04/24/09 [Abel 2 #52] - How to charm a lady

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

Yes. It's here. The thread is closed so I can't cite the excact post, but that's the page.

Sure you can. You just need to locate it, and copy the link from the top of that post.

Doh!

[Goatmon]

Man, nobody has any business acting surprized.  There was every sign that Aniz and Destania had something going on; There are multiple signs pointing him out as the father of her son, so unless we've been misled, they most likely had a booty call at the very least. 

I can explain my reasoning through the wonderful power of mathematics!  (Ladies, you are free to leave)

Abel is currenetly 399, and started attending Saia at age 24.  Dan started attending at his current age of 25. 

That puts their attendance exactly 375 years apart. 

(If that doesn't mean anything to you, try re-reading this page.)

That is to say nothing about the physical resemblance, which clicks with the typical Cubi trait that causes most Cubi to take after the appearance of the weaker parent (Which is probably not Destania, considering everything we've heard about her).  Or how we've never actually seen anything of Edward, beyond a couple basic images of him that don't expose the spot his symbol would appear on.  To be honest, I had no real stock in this theory until the 375 year ban came into it.

Personally, I'm more surprized at how similar Aniz's outward personality is to Dan's, before the cubi heritage made everything complicated.  Seems later events hit him pretty hard (thanks in no small part to Destania, I'm sure.)

[Tapewolf]

Man, nobody has any business acting surprized.  There was every sign that Aniz and Destania had something going on; There are multiple signs pointing him out as the father of her son, so unless we've been misled, they most likely had a booty call at the very least. 

This may be up your street, then:  http://dmfa.wikia.com/wiki/Edward-Aniz_Theory

[Goatmon]

Thanks, I guess?

A couple actual facts about the comic are there, but a lot of the theorycrafting seems to be based on dialogue and lines that may or may not have meant anything at the time, which falls in line with a story-driven comic that has been in production for so long; I can't really make any certain assumptions about Amber, but it's not likely that she had all of this planned out ahead of time.  The main story, maybe, but the specific details were probably worked out over time.  The only dialogue that matters most are in the more recent comics.

There are plenty of suggestive and discouraging elements that lean either way, regarding the theory, but until the ban came along there was no solid connection of any kind. 

So it's still just a probable theory, just more probable than it was before the second half of Abel's Story came along.

[Tapewolf]

A couple actual facts about the comic are there, but a lot of the theorycrafting seems to be based on dialogue and lines that may or may not have meant anything at the time, which falls in line with a story-driven comic that has been in production for so long; I can't really make any certain assumptions about Amber, but it's not likely that she had all of this planned out ahead of time.  The main story, maybe, but the specific details were probably worked out over time.  The only dialogue that matters most are in the more recent comics.

Indeed.  I should probably add that as a counterargument 
At the end of the day we can but wait and see.  Like I say, it may be intended as the climax for Abel's Story.

[Naldru]

I have a simple rule.  If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck, and looks like a duck, it may or may not be a duck.  However, the idea of it being a duck is worthy of consideration as a hypothesis.

I sincerely doubt that Amber had planned the "Get Me to the Church" arc at the time that she drew
strip 78.  However, looking at how well they fit together, it seems likely that Amber was thinking of the earlier strip when she created the arc.  So I would actually pay more attention to the seemingly random incidents in earlier strips that seem to mesh with later strips, for it may show that she is trying to incorporate the earlier material in her story. 

Also, remember that seeing us fight over crazy ideas makes Amber happy.  Considering the joy that she has given us, I feel that we owe it to her to amuse her with our antics over her antics.

[Psy-Kosh]

Also, remember that seeing us fight over crazy ideas makes Amber happy.  Considering the joy that she has given us, I feel that we owe it to her to amuse her with our antics over her antics.

You know what this means, of course. We need to travel and talk about the past so we can have an Antics Antics Antiques Roadshow!

[Garsemor]

I just went truth some of the Archives and I think I found a link between Dan and Aniz in DMFA http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_936.php . Sorry if I'm reviving old theories again or if this was already said.

[Naldru]

I just went truth some of the Archives and I think I found a link between Dan and Aniz in DMFA http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_936.php . Sorry if I'm reviving old theories again or if this was already said.

That is Destania in the picture, if that is what you are referring to.

Edit:

My assumption was that she was referring to the dragons.  Are you suggesting that she was referring to Amiz's clan?

[Garsemor]

Actually I think it is Aniz and not Dee who is talking to Fa'lina. I just think that it would be strange for Fi to flash back to a point of discussion between Aniz and Fa'lina walst he is listening to Dan. I think the little warp-aci knows more than he's saying.

[AmigaDragon]

It's not Aniz, it's Dee. Despite the muted colors, note that she's blue, not brown. Also, Aniz doesn't have those perky assets as shown in panel 3.

[Valynth]

It's not Aniz, it's Dee. Despite the muted colors, note that she's blue, not brown. Also, Aniz doesn't have those perky assets as shown in panel 3.

Hey, don't introduce facts to a gathering of comic theories!

The theories usually end up in the dark alley next to my place and they're a pain in the rear to clean up!

[Garsemor]

I guess we should stop this debate, until there is any other solid evidence. The only thing I could base this on was the resemblance between page 17 in AS http://missmab.com/Comics/Ab_017.php and the Fi's flashback.

[Michael Chandra]

It's not Aniz, it's Dee. Despite the muted colors, note that she's blue, not brown. Also, Aniz doesn't have those perky assets as shown in panel 3.

That and "I guess he did get more than just her wings."

[Naldru]

I can explain my reasoning through the wonderful power of mathematics!  (Ladies, you are free to leave)

I just wanted to raise two points.

There have been comments in the past that bragging about "I knew it before you knew it" really blew it as far as etiquette goes and could cause some resentment.

Suggesting that women lack math skills could be considered fighting words by some.  Back in the prehistoric times when I was a graduate assistant, I would say that the lack of mathematical ability was about even between men and women.  It should also be remembered that any clues in the plots based on mathematical relationships would have been placed there by Amber, who is in fact female.

******

Edit:

Well, I've also seen mathematical studies proving that bumblebees can't fly.  Have you ever heard the story about the blind men and the elephant?  Mathematical reasoning is composed of a great many attributes, just like intelligence in general.  In some areas, such as the ability to navigate an unfamiliar area, men have come out much better.  Women tend to rank higher in other areas.  So the big question is how you ranked the mathematical ability of the individuals.  I'm sorry, but Sturgeon's law appears to apply to studies on mathematical abilities and educational techniques quite well,

I have also noted that Piaget levels in mathematics can produce dramatically different mathematical skills as the individuals develop.  For example, many people refuse to believe in certain facts, no matter how they are presented.  They would rather follow their hunches than try to reason it out.  They may look like mathematical idiots, but it isn't their mathematical ability that is the problem, it is whether they believe the results of their calculations in preference to their own emotional beliefs.  Just look at how many play the lottery despite the bad odds on the games.

To quote that great philosopher, Will Rogers:  "It isn't what we don't know that hurts us.  It's what we know, but isn't so."

[Arcblade]

Addendum of the third part of the above: Statistically speaking, men fill out both sides of the spectrum:  both genius and idiots of math.  Women tend to be in the middle, normally distributed.  We're not entirely sure why.  (I'm a Psych major... trust me, these things have been studied)

On an entirely different note, one of my friends firmly believes that Dan's father is not Aniz.  Rather, he is a dragon.  And when Destania stumbled into the tavern, it was right after she had just finished killing Aniz.  I thought the idea was interesting enough to punt into forumland.  Batter away!

[Indy]

On an entirely different note, one of my friends firmly believes that Dan's father is not Aniz.  Rather, he is a dragon.  And when Destania stumbled into the tavern, it was right after she had just finished killing Aniz.  I thought the idea was interesting enough to punt into forumland.  Batter away!

Except that Dragon traits are all dominant, so Dan wouldn't be a Cubi if his father were a Dragon, no matter how powerful Destania is, or how weak his father is.

OUTLANDISH THEORY TIME: Me, I think Edward was a Were, first and foremost because I don't think Destania would have taken a second glance at him if he were a perfectly normal being. We know the Were are more friendly with Cubi than with most races, so it's possible that Cubi and Were have ways of communicating to each other who they are, or of finding each other.

Now here's the stretchy part. We know the Were, Humans and Beings are closely related and showed up at about the same time. Then, for some reason, Humans all died out, and the Were were almost annihilated and went into hiding. The Were are the only ones who know how Humans disappeared. Based on what we know about the Dragons and the Cubi-Dragon war, I think it's highly likely that some Dragon (or group of Dragons) decided that Humans and Were had offended them somehow and set off to destroy both races. Obviously they succeeded with Humans and sent the entire Were race into hiding.

Cue Destania and Edward. If Destania is so set on destroying the Dragons, but can't get Fa'Lina or too many other clans to help her after the war, she's going to need a different set of allies. So she goes off in search of Were, who are not only immune to magic in their human form (making them very useful against magically powerful Dragons) but are "highly potent" magically in their very subtle primal form, maybe even enough to compete against a Dragon.

Now if Edward is the traditional Were and doesn't want anything to do with Dragons, Destania needs a way to get him to want to fight for her. Destania fakes her injuries like Amber's said, and gets him to fall for her, bearing a child who is most likely both Were and Cubi (Dan). At some point Edward engages in battle with a Dragon, and, uh, loses spectacularly. So Destania's stuck raising Dan by herself (though apparently she grows to not mind it so much), and Edward is captured by Dragons. Destania's fallen in love with Edward, so she teams up with Biggs to end the Dragon race once and for all.

Ta da! I'm sure there's a better way to explain this in much fewer than four paragraphs, but I am tired. My brain is not efficient today.

[Rakyth]

I'm sure Amber is looking down on us and laughing at us at this very moment as we write*.

Not sure bout ya'll, but I know I am

[Michael Chandra]

On an entirely different note, one of my friends firmly believes that Dan's father is not Aniz.  Rather, he is a dragon.  And when Destania stumbled into the tavern, it was right after she had just finished killing Aniz.  I thought the idea was interesting enough to punt into forumland.  Batter away!

Except that Dragon traits are all dominant, so Dan wouldn't be a Cubi if his father were a Dragon, no matter how powerful Destania is, or how weak his father is.

But it clearly says that sometimes the dragon genes will ignore other genes, and most half-breeds result in more dragons. Not all. A strong Cubi may compensate.

[Garsemor]

If we are starting to involve dragons now I would like to add a somewhat distant theory.
If what Pyroduck says, about him being from the future is true, it may be possible that Dan would be a savior of the dragons who would stand up against his own mother for the grater good because the genocide of an entire race is just terrifying.

On an entirely different note, one of my friends firmly believes that Dan's father is not Aniz.  Rather, he is a dragon.  And when Destania stumbled into the tavern, it was right after she had just finished killing Aniz.  I thought the idea was interesting enough to punt into forumland.  Batter away!

Except that Dragon traits are all dominant, so Dan wouldn't be a Cubi if his father were a Dragon, no matter how powerful Destania is, or how weak his father is.

But it clearly says that sometimes the dragon genes will ignore other genes, and most half-breeds result in more dragons. Not all. A strong Cubi may compensate.

Also I have noticed a Dragon-Cubi at SAIA page 530 http://missmab.com/Comics/Vol_530.php . Correct me if I am wrong.

[AmigaDragon]

Actually, I believe that was identified as a mythos.

[Tapewolf]

If what Pyroduck says, about him being from the future is true, it may be possible that Dan would be a savior of the dragons who would stand up against his own mother for the grater good because the genocide of an entire race is just terrifying.

Destania's not even a tri-wing.  I don't see how she can possibly bring about - in one night - the extinction of a godlike race that is spread across multiple universes and time periods.  IMHO, the only thing she stands a slight hope of doing is expelling them from their universe and preventing them from returning.

[Garsemor]

If what Pyroduck says, about him being from the future is true, it may be possible that Dan would be a savior of the dragons who would stand up against his own mother for the grater good because the genocide of an entire race is just terrifying.

Destania's not even a tri-wing.  I don't see how she can possibly bring about - in one night - the extinction of a godlike race that is spread across multiple universes and time periods.  IMHO, the only thing she stands a slight hope of doing is expelling them from their universe and preventing them from returning.

Let's not forget that Dee was cold blooded enough to try and use children in her class and she was cold boded enough to use her own son as a means of stopping DP although she new it was dangerous. She might not be a tri-wing but she has no problem using every one to achieve her goals. And if Amber doesn't say it can't be, it can be.

[Tapewolf]

Let's not forget that Dee was cold blooded enough to try and use children in her class and she was cold boded enough to use her own son as a means of stopping DP although she new it was dangerous. She might not be a tri-wing but she has no problem using every one to achieve her goals. And if Amber doesn't say it can't be, it can be.

Oh, I have no doubt that she'd like to, it's just that IMHO she is nothing like powerful enough to do it by force of violence.  Think about it... dragons are immensely powerful and widespread.  They're not even native to Furrae AFAIK.
Killing every single dragon in every single era of every single world in every single universe is not something that she could achieve in her current form and power level, and if she didn't do that much, the survivors would be right on her tail.

Now, I suppose there are a few variations:
1. She might be able to make some kind of Dragon Plague.  That might work, but plagues tend to evolve and the dragons are liable to find or develop an immunity.

2. If she can seal off Furrae to prevent reinforcements, she might be able to track down and kill all the existing members of that race, but IMHO that would take more than one night (725) and is more likely to get her killed instead.

EDIT:

3. She ascends to tri-wing status.  Personally I doubt it.  It's too rare an event, has a less than 10% chance of success ("dozens of failures for each successful attempt", failed attempts are fatal) and Cyra might not like the competition.  Also, the Dragons are powerful enough to smack down a tri-wing anyway.

[Garsemor]

Let's just drop the discussion for now, we have no clear evidence of this and so we can't really achieve a point where we will agree. Until Amber provides any more evidence we really can't know.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Destania's not even a tri-wing.  I don't see how she can possibly bring about - in one night - the extinction of a godlike race that is spread across multiple universes and time periods.  IMHO, the only thing she stands a slight hope of doing is expelling them from their universe and preventing them from returning.

Just to drop some oil on troubled waters (and then set it alight) just how much power would Destania gain from eating a dragon's soul? Or lots of them, if she can?

Might not be tri-wing, but that's an awful lot of power floating about...

[Tapewolf]

Just to drop some oil on troubled waters (and then set it alight) just how much power would Destania gain from eating a dragon's soul? Or lots of them, if she can?

Might not be tri-wing, but that's an awful lot of power floating about...

That is an intriguing idea.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

That is an intriguing idea.

Of course, there's the obverse - anything with that much power is going to eat her for breakfast if she attempts it.

Quite possibly literally.