I have to say, I'm impressed that a joke from that long ago turns out to actually have been somewhat serious. So, the next question is, who is "they" that our nigh-omniscient poodle headmistress is referring to? Dan's friends? Other Cubi in the area?
It would seem that the B-O-B is still hell-bent on killing Abel - even though he had nothing to do with the death or Merlitz.
They have taken the Oracles word at face value, found a 'Cubi at Lost Lake, and have decided that he is guilty, and now are trying to be his executioners. And if they actually do realize that he is innocent, then they would likely think anything of their actions - even if they had just killed him. And I think they will use any excuse to try and kill Abel simply because he is an Incubus. I mean even mythos "know" that Incubi eat babies and steal dreams and stuff.
We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him! I am ridiculously excited right now.
Well, considering things--what has happened that Abel's presence was essential for stopping? Or was there something that was going to happen, and Abel's being there kept it from happening?
Nite seems pretty hellbent on this. Sure they may "know everything" but they're almost never completely straight forward. He seems not to notice the Phoenix never even gave a name to go along with "Cubi".
Personally, I'm wondering how exactly what Fa'Lina says ties into 'other Cubi from Lost Lake.' It does seem likely that there's some other 'Cubi from Lost Lake' involved somehow, though it currently feels like we're still missing something, to me.
Hmm... Maybe this isn't all the flashback has to tell us. Maybe we'll see more Monday... *waits*
Quote from: Infranscia on August 10, 2012, 01:23:44 AM
Personally, I'm wondering how exactly what Fa'Lina says ties into 'other Cubi from Lost Lake.' It does seem likely that there's some other 'Cubi from Lost Lake' involved somehow, though it currently feels like we're still missing something, to me.
Hmm... Maybe this isn't all the flashback has to tell us. Maybe we'll see more Monday... *waits*
Well I think it would almost be a given that there are more 'Cubi in Lost Lake' than we have actually seen. Lost Lake' seems to be a large area. Probability alone would say that there would be more than one 'Cubi in the entire territory.
They are also shapeshifters, and it would be in their interests to hide the fact that they are 'Cubi from casual racists and anti-wing groups.
Quote from: Infranscia on August 10, 2012, 01:23:44 AM
Personally, I'm wondering how exactly what Fa'Lina says ties into 'other Cubi from Lost Lake.' It does seem likely that there's some other 'Cubi from Lost Lake' involved somehow, though it currently feels like we're still missing something, to me.
Hmm... Maybe this isn't all the flashback has to tell us. Maybe we'll see more Monday... *waits*
Probably the tie-in is between Merlitz being dead and Falina talking about 'they' being dead. On a more direct level, maybe Fa'Lina was saying the Lost Lake crew, or possibly just Destania and Dan, would be the ones dead, and were going to be killed by another Cubi. So in other words - a Cubi from Lost Lake killed Merlitz, and if Abel hadn't gone to intervene in some way, that Cubi would kill whoever else Falina was talking about too. Or else it is an indirect thing and Abel wasn't able to prevent Merlitz's death, thus he killed him indirectly (or Dan/Destania were indirectly responsible for being the real intended targets, and Merlitz was killed because someone thought he might be one of them in disguise).
Oh wait, maybe it's whoever's been picking off the other Cubi that Wildy's been investigating (after all, we know it's around the Lost Lake region at least, so it's not too far fetched to think it's another Cubi). And the next target would have been Dan (or Dan AND Destania (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1277.php)). So Abel's going to be able to prevent that from happening.
This would make sense that "another cubi from Lost Lake" would make Abel think of what Falina said, if she was referring to Destania then as well as Dan being the ones targeted (since Destania is another cubi from Lost Lake).
ALSOhttp://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1265.php
We're at chapter 30! I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I just noticed it :p
"Cubi from Lost Lake" includes Abel, yes, but also Dan, Aaryanna, and Destania too.
Also, I may be blanking here, but while the Lost Lake Inn is a landmark, isn't Lost Lake itself, you know, a geographical feature on the landscape, meaning that "Cubi from Lost Lake" would include the above four, plus ANY AND ALL OTHER CUBI that might be living in the GENERAL VICINITY?
As plans go, charging into the Inn and killing the first Cubi they found was, at best (meaning they were right), irresponsible, and, at worst (meaning any other situation), unprovoked murder.
Or, as they call it in the adventuring industry, "business as usual." Man, things got dark.
Hmmmmmm...Maybe this might be another reason why Fa'lina didn't like Merlitz. Being the trigger through a stupid action and getting his friends killed because of it.
"They will be dead in less then a month" does seem so ominous. I'm going to take it she means all those that came and didn't stay at Saia. That's Dan, Wildy, The Rats, Mab, Merlitz, Jyrras and Pip.
That's quite an impressive hit list to the cast.
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 12:56:32 AM
They have taken the Oracles word at face value, found a 'Cubi at Lost Lake, and have decided that he is guilty, and now are trying to be his executioners.
I think that's easily resolved, if only by threats from Wildy. After all, she now knows who they are and how to locate them.
EDIT:
Oh, or from Abel: "Says the person who was trying to murder Alexsi over it."
What is curious though, is that the impression Amber has been giving us lately (including Abel's own opinion) that 'Cubi aren't usually very murderous. They're highly strung, emotionally sensitive and they need to be around living people to feed. They can easily be
pushed to violence, and that might be what happened to Merlitz, but one planning a massacre as is implied here, that seems to be pretty rare.
Hmm. The Blunt Object Brigade needs a lesson in listening to the exact wording of anything an Oracle says.
"From Lost Lake" does not mean "The First Cubi Who Punches One Of You For Knocking Out His Employer and Happens To Be."
It's like the Oracles have to be as cryptic and easily misinterpreted as possible, even when being blunt.
Personally, I think the Oracles are up to something. In fact, I'm guessing this is their play to kill Jyrras by eliminating his friends first, or some other long and convoluted scheme.
Quote from: Hariman on August 10, 2012, 03:28:36 AM
Hmm. The Blunt Object Brigade needs a lesson in listening to the exact wording of anything an Oracle says.
"From Lost Lake" does not mean "The First Cubi Who Punches One Of You For Knocking Out His Employer and Happens To Be."
It's like the Oracles have to be as cryptic and easily misinterpreted as possible, even when being blunt.
Personally, I think the Oracles are up to something. In fact, I'm guessing this is their play to kill Jyrras by eliminating his friends first, or some other long and convoluted scheme.
Do they want to kill Jyrras? I was under the impression that they were more of a "What is is what must be" sort of race. Of the creature council, they have probably the least reason to want him dead, considering their lifestyle.
Actually, a better comeback for Abel would be "Well, there were two others here, but they went back to the 'Cubi Academy".
One thing that had me puzzled is the fact that Abel was eager to get back to the Academy. Though thinking about it, Dan is most likely the nexus of the trouble, so perhaps he assumed that the inn would be safe while Dan was away.
It's possible that the Oracle's statement is referring to Dan and/or Destania, in that the Dragons killed Merlitz to try and find Destania, [thus killed Merlitz indirectly].
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 04:26:34 AM
One thing that had me puzzled is the fact that Abel was eager to get back to the Academy. Though thinking about it, Dan is most likely the nexus of the trouble, so perhaps he assumed that the inn would be safe while Dan was away.
Actually it is because Abel works for Alexsi, and she would not let him take a the time off because:
a. He did not have enough leave saved up (see here (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1218.php))
b. It was coming up to the busiest part of the year for her business (see here (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1219.php))
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 04:26:34 AM
Actually, a better comeback for Abel would be "Well, there were two others here, but they went back to the 'Cubi Academy".
An even better comeback would come from Wildy "Yes, there are many other Cubi here in Lost Lake' - and several of them have been murdered."
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 04:35:29 AM
Actually it is because Abel works for Alexsi, and she would not let him take a the time off because:
True, but misses the point. Yes, she stopped Abel from leaving, but why did he
ask to leave if he knew he had to be there to keep the main cast alive?
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 04:45:48 AM
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 04:35:29 AM
Actually it is because Abel works for Alexsi, and she would not let him take a the time off because:
True, but misses the point. Yes, she stopped Abel from leaving, but why did he ask to leave if he knew he had to be there to keep the main cast alive?
I guess because he did not really want to be outside of SAIA at the time. Also, Fa'lina never said how long he had to be there to keep them alive - he may of though it was simply a matter of turning up for x many days/months and then he could go back to SAIA.
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 04:46:50 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 04:45:48 AM
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 04:35:29 AM
Actually it is because Abel works for Alexsi, and she would not let him take a the time off because:
True, but misses the point. Yes, she stopped Abel from leaving, but why did he ask to leave if he knew he had to be there to keep the main cast alive?
I guess because he did not really want to be outside of SAIA at the time.
Yeah, but he wouldn't feel very secure doing that if he knew he was leaving everyone to be murdered in their beds.
Quote from: lycaonpictus77 on August 10, 2012, 04:48:00 AM
Yeah, but he wouldn't feel very secure doing that if he knew he was leaving everyone to be murdered in their beds.
Perhaps. He does claim to be evil though. And it is hard to judge his intentions. Unless you are Jyrrus and meep his nose! :mowmeep
What's this? A DMFA strip without a funny punchline? Well, it was needed.
Also, is Abel deflecting all the magic completely in the 2nd panel, or is it doing a bit of damage before bouncing off?
Ohhhhh. This is why Abel went to town on Pyroduck, isn't it? He thought he was the threat.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 05:27:55 AM
Ohhhhh. This is why Abel went to town on Pyroduck, isn't it? He thought he was the threat.
Seems that way, since Fa'Lina even seemed to think (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_740.php) a dragon would be the threat.
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 07:18:07 AM
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 05:27:55 AM
Ohhhhh. This is why Abel went to town on Pyroduck, isn't it? He thought he was the threat.
Seems that way, since Fa'Lina even seemed to think (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_740.php) a dragon would be the threat.
Or did she just think that he would be facing off against a dragon at some point, and it wasn't the main threat?
Quote from: TacticalError on August 10, 2012, 08:06:17 AM
Or did she just think that he would be facing off against a dragon at some point, and it wasn't the main threat?
Well, considering that she said that "the second any dragon finds out Dan is from Cyra's Clan they are going to try to kill him...except for one dragon. He's nice."
So dragons are likely going to be a main threat at some point.
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
Quote from: Infranscia on August 10, 2012, 01:23:44 AM
Personally, I'm wondering how exactly what Fa'Lina says ties into 'other Cubi from Lost Lake.' It does seem likely that there's some other 'Cubi from Lost Lake' involved somehow, though it currently feels like we're still missing something, to me.
Hmm... Maybe this isn't all the flashback has to tell us. Maybe we'll see more Monday... *waits*
Probably the tie-in is between Merlitz being dead and Falina talking about 'they' being dead. On a more direct level, maybe Fa'Lina was saying the Lost Lake crew, or possibly just Destania and Dan, would be the ones dead, and were going to be killed by another Cubi. So in other words - a Cubi from Lost Lake killed Merlitz, and if Abel hadn't gone to intervene in some way, that Cubi would kill whoever else Falina was talking about too. Or else it is an indirect thing and Abel wasn't able to prevent Merlitz's death, thus he killed him indirectly (or Dan/Destania were indirectly responsible for being the real intended targets, and Merlitz was killed because someone thought he might be one of them in disguise).
Oh wait, maybe it's whoever's been picking off the other Cubi that Wildy's been investigating (after all, we know it's around the Lost Lake region at least, so it's not too far fetched to think it's another Cubi). And the next target would have been Dan (or Dan AND Destania (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1277.php)). So Abel's going to be able to prevent that from happening.
This would make sense that "another cubi from Lost Lake" would make Abel think of what Falina said, if she was referring to Destania then as well as Dan being the ones targeted (since Destania is another cubi from Lost Lake).
ALSO
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1265.php
We're at chapter 30! I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I just noticed it :p
i like you. you're full of logic and thinks. i actually came over here to type up something along these lines and MY GOD SOMEONE NEW(?) DID IT FOR ME
as a reward for your thinks nino i will draw you a thing
Prophecy is never as reliable as you would think. That makes me wonder has the phoenix race ever suffered as a concequence for their vagueness?
Hmm... that sixth panel there...
I have to say, this plot is getting really interesting. :3
Quote from: RJ on August 10, 2012, 10:51:17 AM
Hmm... that sixth panel there...
Yes, I thought it was a nice touch.
Just a timeline question though...I know it's hard to figure, but it seems like it has to have been more than a month since Dan, Abel et al left SAIA the first time. The whole bit with Kria, DP, Regina, Lorenda was over the course of at least a week (Even if just starting from when DP was resurrected, Dan had several days to sweat over Kria's invite to dinner), just for starters. So it seems unlikely that the dead within a month refers to this fight with the B-O-B.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 05:27:55 AM
Ohhhhh. This is why Abel went to town on Pyroduck, isn't it? He thought he was the threat.
There's also the fact that Abel never left the Inn for very long if he could help it that would probably have to be reconsidered after this.
Several times now (in his chapter) I have muttered "S**t just got real".
Honestly, If Amber keeps this up, the forth wall is toast!
Quote from: Plotting on August 10, 2012, 08:08:46 AM
Quote from: TacticalError on August 10, 2012, 08:06:17 AM
Or did she just think that he would be facing off against a dragon at some point, and it wasn't the main threat?
Well, considering that she said that "the second any dragon finds out Dan is from Cyra's Clan they are going to try to kill him...except for one dragon. He's nice."
So dragons are likely going to be a main threat at some point.
So is Fa'lina talking about this instance separately or as part of a larger incident?
There is one final thing I would like to say about this page before I go of line and start doing the things I need to be doing today.
I like the facial expressions in Panel four and five. With how similar their both drawn, you can see the difference too. Fourth you can see both the agitation, annoyance and slight anger at the stupidity to have to fight and be accused by the BOB to protect Alexsi. While the fifth panel just shows just the irritation of being sent away from the academy.
The facial expression also shows that Abel certainly come a lot further then back from those days. I thank Amber for drawing such faces. :)
Quote from: icarus on August 10, 2012, 09:25:58 AM
i like you. you're full of logic and thinks. i actually came over here to type up something along these lines and MY GOD SOMEONE NEW(?) DID IT FOR ME
as a reward for your thinks nino i will draw you a thing
Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?
Quote from: Aganerral on August 10, 2012, 11:05:06 AM
Just a timeline question though...I know it's hard to figure, but it seems like it has to have been more than a month since Dan, Abel et al left SAIA the first time.
You know, Fa'Lina came and told Abel (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1226.php) her two-month predictive ability (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Ab_058.php) (also seen here (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_740.php)) was ending... so it's almost certainly already been at least month, so that window of time would have come and gone. Something about Abel being there already prevented their death... maybe when they went to go rescue Alexsi and Abel helped get the whole 'show off Lost Lake' thing done (maybe Dan would have stayed but not pretending to be Alexsi and alerted the wrong person to his presence?).
(I've been re-reading a lot of story arcs lately, which is why I've been able to find so many references without having to dig for an hour :p)
I suspect Fa'Lina means they might have gone digging into Merlitz sooner of Abel wasn't there to fob them off and anything with wings could have potentially come under fire. Mean God knows what'd happened without a stand in there to help cover his absence given they were already Cubi checking at the time and have already shown little regard in how good they appear to be. I do however like the theory that a Cubi is indeed the cause but due to someone out for info on that Cubi not the Cubi themselves.
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:26:12 PM
Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?
whatever manner of thing you desire. i dunno if you have art site accounts or anything though
I think Abel saved their lives when telling Dan how to hide his headwings.
Quote from: lycaonpictus77 on August 10, 2012, 12:57:42 AM
We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!
And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)
Quote from: Hariman on August 10, 2012, 03:28:36 AMIt's like the Oracles have to be as cryptic and easily misinterpreted as possible, even when being blunt.
Personally, I think the Oracles are up to something. In fact, I'm guessing this is their play to kill Jyrras by eliminating his friends first, or some other long and convoluted scheme.
While I think (stated in the previous thread) that the more blunt they are, the less truthful they may be.
Quote from: AmigaDragon on August 10, 2012, 05:53:50 PM
Quote from: lycaonpictus77 on August 10, 2012, 12:57:42 AM
We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!
And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)
On being related to Dee, Fa'lina put the framed clan marking she clouted Dan with (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_503.php) into the room he was sharing with Abel so very likely if the Folder of info (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_426.php) Fa'lina originally gave him on Dan didn't tell him, that would have been enough.
Quote from: AmigaDragon on August 10, 2012, 05:53:50 PM
Quote from: lycaonpictus77 on August 10, 2012, 12:57:42 AM
We FINALLY get to see what she said to convince him!
And why would he care? He doesn't really know any of them at that time and all along professes "no desire" to make friends. Does he even know Dan is Destania's son at that point? (Clan mark hadn't shown up yet to show Cyra)
His reaction to the name "Ti'Fiona" in http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_426.php (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_426.php) and http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_527.php (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_527.php) seem to indicate he has at least a basal attachment to Dan or Dan's family. And given what we know from http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1194.php (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1194.php), I think it's fairly safe to assume he feels a indebted to, or a kinship with, the Ti'Fiona family.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 03:09:46 AM
What is curious though, is that the impression Amber has been giving us lately (including Abel's own opinion) that 'Cubi aren't usually very murderous. They're highly strung, emotionally sensitive and they need to be around living people to feed. They can easily be pushed to violence, and that might be what happened to Merlitz, but one planning a massacre as is implied here, that seems to be pretty rare.
I don't think we've been getting that impression at all. As Abel said, "the majority of Cubi are jerks," and my guess would be the standard for "jerkiness" is a bit higher in a world where thrill killing is a common pastime and shoot-first-ask-questions-never vigilantism is a way of life. We've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends, and Aaryana and Destania barely need a reason, and no one at SAIA seems to do more than tut until they get splashed with the repercussions. Sure, Abel and most likely Mink would never harm a being without cause, and of course Dan wouldn't, but what about the rest of the academy? However friendly the Cubi we meet at the academy are, isn't Aaryana friendly with those in the academy, and those she considered friends outside? My guess would be that she's more indicative of the typical Cubi lifestyle on the outside than Mink's mother.
And even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_814.php)? (Although granted, this guy (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php) seems to be doing all right...)
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 10, 2012, 03:09:46 AM
What is curious though, is that the impression Amber has been giving us lately (including Abel's own opinion) that 'Cubi aren't usually very murderous. They're highly strung, emotionally sensitive and they need to be around living people to feed. They can easily be pushed to violence, and that might be what happened to Merlitz, but one planning a massacre as is implied here, that seems to be pretty rare.
As Fa'Lina herself said to Abel, even those of his own clan, and those like it who have an affinity for the darker emotions, tend to avoid direct violence/ killing, because 'the dead are not unhappy'. It would be entirely counterproductive for any 'Cubi to willfully destroy his/her only food source, except in cases of self defense.
Hey guys.
I don't wanna say the cubi is ....
But I'm pretty sure it's
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/Turnsky/Sketches/anizmeme.jpg)
...is it bad that I now think Giorgio Tsoukalos might be Aniz?
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 10, 2012, 10:54:47 PM
...is it bad that I now think Giorgio Tsoukalos might be Aniz?
No, that's definitely canon now.
Quote from: icarus on August 10, 2012, 04:31:16 PM
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:26:12 PM
Oooh, that sounds awesome. What thing will you draw me?
whatever manner of thing you desire. i dunno if you have art site accounts or anything though
This is mine: http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/gallery/
What kinds of things do you make for people? Can I see your's? Also, I can make you one of these suckers in return if you want it:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Lorenda_2011.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Abel_2008.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Dan_2008.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Wildy_2007.gif)
:D
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 10, 2012, 08:39:18 PM
I don't think we've been getting that impression at all. As Abel said, "the majority of Cubi are jerks,"
"[They]
might not kill you straight up, but they all have plenty of 'Cubi pride... and the morals that come with it."
And
so far, Dan's return visit to the Academy has been pleasant. No, the first one wasn't, but I do think that the story has changed slightly in the telling.
For that matter, Abel's opinion is a little suspect anyway - he's got a misery affinity, has been a pawn of Destania and Aniz and hasn't really been happy for centuries from what Amber's said. I would not be surprised if Abel's only remembering the ugly side of things at the academy because of this.
QuoteWe've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,
We've seen Aniz (after being driven insane by Hizell) fly into a 'Cubi rage-state after being attacked, and then immediately regret it afterwards and panic. This was almost certainly the state Abel referred to of 'Cubi running purely off emotions and not thinking.
Aniz absolutely did murder Cid and take his place. Again, he was criminally insane
and Destania's ex. He was so far gone that even Fa'Lina couldn't understand him anymore and absolutely not a typical 'Cubi. It's worth mentioning that if Jakob's right (and he's not all smiles and roses himself in his own canon) this kind of replacement is a very rare occurrence, at least after the wars.
I will agree that it may well have been more common before them - 'Cubi seem to have been a fairly unpleasant lot before they got their comeuppance.
And again, that makes a lot of sense - if you're part of a race that's being persecuted and reduced to under about 30'000 worldwide population, most of whom are hiding for their lives, are you really going to run around killing people for S's and G's and stirring up trouble? If you teach a school for such a race, are you going to teach your students that anything they want goes? IMHO a successful school would teach that they have to keep their noses clean to avoid being hunted down like animals.
As for Cyra, we haven't seen her kill anyone - but we've heard of her attack a dragon to achieve her own ends. That resulted in the destruction of the entire city, but it absolutely was not her plan since she wanted to
rule the people inside it, not turn them to shiny statues. And that was before the war, back when 'Cubi weren't fighting extinction.
Quoteand Aaryana and Destania barely need a reason,
Yeah. Aary was Destania's protege, though. Early on in my writings (2005 onwards) I made the mistake of assuming she was a typical 'Cubi, and from what we've seen since in SAIA that appears not to be the case these days. IMHO she's a bit of a maniac who appears to have lapped up Destania's teachings. Even Abel says that she's atypical (e.g. for not hiding her wings) though being rivals, he may well be biased when it comes to her.
FWIW Abel decries Destania as being entirely evil and the source of most things 'Cubi are accused of. She's certainly not typical either.
I think, that in summary, there's a problem of bias - we're only seeing the
interesting ones and not the majority.
QuoteAnd even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_814.php)? (Although granted, this guy (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php) seems to be doing all right...)
Two things. Firstly, that's from 2005, and I honestly think that Amber's changed direction a bit since then. It's known that Abel has diverged from his original design.
Secondly, and crucially important - Fa'Lina has foresight. She uses this to try and ensure the best for everyone, in the long view. What happens in the short term may not so nice. However, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that Destania in the Academy where Fa'Lina can keep an eye on her and prevent her from doing too much damage was better than her running unrestrained.
Now. Since then, Destania
has left. She then had the responsibility of Dan and Edward to keep her out of trouble for a while, and now she's engaged in her secret anti-dragon project. What I'm saying is that it's very possible that Fa'Lina - with her foresight - sees this project as the best available future for the 'Cubi race. In which case, Destania's role at the Academy may have been a device to ensure she remained safely there until the preordained Right Moment.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AM
I think, that in summary, there's a problem of bias - we're only seeing the interesting ones and not the majority.
While I understand what you mean by typical and atypical 'Cubi I think it would be very difficult to say what is truly typical for a 'Cubi. Consider for example the sheer variety of topics that an individual 'Cubi might study while at SAIA, which includes, but is not limited to, torture, breaking and entering, shape shifting, geology, grass growing, literature, basket weaving, home-ec (apparently not a class one should choose! :P), etc.
How does one decide what is and is not typical for a 'Cubi when the interests of a 'Cubi can be as varied as this?
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AM
Now. Since then, Destania has left. She then had the responsibility of Dan and Edward to keep her out of trouble for a while, and now she's engaged in her secret anti-dragon project. What I'm saying is that it's very possible that Fa'Lina - with her foresight - sees this project as the best available future for the 'Cubi race. In which case, Destania's role at the Academy may have been a device to ensure she remained safely there until the preordained Right Moment.
This makes me wonder - what would Fa'lina consider to be the best outcome for the 'Cubi as a species? A world where 'Cubi can simply live unmolested? Or a world where the 'Cubi are able to be ultimate jerks who deserve their comeuppance, like it was prior to the 'Cubi/Dragon war?
One the one hand, she does seem to care about others, and has the best interests of others close to her heart. But this seems to be apply more to 'Cubi and Creatures, not Beings. She does not mind Beings being used in her Academy for torture lessons - like Destania used to do. She has also stated in the past that her clan is not dedicated to peaceful behavior. So there seems to be a dark side to Fa'lina.
EditAnd if the anti-Dragon scheme of Destania is in the best interests of the 'Cubi then where does Pyroduck fit into it? I mean, he is like a son to Fa'Lina, and she wants to get grand babies out of him. She could not possibly want anything bad to happen to him, right?
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 11:01:21 PM
This is mine: http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/gallery/
What kinds of things do you make for people? Can I see your's? Also, I can make you one of these suckers in return if you want it:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Lorenda_2011.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Abel_2008.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Dan_2008.gif)(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z201/Kattuccino/Wildy_2007.gif)
:D
aw you make those? those are hella adorable.
if you have a particular character i'll doodle 'em up real nice for ya. here's my stuff.
http://not-fun.deviantart.com/gallery/
Hmm, are we sure that's Nite's attack he is deflecting? His attacks are more green it seems, he's deflecting blue attacks. Could be that Amazon with her new MacGyver'd tazer spear <.<;;
IMHO I get a wisp from that flashback that Able might know who this mystery Cubi is. He's been around awhile, and it could very well be likely that other cubi have lived there before the main cast was established.
It has been stated that unless they are really powerful or mentally unstable Cubi hide their identity in public. Out in the "Cottage country" of Lost Lake you could easily change identities as the years pass by. With no really being the wiser.
Aniz so far seems to be dead, but can't rule him out. However I do wonder.... what about his other mentally unstable kids besides Able. Falina seemed to indicate he usually dumps them at SAIA messed up. Though he wasn't allowed to have more since the "incident", it's suggested he had others before Able?
Out of curiosity I wonder if Falina's future sense only applies to students, or to anyone who visited SAIA. Could she have foreseen Merlitz's fate as well?
Quote from: YawnPB on August 11, 2012, 05:59:53 PM
Hmm, are we sure that's Nite's attack he is deflecting? His attacks are more green it seems, he's deflecting blue attacks. Could be that Amazon with her new MacGyver'd tazer spear <.<;;
I believe that's some of Pegasus's magic--he was using it in tandem with his sword earlier.
My first reply ever! Big fan of your work for almost 5 years! Anyways, I must say that was one heck of a plot-twist (was it?) bombshell you dropped, Amber! :)
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AM"[They] might not kill you straight up, but they all have plenty of 'Cubi pride... and the morals that come with it."
Literally the panel before (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_657.php), he refers to Cubi as "the race most likely to rip out [a being's] spine at random."
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMAnd so far, Dan's return visit to the Academy has been pleasant. No, the first one wasn't, but I do think that the story has changed slightly in the telling.
Sure,
at the academy. I expect that the academy, where everyone is there at Fa'Lina's pleasure and has every incentive to play nice, is not the best place to gauge their usual mores.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMQuoteWe've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,
We've seen Aniz (after being driven insane by Hizell) fly into a 'Cubi rage-state after being attacked, and then immediately regret it afterwards and panic. This was almost certainly the state Abel referred to of 'Cubi running purely off emotions and not thinking.
He panicked because of the damage he'd done to his plans, not what he'd actually done. He barely seemed to care that he'd killed an innocent Mythos; he was scared of how Fa'Lina would react to her death. Moreover...
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMQuoteWe've seen that Aniz and Cyra think little of killing beings to achieve their ends,
Aniz absolutely did murder Cid and take his place. Again, he was criminally insane and Destania's ex. He was so far gone that even Fa'Lina couldn't understand him anymore and absolutely not a typical 'Cubi. It's worth mentioning that if Jakob's right (and he's not all smiles and roses himself in his own canon) this kind of replacement is a very rare occurrence, at least after the wars.
...he didn't give a whit about killing Cid, or terrorizing May, or basically raping her for decades, or using her as a meat shield. It wasn't without purpose, but the means far dwarfed the end.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMAs for Cyra, we haven't seen her kill anyone - but we've heard of her attack a dragon to achieve her own ends. That resulted in the destruction of the entire city, but it absolutely was not her plan since she wanted to rule the people inside it, not turn them to shiny statues. And that was before the war, back when 'Cubi weren't fighting extinction.
She can't have thought she could take the city without making a few examples of its inhabitants. Again, I'm not suggesting that Cyra was going around killing for fun like Aary, Kria, or Regina, but I very much doubt she wasn't more than willing to get blood on her hands, just not quite that much.
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMQuoteAnd even where Fa'Lina is concerned - whom did she end up getting Dee for her classes, anyway (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_814.php)? (Although granted, this guy (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php) seems to be doing all right...)
Two things. Firstly, that's from 2005, and I honestly think that Amber's changed direction a bit since then. It's known that Abel has diverged from his original design.
2007 - the second one is from 2005, but I mainly linked that as a joke. From his calmness and the fact that that doesn't appear to be a classroom, I very much doubt that's a torture class - if it's a class at all, it's probably an S&M class. (Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 11, 2012, 06:53:19 AMSecondly, and crucially important - Fa'Lina has foresight. She uses this to try and ensure the best for everyone, in the long view. What happens in the short term may not so nice. However, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that Destania in the Academy where Fa'Lina can keep an eye on her and prevent her from doing too much damage was better than her running unrestrained.
Dunno - I have a hard time thinking that having hear teach others to act like herself is better than just leaving her to her own devices, especially as quiet as she's been lately. If nothing else, you'd think she could get her to teach courses that don't involve torture, rape, chopping up adventurers, etc., especially if it's as central as you imply in perpetuating a false stereotype over the centuries.
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 12, 2012, 03:50:02 AM
(Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)
Ambaargh mentioned in the forum somewhere, it's a mythos, not a dragon. Sorry I've not got the interest in looking up the link, but it might be referenced in the wiki...
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 12, 2012, 03:50:02 AM
Literally the panel before (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_657.php), he refers to Cubi as "the race most likely to rip out [a being's] spine at random."
Again, Abel is not the best person to ask about 'Cubi. Probably because of Aniz and his own affinity.
QuoteSure, at the academy. I expect that the academy, where everyone is there at Fa'Lina's pleasure and has every incentive to play nice, is not the best place to gauge their usual mores.
Perhaps. But the purpose of the Academy is to train 'Cubi to survive in the world outside. That doesn't happen if your students go around killing people.
QuoteHe panicked because of the damage he'd done to his plans, not what he'd actually done. He barely seemed to care that he'd killed an innocent Mythos; he was scared of how Fa'Lina would react to her death. Moreover...
He apologised to Abel for killing Henya. It's about the only thing he actually did apologise for. Granted he said that May was worthless in the same breath.
But at the end of the day, Aniz was not behaving normally for a 'Cubi. You cannot hold up a madman whose actions have upset at least two clan leaders as an everyday example of the 'Cubi race. (And ultimately, we don't have any everyday examples to point at :-/ )
Quote...he didn't give a whit about killing Cid, or terrorizing May, or basically raping her for decades, or using her as a meat shield. It wasn't without purpose, but the means far dwarfed the end.
See above. The only person who was favourably impressed by Aniz' behaviour was Destania, who wanted to take credit for it.
QuoteShe can't have thought she could take the city without making a few examples of its inhabitants. Again, I'm not suggesting that Cyra was going around killing for fun like Aary, Kria, or Regina, but I very much doubt she wasn't more than willing to get blood on her hands, just not quite that much.
Granted.
Quote2007 - the second one is from 2005, but I mainly linked that as a joke. From his calmness and the fact that that doesn't appear to be a classroom, I very much doubt that's a torture class - if it's a class at all, it's probably an S&M class. (Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)
The 2007 one is about Fa'Lina
objecting to Destania's methods and putting her foot down. It didn't seem to support what you were saying...
QuoteDunno - I have a hard time thinking that having hear teach others to act like herself is better than just leaving her to her own devices, especially as quiet as she's been lately. If nothing else, you'd think she could get her to teach courses that don't involve torture, rape, chopping up adventurers, etc., especially if it's as central as you imply in perpetuating a false stereotype over the centuries.
Well, it's interesting to note that Amber mentioned that not all
'Cubi like Fa'Lina. Some think of her as a saint, others a monster. IIRC this isn't helped by the fact she tends to adopt a different personality depending on who she's talking to in order to help them reach their full potential. With Aary ('Cubi raised, traditionalist) she'll giggle and joke about decapitating Beings. With Mink, or Abel or someone raised as a Being, she'll be more sympathetic and Pro-Being.
People seeing her do both with tend to get the impression she's manipulative and sinister, and she might well be. But her Academy gives 'Cubi a significant advantage in surviving outside and so it's widely used.
Ah yes, forgot about Pegasus. Colour pretty much matches too.
IMHO Cubi tend to be bad fighters because of the emotionally reckless fighting. Fighting a rookie they might get away with a blind rush. However an experienced fighter can simply goad them into a berserker rush like a bull. Then hello mr. pointy under the cape, bye bye Cubi <-x.x-<<
Quote from: Tapewolf on August 12, 2012, 07:48:51 AM
The 2007 one is about Fa'Lina objecting to Destania's methods and putting her foot down. It didn't seem to support what you were saying...
That's just it - she put her foot down at Destania using
children in her torture class. So whom
did she use?
Also, forgot to mention - although Jakob does say it's "uncommon" for Cubi to do what Aniz did, it's at least common enough for him to recognize the signs, have had pamphlets printed, and assume Dan's story was more like Abel's than the more Hanlon-ey truth.
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 12, 2012, 02:03:23 PM
That's just it - she put her foot down at Destania using children in her torture class. So whom did she use?
We don't know. It's quite possible that she didn't get any. Amber's mentioned that Destania and Aary actually have a pretty low body count, and Dan has more (if interested, see: http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,8729.msg358453.html#msg358453 ), so I'd say that Fa'Lina has done a reasonable job of keeping her under some kind of control.
What we do know is that SAIA has Beings on staff (and also a couple of students with 'Cubi siblings from what I've heard). You're not going to get that situation much if they're used as fodder.
QuoteAlso, forgot to mention - although Jakob does say it's "uncommon" for Cubi to do what Aniz did, it's at least common enough for him to recognize the signs, have had pamphlets printed, and assume Dan's story was more like Abel's than the more Hanlon-ey truth.
Perhaps. Or perhaps it's a common rumour.
There are plenty of negative and sinister-esque classes that happen at the Academy. Because at the end of the day Fa'Lina had to decide "teach only the classes I want and have no one come to the Academy because clans will think I'm trying to brainwash their children into pacifists." and "Allow courses I don't approve of personally that other clans will want to." By and Large Fa'Lina has to maintain a fairly neutral stance on things because the Academy is a place of varying personality and clans. And yes, some of those clans are pretty vicious and don't really help that much when it comes to the races' reputation. This usually tends to happen with leaderless clans simply because there is a lack of direction and focus. However, leaderless clan members then also have the most potential to reconsider versus a Cubi who will often be more loyal to their clan's goals. So yes, there are the various nasty courses, but most of them have some pretty hefty regulations. Most clans prefer to simply teach such things themselves off-school since it allows less regulation and rules.
As for the comic where Abel is giving Dan-in-the-wagon a tour, A: the couple on the rack was a cameo of a married duo hence the quirkiness. B: the creature in that panel was not a dragon but a Mythos and I weep everytime at how I didn't give it nearly enough eyes since everyone keeps thinking it's a dragon. :cry
Quote from: icarus on August 11, 2012, 12:42:31 PM
aw you make those? those are hella adorable.
if you have a particular character i'll doodle 'em up real nice for ya. here's my stuff.
http://not-fun.deviantart.com/gallery/
Thanks!! Your gallery is AWESOME. How about one of my Cubi designs from this pic (http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/art/Trois-Cubi-320788450) (unfinished). I don't have a fursona or anything but I love these gals. They're supposed to have backwings but I haven't put them in yet (pixel art takes a really long time).
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 12, 2012, 03:50:02 AM
(your entire post)
I feel like you're getting a vibe that's not necessarily there, like you're interpreting the comic too seriously or cynically or something. I know some of it's heavy stuff (like torture and stuff), but I don't know, not that heavy? Certainly saying Aniz was, uhh, assaulting May without her consent in a sexual manner is definitely stretching the truth a little. Yes, he was lying about who he was, but I didn't get the feeling anything rough was going on in that manner, and it's sort of not a good comparison to compare that to, you know. Well you just can't say she was terrorized and raped for decades, that's a real black and white and not accurate at all view of what went on, because their relationship before the reveal seemed pretty good, even if it was faked on Aniz's part.
Okay, I'm having to wonder just how stupid Nitemyst is. (And I'm hoping I got the right name.) The Phoenix culture is not based on relaying information. It is based on obscuring it. Even though what they say is technically true, deriving a useful truth is virtually impossible. The Phoenix also never said anything about a cubi at Lost Lake. She (?) spoke of a cubi from Lost Lake. There are regulars there who can confirm he is from someplace else and so cannot be anyone they might be looking for. Plus, if there were only one cubi from Lost Lake, the Phoenix would probably have had to say "the cubi from Lost Lake," though that might be an over-analysis on my part.
is it possible Fa'Llina meant Dan overreacting or otherwise going out of control in that month?
also just wondering, are there any 'Cubi clans with a Chaos affinity?
Quote from: Pvblivs on August 12, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
Okay, I'm having to wonder just how stupid Nitemyst is. (And I'm hoping I got the right name.) The Phoenix culture is not based on relaying information. It is based on obscuring it. Even though what they say is technically true, deriving a useful truth is virtually impossible.
If this were true, they'd be out of business. Clearly adventurers
do get useful information from their riddles, since they do keep coming, albeit reluctantly, and if it's a matter of course to check with them whether lost adventurers are alive, "the life of Destania has ended" has got to be pretty much the upper limit for their obfuscation. Nitemyst's only mistake here is not considering the fact that there's almost guaranteed to be "some other Lost Lake Cubi floating about somewhere."
Remember "the star that shines withers the rose of midnight." That was the response given first. Teasing something useful out of that is not within reason. And Pyroduck never did find his ball. Plus, I'm not even sure if the Phoenixes care whether they get business or not. But this comic (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_301.php) really leads me to believe that useful information is not what you are going to get from them.
But the riddle with the ball wasn't really that hard. And I don't think "the Star (http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1194.php) that shines withers the rose of midnight" was the end of it, just the point where Aary said "screw this."
Quote from: llearch n'n'daCorna on August 12, 2012, 05:21:01 AMQuote from: Lying Foo on August 12, 2012, 03:50:02 AM(Although I am kind of holding out hope for an explanation of a friggin' dragon at SAIA.)
Ambaargh mentioned in the forum somewhere, it's a mythos, not a dragon. Sorry I've not got the interest in looking up the link, but it might be referenced in the wiki...
This makes me wonder... Has Pyro ever been to SAIA, and for how long? Just living there or taking classes? Do non-cubi ever take classes there? We already know non-cubi
teach at SAIA.
Quote from: Lying Foo on August 13, 2012, 12:44:07 AM
Quote from: Pvblivs on August 12, 2012, 10:45:10 PM
Okay, The Phoenix culture is not based on relaying information. It is based on obscuring it. Even though what they say is technically true, deriving a useful truth is virtually impossible.
If this were true, they'd be out of business. Clearly adventurers do get useful information from their riddles, since they do keep coming, albeit reluctantly, and if it's a matter of course to check with them whether lost adventurers are alive, "the life of Destania has ended" has got to be pretty much the upper limit for their obfuscation.
When truth is obscured, you can glean the truth out of what you hear, or misunderstand and miss the hidden truth. I still maintain though that if it sounds like the phoenix oracles are giving plain answers, they might not be truthful.
Hmm just wondering now. Dan is sorta responsible in a sense for dealing with DP. What if Merl ran into DP and Regina? Would it then be sort of said that Dan was responsible for his death? I mean he did fail at stopping his revival and ended up having a pleasant night with his sister...
Quote from: Nino on August 12, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
How about one of my Cubi designs from this pic (http://"http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/art/Trois-Cubi-320788450") (unfinished). I don't have a fursona or anything but I love these gals. They're supposed to have backwings but I haven't put them in yet (pixel art takes a really long time).
does that one have a flower tail? and the one with the batwings and the bowl cut looks wicked cute. i think i might pick her. yes.
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1265.php
We're at chapter 30! I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I just noticed it :p
Logically the only person capable of producing a gun is Jyrras. He had those auto-turrets and has been stuck doing research to avoid the press.
Quote from: supermike on August 15, 2012, 11:39:02 AM
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1265.php
We're at chapter 30! I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I just noticed it :p
Logically the only person capable of producing a gun is Jyrras. He had those auto-turrets and has been stuck doing research to avoid the press.
actually i think guns were invent before Jyrrias but i think he mastered the building of the gun if not the use of them. remember he's a good shot as well he tranquilized Dan form a roof top from who knows how far away.,
Quote from: icarus on August 15, 2012, 10:03:44 AM
Quote from: Nino on August 12, 2012, 08:40:31 PM
How about one of my Cubi designs from this pic (http://kattuccino.deviantart.com/art/Trois-Cubi-320788450) (unfinished). I don't have a fursona or anything but I love these gals. They're supposed to have backwings but I haven't put them in yet (pixel art takes a really long time).
does that one have a flower tail? and the one with the batwings and the bowl cut looks wicked cute. i think i might pick her. yes.
Yes! It is supposed to be a mythos Cubi. Whether there are actually Mythos that look like that I didn't care :p
The bowl cut one is my favorite, so that sounds awesome :D
Quote from: e_voyager on August 15, 2012, 09:40:02 PM
Quote from: supermike on August 15, 2012, 11:39:02 AM
Quote from: Nino on August 10, 2012, 01:42:55 AM
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1265.php
We're at chapter 30! I'm not sure if this has been brought up already, but I just noticed it :p
Logically the only person capable of producing a gun is Jyrras. He had those auto-turrets and has been stuck doing research to avoid the press.
actually i think guns were invent before Jyrrias but i think he mastered the building of the gun if not the use of them. remember he's a good shot as well he tranquilized Dan form a roof top from who knows how far away.,
As mab put it:
the non-jyrras guns are (I think) muskets and flintlocks, and are viewed as an oddity and not really a weapon, as they were not viewed as a good way of killing creatures, and thus were not developed into the weapons that could actually do some damage. (I have to add that the only reason guns became widespread on Earth is because they require much less training than bows to be used effectively, but before the early 1700-s, they were worse than bows in a well trained archer's hands.)
that still lends credence to Jyrass mastering building the gun. also what kind of rifle did he use to take down Dan at the beach anyway? was it one of his own?
Quote from: e_voyager on August 16, 2012, 11:11:40 PM
that still lends credence to Jyrass mastering building the gun. also what kind of rifle did he use to take down Dan at the beach anyway? was it one of his own?
that was a tranquilizer rifle, which uses compressed air to throw out a non-lethal needle which injects sleeping drugs into the target. Also that was the "non-canon" area, soI wouldnt count anything that happened there to be canon.
wait are you saying that the beach story arch was non cannon? i admit that whole bill gates computer camp thing is a bit out there but for the entire arc to be non cannon yet referred to by so many later comics is confusing. heck twinks a cow named Lorenda and get me to the church make direct references to what happened back then as did unwilling and Abel
Quote from: e_voyager on August 17, 2012, 03:26:40 AM
wait are you saying that the beach story arch was non cannon? i admit that whole bill gates computer camp thing is a bit out there but for the entire arc to be non cannon yet referred to by so many later comics is confusing.
I think Amber's treating those as "It happened, but it might not have happened quite as presented"
ah like mab saying i'm being plot convenient to ary that one time. we don't know what she said exactly but we know she said something the instantly convinced her to drop the subject and it's up to our imagination to fill in the rest?
Quote from: e_voyager on August 17, 2012, 03:35:44 AM
ah like mab saying i'm being plot convenient to ary that one time. we don't know what she said exactly but we know she said something the instantly convinced her to drop the subject and it's up to our imagination to fill in the rest?
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,9105.msg364669.html#msg364669
...the last paragraph is the relevant one.
Quote from: e_voyager on August 17, 2012, 03:26:40 AM
wait are you saying that the beach story arch was non cannon? i admit that whole bill gates computer camp thing is a bit out there but for the entire arc to be non cannon yet referred to by so many later comics is confusing. heck twinks a cow named Lorenda and get me to the church make direct references to what happened back then as did unwilling and Abel
So wait, what you're saying is that the start of sentences, proper pronouns, story arc titles, and both the first and last name of Bill Gates don't get caps, but character names do? Also, I think that story arch was non-cannon. Maybe you think it would be better with a cannon, but it's sort of a small arch, so I don't know if it would support it well.
Thanks tape it was an enlightening link
blame spell checker nino. i rarely deal with the grammar side of thing but when i do i try to follow the most basic rules. when i use spell checker it will something cap a name like Abel but not one like bill. Lorenda was a wild card. i think i added it to the Google spell check dictionary years ago.
i also found this link (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1115.php) saying killed may leave room for interpretation believe it or not.