Holiday from electricity

[superluser]

I suppose now's as good a time as any to mention that I may be on a holiday from electricity, gas and possibly hot water starting at around July 2.

I found this notice on the front door to my apartment complex the other day.



Then someone took it down.  Lucky for them, the utility company sent a copy to every apartment.  Since we don't pay our own utilities, if they don't pay the $20,684.72, I'm going to be in the dark and without fans or stove by July 2.  The hot water comes from a boiler, and they may or may not provide the fuel.

So anyways, I may not see you on the second.

[Netami]

I am pretty sure you can sue the shit out of your landlord... He's obviously not been using your rent the way he should be.

[Damaris]

It doesn't matter about the rent- but they are, under housing laws, required to make certain things available in order to make the domicile livable.  If the lights go out on the second, you and your neighbors may want to talk with a lawyer.

[techmaster-glitch]

If I were renting a place like you are, and the electricity goes out for only one day, and I'm told well enough in advance, I wouldn't press charges or sue. Jeez, people sue over the stupidest and most trivial things. I'm not talking about you superluser, because you haven't said you are going to do anything like that...yet.

[Aridas]

Actually, it's not stupid at all. Can't say the same for your reasoning though.

[techmaster-glitch]

Is one day without electricity going to kill you? It's. Not. A. Big. Deal. There are people in the world who get along without even a roof over their heads.

[RJ]

I remember once the entire valley I lived in lost power for a couple days. And when we finally had enough of waiting, we rang up the power company and we found out nobody had even reported it.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Is one day without electricity going to kill you? It's. Not. A. Big. Deal. There are people in the world who get along without even a roof over their heads.

Why would they turn off the utilities for only one day?

[techmaster-glitch]

From what it sounds like, the landlord hasn't been paying enough of his bills. So it sounds like they are going to cut his power-and the power of everyone renting and apartment/room/whatever the hell kinda deal they have, for, from what it sounds like to me, a day. If I'm wrong (which I very well might be) then until the landlord gets all the bills paid. Depending on how long that is, it might/might not be a problem.

[superluser]

Is one day without electricity going to kill you? It's. Not. A. Big. Deal. There are people in the world who get along without even a roof over their heads.

Some people are very sensitive to heat.  You hear every year about people who die from heatstroke or other related disorders.  If the air conditioning goes out in one of the apartments, someone could die.  I don't have A/C, and I'm not sensitive, so it's not as much of an issue for me specifically.

But everything in my fridge will go bad, I won't be able to use the stove, I'll be taking cold showers, my alarm clock will stop working, there won't be a light in the place... and electricity may be required to be provided under state law.  I'll have to check with the housing authority, but I may simply not be obligated to pay for rent for the period of time during the outage.

And yes, there are starving people in Ethiopia who don't have any electricity to eat, but I paid for this electricity, and I want what I paid for.  Also note that this place is probably a 70 unit complex.  That corresponds to about $295 per apartment.  It's been a while since I lived in an apartment where I paid utilities, but that's not what a one-month bill would look like.  This debt is obviously from several months.  Possibly even up to half a year of delinquent payments.  That would correspond to $50/month/apartment.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that they will turn it off and not turn it back on until they get their money plus some security that this will not happen again.  Add to it the fact that they probably make $35,000 in rent every month, if they don't pay the bills, they'll just be digging the hole even deeper.

[Azlan]

Generally only water and trash service are required, unless their is a signed lease that states electricity is provided, then there is little legal recourse that can be taken.  The exception being if said loss of power adversely effected you or another tenant, then the landlord would be held liable. 

Whoever owns this apartment sounds like a slumlord...

[Netami]

Is one day without electricity going to kill you? It's. Not. A. Big. Deal. There are people in the world who get along without even a roof over their heads.

What kind of point are you trying to make here? If I work hard to provide for myself and possibly others, namely if I pay my landlord a monthly rent, I shouldn't treat that like it's a privilege. It's a basic service for money contract here; super should brook no lapse in his utilities. Jump on this asshole as soon as it goes off and milk it for all it's worth. Lord knows the fuck will just claim bankruptcy and our system will make you the one to pay for it anyhow.

[superluser]

Generally only water and trash service are required

It depends.  I just checked, and it says that it needs to be heated during the cold parts of the year, and if utilities get disconnected due to landlord's delinquency, I can sue for damages.  If the place is not habitable, I can withhold rent for the duration of the uninhabitability.

The issue is that the complex was built in the late 19th century, and it really hasn't been updated much--just what's needed to meet the letter of the law.  That, and the old superintendent, who really cared for the building, was replaced by some other people who really do not.

Anyways, I'm looking around for a new place.

Edit:

Lord knows the fuck will just claim bankruptcy and our system will make you the one to pay for it anyhow.

Yeah, come on!  Why don't you want to pay for my landlord's bills?

[techmaster-glitch]

Jump on this asshole as soon as it goes off and milk it for all it's worth.

THAT is the point I am trying to make. Most people are greedy little shits. If someone wrongs me, I wouldn't sue them for money, because I wouldn't need it. I would just make sure the appropriate legal punishment is administered.
That's in fact mainly the reason why there are 'anti-good samaritan' laws here in America. If someone is choking on a chicken bone in a restaurant, and you give them the Heimlich (however the hell you spell it), and save their life, but accidentally give them, say, a massive bruise (that would eventually heal), even though you saved the person's life and if it weren't for you they would be dead, the person who almost choked has every right to sue you. If you hatefuly, maliciously stand by, taunting them as the choke to death, but essentially do nothing, no real legal action can be taken.
This has happened because people are so quick to sue as soon as they have a bad day. "Oh, something's not going right for me! I better sue someone!". That is disgusting.

How this all relates to the current topic. If I were living under a landlord, and the utilities went out for a day, I would deal with it. If, however, it went on for several days or longer without remedy, I would take him to court, not sue him, but make sure the appropriate legal punishment is dished out.

And in case anyone is wondering, wants to know, or even cares, no, I am not some altruistic religious preacher.
I am atheist.

[superluser]

I would take him to court, not sue him, but make sure the appropriate legal punishment is dished out.

Wow.

One of us has no clue how the legal system works, and I surely hope it's not me.

If you take him to court, you are suing him.  In addition, I don't think that this is a criminal case.  I think that tenant-landlord disputes are taken up in civil court, so the only way to get this resolved is to sue him, because the district attorney is not empowered to prosecute such a case.

Also, when you sue someone, there are compensatory damages (usually pretty low, and involve things like the value of the electricity or the value of the food that was in the fridge or the value of my life if I somehow died from no electricity), and then the punitive damages.  These are the multimillion dollar awards that you hear so much about.

If, for example, my landlord paid the bill, but the utility company refused to restore the service, I could sue them for the money that I paid them.  But assuming that I win, the company has come out ahead, since they had my money for the duration of the case, and they most likely have invested it and earned interest and so forth.  Punitive damages are designed to make sure that no one tries to game the system and come out ahead.

I don't know what sort of damages I'd seek for a case like this, but not everyone is necessarily looking for thousands of dollars from a simple suit like this.

[techmaster-glitch]

I don't know what sort of damages I'd seek for a case like this, but not everyone is necessarily looking for thousands of dollars from a simple suit like this.

Hmph. A lot of people I know certainly would.

If you take him to court, you are suing him.  In addition, I don't think that this is a criminal case.  I think that tenant-landlord disputes are taken up in civil court, so the only way to get this resolved is to sue him, because the district attorney is not empowered to prosecute such a case.

I was thinking something along the lines of maybe kicking him out, or taking away his privilages to be a landlord, or something like that. But if lawsuit really is the only punishment for a thing like this, that's really funked up. Because I simply would not need the freaking money.

[Netami]

The district attorney will bring him to court for breaking the law, but he will address those wronged if they want to press charges. I say, why the fuck not? Sometimes understanding is fine and good, but for fucks sake... How do you neglect 20,000 dollars worth of bills and expect your tenets to not notice when their utilities get shut down. You'd have to, day by day, be confronted by the horrible truth that you're fucking with several people and be okay with it, because if he was even the least bit proactive he'd have let everyone know that some serious shit was going down.

It's one thing to sue someone for calling you a cock sucker, or because they stepped on your foot, but this seems like fair play to me. The greedy assholes are the ones that bring people to court over a lost pair of pants, not the ones wanting reparations from greedy assholes.

[superluser]

The district attorney will bring him to court for breaking the law

No, he won't, because it's not a criminal offense.  Criminal offenses are the ones where the law ends in ``is a class E felony,'' and the cases are named things like ``The people of the state of Arizona versus Alan Smithee.''

Only criminal offenses are prosecuted by the district attorney, and not everything that's against the law results in jail time and/or fines.

[Damaris]

I was thinking something along the lines of maybe kicking him out, or taking away his privilages to be a landlord, or something like that. But if lawsuit really is the only punishment for a thing like this, that's really funked up. Because I simply would not need the freaking money.

They only way he could lose his privileges as a landlord is if he had also not been paying his mortgage or tax bill, and the property was repossessed.  Sadly, monetary damages are the only way to punish most people in America for doing shitty things like this.

[Brunhidden]

I have stared this problem in the face many times, and each one was terrifying. can you really imagine to live without your refrigerator, stove/microwave, and telephone?

when stuff like this happens you can call social services to see if you can get energy assistance, but you have to be below a certain income and can only do it once before having to wait at least a year (or never again, depends) to apply again. they also require your check stubs for the last six months as proof. In the winter they also provide heat assistance, which probably saved my daughters life when she was an infant.

I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it.

[Ryudo Lee]

Is one day without electricity going to kill you? It's. Not. A. Big. Deal. There are people in the world who get along without even a roof over their heads.

I have stared this problem in the face many times, and each one was terrifying. can you really imagine to live without your refrigerator, stove/microwave, and telephone?

Been there, done that.  It was called hurricane Katrina.  And granted, I'm a heavy fellow, living in Louisiana.  It was friggin' hot in my apartment.  Seriously.  It was cooler outside than it was inside.  I was stuck there for two days, and stuck at my parents house for one more day.  By the time I got to my grandparents house, I was literally drenched in sweat, hadn't been able to shower since before the storm, and was probably halfway dehydrated.  Air conditioning never felt so good.  You never really appreciate things like running water and air conditioning until you don't have it anymore.

So I feel for ya superluser.  What you need to do is freeze some water in some 2 liter bottles.  That will help keep your frozen goods frozen and keep your fridge cool enough so that everything doesn't spoil immediately.

[Cemalidor]

 
Good luck for you superluser, hope things will clear up.

[superluser]

In case anyone is wondering, July 2 came and went with no power outages.  Sometimes, disconnections don't take place when they should, so I was waiting to see if they did anything on the 3rd.

And I was totally absorbed in Fallout 2, so that's why I wasn't hanging around.

[Alondro]

Bah.  Who needs the courts?  You just get an angry mob and throw the guy off the old windmill.



Angry mobs are fun!