Cybernations

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Incidentally (if you'll excuse the double post) I went and signed up for the forum that Solaris set up for embassies and suchlike for his Purple Star Directorate.

I've posted in there, and am negotiating a treaty. When I have got a more or less completed version from him (short story: I'm pulling for a defensive pact, rather than a full "we hit anyone who hits you immediately" treaty, but we'll see) I'll bring it back here and we can discuss it at length.

I think I'm tagged as ambassador. I note that, in passing, the "Purple Star Directorate" has a hell of a lot of non-purple countries in it, and has gone from 40+ countries, most lower than us, to 22 countries, of whom 9 or so are higher than most of us, and go up to 4000 infrastructure.

Must be nice to be that heavy. :-]

[Kasarn]

More like Green Star Directorate... but I guess that doesn't quite have the same ring to it

[Tezkat]

Oooh... server politics... a chance for some military action, perhaps? I've got the tech for a proper air force now...

These guys don't seem to be involved in anything heavier than inactive tech raiding, though. Anything big enough to hit them would probably do quite a number on us...

I guess I aim next for 31? Or should I hit ~20 and then 31, for the next two aid packages?

Well... I'll be able to hit 15 and ~25. The former could land on a birthday; the latter won't. You can take ~20 and 31, if you like.

So... anyone want to help with the bouncing in two days or so? I'll be able to foot a full $1.5 mil on my own this time, and we could work out a commission in either direction.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I should point out, woohoo, that today, I finally reached over a half a million in takings.

woot.

Oh, and as far as military action goes, I'm looking at pulling for a qualified mutual defence pact - basically, leader on either side has to call the other alliance in.

Otherwise we'd be hauled into everything, even if they can manage alone.

of course, they've changed structure a -lot- since last time I looked at them. Go figure...

[Tezkat]

Hmm... who else are they allied with? The domino effect of rolling MDPs led to the last great server war...

[Kryptic]

Aw, Fudge. My Coal/Iron trade canceled on me. Poopie.

And I still don't have that water/lumber. I guess I can try other combinations now, though.

[Kasarn]

Hmm... who else are they allied with? The domino effect of rolling MDPs led to the last great server war...

They claim to be a protectorate of the Imperial Assault Alliance, who fought with Aegis in GW3.
They also seem to have picked up a few ex-VE members, which might explain all the green.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Hmm... who else are they allied with? The domino effect of rolling MDPs led to the last great server war...

They've asked me to write up the treaty. I expect I'll put in a clause to exclude wars of -their- allies, limiting us to defensive posture only.


hey, it's in the name, right? :-]


Edit: By the way, for LunarWars, I noticed that 450 appears to be a big spike in cost for AI - close on doubling, again. So it's around 300 and 450, and probably 150 and 600, then, to boot - I don't remember looking at 150, and I'll keep watching for 600...

[Tezkat]

They've asked me to write up the treaty. I expect I'll put in a clause to exclude wars of -their- allies, limiting us to defensive posture only.


hey, it's in the name, right? :-]

Hmm... so... basically, we're only covering wars against them that weren't initiated by them?

Edit: By the way, for LunarWars, I noticed that 450 appears to be a big spike in cost for AI - close on doubling, again. So it's around 300 and 450, and probably 150 and 600, then, to boot - I don't remember looking at 150, and I'll keep watching for 600...

Really? My AI cost nearly doubled when I hit 400 (already paying over $14k per at 419). I'm not looking forward to yet another price spike at 450. And you need to spend Gold once you hit 500 as well (or so the docs say...). I suppose I could go through my records at some point and figure out the AI equation, assuming it hasn't been a victim of fiddling since I started (the way the housing equation has); I have data points every 10 AI or so. That does seem like a of work for a game I don't care that much about, though.


Anyway, I should be sending out my next aid package for Kryptic on Saturday. (I suppose she could still wait until Sunday to collect birthday taxes if she wants.) I don't seem to have any takers for middlemen yet, however. As an incentive, I can pad my shipment with a bit for you to skim off on the way down, or you can take 10 tech off the top on the way up (like with llearch).

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Hmm... so... basically, we're only covering wars against them that weren't initiated by them?

That would be my preference. If anyone disagrees with that, they're welcome to talk it over with me - I'm happy to abide by a majority vote, I'm just winging it so far based on my personal preferences...

Really? My AI cost nearly doubled when I hit 400 (already paying over $14k per at 419). I'm not looking forward to yet another price spike at 450. And you need to spend Gold once you hit 500 as well (or so the docs say...). I suppose I could go through my records at some point and figure out the AI equation, assuming it hasn't been a victim of fiddling since I started (the way the housing equation has); I have data points every 10 AI or so. That does seem like a of work for a game I don't care that much about, though.

Uh.. I'm at 456, and paying $21,138/level. :-/ Not -quite- doubling, but it's another big step up. :-(

As for gold... I guess AI slows -way- down, then. Either that or I start collecting more now - I'm unsure which is more likely... I'm already doing 1-2 housing stacks of 25 each to each AI 10-stack - when I'm not buying improvements, of course. :-/

Anyway, I should be sending out my next aid package for Kryptic on Saturday. (I suppose she could still wait until Sunday to collect birthday taxes if she wants.) I don't seem to have any takers for middlemen yet, however. As an incentive, I can pad my shipment with a bit for you to skim off on the way down, or you can take 10 tech off the top on the way up (like with llearch).

I guess I should start saving, then. I had intended to, but, well, it's so -nice- to keep updating my infrastructure, and paying out 1.5 million just slows that so much. I keep trying to catch up to that Tezkat guy... ;-]

[Valynth]

Be sure to be clear and note that if they come under fire from alliance B, because they initiated assaults alliance A, because of Alliance B having a similar treaty with Alliance A, then we will take no action.

Or you could just leave it open for interpretation with the intent to cancel the moment the treaty becomes bothersome and take your place among the greatest leaders in the world.

[Arcalane]

More like Green Star Directorate... but I guess that doesn't quite have the same ring to it

Greeple Star Directorate?

Beats Purpeen Star Directorate.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Be sure to be clear and note that if they come under fire from alliance B, because they initiated assaults alliance A, because of Alliance B having a similar treaty with Alliance A, then we will take no action.

I was thinking something along the lines of "If The Purple Star Directorate or The Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance become entangled in war due to the offensive actions of either members or allies, then either alliance may offer or request assistance, but, under the terms of this treaty, the requested Alliance is not bound to respond."

Or you could just leave it open for interpretation with the intent to cancel the moment the treaty becomes bothersome and take your place among the greatest leaders in the world.

Tempting, but it leaves it open for -them- to do the same to me.

[Tezkat]

Hmm... apparently, I won't be able to send another aid package until tomorrow, at least not through Arc or Kryptic. Funny... my last shipment was on the 20th (10 days ago)--it must be 10 days inclusive. Ah well, tomorrow is her 2-week-old birthday anyway. I still don't have a middleman, though.

First person to speak up gets... hmm... say... 200k on the way down or 10 tech on the way back up.

(Well, other than llearch and Kasarn, of course... )

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Bugger.

*cough* ;-]

Erm. I was going to mention that I think I'm going to miss the 20th, and hit 21. I guess we hold off, and you can hit the 30th, then - otherwise we're going to miss it through the ten day window.

[Tezkat]

Hmm... okay. I'll have my next package ready in two weeks, then.

I probably won't be online much today (Canada Day festivities), so I just dropped $1.5 mil on Kryptic directly. First person to speak up gets 10 tech.

Does nobody like free stuff anymore?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

So... can I speak up? ;-]

(technically, no. I've still got the last trade there, so I'm out...)

[Kasarn]

Rather than saying who can't do it, you should say that you are talking to Jim, Valynth and Arcalane.

[Arcalane]

Code Select Expand

[Sun 01st] [02:42#33pm] [llearch] Sheridanna: have you considered responding to the cybernations thread?
[Sun 01st] [02:42#42pm] [Sheridanna] hm? for the free tech? :p
[Sun 01st] [02:42#47pm] [llearch] or cash, yes.
[Sun 01st] [02:43#14pm] [llearch] bearing in mind that -someone- will have to take it, otherwise we'll end up losing time.
[Sun 01st] [02:45#34pm] [Sheridanna] oh, well, when you put it that way...

'nuff said.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

\o/

7/1/2007 3:03:50 AM Subject: join The Order Of Light

Dear friend,
in order to fasten the alliance's development, we -the members of The Order Of Light- have decided to ask rulers of strong nations, to become members of TOOL.

As a ruler of a really strong nation, you are invited to join TOOL, so as to increase your power and ours, as well.

To become a member, except of changing your "Alliance Affiliation", you should come to our forum, register, read our charter, and Sign Up

Forum address:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/TOOL/
Sign up address:
http://z6.invisionfree.com/TOOL/index.php?showforum=3

All members are given 200k and all the support needed, in order to develop faster

Best regards,
grouchomarx

Ps. You don't have to fight alone anymore!

Gee. What a bonus.

That's, oh, about 2/5ths of what I collect every day.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Of course, it's 2/5.
After joining the 5/5 is going to be really more than 500,000. So, think about it...

... it already is. Can't he count? (yes, that's rhetorical...)

[Kryptic]

At least he complemented you. 



If generic overused recruiting tactics are complements.

[Kasarn]

I may be wrong but I think you misunderstand what he's trying to say.

He is basically saying that, as a member of a large alliance, you will get a lot more support over the long run.
However, of 227 nations in TOOL, only the top six alliances have more infrastructure than you do and only the top 15 alliances are above 800 infra; if anything, you would be the one giving out money to help the alliance grow.

[Arcalane]

<insert lewd joke about their choice of alliance name here>

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I may be wrong but I think you misunderstand what he's trying to say.

He is basically saying that, as a member of a large alliance, you will get a lot more support over the long run.
However, of 227 nations in TOOL, only the top six alliances have more infrastructure than you do and only the top 15 alliances are above 800 infra; if anything, you would be the one giving out money to help the alliance grow.

Heh. How much support do I really need, though? And even if I dragged my entire alliance into there, we'd -all- be in the top 20 or so, with ease. Which is a hell of a shot in the arm for him, but what do -we- get out of it? All of us can scrounge up 200k with relative ease - heck, I can fund 200k out of pocket change, at present. I dread to think how much the best person on their team can pull out of his pockets.

Besides, we're busy spending ~9 million, and have already spent something on the order of 6 million on our newest member. I can't see too many people giving that level of support, even if we're only passing effectively 1/3rd of that in terms of overall aid, the rest being returned in the form of tech. We're also boosting the other lower members of the team in passing.

Personally, I think -we're- about the best team to join. The only downside is, you've got to be -here- on the forum. Ooo, how tricky. :-]

<insert lewd joke about their choice of alliance name here>

I thought about that, but that'd be just a cheap shot. :-]

[Kasarn]

Well, I did mention CN over at Furstralia. Of course, there are only a handful of active members over there and nobody seemed interested. I could post it to other places if you want

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'll pass. I'm not really interested in extending the team - if I was, I'd probably have joined one of the other teams, wouldn't I?

I kinda prefer the current setup. At least here we're all friends. :-]

[Arcalane]

All of us can scrounge up 200k with relative ease - heck, I can fund 200k out of pocket change, at present.

I'm already pulling in 257k of tax money (though I'm paying something like 90k in bills ).

So do I pass 40 Tech along to Tez now after getting that package?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I believe that's the intent.

I guess I need to nudge Kasarn again to get him ready for my next performance...

Edit:

Oh, yes. I have a copy here of a Treaty for us to wave at those folks over at the Purple Star Directorate.

Let me know if you think it covers everything, or if I've missed anything, or if you agree or disagree, as appropriate.

-----
Nomenclature
For the purposes of this document, and brevity and clarity, the following terms have been defined:
- "PSD" is used to indicate The Purple Star Directorate.
- "DMFA" is used to indicate The Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance.
- "Signee" is used to indicate either the PSD or the DMFA.
- "Aggressor" is used to indicate the attacking nation.
- "Defender" is used to indicate the Member Nation who has been attacked.
- "Invoker" is used to indicate the Signee who invokes the terms of this treaty.
- "Responder" is used to indicate the Signee who responds to the invocation.
- "Allies" is used to indicate any alliances or individuals that have, at the time of signing of this treaty, or in the future, a treaty with the Signee.
- "Member States" is used to indicate any member of the PSD or the DMFA.
- "Leader" is used to indicate the designated leader of the Signee.
- "Executive States" is used to indicate the leader and/or their nominated representatives of both the DMFA and the PSD. For the purposes of this treaty, this is limited to llearch n'n'daCorna for DMFA, and Solaris (as Chairman) and the Directorate Council Members (princeofcats and Cylon) for the PSD, as per the Directorate Charter.


Terms

1  Mutual Defense
1.1  If either Signee is attacked, the Leader of that alliance may Invoke this treaty to call on the other alliance for assistance.
1.1.1  Neither Leader is required to invoke this treaty. If, in his or her judgement, the alliance is able to cope with the war "in-house", they are perfectly welcome to do so.
1.2  When invoked, assistance must be provided with all capability to hand.
1.2.1  Speed of response is generally expected to be within 72 hours.
1.2.2  Clause 1.2.1 does not specify that Aid or Aggressive Action must be initiated within 72 hours, although this, obviously, would be preferred. Rather, it specifies that some response indicating acknowledgement of the Invocation must be received within 72 hours at the absolute maximum.
1.2.3  Communication may be initiated via whichever protocol the Invoker and Responder prefer, although for speed of response, email and IM might be considered a good starting place.
1.3  It is accepted that there will be cases where the Aggressor is unable to be directly, ah, "enlightened to the error of his ways", due to the relative size of the Aggressor and the Defender, as restricted by the game code, to the Responder.
1.3.1  In these cases, Financial Aid may be arranged to mutual agreement of the Defender, Executive States, and the provider of Aid.
1.3.2  It is expected that this formality will be something along the lines of "How about $x?" "Sounds good to me." or equally brief. Bearing in mind that the game itself is a day-by-day turn, a day or so delay in accepting aid is not expected to be a problem.
1.4  If the Aggressor is attacking as a result of the political or military action of either the Member States, Executive States, or Allies of the Defender and/or Defender's Alliance, clause 1.2 is invalidated.
1.4.1  Clause 1.4 specifically does not invalidate clauses 1.2.1 to 1.2.3.
1.4.2  Clause 1.4 is intended to mean that if someone starts something on a forum, and it results in them being attacked, the Treaty is unable to be Invoked.
1.4.3  It also means that if an Ally Nation of one of the Signees is attacked, and the Signee is then required to assist, and is, in turn, attacked, the other Signee is not required to assist, breaking the descending chain of wars.
1.4.4  In this case, assistance may be requested, but is not required to be provided.
1.5  Breach of any clauses, with or without mitigating circumstances (eg, bereavement in family, Real Life interfering, etc), will require some diplomacy.
1.5.1  This may include all-out war, at worst, although reparations may be demanded to make good the loss.
1.5.2  Diplomacy may resolve the issue with talking - eg, in case of bereavement, the Invoker is allowed to accept that that is sufficient reason for not being able to respond, etc etc.
1.5.3  The offended party is required to make a "good faith" effort to attain satisfaction prior to declaring war. On the balance side of the coin, the offender is also required to make a "good faith" effort to make restitution.


2  Change of Terms
2.1  Either Signee may propose changes to the terms of this agreement, but said proposals are not effective until 24 hours after being ratified by both alliances, or at a date (and timezone) specified.
2.1.1  If specified, the date proposed must be at least 24 hours after the time the proposal is submitted, to give the Executive States involved time to consider the ramifications.
2.1.2  It is accepted that a majority of the Executive States on either side is sufficient for ratification.
2.2  Respective sizes are, at time of writing of this treaty, more or less equal. Since the PSD is actively recruiting, and the DMFA is simply "a bunch of friends", it is expected that at some point, the PSD will increase in size to significantly larger than the DMFA. At such time, reconsideration of the treaty terms may be advisable, as per clause 2.1.


3  Cancelling of Terms
3.1  If either the DMFA or the PSD wish to cancel this treaty, a mandatory 24-hour notice period is required.

[Kasarn]

* Kasarn is nudged

Anyway, treaties are supposed to be done in-character, so you shouldn't mention things like game mechanics or instant messengers and you shouldn't use colloquialisms. Of course, some alliances go the other direction and create very silly treaties.
I think 1.5 and its subclauses are poorly worded.
I don't believe that a Change of Terms clause is overly required.
Overall, I think it's too complex/annoying to read; add more line breaks.

I don't know why you didn't just write it in the style of most CN treates, i.e. something like

Article 1
If either the Purple Star Directorate (PSD) or the Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance (DMFA) is aggressively attacked, then that alliance may activate this treaty to call on the other alliance for full military assistance.

Article 2
If either PSD or DMFA begins an aggressive war, then this treaty cannot be invoked and neither alliance is obligated to aid the other.

Article 3
Failure to acknowledge activation of this treaty within 72 hours or failure to provide military assistance will result in the suspension of this treaty, pending diplomatic discussions.

Article 4
If either PSD or DMFA decide that this treaty is no longer appropriate and desire to end this treaty, a minimum 24 hour period of notification is required.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Probably because I've deliberately avoided most CN treaties. Also because that leaves us open to them being attacked by someone else for actions on forum, or for someone else attacking them due to mutual defense treaties on the aggressor's side.

I'll think about it, though.

And yes, I agree about 1.5. I wasn't sure how to put that, if at all. :-/

Edit: Almost forgot:

Ranked 2,000 of 10,294 colonies