03/06/07 [Cubi02] Mind reading 2

[Izkata]

Plus, how well would a cubi be able to keep up with someone who thinks rather fast, like a person with ADHD.  Those trains will lead you to nowhere.

How would a person with ADHD be able to handle intense combat effectively?

Busou Renkin, episode... 7? 8?  -When he spars in kendo with one of the Twins.

And, whoever that second cubi is...  He's pretty hot

[Manawolf]

Some specialize, and currently the topic is mindreaders.

Mindspies focus on their thought reading abilities to give them the upper hand.

Others use for non-combat situations, such as going undercover, and knowing the answers to questions people may ask to see if you really are who you say you are (to name one possibility).

[RJ]

But I like law books... *cough* 

[Zedd]

No lawbooks RJ! I dont wanna grow up like Wrightworth momma! *squrims*

[Manawolf]

::Working on Coke Rommer's Mind Assault Combo::

If he's out there, I have to thank Webkilla for the final part of the combo.

Boring stuff is like sifting, looking past the dirt to find the gold nuggets.  Sudden flashes of horrific imagery would actually prove more effective, and possibly the cubi may just dismiss it as how men are always thinking about porn.

...what?

When one only has less than a hundred years to reproduce, sex is going to be on the mind.

[Amber Williams]

Mana. Please stop putting your own mindview into my comic world.  You have an opinion of how mind/thought reading works that is very different from mine...and as such in terms of DMFA continuity, your points are offbase.

I've tried to be nice about it, but you honestly keep trying to shoehorn your own concept despite me having said multiple times it doesn't quite work that way.

[edit note]
For example, in reference to your idea of a "Mind Assault Combo":

Most Cubi do not like everyone knowing they are Cubi.  The ones in Fa'Linas guide are with their wings out because it lets people easily ID Cubi/nonCubi for demonstration purposes.  The average Cubi is not going to be wings a blazing like Aaryanna.  So unless you can think 24/7 on your "mind assault" or are so insanely paranoid you flash the thoughts to every stranger you meet, it likely isn't going to be all that effective. 

Barring that, as I said, a good deal of Cubi don't necessarily pay attention to reading thoughts to begin with unless they are potentially loud.  Most beings and people are not exactly thinking exciting things to begin with and most Cubi don't have an interest in your grocery list or who you are hoping to ask out on a date or whatever.  And for all intents, a "mind assault" sounds blaringly loud and annoying so odds are it would be like walking up to someone and randomly shouting obsenities in their faces just because they have the ability to see/hear. 

And finally, any Cubi who would be callous enough to constantly be trying to read your mind, they likely are of the sort where disturbing imagry wouldn't affect them.  The horrific images would probably only work on a Cubi who would actually find them horrific...aka: the ones who have common decency to begin with.

The biggest problem with the whole mind assault thing is that you are trying to go on the offensive when it isn't even necessary. People need to stop assuming that they and their precious memories/thoughts are so special that Cubi are salivating over the idea of listening to what you have to think.  Cause anyone who does have anything valuable in their mental capacities has already taken the initiative to keep their minds shielded. 

[Manawolf]

In an attempt to recover my post before my comp froze...

I am merely voicing what I have noticed about telepathy from other sources, which have shown some overlap.  I'm also trying for a poetic spin on the analogies.

Another thing I have recently thought of is how when someone introduces something new, others tend to A: take it as their own, or B: find a way to defeat or destroy it.

This is an internet forum.  90% of ideas that are introduced are questioned to High Hell as people try to explore it from varying angles and factors.

I'm just one of the more blunt individuals in this standard procedure.

[Amber Williams]

I am all game for people cross-referencing or putting the concepts to the grinding stone, but really.  Mindspies?  WTF?  The way you are wording makes it sound like those are supposedly in DMFA canon rather than a concept from another source.

If you are using other sources, please make note of it. Cause while the subject is about mindreading, I am not a mindreader and if people word ambigously, I can't tell if they are talking about something outside continuity or trying to insert their own theory into it.

[Manawolf]

Note for future reference: since I also can not read YOUR mind, most of the stuff I say will be my own theories.

As for the Mindspy, it's a prestige class from D&D for mind readers who want to extend their power of mind reading in order to gain an upper hand over an opponent.

[Tapewolf]

Congratulations, James 

[Reese Tora]

One wonders what the effect would be, on an average cubi (be there such a thing) of being in a room containing several people with each having a different banal song stuck in their head.

choice songs including:

Small world
99 bottles of beer
the song that everybody hates
the song that never ends
greasy grimey gopher guts
anything by the numerous recent pop stars, boy abnds, and the like (ok, I am willing to admit that they can't all be bad.)

Of course, it's already been said that a cubi can determine whether or not they tune in to a specific person's thoughts(Nascar camo FTW!), but it's still an amusing thought so far as I'm concerned.

--edited for typos/clarity--

[Tapewolf]

One wonders what the effect would be, on an average cubi (be there such a thing) of being in a room containing several people with each having a different banal song stuck in their heads.

Mind shield up ASAP, I think.

[King Of Hearts]

So I take it there are rarely Cubi lawyers to make it past law school...

...or med school for that matter.

[Magic]

It still depends on the interests of the incubus or succubus in question. One universal chant may not always work no matter how vile, boring or horrific it may be (consider that you can even bring yourself to think about said chant) as people still vary differently in taste.

Just one word of advice, though.

Think fast.

So I take it there are rarely Cubi lawyers to make it past law school...

...or med school for that matter.

*cough*

[King Of Hearts]

I knew I was forgetting something.

[superluser]

Mana. Please stop putting your own mindview into my comic world.  You have an opinion of how mind/thought reading works that is very different from mine...and as such in terms of DMFA continuity, your points are offbase.

Yeah.  Just wait until you start talking about mindreading, rather than thoughtreading.  Mana's theories will go out the window.  In fact, most theories of mindreading that I see don't include both (though it seemed obvious enough to me).

I am all game for people cross-referencing or putting the concepts to the grinding stone, but really.  Mindspies?  WTF?  The way you are wording makes it sound like those are supposedly in DMFA canon rather than a concept from another source.

Well, to be fair, just about every theory that involves mindreading has mindspies.  Ubik, for example.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

...And odds are a good few of them would find Banana phone/nursery rhymes/whatever entertaining.

"Look, guys, I found a radio! Just listen to this bunch of maniacs..." ;-]

[Gabi]

Congratulations to James indeed. I guess this calls for an addition to the wiki.

I liked the law book strategy. Especially since lawyers seem to have a language of their own, those texts arn't only boring but they don't even make sense most of the time.

[bill]

I think llearch's book of puns would be more effective than anything, but that's just me.

[Tapewolf]

Congratulations to James indeed. I guess this calls for an addition to the wiki.

Done.  I'm wondering whether we should replace his portrait with Amber's version, but that's probably up to him really.

[ShiningShadow]

Here's a question what if a Cubi is in a room blocking out every other thought till one screams out about the destruction of the world and has plans on how to do it. In my mind I will have that Cubi will stop that individual or strike up a conversation to find out more and do the right thing by killing the lot of them. As Amber says the Cubi is not interested in regular thoughts until ones is screaming at them and that's when they become curious about it. I know it's kinda strange has any Cubi has read those thoughts and done something good to prevent the destruction of another being? I know there are good Cubi's like Abel and Falina for example are there any evil Cubi's willing to destroy beings without a second thought *just pondering*.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Abel isn't necessarily good, he's just not deliberately malicious.

Fa'Lina, on the other hand, is a law unto herself. She'll do evil to get her way, no problem. Or good. or whatever works.

I see Abel as Lawful Neutral, or possibly Neutral Good, and Fa'Lina as, I'd guess, Chaotic Neutral - it's not yet apparent if she's Neutral Good, since we don't really know how much she has the good of the species in mind, and how much is just her good - after all, if the species dies out, it's not good for her, now, is it?

(ref: http://www.rhjunior.com/GH/00052.html)

[Alondro]

*Charles thinks loudly*  Can't let the cubi read my thoughts!  Must hide the information from them!  Must think of French nursery rhymes!  There are just four lights!  *waits until the all cubi attention is drawn to him... then unloads a slew of 1980's doll commercials, complete with hideous sugary jingles!*

*Charline GAH!!*  Ooog... not hungry anymore... his evil training was a little too thorough, me thinks.    *blarg*

[Netami]

Lookin' sharp, kid.

[Gareeku]

Hehe, many congrats to you, James. ^^

[Aisha deCabre]

Haha, now there's a familiar face.  Congrats, James.   

Also another nice informational piece on 'Cubi.  I don't suppose any of them go into law.   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ink went into med school. I'm sure some perverted sod of a Cubi went into law...


... Come to think of it, I wonder what Fa'Lina did... ;-]

[Turnsky]

from what i gather, as with everything else, no two cubi are alike, but however, i'm sure that most 'cubi don't like nascar. 

also, in its raw form, thought-reading is one of those innate things inherent to 'cubi, much like breathing and such, while it's a passive ability, it prolly takes extra talent to fully control it, much like controlling one's breathing..

i'm fairly certain that cubi have far more tricks up their sleeves (or lack thereof) that amber hasn't revealed yet 

[DJ Pirtu]

There are a few things that this comic made me think. Especially I have been wondering about just how deep the cubi thought-reading can go. So, if you please, let us step from the world of words and images to something more abstract.

Now, the first thing I have been pondering is that, just how abstract thoughts and ideas can a cubi read from one's mind (assuming that the said cubi is interested in the person's thoughts in the first place). Speaking for myself, for I have no idea how other people think, quite a few of my thoughts are remarkably abstract. Images, feelings, pieces of ideas and concepts, loose words and smells. How much of these would a cubi be able to receive just by means of thought-reading?
And for that matter, is it even possible for another person to make any sense of these thoughts?

Another thing I have been wondering about are mental relations. Say you think about a word "horse". Nothing else, just the word. Can you really do it? I doubt it. Unless you are really concentrating on the word itself and have a strong, well disciplined mind, there should be about a dozen things that pop into your mind at this time. Old memories. Some pictures you saw a few years ago. Mental images of some places. All sorts of things that you assosisate the word with.

The third, and probably the furthest fetched thing I have been pondering about are interpretations and can these be thought-read. While thinking about these, I feel that songs of different kinds are the best mental image to begin with.
Still assuming that a cubi would be interested in my thoughts (why, I don't know, but I guess there are weirdos even in the cubi race), lets say that I am "singing" a song in my head. I belive we can all agree that a cubi can thought-read the song itself. Now, lets assume that the lyrics of the song are more poetic and not absolutely clear about what they are saying. I probably still have some idea of how I am interpreting these lyric, as in, what I THINK they mean. Is this a thought that can be thought-read?
Now, a little more extreme example. Lets say that I am listening to a song in a language that I know, but the cubi doesn't. Now, I can understand the lyrics, but the cubi can't. But can the cubi thought-read my "understandment" of the song?


Just a thought.

[GabrielsThoughts]

I think amber over estimated James