it seems my (old) school bigwigs are the only dumbasses in office

[lucas marcone]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19293872/?GT1=10056

this school bans HIGH FIVES. how *insert obvious adjective here* can you BE!

[Zedd]

WTF??? Anyone over there have a brain??

[Brunhidden]

Its paranoia.

some schools have a rule that if you are getting the tar beaten out of you by a bully you should lye limp and will be punished if you flail. You might accidentally hit the person reducing your organs to a messy pulp after all, and that would make them mad. Yeah, like they weren't mad already.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself

[Alondro]

Children should stay at home, locked in their rooms with the windows barred and shaded from all exterior contact.

Either that or be working in the coal mines and textile mills for a pittance!  Ah, those were the days!   

*poor orphan*  Please sir, I'd like some more.

*Charles tosses the 'unruly' child into the alligator pit*  And let that be a lesson to the rest of you little larvae!   

[rabid_fox]

Physical contact is a terrifying thing in a law-happy society. There is no such thing as normal adult-child contact anymore. Even that sentence sounds paedophilic, when what I'm talking about is a hand on the shoulder, a pat on the back, a high five (god forbid) or even a simple handshake.

I got told off for breaking up a fight. I stood between two boys throwing punches at each other, put my hands on their chests and pushed them apart. Proper protocol would have been for me to watch until the fight was over, regardless of how bad it got and then escort both pupils down to the head's office.

Frankly, I can absolutely understand this rule being passed. In a society of contact-paranoia, it's protecting the pupils and protecting the teachers. It's appalling that we need to think about this sort of thing, but try this out - use the word "touch" in casual conversation. You'll see how incredibly taboo the word and, in part, the concept has become.

Sad. Also true.

[Aridas]

Pff. That's nothing. Back in grade 1 or so I hugged a girl that was crying and got in trouble for it on account of the zero-contact rule.

[Netami]

Where I went to school, there was no such law. We used to beat on each other all the time. Hands on shoulders, grope-o-ramas, you name it.

That's why I am so secure in my masculinity. Thanks, public schools!

[Brunhidden]

the horrible thing is that human beings need physical contact for happiness and health.

they actually did a study on it on babies in Africa- those who were fed, clothed, and everything else perfectly normal except they had no physical contact....a good chunk of them died, the only difference being they were not held by a person. Its possible that some of our more prevalent mental issues are stemmed from a lack of physical contact as well.

A superstition is a premature explanation that overstays its time.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I got told off for breaking up a fight. I stood between two boys throwing punches at each other, put my hands on their chests and pushed them apart. Proper protocol would have been for me to watch until the fight was over, regardless of how bad it got and then escort both pupils down to the head's office.

Personally, I'd be quite happy with you hitting my child, were he to behave that badly. Of course, I'd want to have some serious words to you afterwards, but, honestly, if my child is that far out of bounds, it serves the little shite right to get bounced on his little arse.

Having said that, we've been bringing him up to be better behaved, even when provoked. With a modicum of success, even.

[rabid_fox]

I'm not talking about striking a child. I'm talking about putting myself between two lads, getting punched myself a few times when they tried to punch around me and putting my hands on their chests to keep them apart. Jesus, if I'd struck a child to break up a fight I'd be in the dole queue by now.

Interesting point though - on the subject of old schools. I was browsing my old school's website and there's a picture of me on there. Yeah! That was YEARS ago.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm not talking about striking a child. I'm talking about putting myself between two lads, getting punched myself a few times when they tried to punch around me and putting my hands on their chests to keep them apart. Jesus, if I'd struck a child to break up a fight I'd be in the dole queue by now.

Oh, yeah. I realised that. I was just saying, IMO, kids these days don't get enough authority to keep them in line. Admittedly, it was bad back when I was going through it, but it seems the PC crowd won't let anyone do anything that might make anyone even think that, y'know, the kid might be being a victim of paedophilia or something stupid. Sure, there's a responsibility to the parents to make sure that doesn't happen, but there's also a responsibility to the child to provide a valid teaching environment, and without the authority to back that up, the kid is only going to learn to twist the rules to suit him or her self.

It's got utterly -weird- in teaching. You get no hope of earning the child's respect, but you're expected to keep them in line anyway...

Go figure. Children are little animals anyway. Even the best of the bunch don't think the same way adults do at the best of times.

[Alondro]

*nods*  In the school my brother subs at, some kids throw desks when they don't feel like doing work.  They all have cell phones and talk on them in class.  They fail pretty much everything and graduate at the same reading level I was in by first grade, with even lower spelling and mathematical ability.  Seriously, there are seniors that can't perform subtraction or division without a calculator.

It's sad, but the illegal immigrants coming in are pretty soon going to exceed the educational level of American students.  America's literacy rate is the lowest in the developed nations, and we have our asses handed to us when it comes to math and science.

But I guess who needs that stuff when we can get endless sports, sex, and Spike TV (I bring up the last thing because I watched "The Man Awards" for a television survey.  It was the most banal, stupid, profoundly mindless thing I have ever seen.)

The state of the nation is obvious when you consider a so-called movie named "Jackass II", which is no more than perverted idiots outdoing themselves in profanity from their previous stupidity, makes it to number one in the box office when it's released in theaters.

[RJ]

Society is just going over the top... kids need discipline from not just their parents, but anyone else that is expected to look after them. When I was at school they'd break up fights in an instance (not that there were many though), and through that, kids learnt that hitting each other should never be an option.

Funny still, because I saw something about child discipline today on a morning show saying that you should generally ignore the fighting. They said to set rules for the children, and then punish them if they went over the line. It's a good idea.

But, I can also see why the PC crowd is getting the way they are with the whole touching thing. You just don't know who is to trust. I'm very embarrassed to say it myself, but I was a slight victim myself.

[Fuyudenki]

I'm very embarrassed to say it myself, but I was a slight victim myself.

You shouldn't be emberrased about it, you didn't do anything wrong.  If you don't say anything about it, that's the same as condoning it, and is the root of why suddenly, guys can't hug in public anymore.(actually, I have a good friend who greets me with a hug whenever he sees me.  Big, manly hug.)

I'm reasonably sure that if someone touched my little sister like that, she would talk about it, because she knows that her three brothers, her father, and her mother would make sure the jerk thought twice about going within ten feet of a girl again.  Result?  Most friendly, huggable people you'll ever meet.

I agree with most of the people here, though.  It is truly pathetic what is happening to this world when authority figures aren't allowed to exert said authority.  That's the same thing as having no authority at all.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm reasonably sure that if someone touched my little sister like that, she would talk about it, because she knows that her three brothers, her father, and her mother would make sure the jerk thought twice about going within ten feet of a girl again.  Result?  Most friendly, huggable people you'll ever meet.

Heh. I was just thinking - my younger sister, growing up with 3 older brothers, would probably talk about it.

What she'd say is probably something like "That idiot there tried to abuse me. Someone want to call an ambulance for him? You can tell who he is, he's the one wearing earrings...." after creating said earrings with her knee.

Doesn't take anything from anyone, my sister. :-] Lovely girl for a hug, though.

[Valynth]

I never had much of a problem with getting touched.  I mean, in fifth grade I was already looking my teachers in the eyes flatfooted.  By highschool, I was a 6' 4" Giant that everyone assumed was some evil bully simply because I could stare down on everyone, which is not the same as staring some one down.

In other words, I never really had a problem with people trying to touch me mostly because I could beat the everliving snot out of them if they tried that stuff on me or anyone nearby.  Of course, I'm speaking only of the "groping" kind of touching.  Unfortunately my physical form also kept me from experiencing the appropriate forms of contact outside of fist-to-face.

[rabid_fox]

I'm not talking about striking a child. I'm talking about putting myself between two lads, getting punched myself a few times when they tried to punch around me and putting my hands on their chests to keep them apart. Jesus, if I'd struck a child to break up a fight I'd be in the dole queue by now.

Oh, yeah. I realised that. I was just saying, IMO, kids these days don't get enough authority to keep them in line. Admittedly, it was bad back when I was going through it, but it seems the PC crowd won't let anyone do anything that might make anyone even think that, y'know, the kid might be being a victim of paedophilia or something stupid. Sure, there's a responsibility to the parents to make sure that doesn't happen, but there's also a responsibility to the child to provide a valid teaching environment, and without the authority to back that up, the kid is only going to learn to twist the rules to suit him or her self.

It's got utterly -weird- in teaching. You get no hope of earning the child's respect, but you're expected to keep them in line anyway...

Go figure. Children are little animals anyway. Even the best of the bunch don't think the same way adults do at the best of times.

I think you're being unfair. I love my job and I have a lot of respect as a teacher from pupils (point in case, two weeks ago we changed timetables and a class that I had wrote a letter to the head-teacher of the school saying that they desperately wanted me to continue as their teacher and all signed it. That was a moment of glow).

Usually, issues in school come from over-reaction and, frankly, they're kids, they don't have fully functional social skills yet. That's part of what schooling should be helping them with. Schools that don't and teachers that don't are failing the kids, well beyond the classroom and well beyond their subject area.

That said, I don't know what things are like over in America but I find that even the roughest-hewn kids will show appreciation of a bit of recognition that they're actually noted as individuals from a teacher, and that carries into the classroom. I'm by no means a perfect teacher, and I don't have Stepford Children walking into my lessons, sitting down and saying "Teach us, sir," but neither do I see the appalling behaviour that some teachers witness (from pupils that I teach, no less) day in, day out.

Kids are intense. That's all.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... And I'm no teacher. ;-]

Heck. I have difficulty teaching adults who are, theoretically, able to think for themselves. ;-]

[rabid_fox]

I blame their teachers. Oh ho! Triple-irony in four words. That's some going.

[Valynth]

... And I'm no teacher. ;-]

Heck. I have difficulty teaching adults who are, theoretically, able to think for themselves. ;-]

QFT!

Though I must say it's mostly because, for some reason, they don't want to learn.  I mean, how can you live here in the U.S.A. and be illiterate without a medical excuse anymore?  Seriously, I don't even -try- to learn things and I'm a genius compared to the average U.S. citizen.  It's a sad day when you get out done by a slacker who prides himself on being a slacker.

Oh well, it's a person's right to be as ignorant as they want, but they don't have the right to force anyone else to be ignorant by, say, throwing another person's books in to the garbage.  If that happened to me I'd beat the holy and hellish out of the person who threw my books and claim defense of property and rights.  If the school didn't accept that and tried to punish me I'd sue demanding a fair trail as guaranteed by the U.S. government for punishments rendered, injecting a little reality in to the highschool life and there by solving a significant portion of the problem (or at least negating the initial school charges against me).

[RJ]

I'm very embarrassed to say it myself, but I was a slight victim myself.

You shouldn't be emberrased about it, you didn't do anything wrong.  If you don't say anything about it, that's the same as condoning it, and is the root of why suddenly, guys can't hug in public anymore.(actually, I have a good friend who greets me with a hug whenever he sees me.  Big, manly hug.)

I'm reasonably sure that if someone touched my little sister like that, she would talk about it, because she knows that her three brothers, her father, and her mother would make sure the jerk thought twice about going within ten feet of a girl again.  Result?  Most friendly, huggable people you'll ever meet.

I agree with most of the people here, though.  It is truly pathetic what is happening to this world when authority figures aren't allowed to exert said authority.  That's the same thing as having no authority at all.

If anything, I feel like a moron for not having told my parents until later. I hadn't actually had anything about that kind of stuff told to me before so I didn't understand. But I'm glad I got out of it before it got to anything really serious. Still, it's probably that which affected me with ever wanting to go to any kind of swimming lessons after that.

[Fuyudenki]

I'm reasonably sure that if someone touched my little sister like that, she would talk about it, because she knows that her three brothers, her father, and her mother would make sure the jerk thought twice about going within ten feet of a girl again.  Result?  Most friendly, huggable people you'll ever meet.

Heh. I was just thinking - my younger sister, growing up with 3 older brothers, would probably talk about it.

What she'd say is probably something like "That idiot there tried to abuse me. Someone want to call an ambulance for him? You can tell who he is, he's the one wearing earrings...." after creating said earrings with her knee.

Doesn't take anything from anyone, my sister. :-] Lovely girl for a hug, though.

how old is your sister?

If anything, I feel like a moron for not having told my parents until later. I hadn't actually had anything about that kind of stuff told to me before so I didn't understand. But I'm glad I got out of it before it got to anything really serious. Still, it's probably that which affected me with ever wanting to go to any kind of swimming lessons after that.

ooh bleh, bummer.  You can still swim, though, right?  I can't imagine how someone could live in Australia and not know how to swim.(keep in mind, I live in land-locked Colorado, in America, so I may just be stupid...)

But yeah, I do have to admit, other guys can be pigs, sometimes.  I believe you've heard that in Japan, they actually have to have women-only subway cars, and the camera phones are required to have a fairly loud alarm that sounds whenever you take a picture(the latter as a defense against voyeurs who go into bathrooms to take pictures with their phones)

As far as touching other people goes, I generally try to figure out what a person is comfortable with.  If they don't mind being hugged, I hug them.  If they don't like being touched, I don't touch them.  If I don't know, then I default to the more conservative extremes, and I make every possible effort never to touch a woman in the chest or pelvic area.

An arm around the shoulders couldn't hurt, though, could it?

[Kryptic]

Wow - and that makes my school seem so lenient...

I'm from a place where nothing ever happens. So there's no restrictions on what colors you can wear, what hand gestures (save a few international ones) you can make, etc.

My best friend and I always hugged (both of us girls) when one of us was missing for a day or two. I can't stand being without her for long. >,<

I just graduated from high school - and I'm a Band Geek, meaning I spend a lot of time with the same people. I've caught male friends dancing ballroom-style in the band room before and thought nothing of it. Heck, we've tried making people pyramids and playing "Baby, if you love me" in public school before - the latter in class once. (Here's the game, as reference) - But we always played the game in good, clean, fun...

Except for that time in the pool...

Ahem; The only rules were "No Schmecking" - or kissing on our band teacher's watch. And curfew on trips, as well as being "taped" in our rooms on trips. (masking tape on the door to tell if it's been opened). It's never been a problem for me because I never had a relationship in high school.

Well at least my part of the U.S. is still relatively kick-back.

[RJ]

ooh bleh, bummer.  You can still swim, though, right?  I can't imagine how someone could live in Australia and not know how to swim.(keep in mind, I live in land-locked Colorado, in America, so I may just be stupid...)

I don't go swimming much at all really. But yeah, I know how. I was able to take a few more lessons at another place a few years later. At least until some kid kicked me in the nose and caused me to go the next few years getting randomly-induced nosebleeds. Ugh, that wasn't pretty either. I got a nosebleed on a cross country going up a hill, and I didn't know it was blood until I got to the top and the first aid guy there freaked out because he thought I'd been stabbed. He said he'd never seen a nosebleed go on for so long...

Yeah, that's my luck for ya. 

[Xuzaf D]

I got in trouble at school for getting stabbed with scissors once.

[xHaZxMaTx]

I got in trouble at school for getting stabbed with scissors once.

I can't even make sense out of that.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

how old is your sister?

She and her husband have 5 kids now.

[King Of Hearts]

wow... that rule sounds... intense.

People touch, Kids rough house, its what they do. There should be better ways to stem violence or PDA than something that strict.

Does touching someone really have THAT much risk? Are children being taught to distrust everyone else, that they may be out to get you or molest you?

My old school was pretty lenient... I got into plenty of scraps, good and bad without getting sent to principal's office. Quick friendly pecks are alright, but nothing sensuous.

[rabid_fox]

It's interesting how many people turned a topic about physical contact into a "Physical Strength" topic. That tells you a lot about attitudes.

[Brunhidden]

I remember school, the crusade against inappropriateness had just started- with rules against spaghetti strap dresses, belly shirts, and those tank tops some men wear that the arm holes go down to the belly button.

these rules were enforced by the idea that a teacher who weighs 300 pounds and has a beard longer then my arm would wear them should anyone else come to school so dressed.

I'm fine with that, but physical violence was very hard to stop... the crowning moment was when some little numbnutz jumped on my back and started punching my head swearing like a sailor with his nuts in a vice. I took this in stride, literally, and continued to walk down the hall to my assigned class. On the way I passed five teachers, who watched with a blank stare and all told the higher ups. That nutjob was not expelled, or even suspended or detained, they had tried it before and none of it worked.

I say some limits should be in place, but most of those limits have been around for years and we do not need to freak out at such little things- can you imagine a world full of people who grew up being told that both teams in football won, people are not allowed to touch each other, you can only say 'nice' things to each other (yeah right, most seven year olds swear three times as much as i do), and anything even resembling physical activity is dangerous... the children of today will grow up to scare me a great deal, like children of the corn scary.

As I walk through the valley where I harvest my grain, I take a look at my wife and realize she is very plain.