05/16/09 [DMFA #1002] - Understanding

[icarus]

re: the title bar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wedmjYnTPxE

ONCE YOUVE BEEN TO BAIA, MY FRIEND! YOU NEVER RETURN!

[techmaster-glitch]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees

Including: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WildMassGuessing

[Tapewolf]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees

I'll admit I said that because I was playing Devil's advocate, but given that it's a dream and we know that Cyra has been manipulating it, I'd be fascinated to see you disprove it 

I think it's more likely for the same reason Destania chooses not to visit: she's a major player in supernatural politics (or wars), so her presence would probably attract the attention of entities that Dan and Lost Lake (and maybe even Destania) aren't prepared to handle yet. In other words, a direct visit would blow their cover.

I hope she lays out the bare facts to Dan in a direct way so he'll understand.  First point, Dragons will kill him if he runs into them in full 'Cubi form or with his mark visible.

3.) I still haven't decided if she's going to be a loving grandmother that really wants to help him become more powerful for the sake of his own well-being, or if she's going to help him now so that he can be part of her Machiavellian schemes at a later date. Then again, she could be both. Goodness knows human grandmothers are capable of that kind of thing, so imagine what 'Cubi family machinations could be like!

This is a very real possibility.  While people have noted that grandmothers tend to dote upon their grandchildren (which is true), it's possible that they may be thinking of Cyra as a human, which she isn't.  In other words, we know how human/Being grandmothers view their grandchildren, and at the end of the day this has a lot to do with them continuing the line as it were.

With 'Cubi, the fact that they can live indefinitely gives the horrible possibility that someone like Cyra might plan to have children to carry out a specific purpose, the way you or I might go out and buy a power drill or something.
That's the worst case, though.  It is tempered by the fact that Cyra herself can no longer have children of her own anyway, so it could go either way.

[Shachza]

Dan is going to have a whole new hatred for the phrase "I wouldn't go out with you even if you were the last of your kind."

[bdplague]

"My apologies, It has been so long since I have had the option to communicate to one of my descendants . Only Destaina remains and she has long given up the ability to dream. Regardless, it fills my heart with joy that I have the option once again. And that I can finally meet my grandson for the first time. Albeit not Psychically but perhaps at a (safer?) point. (No idea bar the odd word now )"

I believe that last sentance actually reads closer to "Albeit not physically but perhaps at some point...." don't see another 'a' in there but I could be wrong.

I second/third/fourth/whatever the motion for Amber giving us that wall-o-text! I'm always curious to learn more about stuff, and it looks interesting to read. Darn you Dan, for not paying attention! *shakes fist*

[Kabbalist]

This is a very real possibility.  While people have noted that grandmothers tend to dote upon their grandchildren (which is true), it's possible that they may be thinking of Cyra as a human, which she isn't....

With 'Cubi, the fact that they can live indefinitely gives the horrible possibility that someone like Cyra might plan to have children to carry out a specific purpose, the way you or I might go out and buy a power drill or something.
That's the worst case, though.  It is tempered by the fact that Cyra herself can no longer have children of her own anyway, so it could go either way.

Or both ways. I've seen and read of examples of grandmothers caring deeply for their grandchildren but also using them as pawns. Then again, sometimes grandkids bring out the best in a grandmother, at least as long as they're "good" grandchildren. Case in point: I've got a grandmother that I've been told can be a raging, contrary she-beast, but she's always been relatively sweet around me.

There's also the whole "ancient and inhumanly powerful" angle. You're very right that she might have a completely different view of morality and family than a being would. Heck, for all we know her mind could be so different as to be entirely alien by this point. That's probably taking things to the extreme, though.

[Aganerral]

I just got the feeling that Cyra's been feeling lonely

I hope that Dan and Dee arne't the last of their clan.  I think it's more likely that it's a direct bloodline descendent thing.  No one else in the canon (Fi, Falina, DP, Abel) seemed too surprised about finding another Cyra member.  Though I don't think that there are all that many out there given that the dragons seem to be actively hunting them still.

THough between this and Abel's story, I wonder about Fa'lina's instruction to Abel on protecting Dan from dragons.  What exactly does Fa'lina expect Abel to be able to do to protect Dan if they do run into a non-Pyroduck dragon?

[OminousShadow]

I have so missed Dan's annoyed expression.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

One point about the whole "Exotic hiding from the Dragons that will kill us if we make so much as one misstep." theory as to why Cyra can't/doesn't physically contact Dan is Lost lake inn itself. I can look up the comic later (I'm on a borrowed computer, and short on time.) but I distinctly recall Fa'Lina knocking Dan out with a picture of the Cyra clan symbol that was kept in Lost Lake. Fi sees it as well, when he first comes to teleport Dan to SAIA.

Now, if one is that paranoid, you probably wouldn't keep a picture of the Dragon's hated enemy just lying around in plain sight, even if it is down a basement. Destania is too canny to let something that incriminating lying around. I personally don't think that this Dragon vendetta is against Cyra clan per se, but possibly more against Destania.

Remember, we don't know exactly when that flashback of Fi's is chronologically. (The one where Destania argues with Fa'Lina about the necessity of wiping out the Dragons.) It is certainly plausible that when was at least willing to forget about it until they captured Edward for some unrelated reason, and that's what started off her big Plan O Revenge.

[Garsemor]

One point about the whole "Exotic hiding from the Dragons that will kill us if we make so much as one misstep." theory as to why Cyra can't/doesn't physically contact Dan is Lost lake inn itself. I can look up the comic later (I'm on a borrowed computer, and short on time.) but I distinctly recall Fa'Lina knocking Dan out with a picture of the Cyra clan symbol that was kept in Lost Lake. Fi sees it as well, when he first comes to teleport Dan to SAIA.

Now, if one is that paranoid, you probably wouldn't keep a picture of the Dragon's hated enemy just lying around in plain sight, even if it is down a basement. Destania is too canny to let something that incriminating lying around. I personally don't think that this Dragon vendetta is against Cyra clan per se, but possibly more against Destania.

Remember, we don't know exactly when that flashback of Fi's is chronologically. (The one where Destania argues with Fa'Lina about the necessity of wiping out the Dragons.) It is certainly plausible that when was at least willing to forget about it until they captured Edward for some unrelated reason, and that's what started off her big Plan O Revenge.

Look at the 4th panel above the bed, http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_378.php , the Cyra clan symbols are not just in frames.

I just got the feeling that Cyra's been feeling lonely

I hope that Dan and Dee arne't the last of their clan.  I think it's more likely that it's a direct bloodline descendent thing.  No one else in the canon (Fi, Falina, DP, Abel) seemed too surprised about finding another Cyra member.  Though I don't think that there are all that many out there given that the dragons seem to be actively hunting them still.

THough between this and Abel's story, I wonder about Fa'lina's instruction to Abel on protecting Dan from dragons.  What exactly does Fa'lina expect Abel to be able to do to protect Dan if they do run into a non-Pyroduck dragon?

Yell for help. If a fight whit a dragon brakes out he can't do much. A) he is minuscule compared to a dragon and B ) He vomits at the sight of blood. If he can do anything it's run for help or maybe serve as a distraction.

[inuhanyo]

Idea to consider.   Is the dragon-cubi war really over?  Or have the dragons switched strategies, and are now picking the cubi off, one clan at a time?

Or is Hizell pursuing a private vendetta?

Look at the 4th panel above the bed, http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_378.php , the Cyra clan symbols are not just in frames.

Good spot check,   Why the heck is the Cyra clan mark emblazoned on the headboard of Alexsi's bed?  Possibly the bed used to be Dee's before, Dee didn't start hiding her headwings until after Dan was born.  Another indication that Destania didn't feel the need to hide her clan affiliation until sometime after she settled down with Edward and had Dan.

[Tapewolf]

Idea to consider.   Is the dragon-cubi war really over?  Or have the dragons switched strategies, and are now picking the cubi off, one clan at a time?
Or is Hizell pursuing a private vendetta?

I've read that the war ended thousands of years ago.  That doesn't mean that there couldn't be isolated skirmishes afterwards.  The Creature Council, interestingly, appears to have both a Tri-Wing and a Dragon among its members.

However I would not be surprised if they have, as you say, switched tactics.  Equally it might be that Hizell is some kind of fanatic who thinks that they shouldn't have called it off.  (Though the same could equally be said of Destania)

Good spot check,   Why the heck is the Cyra clan mark emblazoned on the headboard of Alexsi's bed?  Possibly the bed used to be Dee's before, Dee didn't start hiding her headwings until after Dan was born.

That's almost certainly Dee's bed.  My guess is that before or after she married she went back to SAIA to hand in her notice and retrieve whatever family heirlooms she had at the Academy.

Dangerous thing to have around, though.  If the dragons hate Cyra's clan that much, they might see the insignia and kill Alexsi on general principle.

[Feather Dancer]

"Seriously Ducky, what reason would you possibly want to be near the kill zone that makes up Destina's family?"

Source, I remembered nearly word for word scarily.

I think it's more of a Dee vs. Dragons rather than the Cyra clan it's self given she directly mentioned Dee's family. Possibly somewhat originally sparked from Aniz no doubt breaking up with her after his clan was destroyed? Plus Bigg's mentioned Dee'd been a friend of the family for generations...

[Azlan]

Dangerous thing to have around, though.  If the dragons hate Cyra's clan that much, they might see the insignia and kill Alexsi on general principle.

I've always thought the symbols might have been something akin to magical detection/scry wards that concealed the presence of the family, specifically Dan, from those searching for Crya's ilk.  A sort of compromise, protecting one from the magical location spells, but having to be out and visible.  Which in most ways is fine, if they have no reason to search a place then those looking will never visually see the symbols.

Fi states that because Dan is of Crya's clan they weren't able to detect him (#422)... I originally assumed it was possibly a ward because I was considering magical non-detection, even if magical ability is inherent, as an active "spell" one would have to maintain.  Considering that dragons are hunting her and the remains of her clan, maintaining such for those one wishes to protect, would have left herself open to detection due to the use of magic.  Since I have no concrete evidence for how magic worked at the time, or any specific insight into the nature of magical things, this seemed logical... working off of magical theories from fictional sources such as David Eddings, Mercedes Lackey, Terry Brooks, etc.

However, having revealed that detection is not so easy even for dragons, as Hizell needed Siar's essence to hunt down the last vestiges of her clan, it makes me believe that one requires a 'scent' of the prey to be able to sniff them out.  This may mean that 'Cubi are magically stealthy creatures by nature... or dragons just fail at divination style magics.


It may also be that the wars are largely over, except for a few old grudges that are being actively pursued.  Aary wasn't specifically worried about wandering around in public... but since there is not a lot of public scenes and even less 'Cubi (except at SAIA of course), it is just a personal theory at the moment.

[Ganurath]

On the thought that Cyra is in a shapeshifting disguise:

It would explain why Pip attacks Dan whenever he flirts with one of the few races that can't (safely) reproduce with Cubi.

[Michael Chandra]

And working together with Mab on her secret goal, which includes Jyrras' mining tools helping Beings defend themselves against Creatures... Gasp! They want to 'mine' the Dragons!

[GabrielsThoughts]

maybe she's chatty becuase she hasn't spoken to anyone in so long. but that could get annoying really fast.

Or because she's a grandmother. 

statistically the older you get the less physical/emotional contact you receive, so the argument still stands.

[Ghostwish]

On the thought that Cyra is in a shapeshifting disguise:

It would explain why Pip attacks Dan whenever he flirts with one of the few races that can't (safely) reproduce with Cubi.

Nice one! The possibilities are endless.

[kazzellin]

Um, guys? I think there's a much simpler reason for Cyra not being in contact with Destania.

After a while, 'Cubi in general don't need to sleep.

No sleep, no dreams.

No dreams, no Cyra chit-chat.

Otherwise, yeah, I kinda agree with the idea of Cyra meaning direct descendants. I mean, who knows how many kids she had, and it's possible nearly all of her kids were killed in the 'Cubi/Dragon wars. Or, if her grandkids were all told how to not dream immediately after coming to power, or, as they got older, just slept less and less until they were just up around the clock without really noticing when that happened. . . Actually, that last is kind of an amusing thought. One way to get term papers done, I suppose.

[inuhanyo]

Um, guys? I think there's a much simpler reason for Cyra not being in contact with Destania.

After a while, 'Cubi in general don't need to sleep.

No sleep, no dreams.

No dreams, no Cyra chit-chat.

Otherwise, yeah, I kinda agree with the idea of Cyra meaning direct descendants. I mean, who knows how many kids she had, and it's possible nearly all of her kids were killed in the 'Cubi/Dragon wars. Or, if her grandkids were all told how to not dream immediately after coming to power, or, as they got older, just slept less and less until they were just up around the clock without really noticing when that happened. . . Actually, that last is kind of an amusing thought. One way to get term papers done, I suppose.

Dan complained about insomnia the evening his wing tentacles manifested.  Cyra got lucky, I think, Dan's fight brought out his clan mark and enabled Cyra to sense him.  And his blood loss made him sleepy again and he can still dream.

[Orion Asmodeus Dezagrats]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EpilepticTrees

Goddamnit, you got me started on a 2 hour archive binge!

[LeftBlank]

I'd start with the middle panel of #501, then...

[LeftBlank]

And where did Jyrras get the source materials for the patch shown in panel 4 of #246?? 

[Tapewolf]

Um, guys? I think there's a much simpler reason for Cyra not being in contact with Destania.
After a while, 'Cubi in general don't need to sleep.
No sleep, no dreams.

I think you may be getting the cause and effect backwards there.

'Cubi don't need to sleep, but they can.  Abel does, for example, and it's likely that virtually all 'Cubi who choose to live as Beings will also do so purely to keep up the disguise.

However, the ability to dream fades with time.  We don't know how long that takes.  When they can no longer dream, Cyra's trick is not going to work for them.  They also tend to stop bothering to sleep at this point.

[Alondro]

You know, the fertility issue with clan founders makes me wonder something, especially since science is starting to advance in Furrae.

I wonder if anyone has thought about trying to clone Cubi.   

[Tapewolf]

I wonder if anyone has thought about trying to clone Cubi.   

I did.  I'm assuming that you get just the genetic parts, or in other words, a Being.

[Keleth]

I wonder if anyone has thought about trying to clone Cubi.   

I did.  I'm assuming that you get just the genetic parts, or in other words, a Being.

Congratulations! I didn't know you got written into Amber's cannon.

Woot, grats! 

[Turnsky]

I wonder if anyone has thought about trying to clone Cubi.   

I did.  I'm assuming that you get just the genetic parts, or in other words, a Being.

Congratulations! I didn't know you got written into Amber's cannon.

Woot, grats! 

he bribed her. 

[Keleth]

I wonder if anyone has thought about trying to clone Cubi.   

I did.  I'm assuming that you get just the genetic parts, or in other words, a Being.

Congratulations! I didn't know you got written into Amber's cannon.

Woot, grats! 

he bribed her. 

For as much as my dad paid for a 1984 honda goldwing I hear

[Tapewolf]

Congratulations! I didn't know you got written into Amber's cannon.

The question was "Did anyone think about it?".  Nothing was said about canon.