rather than anything specific to your work. I do think you've managed to create some interesting, multidimensional characters.

The comic has taken on a significantly more serious turn tone compared to a few years back. That's not necessarily a bad thing--the plot and characters are now deeper and more interesting--but do I worry that Jyrras's story may be treading that fine line between comical Schadenfreude and dramatic tragedy. It was cute while he was still in the closet where we could giggle and play fantasy matchmaker, but his life has been a series of cruel disappointments since he came out--the poor guy just can't seem to catch a break.


Hmm... maybe we really do need some "omg! Bishie snugglings!" to lighten the mood. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Dan might have been good for him, but as we know now, he's straight and such a relationship isn't going to happen.  And as we are now seeing, Lorenda is backing out altogether.  Unfortunately, that only leaves the possibility of Abel (unless Jy develops emotions for someone else now).  And again, I just don't think that would be a good relationship for him; Abel has WAAAAY too much emotional baggage.  But assuming that Jy persues him anyway, he will be constantly trying to push Abel into opening up and getting past his issues, which as anyone knows, will only make him fight against it more, and close off tighter.

So no, I don't care if he ends up in a gay relationship or a straight one.  I just want to see him happy.  I was surprisingly broken up when he and Dan were talking on the bench.  Could just be related to my RL relationship issues as well; I kinda sympathized with him.

As someone else mentioned, I suspect that JyJy will be able to step past much of Abel's attitude. I can see Jyrras being good for Abel. I'm not so sure about the other way around, but the possibility exists that Abel will help Jyrras be more, ah, up-front about his emotions. Or at least more able to stand up for himself.

Lorenda, as you say, is an interesting one. I agree, Jyrras needs to sit down with her, RSN, and sort out what they're doing. And I think he's bright enough to agree to disagree, and not lose her as a friend - she's just preparing for the worst, I think, at this stage. I'd like for that to be wrong, but I can't say for sure which way that'd go. I guess we'll just have to break out the popcorn and wait and see...

Until we crash off a cliff and burst into flames (joking here don't smite me).

... and that's when we get out the marshmallows. Mmmmm....

Can we get some hot chocolate to go with that? :-]

[Aurawyn]

I just hope Lorenda doesn't end up leaving the strip like it appears Aaryanna has 

[Manawolf]

I would never forgive her if she did.

[shadow96]

I dont think that would happen lorenda is too important a character at the moment if she did leave i think it would be for more reasons than just getting away from jyrras for a little while.

[Ted Schiller]

I would never forgive her if she did.

I would.  If a half-demon cow with a demon mare for a mother thought she should leave, then, by golly, that's what she should do.  Yep Yep Yep.   

With regards,
Ted

[Sirios Skywolf]

I apologize if I've missed my window for my long-delayed point ( I know I have it around here somewhere!) But I didn't merely mean to make a general statement and leave; I do have a case for why I believe any current gay relationships for Jyrras would be...unhealthy and unstable (Actually, that applies to all the girls as well.)


I'd like to tackle this from a psychological standpoint, based on my observations of Jyrras's character. In no particular order, here are my thoughts:



1. A dominating mother figure, combined with a laid-back dad equals a lack of teaching in the masculinity department. I mean, other than the sheer physical differences (his mother is not only emotionally but physically dominating) and this all culminates into a certain unavailability with his father, in the ways a father as a Man is supposed to teach and be an example to a son. This leaves him abit immasculine...and it's also the beginning of his shy tendencies.

2. His sisters were also...overpowering. They would have turned him off to women as representitives of the gender, smothering him with misplaced affection. Combined with a laid-back dad (And I apologize, but usually dad's like Jyrras's are really cool but lazy in certain areas of the parenting department) and an overpowering mother, you've got even more problems...Jyrras's shyness, avoidance of social contact, retreating into his own world of science and technology....

3. Meeting Dan: the atypical Guy basically filled the masculinity void left by his father...Jyrras's feelings would be more based in desire of Dan's traits, as well as finding something of a father figure, someone to emulate. At this point, gender confusion (Repressing attraction to the female would leave sexual "energy" rather free) as well as social confusion (His place in society, his being cut off from the majority of people, his social ineptitude) would all contribute to these feelings for Dan.

It's psychological truama mixed with continual personal confusion, and while Dan's a good guy, from the perspective of psychology...he's messed up. What he needs is emotional stability (Not likely with Dan or Abel, who are both rather large trainwrecks emotionally), to confirm his own masculinity, and to re-adjust emotionally in a healthy manner.


Honestly, I really do suggest Kria. She's ancient, experienced. It will be going after a mother-like figure, but she's the kind of person who could see his problems and help work them out. Because she's a warrior, she could (through teaching him combat or some other, more esoteric form) bring out his inner MAN, his inner masculinity and confidence that is sadly lacking. She's also extremely blunt, so she could pierce the geeky facade when he was being wimpy (And as a geek, I can relate to using the wimp-geek facade to manipulate people emotionally), while also encouraging him to "Stick to it", whatever "it" is.



Honestly, I don't want to make suggestions as to the storyline (Because suggestions from newbs usually make as much news as crap in a toilet) but I do think that Jyrras (And indeed, most of the cast) need to do some growing before any sort of truly healthy relationship could be tendered. I know I don't have their inner perspective as Amber does, but from the outside, things are rather breakable as they are now, and relationships wouldn't be the wisest thing (indeed, I respect Amber for not going after the romance cliche without reason, just for fun. She's keeping her continuety believable and deep, and I like that in a writer.)


so, there's my big point of nothing. I could have written this alot better, but I rushed abit. Psych 101 really does help you learn things about people!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm impressed.

You've put more thought into that one post than most people, myself included, put into a weeks posts. Admittedly in my case that's probably more posts than most do in a month, but still... :-]

You make some cogent points. And, since, as you say, we're not Amber, we'll just have to wait and see. I agree with many of your ideas, though... Just thought I'd compliment you on the clarity of vision. :-]

[Sirios Skywolf]

Thanks...


I'd actually  wanted to include a piece about Abel, but the psych evaluation of that guy would take a week and a Harvard trained psychologist.

[ShiningShadow]

I like it too that's is very thought out makes my post like crap. You have good points there, and you are right there that Amber will do her thing in this arc in due time.

Until now we will ahve to wait and see till the next arc will come.

[Aridas]

I thought they always were.

[Sirios Skywolf]

Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?



Anyway, it was a good comic...I really do hope this will be an entrance for Kria to have some influence in Jyrras's life. He hasn't grown much emotionally for awhile, and while being honest with Dan was a breakthrough, he still seems to have a long way to go to being emotionally healthy. And I will admit Jy/Kria might go bad before it goes good, "Always darkest before the dawn" and that mess.

[ShiningShadow]

Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?



Anyway, it was a good comic...I really do hope this will be an entrance for Kria to have some influence in Jyrras's life. He hasn't grown much emotionally for awhile, and while being honest with Dan was a breakthrough, he still seems to have a long way to go to being emotionally healthy. And I will admit Jy/Kria might go bad before it goes good, "Always darkest before the dawn" and that mess.

But if the relationship will have to go through those rough patches, it will get betting during time that Jy-Jy and Kria spends time together.  That pairing I think Kria will help Jyrass emotionaly immensly.

Who knows in DMFA stranger things has happened before. When it does then we get smacked in the face with it and go into a speculation frenzy here at the boards.

[Amber Williams]

Of course, I have no idea what the writer thinks. Hmm... I wonder if she agrees with my psych evaluation?

In all honesty?  I'm still trying to figure out if the Kria you are talking about is the Kria I'm drawing.

[Sirios Skywolf]

Well, I suppose you may be making an emphasis on her evil/self-pleasing, but although I think your trying for moral complexity (good and bad and good mixed up) Kria genuinely strikes me as a "good" person...I suppose reading Abel's story, I saw more of her kind/giving side, and so I may have put more emphasis on that.


But really, I honestly think the Kria we see the most is a shallow face-persona created by ages of continuous horror and evil as a means to cope. The reason the Immortals are so unknowable isn't wisdom, it's living with the human (or creature) experience far longer than our scope of knowledge was meant for. I realize a race of near immortals might have other means of coping, but being a human, looking from the perspective of reality, the Immortals just have longer and more deranged psychs. I don't think human beings can really imagine immortality as an experience, because it's something that we have no experience in.

[Zina]

I think you're looking too far into things.
The Kria we've seen in the current comic is violent and unpredictable. I mean, just a few strips ago, she was all for killing Jyrras. That doesn't sound like the beginnings of a healthy and loving relationship to me.

[Aridas]

She only thinks he's hot stuff. Well, as far as I saw.