01/10/10 [DMFA #1075] - Atreyuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!

[Gornemant]

Definitely get the translation that archteryx mentions below, if he would be so kind as to provide some more info.  Any decent translation should be printed in two inks, red and green.

(FYI:  "candide" is my userid.  "Candide" is a novel by Voltaire, its eponymous main character, and the name of a musical based on that novel.  )

Don't worry, the German version will do just fine, as long as it's not like any of Goethe's works

(Don't remind me of that, I still have nightmares from when I had to read it in school, I even know what the term actually means. )

[candide]

Don't worry, the German version will do just fine, as long as it's not like any of Goethe's works

Not in the slightest!  Think of all of the literature that you had to read for your German classes.

Now, remember that all of it is at least 150 years old.

From the late 19th century until 1945, the germanic principalities and kingdoms, followed by the country of Germany, were either facing internal turmoil or at war.  So, not much new art during that time period, though there were a few.  (And, as any college German major could tell you, from 1933-1945 Germany was a cultural desert, rehashing bad versions of a few of its past artistic treasures.)  Between 1945 and the 1960s, West Germany was too busy recovering from total ruin, nevermind facing up to and coming to terms with what they did during the war.  So, from 1945 until after 1960 or so, German novels, theater and movies were rather dreary and depressing, for the most part.

So, again:  the plays, poems, and literature worth studying in your German classes are all at least 150 years old, full of anachronistic words, meanings, and writing style.  (That's what makes them "classics" after all.)  The few exceptions from the 20th century are from the early part of it, and are rather ... difficult.


The spoken German language changed drastically since then.  Michael Ende used modern German and a non-obtuse, uncomplicated writing style when he wrote Die unendliche Geschicte.  You won't find any 6 line long sentences ending in a 10-verb pile-up here.

[Gornemant]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

(And my first German classes were actually more 60ies style books, God it was awful, at least there was crap like Werner on TV  )

[candide]

(Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

*snerk* BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh, oh that's great.

Ok, I have a funny story for you.

When I was in college, during the summers I'd get physics internships (I was a double major, physics+Germanistik).  During junior year (that's the 3rd year of an American 4-year Baccalaureate degree, for our friends from other parts of globe), I spend a semester studying at the University of Mainz in Fachbereich Germanistik (the department in German universities that cover German language and literature but also linguistics, German medieval studies, and German cultural traditions).

Now, the city of Mainz is in the (then West-) German state of Rheinland Pfalz, whose local dialect is known as Pfälzisch.

I'm explaining all of this so that the rest of you can be in on the funny story I'm about to tell Gornemant.


Between junior and senior (final) year, I had a physics internship at Swarthmore, outside of Philadelphia.  I was renting a room from a woman who had 2 kids, a son in high-school who, it turns out, was interested in physics, and a daughter in college.  Her daughter was spending the summer as a counsellor at a summer camp for city kids.  Well, one week mid-summer, her daughter came home, with 3 other counsellors in tow.  All 3 of these young ladies were German.

Since I'd been back in the U.S. only a couple of months, I was still perfectly fluent, and started talking with them.  I told them about my double-major, where I'd studied the semester before, and they told me where they were from, and were a bit surprised that an American had a clue where those towns were.

Towards the end of our conversation, which was completely in Hochdeutsch (Standard German), one of the young ladies turned to the other and said (in German; this is translated):  "Weird.  He has no American accent whatsoever."  "Yeah," replied another, "His accent sounds more Pfälzish that anything else."

Not realizing that I'd picked up the Mainz accent, I replied, without realizing it, "Wirklisch?  Daß wußt' isch niet."¹

They cracked up.  I realized what just happened, and blushed.




¹(What I said was, "Really?  I didn't know that," ... in Pfälzisch dialect.    Ooops!)

[Gornemant]

Hahaha, yeah, you tend to pick up the accent when you're staying long enough.
When I first arrived here, they found it weird that I didn't have any french accent when speaking in German, now a few girls that knew this back then find it cute when I start blabbering a little Schwäbisch after a year.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

I do believe that there's a rule about that, Gorn...

[Gornemant]

Sowwies, I forgot it while I was gone  
(You know I mean no harm  )

[Eon]

This strip amused me sufficiently to say so on this forum. I love that movie!

[Anker Steadfast]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

I do believe that there's a rule about that, Gorn...

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

I'd add a sarcastic remark about all of this in my native language, but I'm scared of the rule myself, so I'd better not do it !

[Shachza]

And while we're talking about translation:  the name of the book, Die unendliche Geschichte, is normally translated as The Neverending Story.  Now, "unendlich" can indeed mean "neverending."  But "unendlich" is also synonymous for "endlos" == endless.  So you could also translate the title as, "The Endless Story."  Also, the word "endlich," means, "finally", so "unendlich" implies un-finally, not-finally, lacking finality.  So the German title also has connotations of, "The Story Without End,"  "The Story that Never Stops."  The story that forever continues.

So, the translation "The Neverending Story," while correct, contains connotations not present in the original German title.  ("Neverending" is somewhat synonymous with "eternal," and "unendlich" definitely does not mean eternal.)

And that's why I take really old and multi-translated books with a huge grain of salt.

"The Story Without End"
"The Neverending Story"
"The Story that Never Stops"
"The Evertraveling Story"

It's a big game of telephone, and it's particularly hard to translate the nuances of language along with the entire message.

[candide]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

I do believe that there's a rule about that, Gorn...

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

Actually, that was me translating all of the non-English.   

I can just barely make out what Goremant said in Schwäbisch (a southwestern dialect of German):  "No worries.  I currently live in Schwaben, but I can still speak a bit of Standard German here and there."
I think.

And that's why I take really old and multi-translated books with a huge grain of salt.

"The Story Without End"
"The Neverending Story"
"The Story that Never Stops"
"The Evertraveling Story"

It's a big game of telephone, and it's particularly hard to translate the nuances of language along with the entire message.

Well, actually, Michael Ende wrote Die unendliche Geschichte back in 1979.
(Look, I know I'm old, but I'm not that old.)

It was also translated directly into English.  And directly into every other language in Europe.  It's quite a popular story, from what I've been told.

But I only know the German version.  Well, I also know that the movie exists (and I've heard that it's a modified version of the first part of the book.  Once Bastian enters the book, the Nothing is gone).

I provided the explanation of what "unendlich" means because ... well, "neverending" is a possible translation.  But when I hear, "unendlich", I think something other than, "neverending." 

Hmmm...

One of my German-English dictionaries translates, "unendlich," as "infinite, endless, boundless; unlimited".  But "endless" is typically translated from English to the German word, "endlos".

[ArchTeryx]

Huh.  From what I recall of, Spirited Away, Haku was the kami of a creek/river, not of air.  But otherwise, yes - Haku does very much resemble Fuchur/Falkor/Falcor, and the latter is something of an air elemental.

BTW archteryx: 

Is the text in your English translation printed in red and green ink to indicate where the story's taking place?  I'm also curious how the translator handled the chapters, "from A to Z".  Translating is a tricky business as-is, nevermind trying to make the first letter of the first word of each chapter in the translation match the one in the original.

Could you also provide more info about that edition of your English translation, like publisher, year, Library of Congress and/or ISBN number, etc.?

Indeed, Haku's full name was Nigihayami Kohaku Nushi; he was the spirit of the Kohaku River, but he really wasn't a simple elemental spirit, having both air and water abilities. (The elder River God was a straight-up water elemental -- a very powerful one).

What he was was shockingly similar to Falkor as the book described him.  The first time I saw his transformation into a dragon, the first words out my mouth were, "Haku's the Japanese version of a luckdragon!  No wonder he's so helpful!"

As for the translation, yes, the text is in green and red; it's by Ralph Manheim, 1983, Library of Congress #82-45197, ISBN #0-385-17622-8.

[Shachza]

Well, actually, Michael Ende wrote Die unendliche Geschichte back in 1979.
(Look, I know I'm old, but I'm not that old.)

I was talking about really old things.  Like some of the legends to come out of egypt or sumeria; translating through half a dozen or more languages has to lose something along the way.

[Gornemant]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

I do believe that there's a rule about that, Gorn...

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

Actually, that was me translating all of the non-English.   

I can just barely make out what Goremant said in Schwäbisch (a southwestern dialect of German):  "No worries.  I currently live in Schwaben, but I can still speak a bit of Standard German here and there."
I think.

*snerks* "No worries, although I'm living in the land of the "Schwaben", they can still speak a little regular German every now and then". I might note that their dialect is known for being somewhat hard to understand, kinda like if you were trying to understand Schwizerdütsch (swiss-german dialect). 

[Shachza]

*snerks* "No worries, although I'm living in the land of the "Schwaben", they can still speak a little regular German every now and then". I might note that their dialect is known for being somewhat hard to understand, kinda like if you were trying to understand Schwizerdütsch (swiss-german dialect). 

Or that Yorkshire(?) accent that reduces every vowel in every word to the "ay" sound.

"Gayd day tay yay may fraynd!"

[candide]

*snerks* I know, I was more hinting that I didn't really like nor understood the old German language quite as well as the regular one. (Kei Sorg, I leb jetzt zwa im Schwabeland abe e bisele Hochdeutsch könet die au hin u wiede )

I do believe that there's a rule about that, Gorn...

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

Actually, that was me translating all of the non-English.   

I can just barely make out what Goremant said in Schwäbisch (a southwestern dialect of German):  "No worries.  I currently live in Schwaben, but I can still speak a bit of Standard German here and there."
I think.

*snerks* "No worries, although I'm living in the land of the "Schwaben", they can still speak a little regular German every now and then". I might note that their dialect is known for being somewhat hard to understand, kinda like if you were trying to understand Schwizerdütsch (swiss-german dialect). 

  I'm not at all surprised that I didn't translate it right.  I couldn't figure out what the heck "zwa" was supposed to be, so I ignored it and tried to figure out the rest from context.

That's the trouble with dialects... some of the words are just irrecognizable, while many others are "false-friends."  Leads to all sorts of amusing trouble.   

[Tapewolf]

That's the trouble with dialects... some of the words are just irrecognizable, while many others are "false-friends."  Leads to all sorts of amusing trouble.   

I'm reminded of the scene in Name of the Rose where the locals are going truffle hunting.
Someone asks Adso what they're up to and he tells them, unfortunately his accent confused things, turning 'Der Truffel' into 'Der Teufel'.  The older man blesses himself, having apparently been told that they're going to hunt down the Devil in the woods and eat him.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

... No, he didn't. In fact, it's fairly clear from his original post that he didn't, since the section in parenthesis at the end does not match, in any way, the section in parenthesis in German. Even without knowing what the words mean, "Werner" does not appear in the German section, for example.

Not to mention his apology, above your response...

... and are you complaining about moderator actions, Citizen? ;-]



Gorn: Yes, no harm meant, hence why a polite nudge, rather than a big gripe session and growling and stuff. ;-]

[Gornemant]

*tosses good 'ol box a bone* 

[Mao]

... and are you complaining about moderator actions, Citizen? ;-]

fixed.

I <3 Friend Computer.

[Anker Steadfast]

Considering he translated all the non-english, I think we can let it slide.

... No, he didn't. In fact, it's fairly clear from his original post that he didn't, since the section in parenthesis at the end does not match, in any way, the section in parenthesis in German. Even without knowing what the words mean, "Werner" does not appear in the German section, for example.

Not to mention his apology, above your response...

... and are you complaining about moderator actions, Citizen? ;-]

Durr ... me sorry, me undead ... need moar brains !!!

[gavinfoxx]

....Awww... no one came up with any creative replies to my question, instead everyone is talking about German!

[Anker Steadfast]

....Awww... no one came up with any creative replies to my question, instead everyone is talking about German!

Maybe it was because :

... the size pun was so obviously against the PG-13 rating that noone wanted to comment on it ?
... We might have gotten slightly derailed and gone off topic ?

You choose.

[Mao]

Going off topic is perfectly permissible, you know.  Natural flow of conversation and what not.  If it wasn't, I'd have been strung up by now.

[Anker Steadfast]

Going off topic is perfectly permissible, you know.  Natural flow of conversation and what not. 

Agreed.

If it wasn't, I'd have been strung up by now.

I tried that once .. wasn't really me.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Going off topic is perfectly permissible, you know.  Natural flow of conversation and what not.  If it wasn't, I'd have been strung up by now.

I thought you had been?

[Mao]

Yes, but those times it was in a positive context for me.  I haven't been strung up in the bad way yet....probably because I might like it.