06/30/07 Abel's Story [#93] Blood

[Caswin]

Aniz isn't showing much of a human nature, only that of an underhanded deciever.

Then again, he isn't human...

The point is, I think, he's really not showing any redeeming qualities at all, and like I've said before (different topic) all but admitted to not having any in his "motivation" speech.

[Kenji]

"Redeeming qualities" are all a matter of perception.

[MaskedRetriever]

Quick hit on SAIA:  Not "largely" for torture and murder.  It's just a prominent thing in the curriculum.  My suspicion is actually that Fa'lina is interested in (long term) a MORE peaceful relationship between Cubi and beings: what drives her is the survival and improvement of the Cubi race, and the Creature Council is increasingly aware of how powerful beings are becoming...

Yet she teaches soul-stealing and eating.  Admittedly one of the major themes in my future fanfic is using the technique to save people, but this is not what people in DMFA canon have been using it for AFAIK which is why I thought the concept was interesting to explore.  Even Abel is blase about this although his opinion on actually consuming them is unclear at this time.

I think the closest we have to Abel expressing himself on this is "Most Cubi are Jerks" or perhaps "if I were going to be racist I'd be racist against a group likely to randomly rip out my spine also".

We don't have any reccord of soul-yanking used for rescue, 'tis true.  My point isn't that Fa'lina doesn't teach people how to do extremely nasty things to beings (and indeed other creature races when appropriate) but that she too sees the writing on the wall when it comes to the long term survival of her species.  To survive, the various creature races won't be able to ignore the progress of Beings and their technology for long:  they will need to bring their moral systems in line or fight.

And Fa'lina values the peace dividend.  Look at the school she built.

[Tapewolf]

Admittedly one of the major themes in my future fanfic

That should have read "future history" - I meant the thing is set in the future, not that it's something I'm planning 

To survive, the various creature races won't be able to ignore the progress of Beings and their technology for long:  they will need to bring their moral systems in line or fight.

I don't buy that as an excuse for teaching soul-eating.  Killing people is arguably self-defence - trapping their souls, possibly - but eating their souls, no.

[MaskedRetriever]

To survive, the various creature races won't be able to ignore the progress of Beings and their technology for long:  they will need to bring their moral systems in line or fight.

I don't buy that as an excuse for teaching soul-eating.  Killing people is arguably self-defence - trapping their souls, possibly - but eating their souls, no.

Fortunately for me, I didn't mean that it was.

The soul-eating, the torture, all that, exists because this represented a working survival strategy: kill or be killed.  Eat souls to grow even stronger.  Strength is survival.

I do not mean to excuse Fa'lina for all the violence in the current curriculum, but rather I mean to imply that she can see as well as I can that this strategy won't work forever, as beings develop nonmagical defenses and strengths that far outstrip any demon race, changing the balance of power in a way qualitatively different from previous systems.

SAIA is configured to maintain peace with the other Creature races: how the beings get along is ignored because by Old Creature Morality, one might as well scheme to make peace with a flock of (nonsentient) sheep: it makes no sense!

But times are changing, and I'm sure Fa'lina can see this.  I'd go so far as to suspect her of plotting to make peace with the Beings just as they become a threat.  But in the meantime, there's still some power to be taken from them while they can't defend themselves...

[Tapewolf]

Ah.  Yes, that makes sense.

Actually, one of the key ideas in Future History was to use the soul-eating technique for something else.  I'll not elaborate as it's a bit of a spoiler for anyone who may intend to read it.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I do not mean to excuse Fa'lina for all the violence in the current curriculum, but rather I mean to imply that she can see as well as I can that this strategy won't work forever, as beings develop nonmagical defenses and strengths that far outstrip any demon race, changing the balance of power in a way qualitatively different from previous systems.

Yeah. The zerg rush is a hell of an equalizer. :-]

*cough*

[techmaster-glitch]

But still a total noob tactic, lol

[Caswin]

"Redeeming qualities" are all a matter of perception.

Alrighty then, speaking in about as broad a manner as possible from the (roughly the same) being/human point of view: let's call actually caring about someone other than yourself a redeeming quality.  To use the above examples, Kria, Aaryanna and Fa'Lina, whatever horrible (subjectively, you might say) things they might do, have been shown to care about the well-being of at least a select few others.

Aniz - although this could change in the future, judging again by his "motive" spiel, it doesn't seem likely - has shown no such thing.

The soul-eating, the torture, all that, exists because this represented a working survival strategy: kill or be killed.  Eat souls to grow even stronger.  Strength is survival.

...even though they can get by for centuries on purely harmless and passive emotion-feeding, and probably more still out of a healthy relationship or something.  That's not a matter of doing what's necessary for survival, it's power.

Sorry, I don't think I've kept up with the in-comic history too well, where are you getting evidence for Fa'lina's long-term peace-with-other-races plans?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

He's guessing, I think.

Reasonable extrapolation, but no real data either way, IMHO. :-/

[techmaster-glitch]

Sorry, I don't think I've kept up with the in-comic history too well, where are you getting evidence for Fa'lina's long-term peace-with-other-races plans?

It's not the history, it's the subtle hints, clues, and descriptions. Fa'Lina's entire clan was wiped out, remember that. That's the main reason she founded SAIA, and why she occasionally pushes for better race-to-race relations as a whole, even though she herself continues to kill and devour the souls of Beings. Which is kinda twisty, I'll admit.

[MaskedRetriever]

Also, Fa'lina's reaction to losing her clan, and to the violence, was to establish a safe haven where things would always be peaceful, and where Cubi could be comfortable and NOT live as warriors.

I put it to you that the very nature of SAIA speaks volumes for Fa'lina's attitude towards a peaceful existence.  It far more closely resembles a college than a battle school or military academy.

[Caswin]

Reasonable extrapolation, but no real data either way, IMHO. :-/

I'd say, y'know, killing beings without a second thought and devoting classes to pain and terror might count as data against it.

and why she occasionally pushes for better race-to-race relations as a whole

That's my question.  Where'd that crop up?

[techmaster-glitch]

*checks* Hrrmmm...
You know what? I don't know. I guess it was just one of those rumors that pops up somewhere, and everyone starts reciting it, because it sounds simple and viable enough to be true. But after actually checking the comic and demo. 101...
So Fa'Lina may or may not have been actually pushing for peaceful relations between Cubi and other races. And she may or may not have even tried to pushed for peace between Cubi clans, either. What she has done, however, is enforce peace between Cubi with the walls of her Academy. That much is fact.

[Tapewolf]

...even though they can get by for centuries on purely harmless and passive emotion-feeding, and probably more still out of a healthy relationship or something.  That's not a matter of doing what's necessary for survival, it's power.

Yes.  I don't know for sure, but my assumption is that the nominal lifespan listed on the Demonology page is roughly what you'd expect without soul-eating.  Of course it might also be the average they make before an Adventurer whacks them.

Anyway, remember Mab's line from 308: "Was Dan aware that succubi and incubi live for a couple of thousand years?"
I hardly expect Miss I-Never-Liked-Violence to try and persuade Dan to go 'round eating souls, so I imagine she's referring to their natural lifespan.

[rt]

Eek that info about the forehead is strangely familiar, I've heard nearly that exactly before.  Now to go off and try not to try to remember where that was. (Cause trying to remember never works  )

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Anyway, remember Mab's line from 308: "Was Dan aware that succubi and incubi live for a couple of thousand years?"

It's also possible that she's lived for so long that she is unclear on the difference between 2000 and 20,000...

[rabid_fox]

I remember that line well because it's in the song "What did Daniel think he was?" which has become an anthem for me and my friends. None of which read DMFA, but all of whom enjoy quirky offbeat music with amusing lyrical content.

[Tapewolf]

I remember that line well because it's in the song "What did Daniel think he was?" which has become an anthem for me and my friends. None of which read DMFA, but all of whom enjoy quirky offbeat music with amusing lyrical content.

Funnily enough, I've been working on that song again lately to sort out the flat parts of the chorus so it was on the tip of my tongue.  That and I'm working on the Disasters arc audio.

[rabid_fox]

Magnifique. I'm slowly revealing the pink, flesh new skin under a slaughterous git of a blister that was on my foot from doing an 85 mile walk for charity last week. Your life is more productive than mine...and less revolting too.

To link this to Abel, I suspect that his feet blister easily.

[Angel]

.........

That was just cold. Seriously. How he knew Abel was scared of blood is beyond me. but I did want to kill Aniz for a sec. Not for the first time, too, but the other times, his hotness and awesome-ness made me forgive him. But God... even if it worked, I fail to see how that's gonna get Abel to go with him. Unless he faints.

Deliberately inciting a genuine paralizing fear in someone for no other reason to spite them and prove the attacker is better when there are other, gentler ways of incapacitating someone? The cut itself, you're right, is not particularly evil. Deliberately using someone's mortal fear against them? Evil.

I agree. I said something like this in one of the games once, and I think it applies here. Even the shallowest wounds can leave a longlasting scar.

[techmaster-glitch]

Abel has had his fear of blood his whole life, and Devin mentioned it once "when they were kids". If Devin saw an episode once, I can't imagine how Aniz wouldn't have either. Little kids get cuts, scrapes, and skinned knees all the time. Abel would have freaked out evey time he pricked his finger. Of course Aniz would know about it.

[Rafe]

Everyone seems to forget that Aniz can read minds, including memories - and I'm sure something as powerful as a fear of blood would be very easy to notice.

[techmaster-glitch]

Yeah, that too.

[kaskar]

 

Everyone seems to forget that Aniz can read minds, including memories - and I'm sure something as powerful as a fear of blood would be very easy to notice.

  Why would Aniz need to have to read minds? As Abel's father, he already knows that Abel will throw a heaving fit at the merest sight of blood ...  And everyone knows what that looks like ...



Looks Bloody good ....

[Kamunt]

He's guessing, I think.

Reasonable extrapolation, but no real data either way, IMHO. :-/

Unless he's actually an incubus, in which case he may have already infiltrated Amber's dreams, thereby penetrating her normally aluminum-protected brain and thus discovering all of her secrets......

....Or something.

[AndersW]

I do not mean to excuse Fa'lina for all the violence in the current curriculum, but rather I mean to imply that she can see as well as I can that this strategy won't work forever, as beings develop nonmagical defenses and strengths that far outstrip any demon race, changing the balance of power in a way qualitatively different from previous systems.

Yeah. The zerg rush is a hell of an equalizer. :-]

*cough*

There is a difference between a zergling rush and a zergling rush with rocket launchers.

If technology gets advanced enough it's going to be rocket launcher time, and that is what the Creature council is worried about.

[Manawolf]

::Smacks AndersW's idea in with the pile alongside sharks with lasers::

[AndersW]

I got the idea and just had to post it to get it out of my head.

And I am just using it as an analogy.  But the point is there.

An army of beings poses no threat to creatures, however an army of beings all armed with "Farming Equipment" with some "Mining Equipment" for backup is another matter altogether.

[MaskedRetriever]

I do not mean to excuse Fa'lina for all the violence in the current curriculum, but rather I mean to imply that she can see as well as I can that this strategy won't work forever, as beings develop nonmagical defenses and strengths that far outstrip any demon race, changing the balance of power in a way qualitatively different from previous systems.

Yeah. The zerg rush is a hell of an equalizer. :-]

*cough*

There is a difference between a zergling rush and a zergling rush with rocket launchers.

If technology gets advanced enough it's going to be rocket launcher time, and that is what the Creature council is worried about.

PRECISELY.

Preciesly why, in fact, Jyrras' secret lab is a massively IMPORTANT chess piece in this game.  It's like, a freakin' teleporting queen or some s#!+.