The Aspect of Soul(s) in the DMFA Canon

[Grey Wolf]

Between Devin 2.0, Fae 'reincarnation', phoenixes, and hallows, my head is about to explode.
http://www.missmab.com/Cast/devin.php
http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_785.php
http://www.missmab.com/Demo/phoenixa.php
http://www.missmab.com/Demo/HG06.php
What does 'soul' mean in DMFA? Is it sentience, a glob of energy or 'life slot', or a divine aspect of the everliving (that is to say, the thing that still goes on when you die)? Do they even exist?
What what come to an empty vessel (Devin 2.0's possible case)? Are the Fae constantly reincarnated forever, or does a new soul take the former Fae's place? Do phoenixes every really die (as in, their soul moves on to the next place)? And what is the nature of a hallow's 'soulless-ness' (that is to say, when a hallow dies, does it merely fade into non-existance? Or [perhaps even more tragic] is there a soul that is totally helpless to connect to the physical body? Different occurrences in different cases?)?

.... Let the headaches begin!

[rabid_fox]

Clearly, Amber subscribes to the religious catechism of the Holy Catholic Church. This is evident from her writings and the concepts raised in her works.

[Grey Wolf]

... I so can not tell if you're being serious or not.
But if you are, could you explain the relevance to me?

[bill]

I have studied his posts extensively, and nothing rabid_fox posts is ever non-serious.

[rabid_fox]

That's a true-fact, I am always actual in the words that I allow to slather from my facehole. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Grey Wolf, if you're still confused afterwards I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

[Grey Wolf]

I'm afraid I don't have a copy. Would you please explain?

[Reese Tora]

hmm, interesting, but...

I think that different things are being refered to with the same one word.

Also, it's particualrly interesting that Albanion says taht the energy from an old fae's soul is used to create a brand new soul for a new fae.

Also, Albanion may be lying to a greater or lesser degree.

I suspect that there's a soul and the energy the soul is created from, and in normal circumstances the soul remains intact, but under some circumstances, the soul can be 'destroyed' (rent to it's component energy)

That would explain DP rather nicely, in fact; each resurection consumes or initializes a little of his soul energy, altering his personality.

One might suppose that an undead is powered by the original soul, but not animated by it, so a non-sentient undead's soul is slowly consumed in the same way as an energy source whereas a sentient undead is animated by the soul.

Of course, I just pulled most of that from my butt.

[Tapewolf]

I'm not in a position to vouch for whether it's based on Christianity or not.  However I can clarify some of your initial questions from what I've learned so far.  I am not Amber, so there may be errors, but most of it has basis in the strip or forum so I think it's fairly close.

What does 'soul' mean in DMFA? Is it sentience, a glob of energy or 'life slot', or a divine aspect of the everliving (that is to say, the thing that still goes on when you die)? Do they even exist?
What what come to an empty vessel (Devin 2.0's possible case)?

The DMFA soul appears to be tied in with sentience, at least where Beings and (most) Creatures are concerned.  Hollows don't have them and are AFAIK, not considered sentient.  Someone who loses their soul is dead, to all intents and purposes (maybe worse, depending on what happens to the soul afterwards).  The Undead (and heck, DP) were able to be brought back some time after their deaths, so while I don't know what (if any) their experience was between their resurrection and death, the cuppa-knight suggests that they had one.

Souls certainly exist per se because they can be 'eaten' by various Creatures and used to increase their powers and lifespans which apparently destroys the soul concerned.  'Cubi are confirmed to do this, Amber has mentioned than Angels and Demons can do this sort of thing too.

Souls can also be removed and placed in an alternate container e.g. Abel's crack about using someone's soul to power a desk-lamp, Aary's stuffing the knight's soul into an urn in the late 200-series [todo - find exact references].
The knight apparently retained some form of self-awareness, since Aary said he'd be mad at having been left in a pot for so long.

Are the Fae constantly reincarnated forever, or does a new soul take the former Fae's place? Do phoenixes every really die (as in, their soul moves on to the next place)?

Fae souls are different.  The word used in the 800 series comics does not denote a soul in the conventional sense, because they don't have those.  They have some equivalent which is incompatible with other Creatures and has different rules.  When a Fae dies, their soul is basically erased and reformatted as a new soul.

And what is the nature of a hallow's 'soulless-ness' (that is to say, when a hallow dies, does it merely fade into non-existance? Or [perhaps even more tragic] is there a soul that is totally helpless to connect to the physical body? Different occurrences in different cases?)?

AFAIK they are simply incapable of having a soul at all.

Judging from Devin 2.0, it looks a lot to me like souls will naturally form around a functioning mind, though that's just my own theory and could be completely off-base.


**EDIT**

I'm afraid I don't have a copy. Would you please explain?

This is probably it:
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/ccc_toc.htm

Also, Albanion may be lying to a greater or lesser degree.

I have a vague feeling that Fae can't lie, but I'd have to check.  I might be thinking of something else.

[Grey Wolf]

According to metaphysical beliefs, souls give off energy. That energy can be... 'eaten', but a soul in and of itself cannot be destroyed.
Then again, DMFA is fantasy, so Amber can have souls destroyed, if she chooses to.

Edit: Think of it this way. Souls are stored in the creature or vessel, and the energy is repetitively stripped away trapping the soul until the vessel is destroyed or dies.

[Tapewolf]

This may be of interest:
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,3394.msg146551.html#msg146551

[Grey Wolf]

*Eyetwitch* I have achieved headache level...

Okay, I think I have whittled things down in my mind a bit. Here are the questions I still have:
1. Is there any living creature/being/hybrid/animal in DMFA that does not have a soul (to the definition of 'ticket to the afterlife')?
2. Can said soul actually be destroyed (as in POOF! Nonexistence, oblivion, no afterlife, gone)?

Edit:
3. Are certain souls trapped in an eternal (meaning forever, not almost forever or really freakin' long time, forever) cycle of reincarnation?

[Tyranastrasz]

1: Hallows are the only things I know of without a soul. Fae don't quite have one either.
2: Yes.
3: Fae. maybe some others?

[Tapewolf]

1: Hallows are the only things I know of without a soul. Fae don't quite have one either.
2: Yes.
3: Fae. maybe some others?

Just a couple of additions/corrections:
Firstly, that's hollows.  As in 'nothing inside'.  Not 'hallows' - my gentle correction seems to have gone unheeded 

Fae don't have a soul in the conventional sense.  I'm not quite clear if Phoenix Oracles do either.  They do have the rebirth thing, the difference being that they aren't cleared down when they are reborn so they are effectively eternal.

[Turnsky]

*stuff*

Generally i'm under the impression that Fae are extra-dimensional(i.e: not native to furrae), so what quantifies a "soul" on furrae may not apply to the fae in the strictest sense, that said, fae could be "souls" merely made manifest.

However, it's hard to get into what a soul actually is without getting philosophical enough to make people's heads explode.

and i doubt that Amber would wanna spoil anything by explaining what exactly the Fae are, either. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Souls can also be removed and placed in an alternate container e.g. Abel's crack about using someone's soul to power a desk-lamp, Aary's stuffing the knight's soul into an urn in the late 200-series [todo - find exact references].

That would be 572, panel 3, and 234, panel 2.

[Amber Williams]

and i doubt that Amber would wanna spoil anything by explaining what exactly the Fae are, either. 

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

[Jairus]

and i doubt that Amber would wanna spoil anything by explaining what exactly the Fae are, either. 

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

Ah, so that is their weakness: their creator thinks that they are a poor plot device and doesn't like using them!

[Grey Wolf]

Hurray! 'Tis Amber!
So, do you plan to give us answers, or leave it up to our interpretation, or... there was a third thought... it's gone now...

[Amber Williams]

I'll be blunt.

You're timing is terrible. You are asking me to sit down and write out possibly long-winded serious stuff during a time when I am working on seventeen types of paperwork involving my immigration status which is all due at the end of the week.   I simply don't have time nor energy to devote any focus to this conversation outside of snarky comments.

[Grey Wolf]

Okay, sorry.

[Amber Williams]

That may have been more blunt than intended. Apologies.

Its not that your question isn't a good one. Or one I normally wouldn't consider answering. Its just...not a good brain think think time for me.  So any answer I did try to give would likely be wrong and need correcting later simply because I cannot focus long enough to properly work things out.  And in such a case, I would imagine misinformation is worse than simply no information.

[Grey Wolf]

I see, your immigration stuff must be a brain-drain (I wouldn't know what it's like, I've never even moved >>; ) Best of luck!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I see, your immigration stuff must be a brain-drain (I wouldn't know what it's like, I've never even moved >>; ) Best of luck!

Yeah. Lots of complicated paperwork and persuading some faceless bureaucrat that you actually exist, happen to be telling the truth, and might be following the rules, if anyone could be bothered to tell you what they are. This week. Accurately.

It's very stressful.

I've done it three times, in varying amounts, in order to get my two passports, and then the national insurance number for working in the UK. Fun, Not. Seriously, the NI number was worse than the passports, and I was living within an hours travel of the NI place at the time.

Bunch of jobsworths who couldn't get a real job, IMHO. Of course, you might find a competent one, but when you have to wait a month to get a 5 minute interview where they look at your paperwork and go "ok" - and let's not forget the 4 hours sitting in their waiting room _after_ the interview was scheduled - I have less than a stellar opinion of the whole situation.


But that's just me...

[Alondro]

*Charline only knows one thing about souls in DMFA*  They're tasty!  >:9

[Turnsky]

and i doubt that Amber would wanna spoil anything by explaining what exactly the Fae are, either. 

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

Furrae's proverbial Q Continium *nods*

[Howl]

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

I'd complain about that statement if I weren't so sure you're joking.

[Valynth]

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

Furrae's proverbial Q Continium *nods*

But less evil, more silly (if that is even possible), and severely distact-able.  from what I can tell anyway....  hey look, something shiney! *points in a direction and runs away*

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

I'd complain about that statement if I weren't so sure you're joking.

She's not.

[Howl]

The fae are a pain in the butt dues ex machina mary sue race that thankfully doesn't get involved in things as much as they could otherwise it would make for a pretty poor story.

I'd complain about that statement if I weren't so sure you're joking.

She's not.

I'll continue to think what I want.

[Naldru]

I'll continue to think what I want.

Are you trying to give us irresistible straight lines.  The number of possible retorts that pops into mind is literally astronomical.

However, I believe that I have seen what Amber is talking about referred to as the Superman syndrome in other references.  The idea is that Superman started off as very strong and able to leap for long distances but he could still be injured by an artillery shell and could probably be fatigued by hundred foot killer robots.  Over time he became more and more powerful:  nuclear weapons don't even tickle and he can knock planets out of their orbits by tap dancing.  To compensate, the foes he faced had to become more and more powerful.  Magic and Kryptonite were introduced so that there was something that he had to worry about.  Lately, they've been trying to make him less powerful so that the stories have some sanity.  There are only so many gods for him to fight, and the annual universe destroying crises are becoming a joke.