PS3 : hope you weren't getting one

[Saist]

http://www.gamenikki.com/g3/inTheNews/Josh.php?id=142

If you haven't heard by now, Sony's cancelled a 2006 launch for the Playstation3 in Europe. 80% of the existing console allocation will go to the US, with only 20% of the existing allocation to Japan.

Right now the allocation estimate is at 400,000 Playstation3 units for 2 continents.

Now, I don't know about you, but this is hardly a launch. This is more like a "What the hell are you thinking"

[Manawolf]

Once again, another reason to pull out my stock.  My God, Sony, what the **** are you thinking?  No one is buying this crazy **** you are pulling, no one is going to buy this crapass machine until you finally get the **** to lowball it.

[insanekaosx]

And this is why I never trusted the ps3, because I knew Sony would just mess it up over and over

[Supercheese]

It's Sony. What did you expect?

[Blazehawk]

I said a long time ago the PS3 launch would be abysmal. Looks like I'm going to be correct in that assumption.   

The Wii is all I'll be needing, as far as next-gen goes. 

[Kitsune Ascendant]

didn't microsoft do this with the 360? well, not quite that bad, but...

yep. Wii's my next-gen console. I just wish they'd... well, release the release date.

[Cvstos]

Microsoft met their initial shipment predictions but fell a little short on the shipments just after that - but they still had way more units out there than the PS3 will have at launch.  What's funny is that people complained about MS sticking with DVD instead of using HD-DVD in the XBox 360. HD-DVD uses those same blue diodes that are in shortage and are causing this Blu-Ray delay!  Looks like they were smart to stick with DVDs.

You also gotta think that Microsoft and Nintendo are elated at this news.  They'll both have many millions of units shipped and ready to sell at Christmas while PS3 will probably wind up having less than 1M units available!  The 360's manufacturing issues have been dealt with (they signed on another manufacturer) and the Wii's hardware isn't very powerful, so it'll be easy as pie to mass-produce.  At the end of January MS may have up to 10M units out versus Sony's 1M.  That's a HUGE advantage. 

[Tapewolf]

Hehehehe... now if this happens to Vista as well, I shall be a happy man.  Not that I have a problem with the PS3, I don't really care.  But it's been amusing to watch it fall apart.

[Cvstos]

Vista is making real progress.  I know, I've been beta-testing it for the last few months.  It's good enough now to serve as my main platform.  I still encounter frequent application and Windows Explorer crashes, but the OS actually does a good job recovering itself.  Usually within 10 seconds or so whatever failed has restarted and the core OS's stability isn't affected. 

I don't know if it'll make its October RTM date, but if it doesn't it shouldn't be delayed massively again.  Maybe a few months' push, but that's probably going to be about it.

[bill]

Microsoft seem to be very good at succeeding when there is no possible reason for them to do anything but fail. I think they may have a contract with Satan.

[Tapewolf]

Microsoft seem to be very good at succeeding when there is no possible reason for them to do anything but fail. I think they may have a contract with Satan.

Microsoft Bob.  Windows ME.  Doublespace.  MSDOS 4.  Cairo.  WinFS.  A.C.E.  Windows NT on MIPS, Alpha and PowerPC.  TabletPC.

[Cvstos]

Actually the Tablet PC is a very neat, useful idea, but they haven't gotten the execution quite right yet.  If they ever get it right (and if I have money) I'd get one.

[bill]

Microsoft seem to be very good at succeeding when there is no possible reason for them to do anything but fail. I think they may have a contract with Satan.

Microsoft Bob.  Windows ME.  Doublespace.  MSDOS 4.  Cairo.  WinFS.  A.C.E.  Windows NT on MIPS, Alpha and PowerPC.  TabletPC.

And despite these, their marketshare in consumer PCs is...

[Castle Pokemetroid]

I trust nintendo more than sony. Never bought any of their stuff yet . . .

[RJ]

...so much for my country getting any either. Though that's to be expected seeing as Australia hardly raises so much as a beep on the gaming world's radar. 

[Paladin Sheppard]

...so much for my country getting any either. Though that's to be expected seeing as Australia hardly raises so much as a beep on the gaming world's radar. 

Despite making a fair chunk of the newest games over the last few years...

[Manawolf]

Hopefully the price for a PS3 will have gone down by the time it becomes available, but they better have the bugs worked out as well.  As for 360, the ones they're shipping now aren't even finished.  Supposedly they're still working to make it backwards compatable with more games, and hopefully work out that overheating problem they've been having.

As for Wii, as long as they make the emulations cheap and easy to get, I'll be happy.  I want my Secret of Mana back dammit!

[King Of Hearts]

Im still in my "wait and see" mode. Theres still not enough games for me to pass judgement.

I dont want to buy another dreamcast [metaphorically speaking] 2008 will be the earliest that i buy a next gen console.

[Cvstos]

Hopefully the price for a PS3 will have gone down by the time it becomes available, but they better have the bugs worked out as well.  As for 360, the ones they're shipping now aren't even finished.  Supposedly they're still working to make it backwards compatable with more games, and hopefully work out that overheating problem they've been having.

As for Wii, as long as they make the emulations cheap and easy to get, I'll be happy.  I want my Secret of Mana back dammit!

It was always known it wouldn't be 100% backwards compatible.  The emulation for the old machine is DIFFICULT.  You're going to a completely different different CPU class (Intel x86 to IBM PowerPC), and going from an nVIDIA GPU to an ATI GPU.  And it's not like you're talking about emulating an NES.  It's way more complicated than that - the old Xbox had not-insignificant power.

Physical defects have been on par for the industry average thus far.  (Since I work at a video game store, I can kinda judge this on the number of returns we see, which has been relatively low.) 

[Saist]

Hopefully the price for a PS3 will have gone down by the time it becomes available, but they better have the bugs worked out as well.  As for 360, the ones they're shipping now aren't even finished.  Supposedly they're still working to make it backwards compatable with more games, and hopefully work out that overheating problem they've been having.

As for Wii, as long as they make the emulations cheap and easy to get, I'll be happy.  I want my Secret of Mana back dammit!

It was always known it wouldn't be 100% backwards compatible.  The emulation for the old machine is DIFFICULT.  You're going to a completely different different CPU class (Intel x86 to IBM PowerPC), and going from an nVIDIA GPU to an ATI GPU.  And it's not like you're talking about emulating an NES.  It's way more complicated than that - the old Xbox had not-insignificant power.

Physical defects have been on par for the industry average thus far.  (Since I work at a video game store, I can kinda judge this on the number of returns we see, which has been relatively low.) 

It's also noticable in the games that are "supported" that draw distance, load times, texture detail, and other items might be significantly different than on the original Xbox.

The heating problem was/is easily solved with a die shrink, although there is the possibility that Microsoft may use a similar liquid cooling system to the Apple PowerMac G5 that hasn't been completely discarded.

As far as the Wii goes, there are several key differences, and I'm going to contrast it with Sony and Microsoft.

With Microsoft they went with a completely new architecture, PPC from x86, and a completely new Graphics design. Because of their architecture choices their only real option for running games from the Original Console is a combination of Brute force (instruction call for instruction call translation) and High-Level Emulation (calls mapped to their native targets) The downside is that this method is slow and requires a lot of power as there are not a lot of native targets used.

With Sony, they as well jumped to a new architecture, a scalable PPC design from 128 bit MIPS, as well as a dedicated GPU from the soft-GPU design of the Playstation2. While it is theoretically possible to emulate the Playstation2 with Brute Force or High-Level Emulation, Sony went with a different method and is doing the same thing they did with the Original Playstation on Playstation2. There is a hardware chip inside the console that actually handles the emulation process. Rather, it's not emulation at all, the Playstation3 does contain Playstation2 hardware, or at least it did during E3 and at Leipzig. That means that the Playstation3 will be able to offer full compatibility... at an increased cost.

Nintendo, therefor, has the advantage. They had already moved to PowerPC with the Gamecube, coming off of MIPS from the N64. In paraphrazement of Nintendo, the Wii was built on top of the Gamecube. The result is that the system is binary compatible with Gamecube games, or at least very close. There are many (I'm one of them) that presumes that the Gamecube games are native to the Wii system.

It's also not like the Wii is short on power either, a Sega representative during E3 commented that the system could easily run Dreamcast games without an issue. Whether or not it will... well, couldn't answer.

As far as pricing goes, we'll find out more on the 14th of this month.

[Vidar]

Nintendo also has a very different strategy from Microsoft and Sony. MS and Sony are trying to wow their prospective customers with more graphical whizbang and more processing power.
Nintendo is (once again) revolutionising the way people interact with games.
Nintendo's lower price-point, combined with the virtual console, and the lure of Zelda, Metroid and Mario at launch make it a perfect "second console" for people who already have / will buy an xbox 360 / PS3.

The Wii's lack of uber-graphics will make ports difficult or impossible, but that doesn't need to be much of a hindrance. Nintendo isn't really trying to compete with Sony and MS in this round. Instead, Nintendo is bringing something actually new.

I will buy a Wii, because I like Zelda, and Metroid, and Mario, an d I'm hoping there will be a good star wars game in the Wii. Imagine light-saber action with the wii-mote (light-saber sounds coming from the wii-mote itself, and the light-saber on screen doing what you do with the wii-mote, etc), and force-powers with the nunchuck-attachment. (gesture it towards you for force-pull, towards the screen for force-push, etc.)

[Manawolf]

Not to mention appealing to the tons of Nintendo fans by having a legal emulator for their old games, and also those who got tired of trying to ply their action games with a computer keyboard.  It appeals to gamers both new and old.

[Jack McSlay]

i'd say sony is digging the playstation's grave itself. if there were some problems with defective PS2 consoles, and a big load of problems with defective PSPs, the odds is that PS3 may have even bigger problems are big. but this time, if they are having a hard time trying to fullfill the need for the first units, replacing them will be a big issue.

I think this time it's Nintendo vs. Microsoft. sorry sony, but if this were the 16-bit war, PS3 would be the turbografx

[Aridas]

Oh, and let's not forget how every PSP commercial ever (at least, I THINK I'm aware of them all) sucked the most amount of ass anything's ever sucked, and that some of them were even racist, covered up poorly. I think they WANT to drop out.

[Kenji]

X-BOX, PS2, Gamecube: Gamecube was my favorite. They had a lot more games my style, and more unique ones as opposed to mainly just sports and shooters. Although PS2 wasn't without it's charm. Gotta love RE Outbreak 1 and 2 and Monster Hunter. But Nintendo really just has most of my love because they like multiplayer. A lot. As for X-BOX... I really don't care for their games.

DS, PSP: DS has a fun way of doing things, Zelda, Mario, Metroid, and lots of good games. PSP has it beat in features, but for crying out loud, I buy a gaming system to play games. And from what I've heard, most people play NES and SNES roms on the PSP. It really doesn't have a good selection of games at all. And the UMDs? ....PUHLEASE! Why buy a second version of a movie you already have, JUST to be able to play it on one little tiny screen.

X-BOX 360, PS3, Wii: Still don't care for the X-BOX selections, so it's out. I wanted to get a PS3 once upon a time ago, but after hearing about having to download games and the price.... there's a slim chance of that. Wii... ah, the Wii. 21 years of gaming love from the year of my birth till now. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash Bros, and oh so many more awesome games coming out for launch or soon after.... under $250, which is half the price of the other two... Yeah, still sticking with Nintendo. So it doesn't have as much graphical power, oh well. Graphics aren't everything and I'd rather have awesome gameply over that any day. Magazines were all saying how out of the PS2, X-Box, and Gamecube, PS2 games usually had the worse graphics of the three for multiplatform games... I never saw much of a difference, if any. Either graphics just mean that little to me, or people put more ino graphical difference that what is really there.

[Cvstos]

i'd say sony is digging the playstation's grave itself. if there were some problems with defective PS2 consoles, and a big load of problems with defective PSPs, the odds is that PS3 may have even bigger problems are big. but this time, if they are having a hard time trying to fullfill the need for the first units, replacing them will be a big issue.

I think this time it's Nintendo vs. Microsoft. sorry sony, but if this were the 16-bit war, PS3 would be the turbografx

I don't even know if it'll be that.  A large number of people I talk to in the store say they're going to get an Xbox 360 AND a Wii, since that's roughly the same price as a PS3!  Microsoft's head people are thinking the same way, with some of the top Xbox guys suggesting that as a way to go.  Sony could well find themselves in third place, and neither MS nor Nintendo need to dominate in order to be successful this time around.  The market is big enough for three consoles to survive, but Sony will need to sell PS2-like numbers for the PS3 to recover the costs of designing and making the system.

[Saist]

Nintendo also has a very different strategy from Microsoft and Sony. MS and Sony are trying to wow their prospective customers with more graphical whizbang and more processing power.
Nintendo is (once again) revolutionising the way people interact with games.
Nintendo's lower price-point, combined with the virtual console, and the lure of Zelda, Metroid and Mario at launch make it a perfect "second console" for people who already have / will buy an xbox 360 / PS3.

The Wii's lack of uber-graphics will make ports difficult or impossible, but that doesn't need to be much of a hindrance. Nintendo isn't really trying to compete with Sony and MS in this round. Instead, Nintendo is bringing something actually new.

Couple of things here.

First, a comment on second console.

Lets say that Kroger is selling Apples, Oranges, and Pears. Pears are at half the cost of an Apple, and 1/3 the cost of an Orange.

You have 10 customers that come in that each get an Apple. 8 of these customers also get a Pear with the Apple.

You have 5 customers come in that get an Orange, but 4 of them also get Pears with the Oranges.

Which fruit sold more?

8+4 = 12 : The Pear sold more.

Now go back, replace the Apple with the Xbox 360, the Orange with the Playstation3, and the Pear with the Wii System and you'll have a pretty good idea of what sales experts are expecting to have happen with the Wii. It isn't the second console, far from it. Rather, this go around, it's becoming clear that the Xbox 360 and the Playstation3 are the "Second Consoles"


As far as the graphics go, from a development standpoint, it's actually not that hard to port games considering one item, resolution.

Thing about City of Heroe's for a Second. If you want to run this game in say, 1920 × 1080 (1080p), 1680*1050, 1440*900, or 1280*720 (720p) graphics modes, you'll need a pretty hefty graphics card. But, if you don't mind running in say, 1024*768, 720*480 (480p), or lower resolutions, you can get away with a graphics card from several years ago, like the Radeon 8500, a Geforce3, or a Geforce4. You can also keep about the same level of detail the lower the resolution goes.

The same applies to the Wii versus Xbox 360 versus Playstation3. Nintendo's Target Resolution is only 480p, while the Xbox 360 targets 720p with AA, and the Playstation3 targets 1080p. Developers who are willing to drop the resolution aren't having any problems fitting titles onto the Wii. In the case of the Xbox360, most games are built with a 480p mode simply because there, whether or not anybody likes it, a strikingly small number of TV's in use that are capable of anything above 480progressive.

But, It's fine by me if a developer says they can't put a title onto the Wii platform. It allows me to laugh at them and ask who's paying them to say that 

[Jack McSlay]

I don't even know if it'll be that.  A large number of people I talk to in the store say they're going to get an Xbox 360 AND a Wii, since that's roughly the same price as a PS3!  Microsoft's head people are thinking the same way, with some of the top Xbox guys suggesting that as a way to go.  Sony could well find themselves in third place, and neither MS nor Nintendo need to dominate in order to be successful this time around.  The market is big enough for three consoles to survive, but Sony will need to sell PS2-like numbers for the PS3 to recover the costs of designing and making the system.

I still think Turbografx is a good example. While Nintendo and Sega were strong with their systems, NEC was trying to keep Turbografx alive and managed to keep a good fanbase for a while. I think PS3 will follow the same route but will die faster for the exact reasons you've mentioned.

not only the system is expensive, but also developing games and the games themselves, therefore developers will need a very good reason to choose PS3. PS2 is not considered easy to develop either (great processor, but poor GPU and  little RAM).
but they managed to make up for it by having a headstart of over 1 1/2 years over XB and GCN. But now, being the late one in the race, and also having several problems on its production they're going to have a tough time trying to catch up with the already-stablished X360 and the cheap, fast-production, Wii, that is, if the task is even possible for a console that has a high place in the rank os most expensive consoles yet doesn't offer as much.

I think it's higly likely that PS3 will be the console of the late half-assed ports, because I doubt developers will optimize the games for PS3 and then have to dumb its graphics down to run it on Wii or X360. sony managed to cripple the graphics of GCN/XB games with PS2 because developers wanted the game to run on multiple consoles and now they've put themselves on the othed end

[Cvstos]

Jack: Yeah, and think about this.  The street cost of a dual-layer blank, burnable Blu-Ray disc is a whopping $40.  $40 for the medium alone.  I could see PS3 games costing $70-$80 because of that.

saist: It's actually a lot more complicated than that.  There's branding, marketing, perceived quality issues, etc. to factor in.  The reality is way more complicated than a simple "it's cheaper so it'll sell more" argument.  The Cube was cheaper than the PS2 and Xbox but it got beat in the US market.

That having been said, I do think that there is a chance that the Wii could wind up in the top spot.  Not a big one, again in my opinion, but a chance nonetheless.  I do think there is a very good chance it'll do very well overall.  In fact I'm quite confident that it has a bright future.

As for resolution, the Xbox 360 is more than capable of running fantastic-looking games in 720p.  We've already seen that and there's only a couple games out that make use of more than one processor core.  In fact I'd say that the 360 is going to have better looking games than the Wii, and resolution does play into that.  Playing games on an HDTV looks phenominal.  Trust me on this, I've got a 30" Samsung 720p tube and Burnout Revenge 360 looks unbelievable on it. 

HDTVs are going to become more and more common during the lifespan of these systems.  I got my HDTV for a mere $500.  That sounds like a lot, but remember that a few years ago a similar set would have been $1500.  It won't be long before CRT HDTVs hit the $300-$400 mark, and we'll see a lot more people buying them.

[Amber Williams]

*reads the thread*