Jim's NFAQ now with 20% more... word... things.

[Jim Halisstrad]

Jim, was there deliberately a spelling mistake just after mentioning the spell checker? :-)

.... >.>
<.<



yes.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

I guess the grammar error was also, ah, just as intentional, then? :-)


You know, you should fire your proof reader. :-)

[Tiny crested flint]

This post is to be read in a 'matter-of-fact' voice:

Here's my difficultly Jim.  I can honestly admit that I don't draw, don't write, have no money, and don't act normal. In fact, I fit somewhat into the freak catagory.  Logic seems to dictate that based on this I should make some friends easily.  Yet I don't.  Is it possible my flaw is being a complete newbie at everything?  I honestly try to follow the advice given after only the first time I ask "how u mine 4 fish?". Really.  But then three weeks later I'm still stuck (mocking me for pure stupidness right now is to be expected)  In the words of my brother, "dude, you just don't get it and seem to be incabable of getting it despite honest efforts....hmmm....sucks to be you!" 
Help. Honest and brutal truth is expected. If un-helpable, ignoring me would be best answer. 

[Jim Halisstrad]

When people ask me for solid advice my soul dies a little on the inside. 
But here is my thoughts on the matter.
Making friends takes time, Patience, and common ground.  Honestly the only time I'll probably make a friend here on these boards is when I make it to a fur con.  Till then I most likely will be that guy who posts weird, discomforting things.

So, I guess you could call that the Acquaintance stage.

Let me let you in on a little secret.
I don't really make friends easily either.  And thats not really a bad thing.

Heck, if you see someone who you think you can hold a conversation with. IM or Email them.  Just say hey (WARNING PARAPHRASE) , I'm so and so from the boards/journal/whereeversite and see that you are interested in [insert intrest]  I also share this interest.  Let us discuss it.

And if it stays awkward and you wind up never talking about anything don't give up.  Eventually you will move past that awkward meeting stage and on too internet buddy.

Rl is a whole other can of worms.  Most of the friends I know there are from Highschool, clubs, or parties.

This might be more helpful if I wasn't so deliriously tired X.x

*edit*
Jim, the word is not acquittance
Love, Jim.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

... for a minute there, I read "RJ is a whole other can of worms" and I couldn't agree more, even though I couldn't figure out why you were mentioning it there... :-)

[Gabi]

I think it was funny, and I agree with most of it.

About the 'annoying' thing, I'm sure everyone has annoyed others in the past. The only people I find hopelessly annoying are the ones who post for the sole purpose of, excuse the redundancy, annoying others. And even those people have friends sometimes, when they find others with the same 'interests' and decide to go bashing message boards together. (I once saw a thread on another board where a few members were plotting to post as much SPAM as possible on a certain forum).

[Destina Faroda]

Trust me, no one ever wants to co-operate with my goals.

Posting spam is a stupid way of getting back at other people.  Spam is easily deleted, and there's no lasting impact.   I'd like people to do something that would actually hurt the person in a way that they won't be able to ignore, or alternatively, do something to elevate ourselves in respect to the others.  Unfrotunately, due to strength of numbers and occasionaly the fact that everyone follows the one person with power, even if you are successful, they won't just ignore it but actively squash it.  In short, you can't win...unless you get a lot of friends.

I've stopped searching.  Nine years is too long.

[Gabi]

Have you thought that maybe if you weren't so definite about the way you voice your thoughts and didn't address everyone as if you were certain they're wrong and there's nothing to do about it, they may be more willing to support you?

Dumb masses are made of many people, but not everyone is a part of them.

[Destina Faroda]

I believe in my convictions and I don't mince words.  Do I believe I'm right?  Of course.  Nearly all people believe they're right.  As a consequence of believing that they're right, anyone with an opposing worldview is thought of as being wrong.

Right now you believe you're right.  You're not saying, "Well, maybe she has a point.  I'll join her way of thinking."  No, you disagree with me vehemently.  Believe it or not, it's not the individual disagreement that I have a problem with.  It's the power behind it that bothers me.

What I don't understand is if you're allowed to disagree with me and be certain that I'm wrong, then that's okay, but if I disagree with you and I'm certain that you're wrong, then I'm the bad person whom everyone hates.  All I'm saying is that if we disagree, we disagree and then don't peg a label on me or reduce my influnce with people.  But when you band together and disagree with people and tell them they're wrong, you marginalize them and engage in power politics.

If I say, "Yeah, you're right" to everything, not only do I lose my individuality, I lose what little power I have left.  I have power over myself not to give in.  If surrender is death then I'm going to go out fighting.

Who's with me?

[Zina]

If I say, "Yeah, you're right" to everything, not only do I lose my individuality, I lose what little power I have left.  I have power over myself not to give in.  If surrender is death then I'm going to go out fighting.

Who's with me?

Who are you fighting? The internet? The evil politics of the forum? Are you being opressed in real life and feel that this forum on the internet is a good place to vent frustrations?

I think you're confused what it is you want from people. Do you want them to agree with you or disagree with you? You just said that you believe you are right, and therefore everyone else that oposses your view is wrong. In that sense, you want everyone to agree with you. However, they then lose their individuality, as you say. So....what then do you want from people? And what do you think people should want from you?
And...who said anything about everyone hating you?
Honestly....I think a lot of the problems you believe to be real are by and large in your head. No offense. =|

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

What I don't understand is if you're allowed to disagree with me and be certain that I'm wrong, then that's okay, but if I disagree with you and I'm certain that you're wrong, then I'm the bad person whom everyone hates.  All I'm saying is that if we disagree, we disagree and then don't peg a label on me or reduce my influnce with people.  But when you band together and disagree with people and tell them they're wrong, you marginalize them and engage in power politics.

If I say, "Yeah, you're right" to everything, not only do I lose my individuality, I lose what little power I have left.  I have power over myself not to give in.  If surrender is death then I'm going to go out fighting.

I think you're overstating the case.

Nobody is asking you to say "yeah, you're right" all the time. Nor is anyone asking you to agree. All Gabi was suggesting was that you were slightly less enthusiastic about decrying other people's opinions.

Rather than "You're wrong.", she's suggesting the approach of "You know, I disagree with this, and here's why" sort of thing.


You may find fewer arguments showing up, that way. That was all...

[Valynth]

Owned.
BY THE WHITE MAN. D:

eh, it could be worse, your freedom fighters could have been turned into satanic blood-sucking sex freaks by popculture, while the people are labeled as dirt poor, dirt farming slaves.

Owned.
BY THE IRISH MAN!...  And repressed freudian desires.

Incase you haven't guessed, I'm of slavic origin.

[Tiny crested flint]

As history itself shows,  people have always had a tendancy to label those few who are able to expertly wield the grand power of logic (especially when that logic is being chaneled into arguments which support opinions different from their own) as "annoying" at first.  At the moment (for now) I think that llearch, Zina, Destina Faroda, and Gabi are the most annoying people on the face of the earth.

So....what then do you want from people? And what do you think people should want from you?

I believe I want from other people Logical and well explained reasons for why they disagree with me. They can agree or disagree with me if they want but I hope they are doing so for a good reason.  I also believe that other people want good reasons from me as well, and they want me to have a willingness to both listen to and yeild to their arguments IF (if and only if) it is a better argument.

I just love debates like this because if you watch closely, at some point it will appear that everyone actually agrees subconsiously but still believe there is dispute only because of a small misunderstanding. Just something as simply as that.  The only real problem occurs when one party is -if you will- 'out-logic-ed' and then refuses to yeild.   i.e. the sore loser.

please think about what I have said for I believe I am correct (here we go again)

[Gabi]

I've been thinking of a way to word that better all the way home. I'm not sure I've come up with the best way yet, but here it goes.

Destina, please, do not take every post that doesn't exactly match your own views as a personal attack, because it's not. People will often not agree with you on something and still have nothing personal against you.

What I was trying to say was that you shouldn't take everything to the extreme. Sometimes I feel that you have the answer to someone else's post ready in your mind before that post is even written. Those things happen a lot when people are angry, but there's no reason to be angry all the time. Things tend to work out better when people take the time to think carefully about what the other person is trying to say (not just what you think he or she would say), and about how to express themselves without hurting the other.

You're true to yourself, and I value that, but there's a difference between that and having unshakable views about everything. Of course you don't have to agree with everyone all the time. You don't even have to agree with anyone at any time, but this isn't about agreeing or disagreeing. It's about disqualifying others just because they don't think like you. That and, while it's true that we all think we're right, that doesn't mean that everyone else is wrong and the fact that there are different opinions on most issues generally makes it a good idea to review all of them carefully. Maybe we can all learn something.

Your posts always leave me thinking. That's another thing I like. But they always come with a tint of anger that makes me feel bad. You can't seem to get any peace and I wish I could help you, but I don't know how. So far whenever I tried to say something to you, you took it the wrong way. And I can't shake the feeling you may even take this post as an attack. Sometimes what you expect to hear is so deeply engraved in your mind that you hear it even when that's not what is meant.

Basically, all I'm asking you to do is to understand that everyone you talk to is a person, just like you. That he or she may be right or wrong, or anything in between, and that so can you; and that whatever the truth is it doesn't make either of you any better or worse. Do voice your opinions, but not with such extreme unshakability. Leave room for other thoughts, and for other people.

...And after all this I think llearch still said it better than I did and with much fewer words, but I needed to go into detail, to get it off my chase and just in case it may help, which I hope it does.

Now for Density D., sorry for being annoying. Just exactly what did I do to annoy you?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

At the moment (for now) I think that llearch, Zina, Destina Faroda, and Gabi are the most annoying people on the face of the earth.

Woot! I'm winning! :-)


(incidentally, I suspect this particular topic is getting worn out, and we should probably pack it in - certainly I'm running out of useful things to say. However, if you have useful things to say, in a calm, non-threatening manner, I'm willing to let it continue. It's been good so far, let's not ruin it. *grin* Besides, everyone is being cordial, so no reason to silence anyone yet...)

[Tiny crested flint]

Now for Density D., sorry for being annoying. Just exactly what did I do to annoy you?

WHOOSH! Straight Over Your Head!
Re-read the first part and notice that ,technically, I just said you were a grand master of logic and understanding.


Wait! Please, don't pack in anything just yet. This discussion is the coolest thing ever right now because it seems the topic of discussion has slowly switched over to the methods and practices used in argument and debate. In other words we are discussing the art of discussion! If that's not higher level thinking, I don't know what is.
    *getting frenzied* Pretty soon we'll begin to analyze what causes us to use said methods, which will cause all who are involved to engage in deep soul-searching, followed by realization (of what I don't know yet), acceptance of new discovery, then even more debate on how this new truth fits into the World and the Grand Scheme, and all of this will build and build until...
NIRVANA and TOTAL INNER PEEEEEEEEAAAAAACE‼ *foams at mouth*

[bill]

NIRVANA and TOTAL INNER PEEEEEEEEAAAAAACE‼ *foams at mouth*

I prefer Soundgarden and Pearl Jam. 

[Alondro]

Incase you haven't guessed, I'm of slavic origin.

  A dirt farming vampire in our midst!   

I'm French!  And Italian!  And German!  And Dutch!  And a little Irish... and a little teensy bit Jewish... and prolly half a dozen other things thrown in for good measure.

Mutt-man.   

[Gabi]

Oh, yes, I share your thoughts about metadiscussion, Density D. And thanks for the compliment.