12/19/08 [Abel 2 #40] - Let's see what's outsi...

[Tapewolf]

And your wilder random speculation and common-to-uncommon, yet consistent referencing to your own work is what annoys the shut-up-and-just-enjoy-the-comic-crowd.

What, then, would you have people post?  Bland praise for the artwork?  Nothing at all?

[Turnsky]

does anyone know where cubi's third set of wings are located, any speculation?

Cubi are shapeshifters, so they're wherever they want them to be.

Also, they're sort of on the hips >_>;
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/C_October.jpg

"buttwings!" -Billy 

And may even fuel Amber's story ideas.

Speculation has definitely fuelled a lot of my story ideas, which is one of the reasons I get a bit irritable with the shut-up-and-just-enjoy-the-comic crowd 

doesn't mine, speculation, if anything, serves to make me wonder "now how can i mess with their heads now?  "

[Janus Whitefurr]

And your wilder random speculation and common-to-uncommon, yet consistent referencing to your own work is what annoys the shut-up-and-just-enjoy-the-comic-crowd.

What, then, would you have people post?  Bland praise for the artwork?  Nothing at all?

There is nothing wrong with discussing interesting aspects of the artwork or discussing the plot. What I'd like is some
sane, sensical speculation that doesn't involve wild mass guessing and rampant theorising about the tiniest of plot points. Claiming that (x) could be Edward with zero evidence comes to mind. There is enjoyment, and there is nitpicking the details. Or relating it to your own fanfiction...

But I am a minority in this regard. C'est la vie. 

[Tapewolf]

There is nothing wrong with discussing interesting aspects of the artwork or discussing the plot. What I'd like is some sane, sensical speculation that doesn't involve wild mass guessing and rampant theorising about the tiniest of plot points.

I think we just have different thresholds for what is sane.  FWIW, that particular theory has been hived off to the wiki to avoid cluttering up the forum.  (And to avoid annoying you, truth be told)

Or relating it to your own fanfiction...

That is something which I'm trying to cut down on.  To be fair, I'm hardly the only one who does this 
While I try to avoid directly referencing my stuff these days (which would actually graze rule 4C, to be honest) I don't see any harm in discussing the techniques I use to do my writing.  What I meant in this particular instance was "I use this technique to help inspire me, Amber might too."

But I am a minority in this regard. C'est la vie. 

I doubt we'll ever fully agree, but if we can agree to disagree that's fine 

[Magic]

Speaking of rabid speculation, didn't Amber already, personally, tear a thread apart because someone thought it particularly.. wise to say 'I totally called it' because said person spouted one such random theory?

I personally don't think Janus nor anyone in that 'shut up and enjoy the comic' crowd is annoyed at the speculation in particular; But 'trying to make yourself look intelligent'.

The latter is the true annoyance, really. Speculation is speculation, simply harmless thought put into words. There is no scale for it's or any other sanity because sanity is relative; dictated by society's whims. But the way you go about putting it in every other comic and trying to act as an authority figure, I guess, is what gets to the crowd.

[Tapewolf]

Speaking of rabid speculation, didn't Amber already, personally, tear a thread apart because someone thought it particularly.. wise to say 'I totally called it' because said person spouted one such random theory?

I think we're all wise to that one.

I personally don't think Janus nor anyone in that 'shut up and enjoy the comic' crowd is annoyed at the speculation in particular; But 'trying to make yourself look intelligent'.

I hate to put it like this, but... that's wild speculation.  Certainly it's not my motivation... I start to speculate when I get sufficiently wrapped up in the plot.

But the way you go about putting it in every other comic and trying to act as an authority figure, I guess, is what gets to the crowd.

Well, I'm sorry if it comes across that way.  It's not the idea at all, and heck, I'll tend to point out that I'm just making educated guesses if someone does start to treat me as an authority (which has happened).  I mean seriously... if people start to take what I say as gospel, it stops them thinking for themselves, and that - independent thought - is what I like to see.
When it comes down to it, what annoys me most about the 'stop speculating' calls is the underlying message of "Stop thinking" and that's something I can never endorse.

[Magic]

Well executed rebuttals but, don't take this next one as a personal attack, it really begs the question; What is your motivation, if not to make yourself feel good nor to ratify yourself?

I'm sorry I have to press the matter, however I want to resolve this conflict once and for all and the only way we're ever making progress beyond simple skirmishes of posts sparsely distributed across several threads is to see where you and everyone stands on the matter and put forth a final statement.

Which, if I may add, would be a more diplomatic solution as opposed to this leading all the way up to moderation shutting this and every other argument like this down. Even though I won't challenge that decision if it comes to it.

You may speak freely.

--

Also, in light (no pun intended) of not having posted for a while, just to throw this in; I can't help but notice that the whole art direction for part 2 of Abel's Story seems to revolve on a play with shadow and light straight from the intro screen, to 'The Good Doctor''s voice, Destania's manipulations, up until now. Might be irrelevant, but it seems noteworthy enough to me.

[Gareeku]

When it comes down to it, what annoys me most about the 'stop speculating' calls is the underlying message of "Stop thinking" and that's something I can never endorse.

I highly doubt that is the underlying message, I think that's more of a case of words being twisted. What people from the "shut-up-and-enjoy-the-crowd" mean is that people are analysing every. Single. Little. Detail. Even those which hardly bear any importance to the story, to the point where one wonders if someone is going to point at the colour of a character's shirt and say "OMG that's the same colour as Edward's! It must be him!" or something equally as ridiculous.

In other news, I keep imagining a church choir singing "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" at how the light is shining from the window where Fa'Lina is standing. X3

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Also, in light (no pun intended) of not having posted for a while, just to throw this in; I can't help but notice that the whole art direction for part 2 of Abel's Story seems to revolve on a play with shadow and light straight from the intro screen, to 'The Good Doctor''s voice, Destania's manipulations, up until now. Might be irrelevant, but it seems noteworthy enough to me.[/i]

Interesting. I think that one had slipped me by; I'd noticed the various light shows (as it were) at the time, but the overall sequence of them had escaped me.

Perhaps I need to re-read the archive again. ;-]

[Turnsky]

I highly doubt that is the underlying message, I think that's more of a case of words being twisted. What people from the "shut-up-and-enjoy-the-crowd" mean is that people are analysing every. Single. Little. Detail. Even those which hardly bear any importance to the story, to the point where one wonders if someone is going to point at the colour of a character's shirt and say "OMG that's the same colour as Edward's! It must be him!" or something equally as ridiculous.

but you'll always have the proverbial 'conspiracy theorists' for a comic, but that's also an opportunity for the writers and artists alike to leave little things like that to mislead, and potentially lead the entire fanbase by the nose so a potential plot twist can -really- come out of left field, slug 'em in the face, and leave them absolutely gobsmacked, cursing your very name. 

[Tapewolf]

Well, I was hoping to just let this die, because I really don't want to clutter the thread with it.  However you have asked, I shall answer, and hopefully we can get on.

Well executed rebuttals but, don't take this next one as a personal attack, it really begs the question; What is your motivation, if not to make yourself feel good nor to ratify yourself?

Firstly, if I leap on a particular idea, it's because I like the feel of it, or I've seen an implication that I find pleasing.
The other motivation is simply that I enjoy the detective-work involved.  Simply put, I find it an enjoyable mental exercise.  I can't speak for anyone else, of course.

I'm sorry I have to press the matter, however I want to resolve this conflict once and for all and the only way we're ever making progress beyond simple skirmishes of posts sparsely distributed across several threads is to see where you and everyone stands on the matter and put forth a final statement.

I think it boils down to three things:
1. I speculate because I enjoy what it involves, as I've said above.

2. As a side-effect it often gives me ideas for my own writings and if this works for me, it's a fairly safe bet that it can inspire others, which is something I encourage.

3. I like to see other people think about the comic in-depth rather than just passively enjoying it.  Not just for the sake of DMFA, but because this kind of analysis is a useful skill.  (Often theories which seem harebrained have turned out to be the reason a piece of software doesn't work, for example.)

As a separate issue, I'll admit that I can come across as abrasive and/or arrogant.  That's a character flaw and it's something I'd like to fix.  I'll try harder if it will help keep the peace.

Ultimately, I don't think this dispute is something that can be solved permanently, as it were - even if the two sides come to an agreement now, the whole thing will start over when some bright-eyed newbie joins the forum and says "Doesn't Aniz look a lot like Edward?" or something.  I think the best thing is for both sides to be a bit more restrained.  Sound sensible?

but you'll always have the proverbial 'conspiracy theorists' for a comic, but that's also an opportunity for the writers and artists alike to leave little things like that to mislead, and potentially lead the entire fanbase by the nose so a potential plot twist can -really- come out of left field, slug 'em in the face, and leave them absolutely gobsmacked, cursing your very name. 

I know what you mean.  I've done a little bit of that myself.

Also, in light (no pun intended) of not having posted for a while, just to throw this in; I can't help but notice that the whole art direction for part 2 of Abel's Story seems to revolve on a play with shadow and light straight from the intro screen, to 'The Good Doctor''s voice, Destania's manipulations, up until now. Might be irrelevant, but it seems noteworthy enough to me.[/i]

You're right.  Now I think about it, there's been a lot more use of lighting.  On the other hand, part 2 is based mostly on interiors... Part 1 had a lot more exterior/day-lit scenes.  Actually I saw the cover of part 2 as being a counterpoint to the main cover.  It's quite likely that Amber's skill in lighting has improved over the course of the series.

[Magic]

Well, I was hoping to just let this die

Oh, please don't. Through better understanding, we can reach a more sensible settlement for both sides, can we not? Besides, this is as much a mental exercise as the ones you put forth.

Ultimately, I don't think this dispute is something that can be solved permanently, as it were

As above, this is better than leaving unanswered grievances, which might become worse when said bright eyed newbie comes. We could at least come to the conclusion that both sides may concede to. After all, damage control with existing members of the forum is reasonable, is it not?

Overall, I see that your reasons are quite noble, but alas it is quite difficult to convey over text in a post in a forum. Nor are they as easy to believe as you yourself might find it. Perhaps we misunderstand you, but I see that you were also so kind as to admit fault as well. That is quite honorable of you. Everyone can agree to disagree, but at least now I believe both sides can now understand each other.

Indeed, I do agree that both sides should find restraint in themselves, but I feel that is insufficient. For the sake of goodwill; might I suggest we should try to add a little more empathy into how we speak? And by we, I mean everyone, of course. I will try to convince Gareeku and Janus whenever I see them next, or you could do so yourself via private message, if you want to. That might be best.

That would be everything I want to know, and hear from you. Thank you for your time and patience. Please do not mind me, as I only ever want to act as an even-handed observer.

[superluser]

3. I like to see other people think about the comic in-depth rather than just passively enjoying it.  Not just for the sake of DMFA, but because this kind of analysis is a useful skill.  (Often theories which seem harebrained have turned out to be the reason a piece of software doesn't work, for example.)

I'd just like to point out that I've read a few books where this level of scrutiny would appear amateurish--because there's not enough scrutiny.

For example, in The Crying of Lot 49, there's an offhand reference to Pierce Inverarity affecting a number of voices such as Lamont Cranston's over the telephone.  This is, of course, a joke, since The Shadow's voice was meant to sound like it was coming over a telephone, and the multiple actors who played The Shadow sounded nothing like each other, thus making such an impersonation impossible.  Furthermore, the fact that Pierce is identified as a shadow is fitting, since he is the unseen but driving force for the entire novel, and also dead.  The fact that he's speaking over the telephone and masking his voice leads back to the novel's central themes of communication and entropy.

That entire analysis comes from two words.  And that's just Pynchon.  If you start reading criticism of Joyce or Eliot, you can find people writing Master's theses about Visual Devices in the "Circe" Episode of James Joyce's Ulysses (for example)

[AmigaDragon]

does anyone know where cubi's third set of wings are located, any speculation?

Cubi are shapeshifters, so they're wherever they want them to be.

Also, they're sort of on the hips >_>;
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/C_October.jpg

"buttwings!" -Billy 

"Do these pants make my buttwings look fat?"

[Attic Rat]

does anyone know where cubi's third set of wings are located, any speculation?

Cubi are shapeshifters, so they're wherever they want them to be.

Also, they're sort of on the hips >_>;
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/C_October.jpg

"buttwings!" -Billy 

"Do these pants make my buttwings look fat?"

When the buttwings flutter, don't sniff and mutter.
If you know which side of thy bread hath butter.

[Turnsky]

does anyone know where cubi's third set of wings are located, any speculation?

Cubi are shapeshifters, so they're wherever they want them to be.

Also, they're sort of on the hips >_>;
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/C_October.jpg

"buttwings!" -Billy 

"Do these pants make my buttwings look fat?"

*grabs cuban cigar and dons groucho marx costume*
"i've heard of flying by the seat of your pants before, but this is ridiculous!"
*waggles eyebrows*
</groucho>

[Sunblink]

Oh, please don't. Through better understanding, we can reach a more sensible settlement for both sides, can we not? Besides, this is as much a mental exercise as the ones you put forth.

No, certainly not! Gentlemen, there are far more flexible ways for reasonable people such as yourselves to reach an agreement.

And that way is shonen-ai.

Jakob and Ink. Now. Go.




I can never be counted on to take anything seriously.

[Magic]

You tempt me, good madam.

[Ren Gaulen]

In fact, you tempt me too.

[Colgatecrusader]

does anyone know where cubi's third set of wings are located, any speculation?

Cubi are shapeshifters, so they're wherever they want them to be.

Also, they're sort of on the hips >_>;
http://www.missmab.com/graphics/C_October.jpg

ohhh... those hips. yeah.

[Janus Whitefurr]

Oh. Oh Keaton...

What hast thou wrought

[Colgatecrusader]

a conflict that could threaten to destroy the stability of the forum and universe as a whole? Hey Ink is there a reason you type in italics? or does it just look cool?

[Amber Williams]

No, certainly not! Gentlemen, there are far more flexible ways for reasonable people such as yourselves to reach an agreement.

And that way is shonen-ai.

Jakob and Ink. Now. Go.

You had me at flexible.

Oh wait...this is a thread about Abel's Story isnt it. I guess I should post something relavent. Umm...er...

Fa'Lina is a character who is very odd in that she has multiple outfits and hairstyles and will actually change her clothes daily. Its completly crazy. I apologize for all the inconveniences.

[Reese Tora]

What I'd like is some sane, sensical speculation that doesn't involve wild mass guessing and rampant theorising about the tiniest of plot points.

hmm... you forgot to make it a link

Anyway, everyone loves planting epileptic trees.

[Colgatecrusader]

I thought that there was just a style for the abel story and a style for the regular comic... thanks for clearing that up.

[Alondro]

I get the feeling Fa'Lina is crying.

On the inside, at least.

This made me think of one of the "Ultimate Naruto Fanflash" videos.   

*sasuke*Cryyyyying iiiiiin my skiiiiiin!

These wouuuuunds they will nooooot heaaaaal!
*Gara bitch slaps him*  Shut up!  Will you shut up! 

XD

[Turnsky]

Fa'Lina is a character who is very odd in that she has multiple outfits and hairstyles and will actually change her clothes daily. Its completly crazy. I apologize for all the inconveniences.

makes perfect sense to me, actually. 

[superluser]

Fa'Lina is a character who is very odd in that she has multiple outfits and hairstyles and will actually change her clothes daily. Its completly crazy. I apologize for all the inconveniences.

Wow.  Received wisdom!  I'm printing this out four times so that I can use my standard method here.  One I shall frame and mount on the wall so that I can look at it every day.  One I eat so that it will be with me always.  One I give to the tattoo artist so he can write this into my flesh so that I see it when I do my daily tattoo admiration hour, and one I shall place under my sheets.  I love that.

This is truly the bestest revelation ever.

[Corgatha Taldorthar]

I'm wondering, if she's that powerful, would she be able to snap her fingers and magically change her clothes/hair. It would make the process much easier.

[AmigaDragon]

Fa'Lina is a character who is very odd in that she has multiple outfits and hairstyles and will actually change her clothes daily. Its completly crazy. I apologize for all the inconveniences.

A while back, I noticed that one of my aunts would change outfits 3-4 times in a day. Don't know if she still does or not.