03/06/07 [Cubi02] Mind reading 2

[GabrielsThoughts]

Plus, how well would a cubi be able to keep up with someone who thinks rather fast, like a person with ADHD.  Those trains will lead you to nowhere.

How would a person with ADHD be able to handle intense combat effectively?

in all honesty a person with Attention Deficit Disorder is more likely to survive in a combat zone. Provided their mental state isn't affected by Medication and, before  Attention Defficit Disorder was a disorder it was originally concidered a sign of genius rather than a sign of autism. It is beleived Edison, Einstien and Alexander Grahm Bell, all sufferd from the disorder. The only reason We're (Americans) dead last in science is because of the generation of medicated, unimaginative, and uninspired youths, have elevated to the level of Adulthood, and they lack creativity to see beyond a textbook.

[Netami]

We're dead last? Oh man, you mean places like Bali are beating us? Nigeria?!

Ohgod, if we don't hurry up they may do something like create the internet, cure diseases, or invent the Segway!

GET THESE KIDS OFF MEDS

[James StarRunner]

I think amber over estimated James

Actually now that I think of it, not only would the cubi not likely read my mind anymore, they would be inching away from me or even running.

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

[Amber Williams]

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

NEVAH!
Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

[Manawolf]

Why that reminded me of Yu-Gi-Oh DMX I'm not quite sure.

[Kenji]

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

NEVAH!
Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

*insert obvious squirrel joke here*

[Jack McSlay]

heh I can't go go through a law book on my head, but I could endlessly go through proggramming codes... that may not be boring to a cubi, but will make him/her go



now I begin to wonder if mind-flooding will also be featured in this arc

[Manawolf]

Technically we've seen mindflooding, in how Abel incapacitated Dan to get a head start back to Lost Lake.

[Zedd]

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

NEVAH!
Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

Im the one of the few odvious ones when it comes to your thoughts....And...I SMELL YAMS...and porno

[Magic]

Now, the first thing I have been pondering is that, just how abstract thoughts and ideas can a cubi read from one's mind (assuming that the said cubi is interested in the person's thoughts in the first place). Speaking for myself, for I have no idea how other people think, quite a few of my thoughts are remarkably abstract. Images, feelings, pieces of ideas and concepts, loose words and smells. How much of these would a cubi be able to receive just by means of thought-reading?

And for that matter, is it even possible for another person to make any sense of these thoughts?

On the grounds that we can not yet fully understand how the brain works (or better yet, how the average being in DMFA's brain works) even if we have already recorded every nerve impulse we will ever send to our body or brain in our lifetime, no one can really tell for sure.

The same rule would generally apply since it would still be a thought anyway; whatever you might be thinking currently, the incubi or succubi can pick up.

Interestingly, we are getting a bit close to incubi/succubi dream invasion/manipulation which should be covered in another comic.

Another thing I have been wondering about are mental relations. Say you think about a word "horse". Nothing else, just the word. Can you really do it? I doubt it. Unless you are really concentrating on the word itself and have a strong, well disciplined mind, there should be about a dozen things that pop into your mind at this time. Old memories. Some pictures you saw a few years ago. Mental images of some places. All sorts of things that you assosisate the word with.

Well yes. Normally, the incubus or succubus would hear all associated thoughts, if they are being thought of.

However, it's the same with words, and it's the same with every other person out there. If something someone said about you catches your attention and you feel that you 'have' to respond to it, you just might. Otherwise, you can just ignore it.

As people, we learn to tune out what we don't need, if we can. A crowd shouting out different things at once will drown out what you're probably trying to hear.

The third, and probably the furthest fetched thing I have been pondering about are interpretations and can these be thought-read. While thinking about these, I feel that songs of different kinds are the best mental image to begin with.
Still assuming that a cubi would be interested in my thoughts (why, I don't know, but I guess there are weirdos even in the cubi race), lets say that I am "singing" a song in my head. I belive we can all agree that a cubi can thought-read the song itself. Now, lets assume that the lyrics of the song are more poetic and not absolutely clear about what they are saying. I probably still have some idea of how I am interpreting these lyric, as in, what I THINK they mean. Is this a thought that can be thought-read?

Now, a little more extreme example. Lets say that I am listening to a song in a language that I know, but the cubi doesn't. Now, I can understand the lyrics, but the cubi can't. But can the cubi thought-read my "understandment" of the song?

Just a thought.

We have got to stop the 'thought' puns.

But let's look close into what you're saying--

I believe we can all agree that a cubi can thought-read the song itself. Now, lets assume that the lyrics of the song are more poetic and not absolutely clear about what they are saying. I probably still have some idea of how I am interpreting these lyric, as in, what I THINK they mean. Is this a thought that can be thought-read?

The incubus or succubus will hear you sing the song, if you are thinking about that. However, if you are not thinking about your interpretation of the song, the incubus or succubus won't immediately know your interpretation of it.

Remember, you yourself can only think of so many things at once. What you're saying is like trying to sing a song and speak out a speech at the same time. You might be able to do that, but it's unlikely.

Conversely, like any other person, an incubus or succubus can only ever seek to hear so many things at once. Like normal people, they learn to ignore--tune out what they don't need.

Now, a little more extreme example. Lets say that I am listening to a song in a language that I know, but the cubi doesn't. Now, I can understand the lyrics, but the cubi can't. But can the cubi thought-read my "understandment" of the song?

No. Same with above. Unless you're thinking about it in the 'language' that the incubus or succubus can understand, they probably still wouldn't. But then, this is still up for debate.

"Whether or not Chinese thought is different from American thought."

Think about it, though, how many languages are canon in DMFA?

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

NEVAH!
Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

... 

You are giving me ideas.

[Jack McSlay]

Technically we've seen mindflooding, in how Abel incapacitated Dan to get a head start back to Lost Lake.

it wasn't exactly that what I was thinking about... I was more specifically reffering about a technique I've seen in some stories featuring mind-readers where the person who is having his mind read start thinking up random thoughts so the reader will have no idea what the person is actually thinking

[Tapewolf]

I was more specifically reffering about a technique I've seen in some stories featuring mind-readers where the person who is having his mind read start thinking up random thoughts so the reader will have no idea what the person is actually thinking

I think that's one kind of mind-shield that Beings can use.  This was also done in Dr. Who - Invasion of Time.
Then there was Wyndham's "Midwich Cuckoos" / Village of the Damned, where the teacher focuses his mind on the wall to avoid the telepaths picking up on the bomb he's planted to kill them all.

[Kenji]

I was more specifically reffering about a technique I've seen in some stories featuring mind-readers where the person who is having his mind read start thinking up random thoughts so the reader will have no idea what the person is actually thinking

I think that's one kind of mind-shield that Beings can use.  This was also done in Dr. Who - Invasion of Time.
Then there was Wyndham's "Midwich Cuckoos" / Village of the Damned, where the teacher focuses his mind on the wall to avoid the telepaths picking up on the bomb he's planted to kill them all.

"I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face.I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face.I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face."
Sorry, just reminded me of the Yu-Yu reference..

[James StarRunner]

Thanks everyone! And thanks Amber! Just warn me next time you deside to use me, kay?

NEVAH!
Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

Meep! *dies*

*insert obvious squirrel joke here*

Coming Soon: DMFA-XXX, starring James Starunner...

... 

You are giving me ideas.

Be gentle...

Actually in seriousness, I don't know if there are plans with my character, but I have to request that if a picture is going to be 'R' rated that my character not be a part of it. If there's anything borderline, I plead that people give me details before I approve.

[Amber Williams]

Don't worry James, my days of exploiting you are over.

[James StarRunner]

I rather figured you wouldn't do any sort of XXX comic anyways.

Though... I'm not sure I can totally take you seriously with that smiley...

I'm not really worried though. I don't think you'd be the kind to injure my character's reputation anyways. Again, I'm grateful for the cameo appearance!

[Caswin]

Think about it, though, how many languages are canon in DMFA?

At least two, off the top of my head.  Three if you count chatspeak.  Hey, that could actually work...

[MT Hazard]

Reminds me of a Buffy the vampire slayer episode where she can hear everyone's thoughts, most of it is a jumble, like a noisy room, but one voice says clearly "By tomorrow morning you'll all be dead"

I'd Imagine that thought hearing is like normal hearing in the regard that only if you were really listening or some word caught your interest (like the fact you can hear you name easily) would you take any interest, everything else is noise.

Imagine being stuck in a noise party all the time, suddenly filtering/mind shields make sense.


Apologies if if repeated what other people have said.

The problem with a lot of fiction about thought hearing is that is assumes, for plot convenience that most people think in Coherent  sentences, plot convenience  is often necessary but those who really stand out are the ones who consider the can of worms their chosen subject unleashes.

Amber is obviously one of these people, I just hope she doesn't have the same problem I have, not knowing where/when to say 'its just magic', needing to know how a fictional creation they created works, thinks and feels. I write too much notes and not enough story because I need to know.

And for those of you that are still reading...

Imagination is the most beautiful and terrible thing, at its best it can unite millions of people in feelings of awe, hope and fellowship.It allows us to see beyond our problems.

At its worse it allows us to create methods of death and pain and will abuse any good thing that comes along.

Humans are compromises, no one can have everything and every good thing seems to come at a price. If we can learn to live with an imperfect existence and work together to make it slightly better  there will always be hope.

I'm going to stop now.(Sigh) the response will probably be this anyway

[superluser]

Think about it, though, how many languages are canon in DMFA?

Hmm.  Actually, what language *do* they speak at Lost Lake?  It looks like English, but so does Rigelian.

Alien: Greetings.  I am Kang.  Do not be frightened.  We mean you no harm.
   Marge: You, you speak English.
   Alien: I am actually speaking Rigelian.  By an astonishing coincidence,
          both of our languages are exactly the same.

The problem with a lot of fiction about thought hearing is that is assumes, for plot convenience that most people think in Coherent  sentences, plot convenience  is often necessary but those who really stand out are the ones who consider the can of worms their chosen subject unleashes.

Well, there's also the James Joyce option:

Howth. Bailey light. Two, four, six, eight, nine. See. Has to change or
they might think it a house. Wreckers. Grace Darling. People afraid of the
dark. Also glowworms, cyclists: lightingup time. Jewels diamonds flash
better. Women. Light is a kind of reassuring. Not going to hurt you.
Better now of course than long ago. Country roads. Run you through the
small guts for nothing.

[Tapewolf]

Hmm.  Actually, what language *do* they speak at Lost Lake?  It looks like English, but so does Rigelian.

Alien: Greetings.  I am Kang.  Do not be frightened.  We mean you no harm.
   Marge: You, you speak English.
   Alien: I am actually speaking Rigelian.  By an astonishing coincidence,
          both of our languages are exactly the same.

Merlitz was able to talk to the human, remember, so I'm assuming it's English - at least for the purposes of my own story.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

....And...I SMELL YAMS...and porno

I had to. Sorry, James. Truly, I am...

Hangin' round downtown by myself
And I had so much time
To sit and draw about
And then there he was
A sky-blue angel guy
Yeah there he was
Like disco squirrel fry
I smell yams and porno here
Who's that hidin' behind my chair
Who's that casting curious stares
In my direction
Fa'Lina this surely is a dream

Hangin' round downtown with The James
And I had too much caffeine
And I was thinkin' 'bout his frame
And then there he was
Blue feathered freak
Yeah there he was
And then I heard him squeak
I smell yams and porno here
Who's that hidin' behind my chair
Who's that casting fearful stares
In my direction
Fa'Lina this surely is a dream
Fa'Lina this surely is a dream
I smell yams and porno here
Who's that hidin' behind my chair
Who's that casting furious stares
In my direction
Fa'Lina this surely is a dream
Fa'Lina this surely is a dream
Yeah Fa'Lina this must be my dream


Edit: Gareeku pointed out one of the lines was incorrect. Whoops. James is still gonna kill me....

[James StarRunner]

*Stomps on llearch and sends him to a recycling bin to be shredded*

I'll take the yams though...

(Kudos for the creativity though)

[Boog]

We're dead last? Oh man, you mean places like Bali are beating us? Nigeria?!

Ohgod, if we don't hurry up they may do something like create the internet, cure diseases, or invent the Segway!

GET THESE KIDS OFF MEDS

I most certainly would appreciate it, if it weren't for the fact that my grades plummet when I'm off the damn things. The current methods of teaching in america is adapted from what was initially a method for training soldiers, and isn't very conductive to creativity. Thus, I take these charming little pills to make me stop daydreaming about life getting better than this or anything like that.  FUN!

My two cents. Sorry about that.

[Jack McSlay]

I think that's one kind of mind-shield that Beings can use.  This was also done in Dr. Who - Invasion of Time.
Then there was Wyndham's "Midwich Cuckoos" / Village of the Damned, where the teacher focuses his mind on the wall to avoid the telepaths picking up on the bomb he's planted to kill them all.

dunno, back on #706, Abel was't apparently able to read squat... Regardless, I would like to see this better explained

"I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face. I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face.I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face.I'm gonna throw a right punch, and stop just before his face."
Sorry, just reminded me of the Yu-Yu reference..

exactly what I was thinking of

[Tapewolf]

I think that's one kind of mind-shield that Beings can use.

dunno, back on #706, Abel was't apparently able to read squat... Regardless, I would like to see this better explained

Yeah, and that's another kind of mind-shield.  They've got at least one mage in their party, so they probably used a similar spell to the one Abel put on Jyrras.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Having people be able to read my mind would be great, it would make communicating a helluva lot easier, since I'm not very articulate when it comes to speech.

[Boog]

Having people be able to read my mind would be great, it would make communicating a helluva lot easier, since I'm not very articulate when it comes to speech.

Yeah, but imagine the funny looks you might get because of odd word assosiations.
"So lets play a game."
Thong.
"Dude, what the hell?"
"No! There's this game that you lose when you think about it, and you have to tell people when you lose, and whenever I lost around a friend of mine he'd say 'thong' so that I associated the game with thongs! That's all! I'm not a perv!"

[superluser]

Hmm.  Actually, what language *do* they speak at Lost Lake?  It looks like English, but so does Rigelian.

Alien: Greetings.  I am Kang.  Do not be frightened.  We mean you no harm.
   Marge: You, you speak English.
   Alien: I am actually speaking Rigelian.  By an astonishing coincidence,
          both of our languages are exactly the same.

Merlitz was able to talk to the human, remember, so I'm assuming it's English - at least for the purposes of my own story.

This is not a pipeEnglish.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they're speaking English if we read it as English.  Take the opening sentence of The Metamorphosis--``As Gregor Samsa awoke from a night of uneasy dreaming, he found himself transformed in his bed into a gigantic insect.''  Sorry, that's not right.  It was, ``Als Gregor Samsa eines Morgens...'' (also, `bug,' not `insect')

We know and remember the English versions, but that doesn't mean that that's what the characters are speaking in the story.

Or take the following sentence--it's in Frisian:

``Good butter and good cheese is good English and good Friese.''

Did you understand it?  Do you know Frisian?  Merlitz and the human could be speaking two languages that simply have enough in common that a few sentences work well enough to communicate.

I am actually asking because I'm having a character in my story (real soon now, I promise) who is a professor of what we would call English.  But is it English or Furrae or Lostlakian or...what?

[ShadesFox]

Maybe they both speak the language of plot device?

Though while I am on the subject, there is one great way to avoid a mind reader, made best by this quote from the show Heroes, "Stop thinking in Japanese!"

[superluser]

Maybe they both speak the language of plot device?

Look, I'm not wondering how they eat and breathe and other science facts.  I'm assuming that they speak the same language, and I'm simply wondering what that language is called.