Well. This hasn't happened before...

[Cvstos]

It's coming time to finally build a new PC.  I've got all the parts I want listed out, and it'll be a screaming machine.  Just for fun, I decided to head to dell.com and see how badly I blew them away on price.  Normally, at the high end whenever I build a computer I pull it off at upwards of $500 less than the pre-fab makers.

But Dell offered up something damn compelling - a very similar system (XPS420) that actually beat my specs at about $250 more (total around $1500).  (It's ship date was far later than what I'd get from NewEgg, though.)  Now, you can say that I still beat their price, but their system had a Blu-ray drive and a 22-inch monitor included.  That's nearly $500 worth of goods, meaning that they are beating me.

(Note that the processors are different buy very close.  The Q6600 isn't as fast as the E8400 at most things today, but in the future this can easily change.  The Q is a quad-core while the E is a dual-core, meaning that on anything that's optimized for more than 2 cores the Quad will blow away the Dual.  In addition, the performance difference between the two on things that aren't optimized for more than 2 cores isn't that huge.)

I went back and looked at my machine to see where I was bleeding money.  I knew that this just can't be right. 

Turns out that I'm spending more than I have to on the case and arguably the PSU. I've always wanted this case, though.  The PSU I'm on edge about.  I've seen cheaper models with decent reviews, but I've always been weary of cheap power supplies.  Yes, it says 550W, but what is it realistically?

Still, this is... seriously distressing.  I'm not used to being matched in this area. And wait, it gets better.

I still work at GameStop, low hours aside.  I don't know if it's still there but a while back there was a corporate program we had that allowed us a discount on all Dell stuff.  Which means that there's a chance this thing would beat even the price I have for my custom rig which lacks some of the features this Dell has.

It's completely and utterly absurd that Dell is kicking my butt this badly.  It's [censored] ridiculous.  The case and PSU alone aren't enough to overcome the Blu-ray drive ($200) and monitor ($265).  This has never, ever happened before and I'm... *gulp* seriously considering buying the Dell.  If need be I can deal with this old computer for a couple more weeks.  I honestly cannot [censored] believe those [censored] words came out of my [censored] mouth. ME?  Buy a DELL?  What's this world coming to?

God, a Dell next to my Mac laptop.  I leave for a few hours to go to class and I'll come back to find that they're in a knife fight.

I'm actually at a complete loss of what to do here.  Fellow geeks - what's your advice?

-EDIT-

I should also point out something else.  On every system I build I design in an upgrade path, ways I can improve the machine later down the road.  On the system I was going to build, all the major parts (CPU, RAM, GPU) were so high-end there was no clear upgrade path.  (That's what I wanted to see.)  So, the upgrades centered around things other than those.  What were they?  Drumroll, please!

A new larger HDCP monitor and a Blu-ray drive.  Yep, the exact same things the Dell has.  After that there's really nothing to [censored] do to the machine, it's going to be as high-end as I can reasonably make it and it would at least be 2 years before I would really have to seriously ponder an upgrade to anything.  And even then these parts should allow a CPU and GPU upgrade without much sweat.  Then it would be good for another two years or so, and then it's just time for a new computer altogether, as per my normal cycle.

[RobbieThe1st]

Well, posting the Dell specs/link to them here, and the link to the Newegg wish-list would be quite handy.

Personally, I don't really know - I mean, I am currently using an old, though still pretty good, Intel P4 3.2ghz single core processor. I do have 2 gb of ram though. Video card wise, a Nvidia FX5950 Ultra. I still haven't really run up against its limits enough to need more, especially as I don't really run much in the way of games(Which is odd in itself, being a teenager).

Anyway, I will take a look if you post the specs and see what I can come up with.

PSU wise, get one of several hundred watts more than what you figure the maximum your comp will take. If you don't mind spending $100 or so for a PSU, go with a "80+" certified model - you want good efficiency. Also, Google around - You want to make sure that the quality of the power coming out of it is extremely smooth and not too low or high.

I recently got a 650W OCZ SilentXStream, and it has worked perfectly. I admit that I probably didn't need the extra who-knows-how many watts, but when my 420W Antec started to get a bit shaky, I researched the OCZ, and for what I got, it was pretty cheap.

I hope that helps.


-RobbieThe1st

[Cvstos]

Specs for NewEgg:

Cooler Master Stacker 830 case
Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 RAM
EVGA 132-CK-NF78-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
EVGA GeForce 8800GT Superclocked 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 Video Card
ENERMAX Liberty ELT500AWT ATX12V 500W Power Supply
Seagate ST3400320AS 400GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
ASUS DVD Burner
No monitor
* X-fi sound card

Price: About $1300

Specs for Dell†:

PROCESSOR   Intel® Core™2 Q6600 Quad-Core (8MB L2 cache,2.4GHz,1066FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM   Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium with Digital Cable Support   
MEMORY   3GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs   
HARD DRIVE   500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache   
OPTICAL DRIVE   Blu-ray Disc Combo (DVD+/-RW + BD-ROM)   
MONITORS   22 inch UltraSharp™ 2208WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD   512MB Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT   
SOUND CARD   *Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio

Price: $1509, not counting anything my GameStop discount *might* get me.

* Special Note: The X-fi card is from the old system and not included in the price rundown.  This also means that the Dell would get this automatically, which is why I didn't select it on the website, it's just getting carried over from the old system.

† Special Note: The Dell is using an X38 motherboard, and although I like the 780i better I can't really fault the X38 for anything, either.

[Tapewolf]

Bear in mind that as a rule you don't usually get recovery disks with pre-built systems like the Dell.  If you get anything it's usually a disk set to re-image the system to its original factory state.  Is that likely to pose a problem?

Also, will the X-fi work with Vista at all?  Are there any other peripherals you want or need that Vista is going to turn its little nose up at?  If you got the DIY system instead, I note you haven't priced an OS into it.  If you're using a normal copy of XP on the existing system you may have problems installing it, assuming the onboard systems are supported by it anyway.

Obviously if the plan is to nuke it and stick Ubuntu on instead, it doesn't matter so much, but I'm assuming that's not the plan...

[Cvstos]

I actually beta tested Vista and went back to XP since the old computer couldn't handle it that well.  It's an old 2Ghz single-core with an AGP graphics card.  Yes, you read that right.  With either option I pick I'll be skipping PCI-Express altogether and going right to PCI-Express 2.0.

X-fi: Drivers available on Creative Labs' website.
Canon MP610 printer: Certified for Vista (Not surprising, this thing is only 3 months old).
nVIDIA Dual TV Tuner: Drivers available. http://www.nvidia.com/object/tvtuner_drivers.html
Logitech keyboard and mouse: Drivers available, and I'd expect them to work out of the box anyway since they work with the Xbox 360.
Canon A95 camera: If this doesn't work I'd be very surprised.
USB External HDD: Again, basic stuff that shouldn't have a problem.

Operating Systems: Doesn't matter, I go to a state school.  I already have Vista and XP disks that were all of $10 each.  (And my laptop runs Mac OS 10.4.11.  I'll get Leopard probably later this year.)  For the same reason I dropped the productivity options from the build.  Didn't save me anything, but it'll be a cleaner install later.  My school sold me the crazy-huge MS Office package for, again, $10.  I also an get free anti-virus software but McAfee is terrible.  I use Nod32, and I've already got a subscription to that.  It is Vista-ready.

[Tapewolf]

And my laptop runs Mac OS 10.4.11.  I'll get Leopard probably later this year.

I'm considering it, but it does break Photoshop 7.  Upgrading both will cost  around $500, unless I get Elements instead.  It may well be enough for what I use it for.

[Omega]

God, a Dell next to my Mac laptop. I leave for a few hours to go to class and I'll come back to find that they're in a knife fight.

If they act like kids, treat them like kids.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... Are you sure you're responding to the right thread, Omega?

[Tezkat]

Personally, I like building my own systems, to the point that I'm willing to pay a small premium to have everything just so. Dell systems are usually reliable, but they tend to install the smallest possible cases and power supplies without leaving you much room for fiddling. With your custom system, you're basically paying extra for things that would be helpful for adding extra toys or OCing (larger case and PSU, fast RAM with Micron ICs).

Another thing to consider, however, since you apparently like watching TV on your PC, is that digital cable tuners will only be supported on a name brand system like Dell's thanks to the way Microsoft and friends have been handling HDCP licensing. Cable companies are already phasing out analog service. My local provider doesn't currently support CableCARD or third party hardware, but if yours does (and most cable providers in the US do), that could be a significant argument in favour of the Dell.

Plus I rather like some of the Dell monitors. I have a 2407WFP that's really excellent.

[Omega]

... Are you sure you're responding to the right thread, Omega?

*Reads the first post.*

seems like not. I'll fix that.

...


There.
Won't happen again, sir!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Ah, now it makes so much more sense. And is amusing, too. Thankyou, good sir. ;-]

[Cvstos]

And my laptop runs Mac OS 10.4.11.  I'll get Leopard probably later this year.

I'm considering it, but it does break Photoshop 7.  Upgrading both will cost  around $500, unless I get Elements instead.  It may well be enough for what I use it for.

I have no such concerns for Photoshop.  I have the visual artistic ability of a brick.  I can write, but I can't draw worth anything.

Personally, I like building my own systems, to the point that I'm willing to pay a small premium to have everything just so. Dell systems are usually reliable, but they tend to install the smallest possible cases and power supplies without leaving you much room for fiddling. With your custom system, you're basically paying extra for things that would be helpful for adding extra toys or OCing (larger case and PSU, fast RAM with Micron ICs).

I don't normally overclock, in fact I could get some more milage out of my current PC if I did but even it's rather large mid-tower is crowded right now.  I prefer to keep things in a cycle.  Build my own reasonably high-end machine with maybe one upgrade a couple year later, and then a couple years after that just get a new machine.

Another thing to consider, however, since you apparently like watching TV on your PC, is that digital cable tuners will only be supported on a name brand system like Dell's thanks to the way Microsoft and friends have been handling HDCP licensing. Cable companies are already phasing out analog service. My local provider doesn't currently support CableCARD or third party hardware, but if yours does (and most cable providers in the US do), that could be a significant argument in favour of the Dell.

Plus I rather like some of the Dell monitors. I have a 2407WFP that's really excellent.

I've head very good things about Dell monitors. 

As far as TV, I should be good for a little while longer.  I'm in a dorm and I doubt that they're going to upgrade beyond basic cable anytime soon when they can't even fix the channels we have (we've got 2 USA channels and one is supposed to be G4TV).  So I'm good there for a couple years.  If I move and get desperate for a DVR I'll see about a TiVO or something.  But for now this should be fine.

[Tapewolf]

I have no such concerns for Photoshop.  I have the visual artistic ability of a brick.  I can write, but I can't draw worth anything.

I can't draw as such but I can edit pretty well, and I do need to be able to import complex PSD files from other people, the kind which make GIMP go weird and Krita go into an infinite loop - hence my reluctance to upgrade at this point

But I digress.  If you get Leopard before me (most likely) I'd be curious to know how the upgrade goes.

[Cvstos]

OK everyone!  Thank you for your help!

I decided to jump at the Dell.  I couldn't pass up the opportunity to fill my upgrade path for a much lower price than I would have had otherwise.  Now to find a job that gives me real hours so saving up doesn't take so long!