2013/02/22 [DMFA #1380] Two month time limit

[InsanityRequiem]

Ooo. Well at least two months is better than none at all for Abel! But he does have to get cracking for that name clearing. Or he could fleeeeeee from the inn.

And seriously. Wildy's "I'm sorry" face is absolutely hilarious. Ha.

[Demont]

I wonder did Dan's mom kidnap Merlitz?

[joshofspam]

No matter how this ends, it doesn't seem like the outcome would be pretty.

Though Wildy is making light of it, this sounds extremely bad. I think Abel had the right idea of not wanting to go with BOB to the nice.

Though I actual fight between Wildy and Abel does sound interesting.

[Jasae Bushae]

Somehow i suspect it will go very badly for Wildy if he can't be proven innovent and just runs back to cubi school ^^;

[DavidRokon]

Somehow i suspect it will go very badly for Wildy if he can't be proven innovent and just runs back to cubi school ^^;

Cubi school is an option at least, I doubt much could touch him in there with whatsherboobs watching over the place.

[Tapewolf]

Cubi school is an option at least, I doubt much could touch him in there with whatsherboobs watching over the place.

Yeah, but it means that the lost lake crew get killed with the possible exception of Dan.  'Course, that'll happen anyway with Abel gone.

I hope Wildy had a poison-pill provision whereby if she kills Abel and then Merlitz turns up alive, the BOB forfeit their own lives too.  Fair's fair, right?

What makes it really complicated is that Jyrras might try to prevent her from doing that if the worst comes to the worst.  At this point the BOB seem to be morally-challenged enough that having them assassinated might be the best option all round.

But yeah, probably the first thing to do is find out of Merlitz is really dead.

[Nino]

I hope Wildy had a poison-pill provision whereby if she kills Abel and then Merlitz turns up alive, the BOB forfeit their own lives too.  Fair's fair, right?

Their worldviews seem to be that creatures are guilty until proven innocent. So they would probably think, especially because they were so 'generous' with their time allotment, that even if Abel was killed but Merlitz did show up later, Abel's death would have still been on the Lost Lake crew for failing to try harder in proving his innocence.

I know there wasn't any such provision like that in their deal because I'm sure they thought they were already being too fair in agreeing to those terms - remember, they see their fault was in attacking a being, not jumping to conclusions about Abel. They wouldn't see it as 'fair's fair' having the death of a being in payment for the death of a creature, because countless beings have died to creatures for their whims; if anything, another creature's death to a being (or... well, assumed being) is actually tipping the scales, off-balance from a history of slaughter, a little bit more the right way.

I don't think they can see Abel as an individual, I think they see him as another manifestation of an enemy. So if he died for something he wouldn't do, they'd just think about all the beings that died, not even because of perceived wrongdoings, but at the malice of creatures - and without two months notice or the chance of NOT dying. They would see his death as a sacrifice to ensure justice and the safety of future beings everywhere - if he can't prove he's innocent, then they think it's better for everyone that he dies, because if he's innocent then that's one wrongful death, but if he's guilty he'll kill again and that's countless deaths of beings they could have prevented. It's a risk assessment curve, and while I don't agree with it because obviously we grow up in a more refined, humane culture ('MURICA!), I can totally understand the point of view behind this deal.

[Tapewolf]

I know there wasn't any such provision like that in their deal because I'm sure to them the deal they made was already generous enough - their fault was in attacking a being, not jumping to conclusions about Abel. They wouldn't see it as 'fair's fair' having the death of a being in payment for the death of a creature, because it's already unfair being beings in the first place - countless beings have died to creatures for their whims; if anything, another creature dead to a being (or... well, Wildy) is actually tipping the already-off-balance scales a little bit more the right way.

Yeah, the thing is (and this was really in reply to your earlier rev which you've now deleted) is that they don't have a stake in this themselves - whether Abel or Wildy live or die means nothing to them.  But putting their own lives on the line as per my suggestion is a good way to do a reality check, i.e. "Is this really what we should be doing...?".

Realistically, it's very possible that Jyrras would try to kill them himself.

[Nino]

I know there wasn't any such provision like that in their deal because I'm sure to them the deal they made was already generous enough - their fault was in attacking a being, not jumping to conclusions about Abel. They wouldn't see it as 'fair's fair' having the death of a being in payment for the death of a creature, because it's already unfair being beings in the first place - countless beings have died to creatures for their whims; if anything, another creature dead to a being (or... well, Wildy) is actually tipping the already-off-balance scales a little bit more the right way.

Yeah, the thing is (and this was really in reply to your earlier rev which you've now deleted) is that they don't have a stake in this themselves - whether Abel or Wildy live or die means nothing to them.  But putting their own lives on the line as per my suggestion is a good way to do a reality check, i.e. "Is this really what we should be doing...?".

Realistically, it's very possible that Jyrras would try to kill them himself.

Oh yeah sorry, I keep editing my post because I feel like I'm not doing a great job articulating my point. I know it's bad forum etiquette to do this so much though; I'll stop now.

And you make a really good point, I guess it's just they didn't have the incentive to do that since their deal was ostensibly accepted without that clause - I don't get the feeling Wildy felt like she had a lot of leverage. But you know, you could be right. She's pretty shrewd sometimes and we didn't see the rest of their conversation, which seemed to be going fairly well.

[Tylor]

Why would Wildy accept on that? She should have let Mab handle it. Or Lorenda (&mom). Or Jyrras (&mom). Or Alexsi (&boyfriend).

[Tapewolf]

Why would Wildy accept on that? She should have let Mab handle it. Or Lorenda (&mom). Or Jyrras (&mom).

Kria and Abel might not be on talking terms at the moment, we simply don't know.  However Moira is a really good idea.  Abel could probably do with some legal advice at the moment (though whether he can afford it is another question)

[KV1NN4]

Kria and Abel might not be on talking terms at the moment, we simply don't know.  However Moira is a really good idea.  Abel could probably do with some legal advice at the moment (though whether he can afford it is another question)

He will simply have to repay Moira by making baby booties, baby frock, repainting the nursery aaand cooking all the household's meals for the next year and a half.

~K. *: B

[Mrs_A_ZeTavia]

Why would Wildy accept on that? She should have let Mab handle it.

Since, she staked her reputation on Abel being innocent, she may not have had a choice in the matter.

Also, if Mab handled it I really don't want to know what type of Fae wackiness she'd come up with to fix it.

[joshofspam]

You know, if Mab is really thinking about leveling the playing field between the races, she has a bit more to fix then simply having Beings supplied with weapons that put them on a level playing field on the battle field.

In this world, at least it seems like things have balanced out between the races and now certain elements most likely keep a relative peace in the lands of Furrae. But what happens if you give the wrong groups of Beings a weapon that supposedly puts them at an advantage against any Creature? (Keep in mind that a weapon like that would most likely be Just as effective against a Being)

If BOB and Biggs are anything to go by, I don't think Mab's mystery plan will go over to pleasantly. Hints seem to hint that she wants Jyrras to build a weapon. If BOB had them, I don't think Abel would or any other innocent Creature would get a chance to prove their innocents.

[Eboreg]

@joshofspam: That's the thing, Beings are currently at a disadvantage and are driven mainly by paranoia. If they have an arms advantage, they could renegotiate the terms of the Being-Creature contract, which is the main cause of injustice in Furrae and the prevalence of adventuring. The mercenarial adventuring system would be replaced by a more centralized justice system and the general fear of Creatures would gradually dissipate until they're seen as equals. Put simply, if the BOB had access guns, they wouldn't shoot Abel in the face, they'd take him to court. Of course, if guns were just recently introduced, then they would probably shoot Abel in the face.

[Tapewolf]

@joshofspam: That's the thing, Beings are currently at a disadvantage and are driven mainly by paranoia. If they have an arms advantage, they could renegotiate the terms of the Being-Creature contract, which is the main cause of injustice in Furrae and the prevalence of adventuring.

I'm not convinced there is a disparity.  There's injustice, absolutely, but as Abel pointed out earlier, Beings appear to be just as broken in terms of punishing the innocent and letting the guilty go free as all the other races.

The mercenarial adventuring system would be replaced by a more centralized justice system and the general fear of Creatures would gradually dissipate until they're seen as equals. Put simply, if the BOB had access guns, they wouldn't shoot Abel in the face, they'd take him to court.

No, they'd just shoot him in the back.  Remember how they were going to decapitate Alexsi just in case she was a Creature.

As for equality, you've got anti-wing cults, you've got roaming bands of adventurers shooting anything they find that looks Creature-ish without warning (remember Abel after Cyndy's funeral).  You've got sneak attacks and any number of magical weapons and spells that have levelled the playing field already.
I've been pondering this for a while and I'm really not sure Beings need an advantage that they don't already have.  And as I believe I mentioned last time this came up, it's rather interesting that the first practical gun has been used against Beings to protect a Creature.  Not to teach the Creatures who's who.

[Tylor]

Kria may not know Abel, but he is a friend of Lorenda and Jyrras by know. And Kria does not need a lot of incentive to eat some adventurers.
Also, I think M.A.C.E. will get that chassis she asked about...

[Jasae Bushae]

oh i love this idea~ if you gave everyone a gun then there would be no crime because nobody would steal or commit murder because everyone would have a gun to defend themselves with ^^ Sounds brilliant~
and once everyone has guns there wont be any discrimination or fear of anyone or prejudice because of guns~

gosh, i wish our world would develop such a civilized notion XD


in all seriousness though, Mab specifically said it was one invention he WOULD make. Jyrras has a bucket load of guns, transformation bracelets, computers, artificial life and even giant mechas so whatever hes going to come up with would possibly be radically different from his previous inventions and somehow cause a big enough effect that someone with a perception of everything could confidently say it would change things for the better
.....still no idea what the plush it could be though...and i think any theories would belong in that crazy theory section ^^;

[Eboreg]

The mercenarial adventuring system would be replaced by a more centralized justice system and the general fear of Creatures would gradually dissipate until they're seen as equals. Put simply, if the BOB had access guns, they wouldn't shoot Abel in the face, they'd take him to court.

No, they'd just shoot him in the back.  Remember how they were going to decapitate Alexsi just in case she was a Creature.

Of course, if guns were just recently introduced, then they would probably shoot Abel in the face.

Tapewolf, please stop selectively quoting.

As for equality, you've got anti-wing cults, you've got roaming bands of adventurers shooting anything they find that looks Creature-ish without warning (remember Abel after Cyndy's funeral).  You've got sneak attacks and any number of magical weapons and spells that have levelled the playing field already.
I've been pondering this for a while and I'm really not sure Beings need an advantage that they don't already have.

Need I point you to the fact that Daniel nearly died when facing off against DP for the first time in the strip? Or that Merlitz was saved by being ripped apart by Aaryanna only by luck? Both of them were experienced adventurers and knew what they were doing. The thing is that with a gun, you can end a creature's life in an instant, no matter how aware they are. With the previous methods of battle, it would take a long drawn out battle that could easily get you killed. The problem with a sneak attack is that it doesn't leave any time for questioning and friend or foe identification. A gun can act as a powerful psychological weapon that would immediately stop any attacks and leave time to ask questions.

oh i love this idea~ if you gave everyone a gun then there would be no crime because nobody would steal or commit murder because everyone would have a gun to defend themselves with ^^ Sounds brilliant~
and once everyone has guns there wont be any discrimination or fear of anyone or prejudice because of guns~

gosh, i wish our world would develop such a civilized notion XD

That's exactly what the NRA, and consequently, a large portion of the US is saying. You know how there is that saying that an American car is burglarized every 10 seconds? Well, an American civilian-owned firearm is used to stop a crime every 4 seconds. Granted, nothing will ever stop crime completely but civilian ownership of guns is a huge step in the right direction.

[Jasae Bushae]

yeah, its really tragic how the states still has so much crime and violence despite this encouragement that everyone should have a gun, it would totally cut down significantly on the amount of crime we have
especially compared to china and india whose populations are much higher than those in the states yet maintain a lower crime rate (doubtless thanks to generous gun donations to everyone ^^ )

[Tapewolf]

Need I point you to the fact that Daniel nearly died when facing off against DP for the first time in the strip? Or that Merlitz was saved by being ripped apart by Aaryanna only by luck? Both of them were experienced adventurers and knew what they were doing.

I'm not sure they did know what they were doing.  Adventurers usually go around in groups, which Creatures don't seem to do (and in any case there are fewer of them).  You get safety in numbers, and also the ability to overwhelm a creature by mobbing it, much like how crows will drive away or kill a predator.  It's worth noting that in both your examples, the adventurer was acting alone, as he was when DP nearly killed him the last time.  The BOB did a group attack and supposedly that's also how the incubus at the farm was taken down too.  If it had been Dan plus three others it would probably have gone rather differently.

The thing is that with a gun, you can end a creature's life in an instant, no matter how aware they are. With the previous methods of battle, it would take a long drawn out battle that could easily get you killed. The problem with a sneak attack is that it doesn't leave any time for questioning and friend or foe identification. A gun can act as a powerful psychological weapon that would immediately stop any attacks and leave time to ask questions.

Yes, but they already have that capability, via magic.  Gen's crystal is able to instantly take down a Creature with a stun spell, and that's most likely a cheap off-the-shelf doodad.  I'm not seeing what a gun would add here, apart from the ability for rash decisions to be made even more easily and permanently.

That's exactly what the NRA, and consequently, a large portion of the US is saying. You know how there is that saying that an American car is burglarized every 10 seconds? Well, an American civilian-owned firearm is used to stop a crime every 4 seconds. Granted, nothing will ever stop crime completely but civilian ownership of guns is a huge step in the right direction.

I was thinking about this and it sounds horribly similar to the theory behind the tank and the machine gun - it'll stop war by making it too bloody.  It just made war even more horrific than it was before.
And with things like road rage where someone loses their temper at another road user, is giving them a lethal weapon that they can use in a moment of madness really a good idea?  Or someone like Dan or Aniz with poor emotional control?

[Eboreg]

I'm not sure they did know what they were doing.  Adventurers usually go around in groups, which Creatures don't seem to do (and in any case there are fewer of them).  You get safety in numbers, and also the ability to overwhelm a creature by mobbing it, much like how crows will drive away or kill a predator.  It's worth noting that in both your examples, the adventurer was acting alone, as he was when DP nearly killed him the last time.  The BOB did a group attack and supposedly that's also how the incubus at the farm was taken down too.  If it had been Dan plus three others it would probably have gone rather differently.

My point is that it's very hard to remain rational when one of your friends could be killed. Group attacks may be all well and good but you still run the risk of getting one of the crows killed.

Yes, but they already have that capability, via magic.  Gen's crystal is able to instantly take down a Creature with a stun spell, and that's most likely a cheap off-the-shelf doodad.  I'm not seeing what a gun would add here, apart from the ability for rash decisions to be made even more easily and permanently.

If you look closely, you'll see that Gen had to charge up that spell allowing her to be interrupted by an outside party. With a gun, all you need to do is aim and pull the trigger. Also, the fact that the spell was less-than-lethal probably contributed to the trigger-happiness of Skirmish. I will tell you that a cop is much more likely to taze someone than he is to shoot him.

I was thinking about this and it sounds horribly similar to the theory behind the tank and the machine gun - it'll stop war by making it too bloody.  It just made war even more horrific than it was before.
And with things like road rage where someone loses their temper at another road user, is giving them a lethal weapon that they can use in a moment of madness really a good idea?  Or someone like Dan or Aniz with poor emotional control?

I too, am not supportive of giving firearms to emotionally unstable people. However, I will note that the same thing was said for the nuclear bomb, and we all see how that turned out. The whole idea of gun rights is that even a wheel-chair bound man can defend himself when he's given a gun and that if everyone is liable to have a gun, than violent criminals will think twice about their course of action.

[Amber Williams]

I lurve ya guys, but I'm gonna have to step in and say it may be time to ease off this particular tangeant of discussion.  I realize that weapon discussions are bound to happen in a comic where well...weapons exist in it...but I also guess I am feeling a bit touchy due to some of the current events regarding weapons, especially guns,  going on in real life.  And if I'm feeling oogy on it, I imagine other peeps on the forum likely are too but aren't voicing it.

So I'm gonna have to go mod-monster on this and ask that the subject gets dropped for now.  Apologies for the inconvenience. 

[Jasae Bushae]

umm...taking that to heart and moving back to the original topic.....
Does anyone know how long Dan has been at cubi school so far? I know he was to be gone for a while (i thought it might have been three months but....) *goes archive trawling* ah, it was only one month.
So its possible that Dan will return for this particular plot is resolved, that makes things interesting. (yay Wildy talking em into an extra month~) which means we might be seeing an upcoming adventure where either they go hunting for Merlitz (when was the last time we saw him anyway?) *does some more archive trawling* right after aaryanna broke up with him and occasional pull aways to his wacky adventures during question segments XD
ooor them somehow finding enough to go on to track Merlitz's killer (which sounds even less likley than finding a body)


On another note, what do you think will happen to Wildy if she doesn't pull this off? She staked her reputation on this but if Abel isnt proven innocent and he gets away would she be booted from the guild? Charged as an accomplice? Could she face exile or is even her life on the line for sticking up for him?

and as another thing of topicyness since the cubi murders havn't been brought up in a while (and i stumbled on something while archive trawling) people suspected Hizel of the cubi murders because stealing clan marks was his modus operandi (and I even heard a few people talking about how it might be Destania might be behind it to get the cubi to war on dragons)
But...Pyroduck mentioned that Hizel told him he could be acnowledged as his son if he was to kill 1000 cubi and it makes me toss out the wild theory of...Could Pyroduck have a half brother? o.O I mean, who knows how many kids that guy had

[Dressari]

I'd probably say a day or two, maybe three at most Jasae. Time between comics doesn't move very fast. Right after Dan's leaving we had the movie night at Jyrras and then Abel's birthday which straight after that was the attack.

So I'd hazard at least one day.

[joshofspam]

On another note, what do you think will happen to Wildy if she doesn't pull this off? She staked her reputation on this but if Abel isnt proven innocent and he gets away would she be booted from the guild? Charged as an accomplice? Could she face exile or is even her life on the line for sticking up for him?

and as another thing of topicyness since the cubi murders havn't been brought up in a while (and i stumbled on something while archive trawling) people suspected Hizel of the cubi murders because stealing clan marks was his modus operandi (and I even heard a few people talking about how it might be Destania might be behind it to get the cubi to war on dragons)
But...Pyroduck mentioned that Hizel told him he could be acnowledged as his son if he was to kill 1000 cubi and it makes me toss out the wild theory of...Could Pyroduck have a half brother? o.O I mean, who knows how many kids that guy had

Well before we consider what would happen if Abel can't prove his innocents. We have to consider what would BOB consider "Clear his name" would actually mean. Do they want proof or a head?

Though onto that other focus, it might be possible that his other siblings might be alive as well and have similar requirements as Ducky has in order to be excepted as their fathers child.

[Jasae Bushae]

Well before we consider what would happen if Abel can't prove his innocents. We have to consider what would BOB consider "Clear his name" would actually mean. Do they want proof or a head?

hmm...well during the cubi murder they were pretty blatantly investigating a crime scene and acting pretty professional in that regard to try finding the killer (with one exception) and they apparently keep heavy files on this sort of thing to pour over in an effort to actually solve the crime.

Also...they have the testimony of a phoenix to back them up saying the cubi of the inn killed Merelitz and their already pretty convinced that Abel is the one behind it. (since he claimed to be the only cubi at the inn)
So...they may need to get proof since hes basically already guilty in their eyes and is only being given a chance to prove otherwise because of Wildy...

hmm...wait...whats to stop them from just bringing them along to visit pyroducks mama and asking her about it so that she can confirm that they dont know? O.o cubi-ness aside, the oracles testimony is they had against him...(unless they also expect him to catch the killer...)

......i will laugh if he turns out to be on another world at the moment ^^;

[Tuyu]

I'd probably say a day or two, maybe three at most Jasae. Time between comics doesn't move very fast. Right after Dan's leaving we had the movie night at Jyrras and then Abel's birthday which straight after that was the attack.

I'm thinking at least three days, but less than a week.

1255: The night of the day Dan left, Abel tells Lorenda and Jyrras his birthday is "next Friday." (movie night)
1284: After passing Dan and Mink in a corridor in 1242, Aaryanna has been up to her ears in research for what seems at least a couple of days.
1313: Abel's party begins.

I think we're still on Abel's birthday.  Someone did a more thorough estimate a few threads ago.

[ChaosMageX]

I'd probably say a day or two, maybe three at most Jasae. Time between comics doesn't move very fast. Right after Dan's leaving we had the movie night at Jyrras and then Abel's birthday which straight after that was the attack.

I'm thinking at least three days, but less than a week.

1255: The night of the day Dan left, Abel tells Lorenda and Jyrras his birthday is "next Friday." (movie night)
1284: After passing Dan and Mink in a corridor in 1242, Aaryanna has been up to her ears in research for what seems at least a couple of days.
1313: Abel's party begins.

I think we're still on Abel's birthday.  Someone did a more thorough estimate a few threads ago.

I did my own estimate here, and I'll repeat the brief part of it that's relevant to this discussion:

Remember that the Soulstealer party occurred on a Thursday, and the next day Dan made plans to attend SAIA, and then he left the day after, on Saturday.  Later, on the very same day Dan left, Abel mentioned that next Friday would be his 400th birthday.

This means that Dan has been at SAIA for at least 6 days now.  If another day has already passed between the end of the fight with the BOB and the current strip (although there isn't much if any evidence to support that as far as I can tell, but I might have missed something), then Dan has been at SAIA a full week by the time of this strip.

hmm...wait...whats to stop them from just bringing them along to visit pyroducks mama and asking her about it so that she can confirm that they dont know? O.o cubi-ness aside, the oracles testimony is they had against him...(unless they also expect him to catch the killer...)

......i will laugh if he turns out to be on another world at the moment ^^;

Unfortunately, Pyroduck's mother is dead.

EDIT:

But...Pyroduck mentioned that Hizel told him he could be acnowledged as his son if he was to kill 1000 cubi and it makes me toss out the wild theory of...Could Pyroduck have a half brother? o.O I mean, who knows how many kids that guy had

Actually, it was 500 Cubi, but then again with numbers that large I'm probably just splitting hairs.
But seriously, that is an interesting theory.  Another one of Pyroduck's 4 other siblings that were "destroyed" by the Cubi could have been spared from death, and their innate personality and/or an upbringing by a race other than Cubi could have given them a mindset that would be inclined to fulfill the very same request from daddy dearest, perhaps even with overzealous enthusiasm.

[Tapewolf]

Well before we consider what would happen if Abel can't prove his innocents. We have to consider what would BOB consider "Clear his name" would actually mean. Do they want proof or a head?

Merlitz alive or Aliyka's testimony could work.  Especially if Merlitz touches the dead stone and it re-syncs with him.

Abel's been hanging around with folks from the lost lake area for basically the entire time except for when he got lost in Gryphon form, so for the most part he'd have an alibi if Aliyka does say that she saw Merlitz killed by someone.

Also it's likely that Wildy will be investigating things herself.  She has a stake in Mertliz's life as well, plus I'm not sure she'd be too happy killing someone she wasn't sure was guilty.  And that's not counting how Jyrras would feel about it.  Wildy could easily end up joining Abel - even if not, it would tear the Lost Lake community apart.

As for the day, Wildy seems to be implying that it's still his birthday in the current strip.  Dan's time at the academy is likely to be a month unless he opts to stay longer.  But he'd probably want to check back on his sister.  If he does return, Abel might find it handy to have help from a pro.