Post-mortem Cubification?

[ChaosMageX]

An interesting question came to me today, and after searching through the DMFA forum, I couldn't find a clear answer, so I decided to start a new thread asking it.

I know Amber has said several times in the forums that the process of becoming undead tends to nerf a lot of powers and traits most races would normally have, specifically here:

That said, if a Cubi were to become Undead, they would lose about 90% of their shapeshifting ability if not all of it.  For all intents and purposes they would be losing the Cubi template and replacing it with an Undead one.

But what about the reverse, in which an undead becomes a Cubi through the cubification ritual mentioned here?

If a being or non-Cubi creature were to successfully procreate with a Cubi from a clan with a tri-wing leader, and then wind up getting infected through contact with an undead and die within the time limit to rise again as an undead themselves, would they even still be able to undergo the process of cubification?

Would they only receive 10% of an average Cubi's natural abilities as mentioned above, or more?

Or are there limitations on the cubification ritual that would prevent it from being used on undead, despite them have living children in the clan.
Or does it have a lower rate of success for undead than other non-Cubi races?

If this has already been answered somewhere else in the forums, could I get a link to the answer?  I'd like to know if I'm just beating the proverbial dead horse, or in this case undead horse.

[Amber Williams]

Undead cannot be made into Cubi.

[Plotting]

Undead cannot be made into Cubi.

Because, why? 

[Ignuus66]

Because, why? 

Because magic.

Also I'd think they have a completely magic based biological system, thus they lose all their Beingness...

Which reminds me, if in an unlikely event a dragon had a offspring with a cubi, and the offspring turned out to be cubi (say the cubi was from a very powerful clan) then what happens if the dragon wants to be converted into a cubi?

[Plotting]

Because, why? 

Because magic.

Works for me!

[justacritic]

Because, why? 

Because magic.

Also I'd think they have a completely magic based biological system, thus they lose all their Beingness...

Which reminds me, if in an unlikely event a dragon had a offspring with a cubi, and the offspring turned out to be cubi (say the cubi was from a very powerful clan) then what happens if the dragon wants to be converted into a cubi?

Typically the child would be a dragon because the dragon is the stronger of the two and the dragon genes beat out the cubi genes and the pair needs to have a cubi child to convert the non cubi spouse. I remember somewhere on the forums saying that and that's the reason cubi usually choose the weaker magical races to have children with unless Amber changes her mind about that somehow.

[Turnsky]

Undead cannot be made into Cubi.

Because, why? 

Narrative Causality. 

[Ignuus66]

Because, why? 

Because magic.

Also I'd think they have a completely magic based biological system, thus they lose all their Beingness...

Which reminds me, if in an unlikely event a dragon had a offspring with a cubi, and the offspring turned out to be cubi (say the cubi was from a very powerful clan) then what happens if the dragon wants to be converted into a cubi?

Typically the child would be a dragon because the dragon is the stronger of the two and the dragon genes beat out the cubi genes and the pair needs to have a cubi child to convert the non cubi spouse. I remember somewhere on the forums saying that and that's the reason cubi usually choose the weaker magical races to have children with unless Amber changes her mind about that somehow.

AS I said, if the cubi is the stronger of the 2 (near tri wing status, and very strong clan, and the dragon is a weaker one, the nit would be possible I think...

[justacritic]

Because, why? 

Because magic.

Also I'd think they have a completely magic based biological system, thus they lose all their Beingness...

Which reminds me, if in an unlikely event a dragon had a offspring with a cubi, and the offspring turned out to be cubi (say the cubi was from a very powerful clan) then what happens if the dragon wants to be converted into a cubi?

Typically the child would be a dragon because the dragon is the stronger of the two and the dragon genes beat out the cubi genes and the pair needs to have a cubi child to convert the non cubi spouse. I remember somewhere on the forums saying that and that's the reason cubi usually choose the weaker magical races to have children with unless Amber changes her mind about that somehow.

AS I said, if the cubi is the stronger of the 2 (near tri wing status, and very strong clan, and the dragon is a weaker one, the nit would be possible I think...

However it is mentioned in terms of power levels dragons and fae trump cubi even triwinged cubi are slightly unpowered compared to dragons. Though not know how Amber scales power levels means I have no idea if your situation has a possibility of occurring. So you may be wrong then again you may be right.

[Jigsaw Forte]

Undead cannot be made into Cubi.

Because, why? 

The real answer is probably one part "Author Says So", and one part... okay, really, your body is not IMPROVING any by becoming undead.

Trying to become a Cubi while undead is probably akin to adding breast implants or any other plastic surgery while undead -- Just because you theoretically COULD doesn't mean you're doing yourself any favors, or that the results will ever look good.

That, and because so much of Cubi lineage and legacy is intrinsically tied to the reproductive system, I suspect having a nonfunctioning one (Remember, all Undead become sterile) puts up sufficient roadblocks for the Cubi magic to work.

[Ignuus66]

That, and because so much of Cubi lineage and legacy is intrinsically tied to the reproductive system, I suspect having a nonfunctioning one (Remember, all Undead become sterile) puts up sufficient roadblocks for the Cubi magic to work.

I don't think that 'cubi magic is based on reproduction, I think reproduction is based on cubi magic...

[Turnsky]

I don't think that 'cubi magic is based on reproduction, I think reproduction is based on cubi magic...

[Tapewolf]

...

I think he means reproduction of 'Cubi depends on magic, not reproduction in general.

[joshofspam]

Undead cannot be made into Cubi.

Because, why? 

The real answer is probably one part "Author Says So", and one part... okay, really, your body is not IMPROVING any by becoming undead.

Trying to become a Cubi while undead is probably akin to adding breast implants or any other plastic surgery while undead -- Just because you theoretically COULD doesn't mean you're doing yourself any favors, or that the results will ever look good.

That, and because so much of Cubi lineage and legacy is intrinsically tied to the reproductive system, I suspect having a nonfunctioning one (Remember, all Undead become sterile) puts up sufficient roadblocks for the Cubi magic to work.

Theirs also a part of compatibility to be considered.

Their both wide and large, both magical beings, so most of the magic that makes up the two races would be most likely be incompatible with one another.

[Amber Williams]

Theirs also a part of compatibility to be considered.

Their both wide and large, both magical beings, so most of the magic that makes up the two races would be most likely be incompatible with one another.

It is a bit of this.  The thing with Undead is that they are for many intents and purposes...still very dead.  Yes they walk around and seem to have the memories of those who were once alive, but they are in many ways simply animated flesh held together with magic.  You cannot convert a straight up corpse into being a Cubi, and thus the same principle applies to Undead even if they do move about and give off the semblence of life.  And the magic that is used to hold them together is in some ways as unnatural as the Undead themselves.  I guess the simplest way to describe it is when one is dead, it's 404 signal not found when it comes to a clan leader being able to track the bloodline.  And that doesn't change simply because the dead is moving about and acting like they are alive.

Which really is probably for the best.  Cause Kish'Ta is already freaky as heck at times, the last thing she needs is an incentive to go grave-digging.

Because, why? 

Be more cautious in your future posts.  My initial feelings to your post was that you were being insulting thus I almost destroyed the thread on principle.

[Ignuus66]

...

I think he means reproduction of 'Cubi depends on magic, not reproduction in general.

Actually what I meant is that when jigsaw said " so much of Cubi lineage and legacy is intrinsically tied to the reproductive system, I suspect having a nonfunctioning one (Remember, all Undead become sterile) puts up sufficient roadblocks for the Cubi magic to work." I said that their magic isn't based on reproduction, their reproduction is (somewhat) based on magic.

Of course "cubi" might be a simple genetic sequence that other races don't have, and take any race's DNA, insert that sequence, and boom it's a cubi...
Of course, as I have no idea how genetics works, this might be unrealistic technobabble.

[Plotting]

Because, why?  

Be more cautious in your future posts.  My initial feelings to your post was that you were being insulting thus I almost destroyed the thread on principle.

Sorry. I meant it as a tongue in cheek comment, and did not mean to offend anyone.

[Nocturne of Night]

Of course "cubi" might be a simple genetic sequence that other races don't have, and take any race's DNA, insert that sequence, and boom it's a cubi...
Of course, as I have no idea how genetics works, this might be unrealistic technobabble.

You're pretty darn close.

*Activating SCIENCEMODE* *ThmmmmmMMMMM....*

Genes don't insert themselves generally (viruses don't count) but here's a possible explanation. It could be an autosomal dominant gene (call it cubi) active by default and inactivated by various genes expressed by other creatures and beings in varying levels. For example, being gene may have only one variant that is relatively easily overridden while dragon or demon gene may be more active/better at blocking cubi or have hundreds of variants all expressing at once (this is more likely where halflings are possible). If the cubi gene wins out, badda-boom you have a Cubi. Otherwise, you have a not-Cubi.

As a side note, this allows the possibility that mutations in angel are causing the reproduction/viability issues, if we make creature heritage, umm, heritable like this.

*Shutdown SCIENCEMODE*

Something like that. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some tea to brew.

[Amber Williams]

Because, why?  

Be more cautious in your future posts.  My initial feelings to your post was that you were being insulting thus I almost destroyed the thread on principle.

Sorry. I meant it as a tongue in cheek comment, and did not mean to offend anyone.

I figured that was the case, hence why I did not destroy-inate the thread.  It was more the initial knee-jerk reaction, which was why I just opted to chill for a bit.

One of the downsides to being a creator of comic things is that overtime there does come some folks who will demand an explanation for something.  And sometimes even when you give one, the response is "well what about (insert attempt to make a loophole out of previously stated explanation)"    In some cases the person is just genuinely curious and trying to brainstorm, but sometimes it is a result of the person having a particular concept that they REALLY want to work and are hoping if they can just nudge me enough, there will be a loophole for them to let their concept work.  This can get particularly frustrating when the subject is something that has some heavy underlying tones to something that will happen in the comic itself so I don't want to spoiler-bomb the place.

[Turnsky]

Because, why?  

Be more cautious in your future posts.  My initial feelings to your post was that you were being insulting thus I almost destroyed the thread on principle.

Sorry. I meant it as a tongue in cheek comment, and did not mean to offend anyone.

I figured that was the case, hence why I did not destroy-inate the thread.  It was more the initial knee-jerk reaction, which was why I just opted to chill for a bit.

One of the downsides to being a creator of comic things is that overtime there does come some folks who will demand an explanation for something.  And sometimes even when you give one, the response is "well what about (insert attempt to make a loophole out of previously stated explanation)"    In some cases the person is just genuinely curious and trying to brainstorm, but sometimes it is a result of the person having a particular concept that they REALLY want to work and are hoping if they can just nudge me enough, there will be a loophole for them to let their concept work.  This can get particularly frustrating when the subject is something that has some heavy underlying tones to something that will happen in the comic itself so I don't want to spoiler-bomb the place.

clearly answers to questions like these would be a segment all its own: "Ask Dr Mab" complete with little Taco-globe on your desk. 

[Ignuus66]

You're pretty darn close.

*Activating SCIENCEMODE* *ThmmmmmMMMMM....*

Genes don't insert themselves generally (viruses don't count) but here's a possible explanation. It could be an autosomal dominant gene (call it cubi) active by default and inactivated by various genes expressed by other creatures and beings in varying levels. For example, being gene may have only one variant that is relatively easily overridden while dragon or demon gene may be more active/better at blocking cubi or have hundreds of variants all expressing at once (this is more likely where halflings are possible). If the cubi gene wins out, badda-boom you have a Cubi. Otherwise, you have a not-Cubi.

As a side note, this allows the possibility that mutations in angel are causing the reproduction/viability issues, if we make creature heritage, umm, heritable like this.

*Shutdown SCIENCEMODE*

Something like that. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some tea to brew.

I was actualy thinking along the lines of it working somewhat like a virus, with a normal reproductive system, but a magical twist (if it wasn't something like a virus, I'd imagine cubi half breeds would be possible.)

[justacritic]

Because, why?  

Be more cautious in your future posts.  My initial feelings to your post was that you were being insulting thus I almost destroyed the thread on principle.

Sorry. I meant it as a tongue in cheek comment, and did not mean to offend anyone.

I figured that was the case, hence why I did not destroy-inate the thread.  It was more the initial knee-jerk reaction, which was why I just opted to chill for a bit.

One of the downsides to being a creator of comic things is that overtime there does come some folks who will demand an explanation for something.  And sometimes even when you give one, the response is "well what about (insert attempt to make a loophole out of previously stated explanation)"    In some cases the person is just genuinely curious and trying to brainstorm, but sometimes it is a result of the person having a particular concept that they REALLY want to work and are hoping if they can just nudge me enough, there will be a loophole for them to let their concept work.  This can get particularly frustrating when the subject is something that has some heavy underlying tones to something that will happen in the comic itself so I don't want to spoiler-bomb the place.

Ah one of the many hazards of world creation. How much info to give without spoiling everything. That's a reason why I have such a difficult time continuing stories, I nearly compulsively try to sketch out a world instead of making the world fit the story at times.

[Turnsky]

Ah one of the many hazards of world creation. How much info to give without spoiling everything. That's a reason why I have such a difficult time continuing stories, I nearly compulsively try to sketch out a world instead of making the world fit the story at times.

actually one other hazard of world creation is someone trying to find a loophole for their horrid mary-sue creation that has no place in existing in the first place.
I believe that's how Hollows came about in relation to the fae. to curb folks having half-fae kiddies godmoding all over the place.  

To this end a LOT of authors and worldbuilders like to cite "narrative causality" to their works, i've mentioned it before but i'll clarify its meaning incase it went over a few heads: "it's like that because i say so".

Still, folks like to try to find loopholes regardless, so the creator has to dedicate a little creative energy denoting why precisely something is the way it is.
Which could be better spent elsewhere, quite frankly.

[Nocturne of Night]

...

I was actualy thinking along the lines of it working somewhat like a virus, with a normal reproductive system, but a magical twist (if it wasn't something like a virus, I'd imagine cubi half breeds would be possible.)

Ya I can see that. We don't really know. I don't think Amber wants to know (let alone cares, a la handwaving is our friend). As for the half-breeds thing, that's why I said it's dominant