Cybernations

[Sirios Skywolf]

Wait until you get real money, and get a bomber/fight fleet of Fifty. I've seen what those air-armadas can do...investing in Air Force is a good move.

[Valynth]

As for government, most people seem to recommend setting it to Monarchy regardless of what they want. If they actually want a monarchy, then that's even better

eh, right now I preffer democracy since it gives pluses to soldiers and happiness.  Later on, once infra becomes expensive I might switch over to monarchy, but right now I need to defense incase I get involved in a war at this young age o' mine.

Also,  all three of the suspected multies have started trying to give aid to meddle, each offer is within one minute of each other, and very recent.  This is some strange behavior, but I doubt meddle is a mutli since he has yet to accept any of them, so I'm assuming he's trying to bribe meddle into helping him.

If I were him I'd say "wow, 40+ tech?  YOINK!  Oh, and good luck with that war...you frigging multi-accounter."

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I'm willing to give meddle the benefit of the doubt for now, since he has different creation dates and login times. And, obviously, if he'd been controlled by the same person, he would have accepted the aid instantly. I don't think much of it will go through, either. The guy got greedy and tried to save everything, and we've already knocked whitey and lizzie down below the required tech levels. (I don't believe you can go into tech debt through aid.) If we hit phish a couple more times to bring his tech below 9, then his escape attempt will be completely wasted. That meddle guy hasn't been on since before the downtime; we've got until he returns to work on phish.

.. phish doesn't have more than, uh, 50 soldiers, now. I don't think any of them can meet terms on the trade... and I know I can't go and beat on any of them, because I get a 3%, 2%, and 0% chance of them winning. And the system won't let me do that....

Two missiles each, and they're just butter in the pan... :-]

[Kasarn]

Earlier (a few hours before update), after reading Tez's post, I just reduced my deployment to 100 soldiers and 12 tanks and attacked land of lizards (presumably Tez had already attacked him).

Battle Type:     Aggressive Ground Attack
Battle Outcome:    Victory
Seerfir Casualties:    35 soldiers 0 tanks
land of lizards Casualties:    33 soldiers 0 tanks
Battle Details:    Many of your soldiers lives were lost in this battle, even more than your enemy, but at the end of the battle your army was victorious. In your victory your forces captured 2.036 miles of land from land of lizards. They also destroyed 3.861 infrastructure within land of lizards. They also stole 0.987 technology from land of lizards. The value of your equipment abandoned in the battle was $0.00. Your forces looted $2,039.32 from the nation of land of lizards.

Battle Type:     Aggressive Ground Attack
Battle Outcome:    Victory
Seerfir Casualties:    18 soldiers 6 tanks
land of lizards Casualties:    21 soldiers 0 tanks
Battle Details:    Your soldiers triumphantly and decisively defeated your enemy in this battle. Your soldiers owe their lives to your hard work as their leader. In your victory your forces captured 1.955 miles of land from land of lizards. They also destroyed 3.706 infrastructure within land of lizards. They also stole 0.938 technology from land of lizards. The value of your equipment abandoned in the battle was $0.00. Your forces looted $1,354.69 from the nation of land of lizards.

Then I sacked him after update for GRAET VICTOLY!

You cannot attack land of lizards at this time because their battle odds are at 0% and are not high enough to fight your forces. The government of land of lizards has just been sent into Anarchy due to their lack of security forces. Riots engulf the nation of land of lizards as your soldiers relax and enjoy their victory. Your raiding party has destroyed all defending tanks within land of lizards and destroyed 0.89 technology and 15.59 infrastructure.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... I need to pay more attention to what the screens are saying, methinks.

*pages back a few* Hmm. Nope, no raiding parties. Just refusal to allow me to beat the pants off any of them. Awww. Poor little mites bit off more than they could chew...

[Kasarn]

Well, I assume you can only happen to a nation once a day for all their wars. So Tezkat, or somebody else, may have already done it.
From the wiki

Defeated Nations
If a nation is attacked with too few defending soldiers, then all troops which are deployed will be brought back home to defend the nation. If the attacked nation has no troops deployed and few defending troops then no battle will take place. However, the nation will be considered "defeated". Its government will be placed into Anarchy, riots will begin, its tanks will be dismantled, and the nation will lose 20% of its infrastructure (up to 20). These penalties will occur every day (once a day) that its attacker loads the battle screen until sufficient military forces are rebuilt.

Anyway, I still have a small military force, I could probably attack either of them if you want me to... but I think Valynth/Ainyo/Sheridan can probably handle mopping up the left over soldiers if they attack before they rebuild.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I think, at this stage, political repercussions is the mode we should follow.

.. ie, dob them in to the admins and watch them get thwapped. :-] But that's just my opinion....

[Arcalane]

Battle Type:     Planned Ground Attack
Battle Outcome:    Victory
ArcaTech Casualties:    21 soldiers
0 tanks
the whitest room Casualties:    13 soldiers
0 tanks
Battle Details:    Many of your soldiers lives were lost in this battle, even more than your enemy, but at the end of the battle your army was victorious. In your victory your forces captured 1.525 miles of land from the whitest room. They also destroyed 3.618 infrastructure within the whitest room. There was no technology stolen in this battle. The value of your equipment abandoned in the battle was $0.00. Your forces looted $25.00 from the nation of the whitest room.

You cannot attack the whitest room at this time because their battle odds are at 3% and are not high enough to fight your forces. The government of the whitest room has just been sent into Anarchy due to their lack of security forces. Riots engulf the nation of the whitest room as your soldiers relax and enjoy their victory.

Phishy is also in the same situation. Can't send troops because he's anarchizing.

[Valynth]

Nope, I can't smack him either, he has only 2 troop and phish just shipped the rest of his forces to meddle, and went into the negatives.  *points and laughs*

And I doubt the rewards for winning a battle with about 10 guys is enough to cover even the small amount you would lose from soldier death.

[Tezkat]

Haha! I got a PM from the guy complimenting me on my sexual prowess... or something like that. 

He logged in today to redo his aid shipments. The one from phishy already went through, and that nation is now messed up beyond repair. It seems we can't raid tech from a country with a tech level below 10. Oh well. Since lizzie didn't bother to replenish his troops, we can't do much more than the standard defeat raid (which is unlikely to drop him below 16); the new aid package will probably go through. He also dumped whitey's tech on another guy, who is unfortunately way out of our league.   

I have to say, though... this meddle guy is looking increasingly tasty... and he's been aiding and abetting a known cheater.    Most of his NS is bloat from tech and land, too. If we take out enough of his infra in the first wave of attacks, he'll be little more than a delicious tech dessert. It might turn into a fun war with his alliance too. (Both phish and white were originally SK337.) Several of their members (including white) are already a bit messed up from their own wars. It could be fun and even profitable if we're properly prepared.

Heh... I'm always the biggest carebear up until the fighting starts, and then I morph into a bloodthirsty warlord. 


Anyhow... aside from the possibility of myself and/or llearch receiving about $100k in infra damage as a parting gift from lizzie, it's safe to declare the first DMFA war over. Our opponents are helpless, and they'll probably be deleted soon for cheating regardless.

Good job, everyone!   

Anyone care to do a little postmortem analysis of the conflict while we're licking our wounds? What can we improve on for next time?

[Kasarn]

4/5/2007 12:19:22 PM
"Financial Assistance"    

[Team: Green]
soccer land
Ruler: damanda1
Alliance: Green Protection Agency

[Team: Yellow]
the whitest room
Ruler: slowhand1
Alliance: SK337    
$248,926
0 Tech
0 Soldiers

Approved

4/5/2007 11:32:00 AM
"Financial Assistance"    

[Team: Green]
soccer land
Ruler: damanda1
Alliance: Green Protection Agency

[Team: Green]
Tim Buck TOO
Ruler: jezby101
Alliance: The Imperial Republic    
$248,926
0 Tech
0 Soldiers

Canceled For Cheating

Canceled For Cheating
Canceled For Cheating
Canceled For Cheating
Canceled For Cheating
Canceled For Cheating

lulz

edit: For clarity
soccer land -> Tim Buck TOO = Canceled For Cheating
soccer land -> the whitest room -> Tim Buck TOO

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Haha! I got a PM from the guy complimenting me on my sexual prowess... or something like that. 

Likewise. I guess he doesn't like being on the receiving end of attacks from stronger people, being much happier to be on the giving end. *cough* I forwarded it to the admins.

As for the post mortem report:

Lessons learned include, keep some spare cash - perhaps a quarter of a daily collection, minus bills, preferably more, if you can - on hand, for response tactics. Make sure to have at least 20% of your forces defending, at all times - putting yourself into Anarchy bites, particularly mid-war. Cruise Missiles rawk the house down - purchase enough for your current battles, and loosen up the opponent by sending them in first. Tanks are useful, but need to be accompanied by troops.

Be willing to lose everyone you send in to attack the opponent. Be aware that, if the opponent has lots of cash lying about, he may well buy a chunk of troops and tanks to defend himself with, after deploying out to attack you. This isn't a bad tactic, but has some flaws - see the previous note about anarchy. Note also that if you keep some cash lying about, you can beef up your defences after his eat all your deployed troops.

Be willing to declare peace - but the attacker should go first. Also be willing to let the -rest- of the alliance know ASAP, as they may find out about it before logging into CN, and change their daily tactics as a result - I personally spend all my spare cash on infra, unless I have other things I know are going on, so getting to me before I spend it all is dead useful.

Don't be afraid to ask for troops, either, but be aware that you're limited to 4 aid sets, and only one per country, per ten days, so be willing to organise it and wait a couple days for the other guy to save up some cash and troops. Also, getting the alliance as a whole to declare on the poor unfortunate suicidal target is a good move, as soon as possible. Since the larger teams can send in one group of attackers across three or more targets at once, giving the attacker more targets than he can cope with is a good idea. Just be sure you're defended. Here is where missiles are useful...


Note that when you buy troops, sending them out to fight that day is a good plan, since you then don't have to pay upkeep on them - be aware that troops and tanks are, relatively speaking, cheap as chips. Missiles are slightly more expensive, but very easy to use, and carry very little risk for you. Certainly I know -I- enjoyed sending out 6 missiles across three targets first thing in the morning... :-)


... Other than that, anyone else have any suggestions? Make sure to keep your troops around 25-50% of your country numbers. More than that, your people get upset. Less than that, you risk being too easy a target to push into anarchy.

[Arcalane]

I'm surprised that my population happiness has almost entirely recovered already, although it'll take a little longer than that.

Also building up Tech for Cruise Missiles and Tanks now.

[Kasarn]

4/5/2007 8:33:21 AM "Saying Hi. Only with guns."

[Team: Purple] Demon Requiem Ruler: Lord Halisstrad Alliance: Defensive Mutually-Friendly Alliance

[Team: Green] SuperiorNation Ruler: queenlizzofc Alliance: None

Peace Declared

lolwut?

[Jim Halisstrad]

I got bored

[Tezkat]

More postmortem comments...


It could have been a lot worse, especially if the guy had thought to send a few missiles in return. Then again, I suppose the bright ones don't attack active alliance nations. 


As for myself, I was pleasantly surprised at my ability to prosecute a three-front war. Most of the enemies started out around my size. I inflicted a total of 257 infra damage in three days of fighting (an average of 28.5 per victim per day split more or less evenly between missiles and ground strikes), plus an extra 18 worth of missile damage last week (for a total of 275), looted 5.8 tech, and gained a bit of land in the deal. I'd have done even better if I hadn't made that mistake with the troop deployments yesterday. (Always deploy soldiers along with your tanks!) Considering my infra/land/tech losses to phish's crazy monster army after the weekend, I basically broke even despite huge military expenditures.


Initially, I was pretty intimidated by the size of some of those defending armies, but it wasn't so bad. The "downside" of aggressive attacks can actually work to your advantage. Because of greater than normal casualties, you can afford to deploy more forces. Their deaths make room for more troops to defend the homeland, so not only do you have a crazy strong offence, but your nation is nice and secure against counterattacks when you replace them at the end of the day.

I really like tanks. They're not all that much more expensive than soldiers, and they don't carry the downside of happiness problems. Against a well-defended target, they're necessarily the bulk of your deployment. Defensively, they're an anti-anarchy buffer. I was leaving 40-50% of civvie pop count in soldiers at home before attacks, deploying the rest, and making up the difference in tanks. My end of day soldier total was in the 60-80% range. I don't know if I needed that much, but I sure felt big and strong. 


Always check the status of the defenders before you deploy troops and attack. I made the mistake of deploying blind on Friday, and all my attacks bounced as a result. I had the opposite problem yesterday. A 50-100% strength advantage over your enemy is safe. Too high, and you risk knocking them below attackable levels. Much lower, and you might not get through.

With a bit more organization and tech, our alliance should have no problem dropping an enemy by 100 infra a day. Often, the bottleneck was the enemy being too weak to handle our forces. I was pounding them into anarchy from full troop levels with only two strikes. Maybe if we could better coordinate the handoff to our smaller nations...


I'm curious to know how the war looked from the bottom of our alliance. Did you guys feel like you were able to contribute, or were you completely on the defensive?

Either way, we need to get everyone up to cruise missile tech levels as soon as possible... maybe get an aid program running after all the wars expire. That way, everyone on our side will be able to  do serious damage; the smaller nations can just focus on defence while lobbing missiles across the border, and possibly even grab a few tech points for themselves after our big guys smash apart enemy armies.

Missiles = Good. 


I doubt that it's a good idea to send troops in aid, especially not during wartime. Troops are dirt cheap, and receiving them from an external source could seriously mess up your troop deployments. Better to just send money instead.


We need to develop a policy for handling these situations in the future. Does anyone who attacks our nations deserve to be squashed flat? Should we try diplomacy first and ask for reps?

Also, do we want a policy on first strikes by our own alliance?

I got bored

Case in point. 

Sorry you didn't get in on the fun this time, Jim.

[Arcalane]

I don't mind being on the defensive, really. I'd rather be able to hold my own than overextend myself by attacking.

[Sirios Skywolf]

very good guys; I've been keeping an eye on your war whilst doing my own three front fighting against an alliance called we are perth army, which made LARGE mistakes like joining a large enemy alliance in defensive manuevers, declaring on my alliance, etc, etc...

Very nice. I'll work up an aid package after the Great War 3 is over, hopefully it'll be substantial. I'll work on getting some buddies to raid some of these guys, as well.

[Valynth]

As a small guy, I couldn't really attack and spent most of the war on the defensive.  But even there I was constantly defeated due to the guy buying a f*ing huge army(around 150% his pop) and using over 1000 of them + tanks to wipe out my troops which never let me get above 80% of my populace, even in anarchy, resulting in me defending with, at most, 900 troops and I didn't get tanks untill he raided me four times.  Even then, I was getting defeated routinely.  Until the rest of the alliance started to pound him, I was pretty much defenseless and powerless.

The cruise missle he lobbed at me in the very begining didn't help either.

In short, about the only thing I actually didn't take a severe loss in was the time I stole at total of one point of tech from phish.

Though I still take pride in the fact that he ALWAYS lost about 100 more troops than me in every attack.

[Suwako]

  Well, I wasn't doing that well myself
the first attack  of the whitesthand

1st. You lost 218 soldiers and 20 tanks. You killed 147 soldiers and 51 tanks.
2nd. You lost 54 soldiers and 1 tanks. You killed 77 soldiers and 2 tanks.

Losses:

234 soldiers
21 tanks
2.4 in land
9.8 infrastructure
0.52 technology
11  Happiness (5 after re-soldiering)

that's beside the nation income being destroyed and being thrown into anarchy

I've stolen 4.2 in land while scavenging his remains.
about 100$ in cash as well.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... does anyone else have trouble logging in? Usually I end up having to hit "login" two or three times, but now, it's just ignoring me entirely...

[Suwako]

I'm having zero problems with logging in unlike some other sites.... 

[Valynth]

I don't have a problem on my end.  Also I'm raking in 20$ per citizen now.  Yay happiness!

Also, does anyone else notice that Monarchies and Democracies typicaly give enough happines to counteract the happiness level of most prefered governments plus the perks of being those gov. types?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Blowing away the cookie sorted it.

Hmm.

Oddly enough, my people wanna be a democracy anyway. *shrug*

[Tezkat]

The cruise missle he lobbed at me in the very begining didn't help either.

Amazing... he sent missiles against you guys but not me or llearch. What an idiot. 


Well... I just logged in to find said idiots gone, erased from existence by the almighty admins!  Thanks for alerting the mods, Sirios. It's a pity all evidence of their wrongdoing is gone as well, but I guess you can't have everything. It looks like juicy little meddle magically conjured 25 points of tech out of nothing.


Based on what I'm seeing here, we need to respond rapidly to any attacks in order to take the heat off of the victim(s). You can always break through the defences of somebody that's half your size. So... what say we make "aggressive" negotiations (ya know... with lightsabers  ) the order of the day? It could get us in hot water with trigger happy alliances. But with honourable alliances, it shouldn't be too hard to smooth things out diplomatically after the fact--we'll at least have the moral highground if they're the initial aggressors.


Anyhow, our first priority has to be getting our damaged nations up and running again. There's now an uncomfortably large gap between our largest and smallest nations. I'm gonna save up this weekend for aid packages.

Also, does anyone else notice that Monarchies and Democracies typicaly give enough happines to counteract the happiness level of most prefered governments plus the perks of being those gov. types?

Yeah. The problem with a lot of government types is that they carry an environment penalty--essentially a happiness penalty which cancels out much of the benefit of instituting a preferred government.

[Valynth]

well, that explains my unusually happy population in anarchy.  I had two +3 happiness events.  Which also explains why my population is so happy now.  Yay luck of the draw!

In case you were wondering the events were:  cure for the flu, and surplus oil.

[Tezkat]

Meh... some people have all the luck.  So far, my nation's fallen victim to two hostage-takings, a terrorist bombing, and a drought--no happy events in sight!

[Valynth]

considering how much smaller I am compared to you, I'd say it's about even.

[Suwako]

I had a great event yesterdday:

option one: +2 happiness -10 income
option two: -2 happiness +10 income
when not responding bonus: +2 happiness

.... dur I choose!

in other news: I am now just as strong again as I was before the war. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

mmkay. I've just bumped my infra to bring my people level up so that my 2622 troops are just -under- the 60% margin. That should increase happiness.

On that basis, I'm going to start saving up for the Tycador and Arcatech, and Tez, if you want to take the next two - they're around 900 strength, whereas T&A are around 600... I figure if we put together an aid package of ~400k each, that should create enough of a boost, you think? It'll take me all week to get each one, but hey... I figure, if you set aid at 300, and I set aid at 400, they should get enough of a boost to bring them into line, more or less.


Oh, and I reported the mail I got from Our Friend to the admins. That may have had some effect....