China filling in for the USSR again...

[Alondro]

Well well, another shining example of aetheist socialism at its best:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071011/ts_nm/china_usa_dalailama_dc

Mmm-hmm.  Yes Chinese political propagandists, we so believe you.  China's ruling party has NEVER given us any reason to question its truthfulness and OBVIOUSLY peaceful methods.

I suppose the Dali Lama was also the one REALLY responsible for the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

And his 'evil' cult followers were the ones who were actually executing everyone even remotely involved in the opium trade (on film) by lining them up and shooting them all in the back of the head after the Communist takeover?

And I suppose Tibet hijacked the Chinese Internet and were really behind the demand that Google censor the searches of anyone in China who used the words 'freedom' and 'liberty' and 'human rights'.

Just another reason why Communism is bad.

[superluser]

"The Chinese government strongly opposes the U.S. Congress giving the Dalai Lama a so-called award,"

OK.  What would you call it then?

Also, the Dalai Lama seems like he will have the last laugh.  He's decided to be reincarnated outside of China, where the PRC government won't be able to have a say in figuring out who he was reincarnated as.

[Alondro]

I was commenting on further down in the article, where the Chinese political machine has been manufacturing stories accusing the Dali Lama of ties to the Japanese suicide cult among other things.

They weren't too happy about him getting the Peace Prize either, if you recall.

They've also tried to allow trade in tiger parts again...

http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jun/11tiger.htm

Plus, they're about to surpass the US in CO2 production and they've tried to poison the world with lead-tainted toys and pesticide-laced food.

China = fail!

[Valynth]

I also have a feeling that China wouldn't be demanding Tiger testicles if the government hadn't banned Viagra.

[Kuari]

Just another reason why Communism is bad.

Communism is good in theory...  problem is, communism that is seen is really a dictatorship in disguise...

In any case, yeah, I get the feeling a lot of that is bull.

[Jigsaw Forte]

Just another reason why Communism is bad.

Communism is good in theory...  problem is, communism that is seen is really a dictatorship in disguise...

Any political system can become a dictatorship in disguise. Seen Bush lately? :-p

[Valynth]

I have yet to see Bush crush the news media and install his own.

[Fuyudenki]

nor have I seen Bush even attempt arrests for people speaking against him

Which Clinton actually did.(succeeded a couple of times, too, I think.)

You are, however, correct in your statement.  Look at the Supreme Court.

Also, the government of the state of Colorado, which recently passed a tax on rainwater, by circumventing the steps which are supposed to allow the citizens to vote on it.

[Tapewolf]

nor have I seen Bush even attempt arrests for people speaking against him
Which Clinton actually did.(succeeded a couple of times, too.)

As an anecdote, during the early part of the war on Iraq, there was a brief period when it was practically treason to speak against him, or so it seemed to the rest of the world.  It was during this time that I first heard Witch-hunt - Part III of 'Fear' on Rush's Moving Pictures album, and it filled me with absolute horror that what they were describing in a song recorded 21 years earlier was happening at that very moment.  It still gives me the shivers to listen to it.

Anyway, during that horrible period there was a guy who was arrested in a shopping mall for wearing a shirt protesting the war.  I'm sure there was another side to that story, but you wouldn't have known it from the news coverage.

[Kuari]

The news is very biased, so honestly I have trouble trusting it half the time...

And Raist...  only power the Supreme Court has is to declare laws unconstitutional.  They have no other real power.  Anything that is brought to them involves constitutional issues.  So really they're just enforcers of that...

Only problem is that they're all too old..  should have at least a couple younger people on it for more flexibility.

And wait...  Colorado put a tax on RAIN water?....  If that law is kept intact, it's their own damn fault for them not fighting it.  If a law is stupid, a person should either do something about it or shut up and put up with it...  also kind of why I dislike illegal immigrants.  If your country is so bad, do something about it, sheesh..

[Ryudo Lee]

I have yet to see Bush crush the news media and install his own.

Yes he has.  It's the FOX News network.

[Fuyudenki]

And Raist...  only power the Supreme Court has is to declare laws unconstitutional.  They have no other real power.  Anything that is brought to them involves constitutional issues.  So really they're just enforcers of that...

Only problem is that they're all too old..  should have at least a couple younger people on it for more flexibility.

That is the Supreme Court's job.  That is not what they do.

What they do is to declare laws unconstitutional because they don't happen to insult Christianity, or declare laws to be constitutional because they want a city to legally be able to steal a person's land out from under them.

And we can't do a thing about it, because they're elected until they kick off, or get bored.  They're appointed by the president, but after that, they answer to nobody.

And wait...  Colorado put a tax on RAIN water?....  If that law is kept intact, it's their own damn fault for them not fighting it.  If a law is stupid, a person should either do something about it or shut up and put up with it...  also kind of why I dislike illegal immigrants.  If your country is so bad, do something about it, sheesh..

We're trying.  The problem is that they simply declared it into law, and sent everyone a bill based on satellite images showing how much of your property is grass, and how much is concrete.  This is highly illegal, and directly against the Taber bill.  The general consensus over what to do about it is simply not pay the bill.  Last time something like this happened, we threw a rather famous tea party.

I have yet to see Bush crush the news media and install his own.

Yes he has.  It's the FOX News network.

the origin of Fox News has nothing to do with Pres. Bush, they just don't happen to unequivocally hate him.  On the flipside, who can forget CNN, the Clinton News Network?(or would that be Communist News Network?)

I don't watch them, personally.  They're a bit liberal for my tastes.

The difference between big news media and DMFA: DMFA's author is honest about her story being fiction.

[Valynth]

I have yet to see Fox become the ONLY news network.

[superluser]

[stuff]

So your points are

1.) China fabricates news
2.) China hates the Dalai Lama
3.) China pollutes more than the US

Shock!  This is the first time that I am hearing these stories.

Anyways, I've heard this stuff enough that I have outrage overload (and yes, each of those things makes me very outraged), and I simply decided to comment on the other parts of the article.

Communism is good in theory...  problem is, communism that is seen is really a dictatorship in disguise...

This will not end well.  I'm one of the more liberal commentators in these political threads, and I'm a Libertarian, so I might suggest some asbestos underwear.  Or Astroglide.

And Raist...  only power the Supreme Court has is to declare laws unconstitutional.  They have no other real power.  Anything that is brought to them involves constitutional issues.  So really they're just enforcers of that...

Not necessarily.  The Supreme Court is often involved in non-Constitutional issues, as well.  Actually, that's what they were designed to do.  They only got the power to overturn laws because of a blatant power grab in Marbury v. Madison which the rest of the government was too feeble to reverse.  Of course, the fact that Madison was the chief architect of the Constitution suggests that it might not have been an accident.  The power to declare laws unconstitutional is a pretty awesome power, though.  I'm not sure I'd want to give too much power to the branch of government that can declare you guilty, anyways.

[Fuyudenki]

Communism is good in theory...  problem is, communism that is seen is really a dictatorship in disguise...

This will not end well.  I'm one of the more liberal commentators in these political threads, and I'm a Libertarian, so I might suggest some asbestos underwear.  Or Astroglide.

Nah, I pretty much agree.  Communism is a fantastic idea in theory: everyone helps everyone else, and everyone is happy.  Unfortunately, it's based on a flawed premise: that people will want to help everyone, instead of just trying to skim their cream off the top.  That's why it always has failed, and always will.

The power to declare laws unconstitutional is a pretty awesome power, though.  I'm not sure I'd want to give too much power to the branch of government that can declare you guilty, anyways.

Anyone who's ever played a half-competent Counter deck in Magic: The Gathering knows exactly how powerful the ability to say "no" is, and the Supreme Court has that power better than any MTG Counter deck ever will.  A mediocre Blue mage will shut down an entire game.  A good one will make the game a chore, and emerge on top no matter what happens.

It's decidedly a bad idea to give that much power to anybody.

[edit]alternate example: Orihime, from Bleach, who has the power to deny pain, harm, and even opponents their existence privileges.  It's the only power she's got, but she's later accused of being more powerful than a god, because of it.

Of course, Orihime has the power far more seriously than the Supreme Court does.  And she doesn't exercise it nearly as much as they do.
[/edit]

[Valynth]

Communism is good in theory...  problem is, communism that is seen is really a dictatorship in disguise...

This will not end well.  I'm one of the more liberal commentators in these political threads, and I'm a Libertarian, so I might suggest some asbestos underwear.  Or Astroglide.

Nah, I pretty much agree.  Communism is a fantastic idea in theory: everyone helps everyone else, and everyone is happy.  Unfortunately, it's based on a flawed premise: that people will want to help everyone, instead of just trying to skim their cream off the top.  That's why it always has failed, and always will.

Actually capitalism can do that too.  It just doesn't kill you if you don't comply.

[superluser]

Nah, I pretty much agree.  Communism is a fantastic idea in theory: everyone helps everyone else, and everyone is happy.  Unfortunately, it's based on a flawed premise: that people will want to help everyone, instead of just trying to skim their cream off the top.  That's why it always has failed, and always will.

See, I don't think Kuari thinks that Communism would fail if you gave the power to the right people.

I, on the other hand, don't think it's possible to give that power to the right people.  It's cliché, but I believe that ``anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.''

Anyone who's ever played a half-competent Counter deck in Magic: The Gathering knows exactly how powerful the ability to say "no" is, and the Supreme Court has that power better than any MTG Counter deck ever will.  A mediocre Blue mage will shut down an entire game.  A good one will make the game a chore, and emerge on top no matter what happens.

It's decidedly a bad idea to give that much power to anybody.

Comparing the Supreme Court to MTG?

Anyways, I'd like to know how you'd plan to take that power away from the Supreme Court, since it's essentially jurist nullification. (see what I did there?)

Actually capitalism can do that too.  It just doesn't necessarily kill you if you don't comply.

FTFY.

[Fuyudenki]

add an impeachment option, so that the people can tell members of the court that we don't like the job they're doing.

of course, if such a bill ever crossed their desk, the court would rule it unconstitutional...

I agree, though.  Any person who wants power should not be given it.

[superluser]

add an impeachment option, so that the people can tell members of the court that we don't like the job they're doing.

You got it!

1804 March 14:

Whereas, the House of Representatives, on the 13th day of the present month, by two of their members, Messrs. John Randolph and Early, at the bar of the Senate, impeached Samuel Chase, one of the Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, or high crimes and misdemeanors, and acquainted the Senate that the House of Representatives will, in due time, exhibit particular articles of impeachment against him and make good the same;
(end of the page)

Whew!  That sure ended Judicial Review.

[Kuari]

And Raist...  only power the Supreme Court has is to declare laws unconstitutional.  They have no other real power.  Anything that is brought to them involves constitutional issues.  So really they're just enforcers of that...

Only problem is that they're all too old..  should have at least a couple younger people on it for more flexibility.

That is the Supreme Court's job.  That is not what they do.

What they do is to declare laws unconstitutional because they don't happen to insult Christianity, or declare laws to be constitutional because they want a city to legally be able to steal a person's land out from under them.

And we can't do a thing about it, because they're elected until they kick off, or get bored.  They're appointed by the president, but after that, they answer to nobody.

And wait...  Colorado put a tax on RAIN water?....  If that law is kept intact, it's their own damn fault for them not fighting it.  If a law is stupid, a person should either do something about it or shut up and put up with it...  also kind of why I dislike illegal immigrants.  If your country is so bad, do something about it, sheesh..

We're trying.  The problem is that they simply declared it into law, and sent everyone a bill based on satellite images showing how much of your property is grass, and how much is concrete.  This is highly illegal, and directly against the Taber bill.  The general consensus over what to do about it is simply not pay the bill.  Last time something like this happened, we threw a rather famous tea party.

I have yet to see Bush crush the news media and install his own.

Yes he has.  It's the FOX News network.

the origin of Fox News has nothing to do with Pres. Bush, they just don't happen to unequivocally hate him.  On the flipside, who can forget CNN, the Clinton News Network?(or would that be Communist News Network?)

I don't watch them, personally.  They're a bit liberal for my tastes.

The difference between big news media and DMFA: DMFA's author is honest about her story being fiction.

OK, guess I haven't been keeping up with the Supreme Court much...  but there IS an impeachment option...  Congress has that power...  sooo..  basically if we hate the job the Supreme Court does, gotta take it up with Congress...

Anyways, a better idea to do with that bill would be to have a nice peaceful gathering, everyone bringing that bill...  and everyone all at once, burns it.  Gets more of a message across rather then simply not paying.

Anyways...  wasn't this topic about something else originally?

[Valynth]

It's called the balance of powers, if one section isn't doing things right, get the other two sections on 'em.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Anyways, a better idea to do with that bill would be to have a nice peaceful gathering, everyone bringing that bill...  and everyone all at once, burns it.  Gets more of a message across rather then simply not paying.

They'd arrest you for starting a fire in public without a permit...

[Kuari]

Anyways, a better idea to do with that bill would be to have a nice peaceful gathering, everyone bringing that bill...  and everyone all at once, burns it.  Gets more of a message across rather then simply not paying.

They'd arrest you for starting a fire in public without a permit...

Who says it couldn't be held by someone WITH a permit :p

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Sshhhhh, you're giving them ideas... ;-]

[Alondro]

Passing laws to tax people without a vote is done all the time to us in NJ.  But then, NJ's government was controlled by a few monopolies who'd installed all their own people in the late 1800's, and thus the laws that were made legalized measures that would get you thrown in prison in other states.  But the people of Jersey do it to themselves by constantly voting in the same people who rob them blind year after year.  They're all too fat and lazy (and stupid.  I live here, I know; the people in this state are mostly morons.)  Now they want to pass a law which will end up banning all hunting and fishinig (if you read its wording, it stealthily allows that, and PETA members were already applauding it... anytime PETA is happy with a law, be very very afraid.)

And the people keep voting for the same scumbags, because they just do what their leaders command them to do.  No independent thought at all.

For instance, Mayor (for life) Sharp James of Newark was voted into office for the umpteenth time while under numerous indictments for fraud and corruption spanning decades, including one case where he sold city-owned land to a girlfriend for a few thousand dollars per lot, and she turned around and sold them for hundreds of thousands (blatantly illegal, by the way).  He was finally taken into custody this year. 

We finally have a strong-willed federal prosecutor going after all the elected crooks, Chris Christie, I believe his name is, and he's nailed quite a fw already.

[Tapewolf]

For instance, Mayor (for life) Sharp James of Newark was voted into office for the umpteenth time while under numerous indictments for fraud and corruption spanning decades ....

He was finally taken into custody this year.

Is he still the mayor, though?

[Fuyudenki]

fortunately, here in Colorado, we've got the Taber bill, which is supposed to allow us to vote on tax increases.

Our officials are being bought out by Californicators, though, which is part of why the state's going down the tubes.

In Colorado, we have so many Californians and Texans, we never drink with the same ones twice.

[superluser]

Our officials are being bought out by Californicators, though, which is part of why the state's going down the tubes.

Git any evidence for that?

Not because I disbelieve you, but rather because I actually do believe you and would like to mock California politicians.

[Alondro]

Every now and then a good person does manage to get elected to the state senate in NJ.  That person goes in with high ideals for ridding it of corruption and inevitably introduces a bill to give the state's citizens 'initiative and referendom', which would mean we'd get to vote on many budget decisions.

And every time, the bill dies painfully, as the very thieves who are robbing the treasury are the ones who must vote to pass it.  Instead, another bill granting all the state officials big raises for doing such a good job emerges, and passes with an overwhelming majority.  The good person gives up, drives a spike through his temples, and becomes yet another zombie mind-slave to 'the Blob' (the name we've adopted for out state government, no matter what you hit it with, it survives and just keeps getting bigger, devouring everything in its path).

Oh, and I just found out 220,000 people left the state this year out of disgust.  We now have a negative population growth!

[superluser]

And every time, the bill dies painfully, as the very thieves who are robbing the treasury are the ones who must vote to pass it.  Instead, another bill granting all the state officials big raises for doing such a good job emerges, and passes with an overwhelming majority.

Why don't New Jersey voters kick the bastards out, like Pennsylvania did?  They kicked out 55 legislators (17 didn't even get the party nom), the chief justice of the state supreme court, and an associate justice of the state supreme court.

Oh, and I just found out 220,000 people left the state this year out of disgust.  We now have a negative population growth!

I would think you'd like that.