2017-07-31 [DMFA #1773] The murder game

[Tapewolf]

Well, I guess any worries about annoying Hizell by killing his messenger are moot.  Looks like he'll be more annoyed if Pyroduck doesn't.
Presumably if Pyroduck cripples but doesn't actually kill the messenger, Hizell will take care of the 'be killed' part in person.

[ArchTeryx]

Hizell is demanding that Pyro send one of his to the morgue!

Hmmm.  I wonder how this particular minion would react to being sat on?

[Caswin]

I'm reminded of the problem of Diamonds Are Forever, where when you think about that memorable scene with the villain and a body double taunting James Bond, who only has one shot with his grappling-hook gun but is apparently prepared to use it...

...if you're the body double -- or the real thing, for that matter -- the end result of convincing him you're the real mastermind is being shot.

[MT Hazard]

Well, I guess that answers my questions about how much value they place on their own lives. Looks like Hizell has the 'we have reserves' approach to minions. Also messengers? Not messenger? Is he expected to kill any more his dad sends?

[Famout]

I want a time skip now showing Pyro just sitting on the taur thing like he did with Abel, looking annoyed by it of course.

[HaDDea]

I want a time skip now showing Pyro just sitting on the taur thing like he did with Abel, looking annoyed by it of course.

Hopefully he has the hose trained on her, too. "Bwwaggrrrbllblblbblblbllll!"

Hmmm... what kind of Fae punishment would be best for this pest? Certainly she has to keep living... being cursed to live as a being? or a 'cubi? Magically forced to fall in love with a 'cubi? some shiny Fae curse bangles, so no one would kill her (she/hizell might abuse that one)?

Would blinding her work? Just because one has compassion and mercy doesn't mean one is a pacifist. Crippling her might be an option (albeit not a pleasant one).

[Rafe]

The biggest surprise in all this...

Hizell has referred to Pyroduck as "my son".

[keybounce]

Today's update rant:

My, can you take a hint?  -- llearch

Yea, nothing like that quote on Katbox.

Comic comment: Yes, the "My Son" is interesting. He's gone from "Kill some and maybe I'll acknowlege you as my son, right now you are one of the destroyed ones" to "Yes, Pyro, I do believe you are my son, now live and prove it. My children can fight. Show me."

Still, the compassion and mercy bit ... was it Jafar, or Iago, who said "You'd be amazed at what you can live through"?

I expect that it is less "Daddy will force you to kill them", and more like old Inspector Cluesau, where his assistant/body guard was under orders to attack him at any time, to keep him on guard. That which does not kill the messengers only makes them stronger, and they will keep coming back until they are killed. So, he can play Batman, put the joker in jail time after time, but the joker always gets out and comes back.

At some point, either Pyro will make a mistake, and then someone dies; or Pyro will deliberately decide to end this messenger mission.

My money/bet: He disables, without killing, these minions, and then goes to daddy and confronts him to make this stop.

[Cassi-kun]

Well, I guess that answers my questions about how much value they place on their own lives. Looks like Hizell has the 'we have reserves' approach to minions. Also messengers? Not messenger? Is he expected to kill any more his dad sends?

Kria did mention a few pages ago that these Mythos have a "crazy death cult" and "would have liked" being killed in service of Hizell.

The biggest surprise in all this...

Hizell has referred to Pyroduck as "my son".

Pretty much! I assume this is meant to symbolize something, but I also assume Pyro won't particularly care what it symbolizes.

[Tapewolf]

My money/bet: He disables, without killing, these minions, and then goes to daddy and confronts him to make this stop.

Not sure what it would take to 'make this stop'... probably the death of Fa'Lina, Destania, Abel and anyone else Pyroduck can be expected to have access to.

Kria did mention a few pages ago that these Mythos have a "crazy death cult" and "would have liked" being killed in service of Hizell.

I have to wonder if there's something like M'Chek's harvesting going on there.

[PhycoKrusk]

The most critical question remains, "What is Hizell's endgame?"

It seems pretty clear to me by this point that he's playing a Xanatos Gambit; the stunt with Abel was simply to gauge Zinvth's response. The real plan revolves completely around Pyroduck: Either the messengers kill him, and this will drive Fa'lina to take action in some way that can be exploited, or he will kill them, and this will drive a certain response from the Lost Lake denizens, which will drive Pyroduck to take action in some way that can be exploited, or he won't kill them and they'll keep coming, which will drive a certain response from the Lost Lake denizens, which will drive Pyroduck to take action in some way that can be exploited. Regardless of what ultimately happens, any result will further his long-term plans.

Plans which do not appear to account for Aliph, Daniel, or Jyrras, or account for them in some way that is either incorrect or incomplete. I can't help but feel that we are about to find out whether or not Hizell is any good at improvising.

[LoneHowler]

I have a feeling that he will just repeat this http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_683.php

[The One Guy]

Hmm, there's obviously more going on than what meets the eye.  In addition to the "my son" part, killing the messenger is what, Hizell wants, and what the messenger wants.  There's no mercy in sparing her life, as no one wants her to be spared, not even herself, and thus him killing her proves nothing but ability.  While this could mean this is a way of gauging his strength, ensuring he is string enough to be his son, or alternatively to see how much of a threat he poses, neither really seem like something Hizell would do.

Some have theorized this is a way to keep him on his toes, constantly attacking him with messengers, but again, that doesn't really seem like something Hizell would do.  He's set out the parameters of what Pyroduck needs to do to become his son, and doesn't view him as a threat.

Another idea mentioned is that this is to provoke a response, but that would only be effective if he fails and dies.  Lost Lake is no stranger to killing; they're on good terms with Kria, and even Dan's likely done his fair share of killing in his day.  Pyro being forced to kill an attacker who will not give up until dead would not really faze them.

One idea I came up with is that Hizell is trying to sway Pyroduck into turning against his allies, by dangling the promise of acknowledgement as his son in front of him and making his life even harder while he continues to defy him.  But even then I feel like Hizell is smart enough to know that won't work.

[ZacAttac21]

Is this the part where Lexsi leaps in, hammer swinging?

[Cassi-kun]

I have to wonder if there's something like M'Chek's harvesting going on there.

There may be, or it could be power accumulated from all the Cubi clans and Clan Leaders he's felled. Possibly both.

[PhycoKrusk]

Another idea mentioned is that this is to provoke a response, but that would only be effective if he fails and dies.  Lost Lake is no stranger to killing; they're on good terms with Kria, and even Dan's likely done his fair share of killing in his day.  Pyro being forced to kill an attacker who will not give up until dead would not really faze them.

Well, yes and no. It's true that the LLD are quite familiar with death, when you get down to it, but that's not the crux of the issue. They might be quite comfortable with the idea of Dan killing another entity; it comes with the territory of being an adventurer. But are they comfortable with the idea of Pyroduck killing, when all evidence so far shows him to be at least averse to the activity, if not an out-and-out pacifist. It's hard to say how they might react when something that is otherwise certain for them turns out to be untrue, and may drive a response from them, which will in turn drive action from Pyroduck that Hizell can exploit.

There's also the point to consider that while the LLD are not unfamiliar with danger, we have not seen a period of time where they lived under constant threat of it. Even at the height of his career, there's no evidence that assassins were routinely showing up looking for Dan, so this may itself drive a response from the LLD, which will in turn drive action from Pyroduck that Hizell can exploit.

There's also the idea of what taking a life might mean for Pyroduck himself, particularly when the situation is such that the choice to kill or not kill is effectively taken away from him. This may well — and in fact, seems likely — to drive action from Pyroduck that Hizell can exploit.

Or maybe none of this happens: Pyroduck is shaken but copes and stays at the Inn, no one behaves differently towards him, and life continues more or less as it always has, yielding useful data that Hizell can exploit.



There is no outcome here that I can see where Hizell's plans — whatever they are — will not progress forward.

[Caswin]

Still, the compassion and mercy bit ... was it Jafar, or Iago, who said "You'd be amazed at what you can live through"?

Both of them.  It's a running thing in the movie.

Hmm, there's obviously more going on than what meets the eye.  In addition to the "my son" part, killing the messenger is what, Hizell wants, and what the messenger wants.  There's no mercy in sparing her life, as no one wants her to be spared, not even herself, and thus him killing her proves nothing but ability.

From a 70s movie, to the 90s, and back to the 80s:

"Live or die, man?"
"...die!..."

Edit:
And now I'm back to reading Paradise Lost, where smooth-talking Belial seems among Satan's council to want to be ended, but wonders if God would "give his enemies their wish".

[Tuyu]

One idea I came up with is that Hizell is trying to sway Pyroduck into turning against his allies, by dangling the promise of acknowledgement as his son in front of him and making his life even harder while he continues to defy him.  But even then I feel like Hizell is smart enough to know that won't work.

I still think it's not that complicated.

He keeps giving Pyro chances, and making the requirements easier. He wants Pyro to return to him.

[katasev]

Ouch, Duckie just rolled a critical fail on his bluff check. She's not backing down for anything because she WANTS conflict!

Also... messengers?? Uh oh....

[Cassi-kun]

I still think it's not that complicated.

He keeps giving Pyro chances, and making the requirements easier. He wants Pyro to return to him.

However, his current relationship with Pyro is "Yeah, I never tried to find you or get you back myself, but if you do this, I might let you come home!" He's offering no actual incentive for Pyro to come back to him, except for Pyro to come back to him.

[ArchTeryx]

"Live or die, man?"
"...die!..."

Do remember how that scene ended: Daniel refused and settled for humiliating the crap out of him instead, just as he'd seen Miyagi do earlier in the movie.

That would be completely in character for Pyroduck.  Turn into a dragon, sit on her and honk her nose.  Let's see what Death Cult Minion makes of that!

[SteelWings]

Come on Pyro, show us why dragons are the bestest of races, Sit on that uppity messenger!

[Tuyu]

Ouch, Duckie just rolled a critical fail on his bluff check. She's not backing down for anything because she WANTS conflict!

Also... messengers?? Uh oh....

Another thought--if there's a way to do it, Hizell may be feeding her power, to make sure the fight is kill-or-be-killed. (The advantage of this is he can always pull the plug if it looks like Pyro would actually die.  And he doesn't seem the type to allow his minions to have enough power to challenge a dragon on their own.)

However, his current relationship with Pyro is "Yeah, I never tried to find you or get you back myself, but if you do this, I might let you come home!" He's offering no actual incentive for Pyro to come back to him, except for Pyro to come back to him.

Of course not. This is not a bribe. It's another opportunity for Pyro to make the right choice, of his own free will.

[Tapewolf]

Come on Pyro, show us why dragons are the bestest of races, Sit on that uppity messenger!

Word on twitter is that the page will be late owing to a fight scene.  So it doesn't look like it'll be quite that simple.  We shall see, though...