hmm... firefox bad?

[Aridas]

stumbled upon an interesting conversation about web browsers...

http://www.underground-gamer.com/forums.php?action=viewtopic&topicid=6645&page=1

If you're unable to go there, then just check out this link that was in the post instead. it's not as informative, but at least it's saying something about something.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html

[Elader Arkon]

I would note the navigation bar as it seems somewhat biased towards Microsoft:

Home| Windows Vista| Windows XP| Windows 2000| Windows Experts| Software Guides| About 

Hardly Objective.

I think PC Magazine did a good job on evaluating and comparing Firefox 2, IE7, and Opera 9. (even though it was the FF2 Beta1, and IE7 beta3)

The Article can be found... Here

[Aridas]

I did make some tests myself, you know... These aren't talking about the browsers so much as the people promoting them, since there's a bit of misinformation by the looks of it. I can vouch for most of what is said there, though some of it I really didn't check into yet.

[Elader Arkon]

I personally think that with the final releases of IE7, and Firefox2, nearly all the browsers stand fairly equal, and its only a matter of opinion as to which is really better. The only thing that really sets Firefox apart from IE now is the fact that Firefox has more flexibility for those that want it. I don't think one is safer than the other, and I don't really care about the speed, since my computer is fast enough to make any of the browser's load times or memory consumption a moot point anyway.

   After reading the PC Mag article though, the thing I was wondering is why I've never bothered to try Opera before. Obviously I'm not using IE7 on my linux distro, but I do have it and have used it on my Windows Partition (still prefer FF because I really, really like to tweak my stuff out). For those who don't have any real needs/want for a massively messed with browser, I would just tell them to give 'em all a try. After all, they're free and on fairly equal footing.

[Aridas]

Yeah, most every browser has something going for it... I think Opera might even be better in terms of compatibility... I did my own tests and I noticed that Opera seemed to come out closest. Opera's one disadvantage is that the configuration and such might be too complex for the average person... other than that, I'd still rather recommend Opera rather than Firefox as an alternative.

[Vidar]

What do you mean "Microsoft biased"?

Myth - "Firefox has lower System Requirements than Internet Explorer" - Example

Reality - Internet Explorer 6 has much lower minimum System Requirements than Firefox 2

And Ubuntu has higher system requirements than MS-dos 5.0.
Firefox 2 is a rival for IE7, not IE6. This comparison is not apples to apples.

Minimum:
486/66 MHz CPU
16 MB of RAM
11.5 MB of free disk space
Windows 98

Notes - Anyone who claims Internet Explorer 6 will not run on these requirements has never tested it.

It'll run, if you have nothing else installed, do not have the flash / shockwave / java stuff loaded, and if you like truly glacial performance. Windows 95 needed a pentium 100 to get it chugging along back in the day.

More Secure than Internet Explorer 6

Myth - "Firefox 1.x is more Secure than Internet Explorer 6" - Example

Reality - Internet Explorer 6 has been more secure than Firefox 1.x in 2006. - Source

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Also, I love the DMCA warning dumnped somewhere in the middle of the page.

Legal Notice - Reproduction of this page in whole or in part is strictly forbidden. This guide and ALL versions thereof are protected by copyright under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Feel free to link to this Guide.

I'm so scared.

And then there's the overall windows theme going on, and the design look definitly Microsoftian.
I classify this comparison under MS Propaganda.

[hiro1112]

Im a firefox man, probably always will be. IE was so slow evolving in comparison with Firefox.

[Sid]

A DMCA note to prevent copying? Never heard of Fair Use, I guess... very ironic that a Copyright Myth ends up on a Firefox Myth page.

And I find one myth highly ironic:

Myth - "Firefox has lower System Requirements than Internet Explorer" - Example

Reality - Internet Explorer 6 has much lower minimum System Requirements than Firefox 2

And the new reality: Internet Explorer 7 does not run on Mac OS X, Linux... or any Windows other than XP, 2003 or Vista, meaning that IE7 runs on less versions of Windows than Firefox (or Opera) - Source

The page is fairly pointless since it doesn't tell you what browser is actually better. It just says that Firefox isn't the Holy Grail (Edit: And I will freely admit: It isn't. - But neither are the other browsers) and then merrily throws in a few things that border on misinformation. Just one fanboy page countering other fanboy pages.

My choice? Well, IE7 doesn't even run on my OS (so I couldn't test it even if I wanted to), and Firefox has the most extension support (to my knowledge), so Firefox it is.

[Aridas]

Meh. That'd be much of what I couldn't truly test. I still think Opera works better, though.

Oh, and about MS propaganda sites? I think I'd rather see one of those than a firefox propaganda site. You know, rather than those crazy whackos that do ANYTHING to make the competition look bad... As opposed to someone dragging FF down to a more equal ground. What matters to me is that IE7 can still block all pop ups if you configure it to, and Opera probably doesn't even though I haven't dove in to the config to find out what it does, it worked on sites I went to that firefox wouldn't at that time and may still not support, and that's good enough for me to stick with the combo. It's not that firefox is a terrible thing, but there are just too many whacked out supporters and I'm preferring to keep my distance from them for as long as my own browsers have no problem.

In order to stop this from turning into some kind of flame war though, let's clear up the bias from either side. No crazy sites, no anything. I've already witnessed a few anti-microsoft sites that claimed IE wouldn't work on it. That is, til I disguised it as another browser and waltzed right in with no trouble at all. Stuff like that. I know that IE is probably not too far up to speed with some standards, but that doesn't change the fact that it's compatible with a good many sites still.

[Vidar]

I know that IE is probably not too far up to speed with some standards, but that doesn't change the fact that it's compatible with a good many sites still.

One of the reasons that IE is compatible with most sites is because most sites are made to be compatible with IE.
The trouble is, MS plays it a little loose with the standards, and IE deviates from the W3C more then most web-designers care for. MS can get away with this, because most people still use IE (because most websites work with it).
This leaves web-designers to figure out where MS deviates, and how they can fix it in their websites, while at the same time getting it to work / having it continue to work in Firefox / Operah / Lynx / [insert esotheric browser here]. Glad I'm not a web-designer.

[Elader Arkon]

that's good enough for me to stick with the combo. It's not that firefox is a terrible thing, but there are just too many whacked out supporters and I'm preferring to keep my distance from them for as long as my own browsers have no problem.

Yeah, its some of those rabid fans that almost make me ashamed of being involved in the linux/opensource community.

  I personally have nothing against Microsoft or Bill Gates since they worked hard as well as smart to get to where they are today as the dominant leader in the market. And I even have many of their products (namely the Xbox360, and Win95, 98, 2000, ME -I do really hate that one-, and XP OS disks).
   I think IE7 works pretty darn good in the latest versions of Windows, because as its been pointed out, thats because its the only place its made for -so it better work well.

I use Firefox over Opera because of the sheer amount of flexibility to do whatever you really want with it. Plus I couldn't live without my extensions (mainly ad-block, no-script, rss ticker, fasterfox, bookmark synchronizer, etc). That said, I've still yet to try Opera, mainly because I'm so happy with the way I've set everything up to look and run like I want it to. The greatest problem with Firefox (or any opensource project) is its community base -but that very thing is also its greatest strength and gives it the massive flexibility (read: need something? Got a problem? Ask the community, they'll either find it/make it/ or find a way to get it to work). 

   Though the fans of FF are taaame compared to those who use a fork of it like, say, Debian and its IceWeasel fork. Sheesh, those guys are almost as bad as some of the rabid Slackware users.  Yep. I think the Opensource community has the all-out most crazy, rabid, extreme fanatics to be found anywhere outside of the Middle East. Too bad (or maybe its a good thing) they can't all get along with each other and REALLY get a massive amount of stuff done.

[Darkmoon]

Opera is the most compatible with web-standard coding. However, it has a couple of glaring flaws in how it handles a couple of tags (positioning for one), and they way it handles THOSE tags is so out of left field, it makes the minor futzes that Firefox does look tame by comparison.

I use Firefox because I hate IE 6.0, and I'm am NOT using IE 7.0 until they release a service pack for it. I already have heard too many IE7 horror stories to trust it before IE7 SP1.

[Aridas]

Opera is the most compatible with web-standard coding. However, it has a couple of glaring flaws in how it handles a couple of tags (positioning for one), and they way it handles THOSE tags is so out of left field, it makes the minor futzes that Firefox does look tame by comparison.

I saw that one a few times on my time with it. I wonder if they'll ever getting around to working on the accuracy of what they have.

[ITOS]

I have Firefox but it runs so slow on my computer. I'm too lazy to find out why so I just use IE.

[Vidar]

I have Firefox but it runs so slow on my computer. I'm too lazy to find out why so I just use IE.

What are your system specs?

[Amber Williams]

I personally tend to use whichever system was on my computer and convenient.  It just so happens that my new computer the guy who set it up put Firefox on as the main browser...so I use it.

Not that I don't find various problems with it.  For some reason my Firefox likes to lock up and randomly close down without giving the restore session thing...where as if I just try to shut my pc down, next time it will be all "RESTORE SYSTEM??? "

I still get popups, and the only difference sometimes feels that I get a little "adblock" tab above some images.

Will I still keep using it? Probably.  But I don't hold a big "omg! Firefox is the greatest thing EVAH. IE is a big poopie head. " fixation that makes me comparable to linux fans.

[bill]

Firefox takes way too long to startup, sometimes. That said, it's perfectly fine for my purposes.

[Suwako]

I use Firefox, because I'm allergic to seeing the same skin for more then 4 or so months. Same goes for desktop pictures. To bad windows has only 3 standard decent looking skins. (I'm downloading nothing)

I hate that page and wish to never see it again. 

The funny thing is I read a real test in a respected dutch computer magazine and some of his declarations don't match with my professional computer magazine.

[Darkmoon]

Yeah, Firefox can have issues loading. I've also notice it's allergic to Photoshop, and vice versa. It also doesn't ALWAYS block pop-ups, but any blockage is still better than the none I get from IE6.

I'm not a whore for Firefox. I would use something else if it had more of the features I needed in my webdesign (I have so many extensions installed on this puppy). My single biggest beef with IE6 is just that it doesn't render sites properly. You have to fuck with it so much (which I end up doing anyway, but on the back end)...

I am honestly glad Microsoft is pushing through IE7 updates. Once enough people use it, I can figure out how it mangles the code I write (which isn't as bad as IE6 supposedly), and I can start switching my site fixes over.

[Aridas]

I'm not actually sure if IE7 is currently better or worse than IE6... In the early betas it was horrible, but now that it's out of beta it seemed to be not too bad as it was. I'd compare it with IE6 but that'd require two computers, and i'm too lazy. But maybe later. Especially if I find something decent that can tell me what's what.

[Darkmoon]

You don't need two computers. If you want, I'll find the link again, but you can run !E6 on a computer with IE7 just be removing a couple of non-essential files.

[Aridas]

But I don't actually WANT to. My laptop doesn't have IE7, which makes it a waste of effort to actually change anything on my regular computer... unless IE6 was better.

[Darkmoon]

I'm just saying. You said you couldn't run it on two machines. You actually can.

[Shadrok]

Will I still keep using it? Probably.  But I don't hold a big "omg! Firefox is the greatest thing EVAH. IE is a big poopie head. " fixation that makes me comparable to linux fans.

Firefox works for me so Firefox is what I use. Though there are some things I have to use IE for, like Yahoo radio.

Yeah, Firefox can have issues loading. I've also notice it's allergic to Photoshop, and vice versa.

Interesting I've never had that problem between the two, it could be that I use Photoshop Elements.

[Darkmoon]

Full tilt photoshop will run HORRIBLY SLOW if Firefox is up and running for any length of time. Firefox crashes if Photoshop is up for too long.

Likely they are using similar chunks of RAM and causing conflicts.

[Shadrok]

I wonder if clearing the history every so offten would help?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Interestingly, I updated my desktop at work to iceweasel the other day, and discovered that they've changed the alt-char for one of the menus to alt-s.

This makes it tricky to post here. Or, at least, annoying. I'm still looking to see where to change it... :-/

[Sid]

Interestingly, I updated my desktop at work to iceweasel the other day, and discovered that they've changed the alt-char for one of the menus to alt-s.

This makes it tricky to post here. Or, at least, annoying. I'm still looking to see where to change it... :-/

Aren't there key re-map extensions for Firefox that might work with Iceweasel?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Not obviously available. There is one for OS X, but... I'm loath to upgrade my desktop at home as well, and play with it there... :-)

I'll sort it out eventually.

[xHaZxMaTx]

My cousin just recently upgraded from IE (6, 7?) to Firefox, and he says it runs a lot better.  Don't ask me specifics, he just said it was better.