03/12/09 [Abel 2 #48] - When he left her, he was but the learner…

[Pagan]

Isn't that the reason for liking Destania? That she's a horrible genocidal bitch?

[Psy-Kosh]

Time to boggle our minds: Destania was May all along for the sake of stringing along Aniz and put him deeper into his madness.

As to how she managed to simultaneously teach, I suggest that she had a doppelganger fill in.

That would make Dan and Able half-brothers, and Able full-blooded 'Cubi.  Which is not consistant with his appearance.  No, I don't buy it.

How so? While I find the "May was really Destinia all along" theory to be unlikely, I don't know of anything in Abel's apperance that someone with both parents being cubi couldn't have.

[Tipod]

I kinda thought that was the point.

Isn't that the reason for liking Destania? That she's a horrible genocidal bitch?

I like how these two responses come like seconds after each other.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

I'm still on the fence. I get the impression that she knows she's being watched and plays each character she interacts with for a desired reaction. I dislike the manipulation, I like the subtlety. I still haven't seen anything I would consider conclusive as to her "real" motives, and until I do, I'm going to reserve judgement.

[Ted Schiller]

Does anybody besides me really not like Destania? Not in the sense that she's handled poorly or a badly-done character, but in that she just comes off as really vile and despicable?

Junker officer vs SS officer.  With Abel in the middle. 

With regards,
Ted

[Anodyne]

Going to have to de-lurk on this one because I just had a thought (and forgive me if it's already been brought up) but this comic reminded me back in #527 when Ink was bugging Abel "Here I was thinking you actually cared about his welfare since he happens to be Edward Ti'Fiona's son..." I was always wondering why would he care about an adventurer...

Could it be because he made Destania stop being evil? I mean we saw back then the comics where she simply said it was her laws to kill Edward and next thing we knew, she was married and starting a new life with Dan's birth... but until now, don't think we've ever had a scope of how... can't beat around the bush, just plain evil she is at this point and time.

I dunno. I'm thinking any initial interest Abel would have in Dan's casefile, so to speak, would be spurred by the apparent similarities between the two.
Think about it:

• both are the product of...relations...between a Being and a Cubi;
• both grew up unaware, initially, of their Cubi heritage;
• both had their Cubi parent in their lives, growing up;
• both grew up in communities that tolerated Creatures to an extent;
• and, most importantly from Abel's perspective, both Aniz and Destania lived as Beings while their kids were growing up (or at least, that's probably how Abel would've seen it to start with - Dee might've been willing to admit that she was a Cubi if anyone asked, but I wouldn't be surprised if she went out of her way to make sure the subject never came up);
• and one last point: neither Aniz nor Destania ever told their kids that they had the potential for Cubi heritage.
  

And, with this in mind, remember that Abel's casting info tells us that he really, really doesn't like people who hide behind secret identities, especially if they're pulling shenanigans like Aniz did.
Then consider how Dee's actions might look, from Abel's perspective. Consider what his initial reaction would be.

I'm thinking, he would've been willing to at least keep an eye on Dan to try and make sure that Destania didn't pull the same shenanigans Aniz did, and go all "surprise, you're a Cubi! Oh, and also, I shall kill your loved ones, threaten the survivors, and then teleport you to a new location, and threaten your surviving loved ones some more."

Also, Tipod, that...really is the point to Destania, at least before she leaves SAIA. Frankly, it's the point to any Cubi who was taught by her, and to any Cubi who feeds off of anger, fear, misery, or pain: they are terrible, rather sociopathic bastards who are willing to do whatever they feel it takes to get them the emotions they find tastiest. Abel said it himself, when Dan was worrying over his own apparent racism: Cubi, by and large, are not nice people. Some of them feed off of the happy, fluffy emotions - just as many don't, and they're willing to make people bleed, scream, and die in agony if that's what it takes to get their delicious dark chocolate protein smoothie of emotion.

[AndersW]

Time to boggle our minds: Destania was May all along for the sake of stringing along Aniz and put him deeper into his madness.

As to how she managed to simultaneously teach, I suggest that she had a doppelganger fill in.

That would make Dan and Able half-brothers, and Able full-blooded 'Cubi.  Which is not consistant with his appearance.  No, I don't buy it.

That's even more ridiculous than the Aniz is Edward theory.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

I should have thought of this earlier, but I've been a bit slow today.

Initial assumption. Destania, for her morality or lack of it, is smart, and disciplined. Everything she says or does is calculated to get those around her to think, do, feel, or say something that should be beneficial to her.

If we work from that though, we get some odd findings. The way she's saying it, she seems to be taking credit for turning Aniz into what he is now. Considering that she's peeked into Abel's dreams and knows of his antipathy towards his father, that's going to leave Abel with some rather ugly sentiments towards her, once he gets out of his current shock state. (I'm making a secondary assumption that Abel shares the oft-seen ability in comic books and whatnot to recall what everyone says with perfect clarity forever, despite any factors which would diminish recall or information storage)

But I can't think of any reason for Destania to antagonize Abel, unless it's to be one of those "see how pointless anger is, be a manipulative bastard like me and work from the shadows" after she pushes Abel into some destructive fit of rage and snaps him out of it.

I need more data. I can't make bricks without clay.  At times I feel like asking (whining) for DMFA to be put on hold indefinitely and just have Abel's story.

[inuhanyo]

Time to boggle our minds: Destania was May all along for the sake of stringing along Aniz and put him deeper into his madness.

As to how she managed to simultaneously teach, I suggest that she had a doppelganger fill in.

That would make Dan and Able half-brothers, and Able full-blooded 'Cubi.  Which is not consistant with his appearance.  No, I don't buy it.

How so? While I find the "May was really Destania all along" theory to be unlikely, I don't know of anything in Abel's appearance that someone with both parents being Cubi couldn't have.

Citing Cubi Hybrid Genetics

A kid born of a Cubi and non-Cubi parent will almost always resemble the non-Cubi parent physically.

Abel looks like May, except for the wings and his eye color,  What you'd expect from a Cubi and non-Cubi pairing.  If Abel's mother was Destania, you'd expect his coloring to reflect either Aniz or Destania, or both.  And Abel would be Cyra clan, like Dan, because Cyra clan is stronger than Aniz's near-extinct clan.

So it's not what is in Abel's appearance, it's what isn't there.  There's nothing of Destania there.  Whereas with Dan, Dan was not only born with wings, they were the same color as his mom's.  That Dan's eyes are the same color as Destania's may or may not be indicative, we don't know the eye colors on Edward's side, there could have been green lurking in there too.


From the flashbacks, Destania never bothered to hide her headwings until after Dan was born,
and from the circumstances of how she and Edward met, it would have been common knowledge that she was a Succubus.  But after she started hiding her headwings, and became just the wife of the innkeeper and former adventurer, there would seldom have been any reason for anyone to mention it, nor for anyone to inquire about it.  So, for most of the younger generations,  Dan was just a boy with wings, like his mom.  And it was a more tolerant time and place than Abel experienced.

I need more data. I can't make bricks without clay.  At times I feel like asking (whining) for DMFA to be put on hold indefinitely and just have Abel's story.

Sometimes you just have to recognize that we don't have enough information to even speculate.

[inuhanyo]

That's even more ridiculous than the Aniz is Edward theory.

Oh yeah, about that.  Has anyone called attention to the fact that in panel 3 of 297, Edwards left arm is visible enough that it's clear he's wearing nothing that would cover Aniz's clan mark?

[GabrielsThoughts]

funnyI would have thought Aniz was a special kind of cruel all his own... she may have showed him one or two techniques but I doubt Destania had anyhing to do with the finished pr0duct.


because the rule of @$$holes always applies to ass40735 ... and It's not that everyone has one.

I believe the saying goes  "if your a (bung)hole on the internet, you're a (poop)hole in real life.

Therefore Aniz's demonstrated talent for being an 5#!7head in the outside world reflects his talent for being despitefully cruel and malicious in the school setting. You can't teach something like that, it may be learned but there was something there before Destania's influence.   

[Lego3400]

Dan likely knew what Dee is. He just never really cared all that much. He also insisted that he didn't take after her by saying the ONLY thing he got from her was wings. What he ment he also didn't get was Cubi-ness.

[AmigaDragon]

I took that to mean the only thing there was of her that he could (and did) get was her wings, not that he got only part of her cubi heritage, but that he believed she was just a being.

[Zedd]

Well I half expected this but hey if all fingers should be pointed is mostly the one who did the sin in the first place...

[Psy-Kosh]

inuhanyo: ah, okay, fair enough then. So the main point is more "he doesn't look like either Aniz _or_ Destinia, and he should have looked like at least one of them if both of them were his parents"?

[inuhanyo]

inuhanyo: ah, okay, fair enough then. So the main point is more "he doesn't look like either Aniz _or_ Destinia, and he should have looked like at least one of them if both of them were his parents"?

Exactly.

[Alondro]

Isn't that the reason for liking Destania? That she's a horrible genocidal bitch?

*Charline nods*  That's the same reason to like me!     It also makes one ponder the emotion behind Abel's surprise at hearing that Dan was a Ti'Fiona from the venomous Dr. Ink.  Did he already know who married Dan's dad back then?

[GabrielsThoughts]

Isn't that the reason for liking Destania? That she's a horrible genocidal bitch?

*Charline nods*  That's the same reason to like me!     It also makes one ponder the emotion behind Abel's surprise at hearing that Dan was a Ti'Fiona from the venomous Dr. Ink.  Did he already know who married Dan's dad back then?

wait all this time and I finally realise something... Alondro do you have a disassociative  identity or multiple personality  disorder?

[AndersW]

That's even more ridiculous than the Aniz is Edward theory.

Oh yeah, about that.  Has anyone called attention to the fact that in panel 3 of 297, Edwards left arm is visible enough that it's clear he's wearing nothing that would cover Aniz's clan mark?

His left arm is behind his back enough that it could just be that we can't see it.  Every shot we have of Edward has his left forearm off-panel, covered, or in an inconvenient spot.  If we had a clear shot of his left forearm we could finally kill this theory dead. (unless there is a clan marking there)

[Ted Schiller]

(snip)
His left arm is behind his back enough that it could just be that we can't see it.  Every shot we have of Edward has his left forearm off-panel, covered, or in an inconvenient spot.  If we had a clear shot of his left forearm we could finally kill this theory dead. (unless there is a clan marking there)

It would mean Edward is a incubus and of the same clan as Aniz.  It would not prove Edward is Aniz.  Of course, if we get a flashback at a tattooist.  "I saw this adventurer with a really cool tattoo and I want to get one just like it."  "You old enough, kid?"  "Sure thing, here's my driver's license."  "OK, kid.  It's your money." "I'm going to be an adventurer, too."  "Huh-uh. Just sit down there."

With regards,
Ted

[Tapewolf]

It would mean Edward is a incubus and of the same clan as Aniz.  It would not prove Edward is Aniz.

The position of the mark is unique to individuals.  While I guess it's possible that two clan members have the mark in the same place I would guess that's vanishingly improbable.

[AndersW]

(snip)
His left arm is behind his back enough that it could just be that we can't see it.  Every shot we have of Edward has his left forearm off-panel, covered, or in an inconvenient spot.  If we had a clear shot of his left forearm we could finally kill this theory dead. (unless there is a clan marking there)

It would mean Edward is a incubus and of the same clan as Aniz.  It would not prove Edward is Aniz. 

If the clan mark is in the same spot it is reasonable to assume that they are the same person.  Because the chances of another cubi of the same clan that has there clan mark in the exact same spot as Aniz is extremely unlikely.

Edit: ninjaed by Tapewolf

[inuhanyo]

That's even more ridiculous than the Aniz is Edward theory.

Oh yeah, about that.  Has anyone called attention to the fact that in panel 3 of 297, Edwards left arm is visible enough that it's clear he's wearing nothing that would cover Aniz's clan mark?

His left arm is behind his back enough that it could just be that we can't see it.  Every shot we have of Edward has his left forearm off-panel, covered, or in an inconvenient spot.  If we had a clear shot of his left forearm we could finally kill this theory dead. (unless there is a clan marking there)

A bracer wraps around the forearm.  In panel 3 enough of Edwards forearm is visible to show that it is uncovered, if he was Aniz his clan mark would be exposed.  A risk Aniz would not take. 

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

It would mean Edward is a incubus and of the same clan as Aniz.  It would not prove Edward is Aniz.

The position of the mark is unique to individuals.  While I guess it's possible that two clan members have the mark in the same place I would guess that's vanishingly improbable.

You made me think something weird. Would identical twin 'Cubi have clan marks on the same spot? (Do identical twins exist in Furrae at all?)

[Tapewolf]

A bracer wraps around the forearm.  In panel 3 enough of Edwards forearm is visible to show that it is uncovered, if he was Aniz his clan mark would be exposed.  A risk Aniz would not take. 

Why not?  No-one in Lost Lake is liable to have heard of his crimes, or remembered them if they did.  May is the only witness of his clan-mark and she may not have grasped its significance since she doesn't know what 'Cubi are.

If Edward is a 'Cubi, he's been going around wingless (else the guys in the first panel would have strung him up first) and everyone thinks he's a Being.  If he has a clan-mark - especially on his wrist - people who don't recognise the symbol (and Aniz' clanmark is rare enough) are going to write it off as a tattoo, just like May did with Abel's.

You made me think something weird. Would identical twin 'Cubi have clan marks on the same spot? (Do identical twins exist in Furrae at all?)

Amber would have to answer that, I think.

[inuhanyo]

A bracer wraps around the forearm.  In panel 3 enough of Edwards forearm is visible to show that it is uncovered, if he was Aniz his clan mark would be exposed.  A risk Aniz would not take. 

Why not?  No-one in Lost Lake is liable to have heard of his crimes, or remembered them if they did.  May is the only witness of his clan-mark and she may not have grasped its significance since she doesn't know what 'Cubi are.

If Edward is a 'Cubi, he's been going around wingless (else the guys in the first panel would have strung him up first) and everyone thinks he's a Being.  If he has a clan-mark - especially on his wrist - people who don't recognise the symbol (and Aniz' clanmark is rare enough) are going to write it off as a tattoo, just like May did with Abel's.

And Aniz kept his clan mark covered all the while he was being Cid.  He only uncovered it to show Abel when he dropped the masquerade.

In panels 1 & 2, Edward is standing right in front of Destania, with his back to her.  Incredibly risky if he were Aniz, Destania would be all to likely to get at least a glimpse of his clan mark and that would be enough to make her want to check it.  Cover blown.

[Tapewolf]

And Aniz kept his clan mark covered all the while he was being Cid.  He only uncovered it to show Abel when he dropped the masquerade.

On the other hand, Cid didn't have the tattoo.  May didn't seem to approve of Abel getting his so she might not have liked the idea of 'Cid' getting one either.  Also, Aniz knew full well that if his plan succeeded, Abel would get the mark himself - the same mark as his father's - which would have screwed things up somewhat.

In panels 1 & 2, Edward is standing right in front of Destania, with his back to her.  Incredibly risky if he were Aniz, Destania would be all to likely to get at least a glimpse of his clan mark and that would be enough to make her want to check it.  Cover blown.

Very much so, if Aniz was expecting Destania to show up (for simplicity I'm assuming this is Aniz).  But he wasn't.
IMHO the only reason she was likely to encounter him at all is if she comes looking for him and if that's the case - if she knows where he lives - hiding his clanmark is probably not going to help against the likes of her.

**EDIT**
Other possibilities include that he's just decided to stop running and confront her where Destania is concerned.  It is also possible that the reason she found his location at all is because he grew careless about the mark and word made its way to Biggs' family.

[Draken]

I have an interesting theory on the whole Edward/Abel relationship....

What if Abel is really the great(x5) uncle of edward?

Provided Abel's mom wasn't capped, it's not entirely difficult to belive that she found another man (a few years later, granted, but still), and got a normal being child from that?  And given that it's been 330 years or so in events....well, the family tree grew bigger.

Thus, Edward Ti'Fiona might be the nephew to Abel, who married the mentor of Abel's Father.  Thus histories collide.   

It would also explain the reaction Abel gave to Dr. Ink;  "Don't Talk about my (great)nephew!" (maybe?)

[Tapewolf]

Provided Abel's mom wasn't capped, it's not entirely difficult to belive that she found another man (a few years later, granted, but still), and got a normal being child from that?

She was getting on in years, though I suppose it's not entirely impossible.  She was, after all, supposedly a somewhat loose woman in her youth...

[Alondro]

Isn't that the reason for liking Destania? That she's a horrible genocidal bitch?

*Charline nods*  That's the same reason to like me!     It also makes one ponder the emotion behind Abel's surprise at hearing that Dan was a Ti'Fiona from the venomous Dr. Ink.  Did he already know who married Dan's dad back then?

wait all this time and I finally realise something... Alondro do you have a disassociative  identity or multiple personality  disorder?

A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B, and a whole lot of chemicals from lab work.