about childrens books and you

[Brunhidden]

i wish to conduct a little research

for this exercise imagine you got drunk and got knocked up or knocked someone up dependent on your equipment. whatever, you have a kid now who is somewhere between the ages of 3 and 7.

your kid is unique, intelligent, and awesome.

consider now that you are going to the library/bookstore and are appalled at the mindless tripe that usually passes for children's books.

now, what elements would you look for in a children s book that does not insult the intelligence of your 3 year old? what messages, illustration styles, topics, and real world situations would you and your child most like?

no, i don't want you to point at a specific classic childrens book and say 'like that', not helping. i want you to describe the ideal childrens book regardless of its existance

[Inumo]

Well, I suppose the first question is, just how literate is the child? Also, how deep a meaning can xe understand?

[VAE]

I will mostly say from what i have read ,as well as from own experience when i was a kid.
Towards the younger end of the spectrum 3 year etc, there are best books that explain about the world in basic ways, like explaining what industrial machinery does on a construction site showing coloury drawings of it.. (in fact that's something from a particular kid's book i really well remember) Though, might have been just me.
Such  things are pretty fascinating, and also with a bit of luck and approach should make the kid interested in how stuff works.

As the kids get older, some sort of popular science/technics books aren't bad idea... a particular pocket encyclopedia of nature, as well as a rather text-heavy , thick book about dinosaurs (with photographs of rubber models made to look like the real animals in some cases) were my favourite books as i was about 5-7 years old.
Am for example quite sure that some sort of  illustrated encyclopedia of military airplanes  would appeal to "every" 7 year old XD , though that's just from what i remember of my classmates and me from basic school.
Nothing too experty-sounding and incomprehensible, but don't go for dumbed-down stuff either if you suspect the kid can understand it - i come from the lucky age when typesetting pictures wasn't as cheap as now and so books didn't quite so overflow with them.
As said by a computing expert: A picture is worth 10k words, but only those to describe the picture. Hardly any 10k word set can be accurately described with pictures.

As for other sorts of books - "fun" ones - whatever the kid prefers, (as long as it isn't Teletubbies XD)
But once again. i'd say it all boils down to approach - as an example i myself learned to read alone well before entering school, mainly because my grandmother was before retirement a teacher, and knew how to make me do stuff.

[WhiteFox]

Empathy.

Patience.

Personal responsibility.

Ask questions, seek answers.

To be generous in prosperity and thankful in adversity.

Writing that will develop their language skills, and makes use of metaphor and connotation.

Assuming I'll be getting more than one book (which I most certainly would), as wide a variety of illustrations as possible, and a good number that are non-illustrated.

Finally, something I wouldn't mind sitting down and reading to them every evening.

[Brunhidden]

the reason i ask is because i myself am disgusted with the drivel that passes as childrens books out there, and wading through the libraries children section feels like standing in knee deep sewage while looking for something to read to my kids at bedtime

thus- i am actually seriously considering writing a childrens book or four once i get some feedback  and ideas

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Heh.

If that happened to me, my wife would have my privates for a necklace, and rightly so. *cough*

Moving more into the range of what you're asking - I've selected a number of specific books for my own son, and I've also added other books that I recall from my own childhood - things like a particular book that I had when I was a child, I brought over here for my own son.

The book in question (Heads and Tales) has a character in it called The Hypotenuse, because the square of the large square on his back are equal to the sum of the squares of the smaller squares... which is the sort of subtle intelligent joke that I appreciate, and that he appreciates. Other things tend to have that sort of thing going on - layers within layers, puns, and smart things that you can appreciate on the surface, but the more you understand, the more you appreciate. Other things include HitchHikers Guide to the Galaxy, Girl Genius, The Little World of Don Camillo; stories that include political intrigue, have a hero or heroine that triumphs through application of intelligence, rathe rthan simply hacking their way through the most enemies.

The Paper Bag Princess is another one, for the younger end. A young princess, who has a prince who is sweet on her, but her prince gets stolen by a dragon who burns her castle down and burns all her clothes, and all she can find to wear is a paper bag. After making her way through and beating the dragon, the price declines her because she's not got nice clothing, so she leaves him and finds someone better.


Personally, I found some of the simpler Terry Pratchett books good to read to my bairn. Other than that, I'd have to go look at his shelf...

[Brunhidden]

odd thing- for a very brief time i was one of those guys at the country club that walked around with a giant platter full of fizzy pink drinks and making polite conversation to rich bastards in a fund raising silent auction. the theme of the silent auction and the ensuing fancy dinner/oration was the paper bag princess. thus all proceeds of the auction went to something paper bag themed or dirty young girl themed. it involved a whole lot of arm strain, lifting heavy furniture to other rooms, lying to rich people, and stealing uneaten four star food. best. job. ever.

now what i want to get into is specifically what kind of themes or morals a modern intelligent parent would want to impress upon their intelligent child. its very hard to write a childrens book with no theme or moral, unless its a book about colors and counting, but at the same time its really easy to have a moral/theme that's insulting to the intelligence of your five year old.

some of the ideas i have been working on are as follows

-its alright to have interests not typical for your gender

-if you think there are monsters under your bed or in your closet, show them who is boss and never be afraid of them again

-nobody likes bullies, pity them because they have no friends

-don't make fun of someone who has an accident in public, it could easily have been you and you are being a jerk when you do so

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

-if you think there are monsters under your bed or in your closet, show them who is boss and never be afraid of them again

Susan, from PTerry. She bent a fireplace poker over the head of one of the monsters under the bed when she was younger. I believe the monsters behave around her, because she's much more frightening than they are...

[GabrielsThoughts]

Crabby Gabby...looks a lot like Ambaargh's Fluffy. I haven't actually read it but I think a round furry creature is a good direction to go.

On a related note. I'm actually working with someone, and we're making a comic that will teach coping skills, social engineering, philosophy, and self defense against weapons of social influence. Plus, as soon as I graduate I'll have more time to work on my own series and finish it up propperly.   

[Brunhidden]

updates

ran into one of my wifes old highschool friends at office supply store while buying printer ink and two reams of paper. apperantly she wrote a childrens book herself not too long ago, will ask her more about it later

talked to a used childrens store (no, not like that) owner who commented on the child on my head while i was flipping through the book section. she too expressed disgust at what a lot of people printed (but was not aware of 'alfies home' untill i told her, whereuppon she became physically ill) and actually encouraged that i write a contemporary childrens book tackling the concept of Death. it may make me a little uncomfortable, but i see the need and would see it as a challenge.

mentioned same to librarian (who also commented on small child as a hat, and made signs to ward off evil when i mentioned 'alfies home') who claimed to have a strong urge to scrub herself after shelving most of the childrens books. she expressed desire for A- topic of substance B- avoid easily dated material C- dont patronise the audience  and most of all D- its not a childrens book it is childrens literature, and as such should be treated as a serious art form

thus i open the table for more discussion- death in a childrens book? treat it as a serious art form? where do i go from here?

[Gabi]

I didn't know about "Alfie's home" but I've seen the comments on the web and it sounds disgusting.

You might want to look into José Mauro de Vasconcelos's work, especially "O Palácio Japonês" (1969) and "O Veleiro de Cristal" (1973), if you can find English translations. They may be a good source of inspiration. (I've read Spanish translations of those books and I liked them, so I can tell the essence wasn't lost in translation).