network question

[Shadrok]

For the past few months I've been trying to figure out how to hook up a LAN between my laptop and my desktop, and failing. So I wonder has anyone here ever created a LAN.

I've heard that you can hook two computers up with just an crossover Ethernet cable but at the moment I've yet to get it to work.

Any advice?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

.... get a crossover cable, and set the IP addresses on both machines appropriately.

What, exactly, were you hoping to do with them, once connected?


(in case it wasn't obvious, at last count I'd set up something on the order of 40-50 networks, depending on how you count them, on various hardware from 10baseT through all-up switched cat6e...)

[Shadrok]

.... get a crossover cable,

ok done.

and set the IP addresses on both machines appropriately.

Ok how do I go about doing that.

What, exactly, were you hoping to do with them, once connected?

For the most part just play a game with a friend when their over. Something like Unreal Tournament or something like that.

Also thought it would be nice to be nice to be able to transfer files from my laptop to my desktop (and vise versa) without having to use a 2GB memory card to do the job.

In case it matters both my laptop and desktop have XP pro Service pack 2 on them.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Well, that helps - the XP pro thing. Not that it matters much compared to anything else, but knowing which OS you're talking about helps us help you.

You'd need to go into Network Connections - it'll be somewhere in your control panel, but if you have the kindergarten interface off, it should be easy to find.

In there, there is a "New Connection Wizard" which will probably do what you want, or you can do it by hand, by looking at the properties of the Local Area Connection, then editing the properties of Internet Protocol. The first page of that is about all you need.

What you need to do is assign two IP addresses to the two machines, on the same subnet. That means you need to use something ineither 192.168.x.y/255.255.0.0, where x is the same on both, and y is different, or something in 10.x.x.x/255.0.0.0, or 172.16-31.x.y/255.255.0.0.

Personally, I usually use 192.168.0.1 for one, and 192.168.0.2 for the other, with a netmask of 255.255.255.0 - as long as all the parts are below 255, and you have the netmask set so the two machines are in the same area, though, you can use whatever you like. It's not like they can see anyone else on the internet anyway, but it's generally better to use ranges that won't mess up anyone else's network if they get out by accident.


Once you've set them both up, and connected them, you should be able to open a command prompt on both of them and ping the other IP address - so on the machine you've given 192.168.0.1, in our example, you should be able to run "ping 192.168.0.2" and get a "response returned" with actual responses, rather than timed out.



... I suspect I could have explained this somewhat better. :-/ Let me know if you want me to go into more detail about any of this, or if you're getting on ok.

[Shadrok]

Ok, I clicked "create a new connection" and got this image

which lead to this image

followed by this image

then I chose Com 1 image

then I did the IP image image

then I did the same on my laptop just chose guest instead of host and after having it try and dial a connection it then gave me a 777 error saying
"The connection attempt failed because the modem for the connecting device) on the remote  computer is out of order."

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... aaand you went wrong about step 1, or so.

You wanted option 3 - home or small office connection.

You're using cat5 and ethernet, not serial or parallel or modem. And the whole step 2 thing? That's all using the wrong hardware...

[Reese Tora]

fortunately, you're on windows XP, so you can ignore all of that about manual configuration.  WIndows XP has autoconfiguration for network connections that automatically assigns a 192.168.x.x IP address to any network port that had DHCP configured (which is default for any newly installed network port)

open a command promp on each computer (run 'CMD' from the run command)

in each, type ipconfig, you'll get two IP addresses, one on each computer, both in 192.168.0.x

have one computer ping the other, this should have 100% success
(type 'ping [IP address]' in the command prompt where the IP address is the one that belongs to the other computer)

when you set up your UT server, the IP address of that computer will be the one you enter in the other computer to connect.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... even if there's no DHCP server?

That's kind of... broken, I think. Or at least badly bent.

[gh0st]

couldn't you just get a cheap router? they usually come with one ethernet cable.

[Darkmoon]

couldn't you just get a cheap router? they usually come with one ethernet cable.

That was my exact question.

[Reese Tora]

ESPECIALLY if there's no DHCP server.  The point is to make conenctivity easier in a case where a network administrator would otherwise have to manually configure every computer. (and where the majority of the target customer group has little or no technical knowledge)

Basically, windows checks the port for conenctivity, then sends out a DHCP request, then, if that times out, it performs automatic private IP addressing(APIPA).  THis way, anyone can take a computer with windows on it, hook it up to a network, and expect to have connectivity right away.

I was wrong, by the way, APIPA assigns a class B address in the 169.254.x.x range.

Since windows sends out a request to use an IP address when one is assigned or auto configured, this means that every computer on a network should have a unique address within the same private subnet, if there's no active DHCP server available.

IMNSHO, this is one feature that MS got right.

[Shadrok]

I discovered one reason I was having issues with connecting earlier, the network driver on my desktop needed reinstalling. So with that (and after taking option three on the wizard) I have the network telling me it's connected and it even lets me play the game over it, but it's not letting me transfer files.

Also when I ping either one it times out and says 4 sent, 4 lost, and yet the other computer says 4 received.

couldn't you just get a cheap router? they usually come with one ethernet cable.

That was my exact question.

I'm wanting to set it up with just the cable so that I don't have space taken up by a router and I've heard that you can hook two computers up with just a crossover Ethernet cable. So I thought that would be the less space consuming option. Since I'll only be using it when my friend is over (for games) or to transfer files from one computer to the other, and when it's not in use have the cable rolled up beside my desktop's tower.

At  the moment the way I've been transferring files from one to the other is either with a 2GB camera memory card or by using a portable hard drive. It just gets annoying sometimes having to hook the hard drive to one computer then unhook it and hook it into the other (not to mention having to deal with the hard drive's power cord as well). I figure with the LAN I can leave the cable hooked up to my desktop just rolled up and when I need it just hook it into my laptop and do the job the hard drive did faster and with less space taken up.

[Reese Tora]

OK, to set up file sharing in windows...

pick or create a folder on your computer to share files with (prefereably the the computer that will never leave your home network, and will never be exposed to others) right click on that and choose 'sharing and security'

the dialogue that opens should be fairly straight forward, set a name for the folder, either allow anonymous access (not recomended) or chose a user on that computer to have access.

Once you have the share created, on the other computer, open the run prompt and type in "\\[first computer's IP address]\[name of share]\"
(for instance: "\\10.0.0.1\sharedfolder\")

depending on how you set up the share, it'll either open the folder or ask for a username and password (and then open the folder)

Now, if you have simple file sharing turned off (it's on by default) then there's a few more steps that you'll need to follow after creating the share. namely, you'll see a security tab, which you'll need to open, and you'll need to add the same user as you set to access the share to the security settings and grant it the same permissions

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I was wrong, by the way, APIPA assigns a class B address in the 169.254.x.x range.
IMNSHO, this is one feature that MS got right.

Oh, APIPA. That's a different matter - especially since that range is specified in RFC 3330 as being put aside for this sort of thing, sort of.

[Shadrok]

OK, to set up file sharing in windows...

pick or create a folder on your computer to share files with (prefereably the the computer that will never leave your home network, and will never be exposed to others) right click on that and choose 'sharing and security'

the dialogue that opens should be fairly straight forward, set a name for the folder, either allow anonymous access (not recomended) or chose a user on that computer to have access.

Once you have the share created, on the other computer, open the run prompt and type in "\\[first computer's IP address]\[name of share]\"
(for instance: "\\10.0.0.1\sharedfolder\")

depending on how you set up the share, it'll either open the folder or ask for a username and password (and then open the folder)

Now, if you have simple file sharing turned off (it's on by default) then there's a few more steps that you'll need to follow after creating the share. namely, you'll see a security tab, which you'll need to open, and you'll need to add the same user as you set to access the share to the security settings and grant it the same permissions

Ok I went to "My computer" and clicked on the folder "Shared Documents" and brought up its properties. Selected "Share this folder on the network" image

Then went into command prompt, typed in the IP \ Folder name and ended up with the message "The network path was not found."

Also it still refuses to ping the other computer, but some how there is a connection since I was able to network through Open canvas. So something has to be skewed in the settings somewhere.

[Reese Tora]

did you preface that with two slashes? (that's important)

an alternate method is to open up the network places folder(start>my network places)

then open "entire network" "microsoft windows network"
(at this point it'll take a couple minutes to search the network for other windows computers)
double click on the workgroup in which the other computer resides (default workgroup is "workgroup")
it will take a few more minutes to open this
The other computer's name should appear in the folder, double click on that and it should give you a list of printers and faxes, scheduled tasks, and any shares that exist on that computer.  when you try to open anything, it should ask for a user anme and password

(BTW, if the username and password is the same on both computers, it will authenticate automatically, without asking)

[Shadrok]

did you preface that with two slashes? (that's important)

Yes I did.

an alternate method is to open up the network places folder(start>my network places)

then open "entire network" "microsoft windows network"
(at this point it'll take a couple minutes to search the network for other windows computers)
double click on the workgroup in which the other computer resides (default workgroup is "workgroup")
it will take a few more minutes to open this
The other computer's name should appear in the folder, double click on that and it should give you a list of printers and faxes, scheduled tasks, and any shares that exist on that computer.  when you try to open anything, it should ask for a user anme and password

(BTW, if the username and password is the same on both computers, it will authenticate automatically, without asking)

I tried it and it still didn't show the network.

Though I have figured a way to share the files now. I had to install in the properties of the LAN a client on the file sharing option in the general tab. image



My only complaint about the setup is the fact that I have to log on to both computers at start up, but that's probably for the best. If anything it gave me an excuse to finally enroll my finger prints on my laptop and adds some protection to my desktop (not that anyone but me uses it at home, but still you never know).

Thanks llearch and Reese for your help.

[Reese Tora]

hmm... you know, I am surprised at that; the file and printer sharing is normally installed by default.  I guess your AV suite disabled it or someone removed it at some point (it can be a security vulnerability under some circumstances...) or you just got a wierd installation of windows.

that sharing module you isntalled is required for the methods that I suggested, and I'm sorry taht I just assumed that it would be in place. (I might have gotten around to suggesting checking it eventually, but I should have thought of it sooner)

BTW, the failure of pings can be attributed to a good AV suite as well(or, more specifically, a good firewall)