the sadist is going bye-bye, Permanently!

[KarlOmega1]

You guys might want to take a look at this article...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15567363/?GT1=8717

[xHaZxMaTx]

Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

[bill]

It's the Iraqi court, not an American court. Hanging is illegal in Texas, though they still use firing squad in Ohio.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Orly?  Hmm, guess I should look into things more before I open my mouth.  But still, hanging is like, "WTF?"

[bill]

It doesn't surprise me that hanging is legal in Iraq, to be honest. Personally, I'd choose to be hung over the Chair.

[DigitalMan]

Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.

[Sid]

Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.

And this is... less sadistic?

I'm no fan of Hussein, but I'm even less of a fan of the death sentence. And I'm EVEN less of a fan of turning death into entertainment.

No offense to anybody in this thread, though. It's just that I'm halfway certain that the image of Hussein's dangling body will be televised nation-wide. With the national anthem playing in the background and Bush giving some sort of "Mission accomplished, we won and peace is as good as ensured. Vote Republican in 2k8!" speech. </bitter>

[xHaZxMaTx]

[concurs]

Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.

And this is... less sadistic?

I'm no fan of Hussein, but I'm even less of a fan of the death sentence. And I'm EVEN less of a fan of turning death into entertainment.

No offense to anybody in this thread, though. It's just that I'm halfway certain that the image of Hussein's dangling body will be televised nation-wide. With the national anthem playing in the background and Bush giving some sort of "Mission accomplished, we won and peace is as good as ensured. Vote Republican in 2k8!" speech. </bitter>

[/concurs]

[Tapewolf]

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.

And this is... less sadistic?

I'm no fan of Hussein, but I'm even less of a fan of the death sentence. And I'm EVEN less of a fan of turning death into entertainment.

Quite so.  I'll be charitable and assume he was joking, and not hoping to turn the clock back almost 140 years.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The worst problem with the death sentence is...

... where do you draw the line? At what point can you say with 100% certainty that any particular person is guilty beyond all doubt?

And how do you ensure that all the -other- people who get to decide the same thing have the moral fiber to stand up to the same ethical level, assuming you can resolve the previous query?

It's a tough call. Putting someone in jail for the term of their natural lives, whilst hard and tough and expensive, at least gives you the option to say, later "well, we messed up, and you're actually innocent. Oops. Can you forgive us?" - saying that to a corpse is taking the piss a little, no?

[Gareeku]

Personally i think death is almost like an easy way out; Saddam won't be rotting in a cell where he is forced to think over the terrible things he did. Also, I agree totally with what Llearch said.

[DigitalMan]

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.

And this is... less sadistic?

I'm no fan of Hussein, but I'm even less of a fan of the death sentence. And I'm EVEN less of a fan of turning death into entertainment.

Quite so.  I'll be charitable and assume he was joking, and not hoping to turn the clock back almost 140 years.

You are indeed mostly correct. I'm certainly not the kind of person to be laughing giddily as anyone dies. And a broadcast would be a bad idea, though I know some soldiers who would love to see it.

Gareeku has a point. That I would be pointing and laughing at, at least a little bit. Though more in the case of attempted suicide bombers than Saddam. Fission mailed!

Interestingly, he'll probably die within a month. Here in America, it takes decades before we actually execute someone; hell, it's not uncommon for people to grow old and die waiting.

As a side note... celebratory gunfire is an incredibly stupid idea...

[Fresnor]

Only complaint I have about this, is that this incident will be replayed over and over, and probably even be jokes made long afterwards, and probably by some of the same people that complain about anything making light of the Steve Irwin incident.  Granted hey aren't the same cercumstances, but they are both still people, and if you can't say anything appropriate about them, you should just let the incident pass alowing him to vanish into history.  No need to keep his memory fresh any more than you have to.

[Alondro]

I have no problem with the death penalty, so long as it's carefully used.  There are certain crimes that must receive the maximum punishment possible.  In has nothing to do with deterrants, it has to do with the fact that a person took away the right of another person to live for some sick purpose, in which case the only punishment that repays that action is death for the murderer.  Many people think rotting in jail is a worse enough punishment.  But that is because the people who think that way do not have the twisted minds of those who generally commit the types of crimes I consider bad enough to warrent the death penalty.  These people are often psychopaths and sociopaths.  As long as they have the satisfaction of eliminating their target, they're pleased with themselves.  It's almost beyond the imagination of those who've not seen these types of  people that such evil can exist.  The worst of the worst live only to kill, and some have even said very plainly that they only think about getting out to kill again.  Compassion must give way to justice, for those slain, and for protection of the public from those who would gladly kill them if given the chance. 

In the case of Saddam, there is no trace of doubt that they're executing a cold-blooded killer.  The accounts of his actions fill volumes, though his sons would have been worse had they succeeded him.  One, in particular, used to shoot people on the street who he thought looked at him in a bad way.  As for the method of death, it depends on exactly how they do the hanging.  If done properly, death can actually be rather quick, snapping the spinal cord at the level of the cervical vertebrae, in which paralysis is instantaneous and death can also occur instantly (if the medulla is torn or crushed) or within 30-60 seconds.  If not, it can be a slow and gruesome death as was the case with many impromptue hangings in the Old West.

There are plenty of cases in which you know beyond the shadow of a doubt a person in guilty:  Jeffry Dahmer... he had frozen body parts of his victims in his freezer... what more do you want?  Or if you have a video made by a group of Satanists conducting human sacrifice with their faces clearly visible?  That's pretty friggin solid evidence.  Or you have the... genetic information... of a rapist found on the bodies of several female victims raped and murdered.  In those cases, the odds that the info is wrong is virtually to completely zero.

I feel the evidence for the death penalty verdict must be solidly physical.  If the case relies too much on cirumstantial evidence and physical evidence is weak of lacking, the punishment can go no higher than life in prison, because of the chance that the evidence was misleading.  Scott Peterson is a perfect example of this.  It sure looks like he was guilty.  He was caught in lies that implicated him, he acted like a total scumbag.  But the evidence wasn't concrete, it wasn't 100% flawless and it wasn't absolutely damning.  In his case, life in prison would be the most I could agree to.

[Netami]

Life in prison is a more fitting fate. Why not keep him around to see how well Democracy does for Iraq? Why not, in 30 years, show him a more stable and happy society than he could have ever provided? Is that not a greater punishment to a man who was all about ego? I think the easy answer is that Iraq isn't going to change any time soon and Saddam will go out in the same hateful way that has, and will continue to, fuel that area of the world for a long, long time.

[lucas marcone]

... where do you draw the line? At what point can you say with 100% certainty that any particular person is guilty beyond all doubt?

im pretty sure that saddam is guilty.

Posted by: ×HaZ×MaT×  Posted on: Today at 05:39:56 PM 
Insert Quote 
[concurs]
Quote from: Sid on Today at 05:37:42 PM
Quote from: DigitalMan on Today at 05:32:11 PM
Quote from: ×HaZ×MaT× on Today at 04:59:42 PM
Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

It's an entertaining execution. Hopefully it'll be caught on tape. No, HD-digital. Multi-angle.


And this is... less sadistic?

I'm no fan of Hussein, but I'm even less of a fan of the death sentence. And I'm EVEN less of a fan of turning death into entertainment.

No offense to anybody in this thread, though. It's just that I'm halfway certain that the image of Hussein's dangling body will be televised nation-wide. With the national anthem playing in the background and Bush giving some sort of "Mission accomplished, we won and peace is as good as ensured. Vote Republican in 2k8!" speech. </bitter>

[/concurs] 

when a man has killed so many and without remorse im pretty sure its better to kill him than let him rot in a prison eating tax dollers, and after all is said and done with someone so "evil" its ok to enjoy him dangleing from a small rope...   /self ritious speech   register democrat but vote independent in 2K8

[KarlOmega1]

Ok, I seem to have stirred up a controversy...and when did Steve Irwin become part of the discussion?

Here's a fact:

Saddam commited Genocide on the locals (example- Kurds)...Shouldn't he be executed for that?

[Gareeku]

Executing Saddam is no better that what he did, in my opnion. Its stooping to his level.

[Cogidubnus]

Executing Saddam is no better that what he did, in my opnion. Its stooping to his level.

Not so much. One could not stoop to his level without mass murder. This is, however, a good point.

   Is it right to kill a killer? Is killing not what we rail against when we sentence them?

   The death penalty is not designed to be a way of 'getting back', necessarily. Certainly, that is a part of it. Justice is inherently a balancing of the scales. But, It's also a statement - one may do this much, and no more. It's a line in the sand, the level of no more tolerance. Wether or not that is a correct sentiment, it is the reason for a death penalty. 

[Vidar]

Was there ever any doubt that Saddam would get the death-penalty? Just about everyone in Iraq and their grandma want to see him dead.

[Zedd]

I hope the devil has a warm baked colon...Cause thats where he's going!

[Manawolf]

I just saw this messed up musical last week for film class, which ending with the female lead being hanged...in middle North America.  The film was made in 2000, and it doesn't say when it takes place, heck, by the looks of it could be as early as the 1950s, but still, hanging?  A lot of the students were looking at each other when that death sentence came up.

Just the term "Hung until dead" is rather behind our times.

[King Of Hearts]

I do hope they go trough with the hanging.

I find it an interesting subject as Saddam is poised to be a high profile sovereign that is to receive the sentence of death. A Landmark occurence in modern times, I was rather dissapointed that Slobadan Milosevic died while undergoing trial so his case was not a definitive precedent on whether the law shall be laid down.

History shall judge what this occurence will espouse.

[xHaZxMaTx]

Woohoo, controversial!  I'm out, lataz peeps!

[RJ]

< ignores everyone's opinions for a brief minute so she can post her own unbiased opinion >

There's a good side and a bad side to this: one is that we'll be rid of a man who hurt a lot of innocent people; and two is that we'll be rid of a man who stopped a lot of guilty people.

And then there's the fact that there's still loyalists out there, and I really do hope they don't decide to take action...

I'm not surprised by the hanging sentence. If anything it sounds a little strange to me, considering other sentences include hands getting chopped off thieves, and people being strung up to die just before soccer players go out onto the field to play.

[DigitalMan]

Good, good. I'm quite pleased to be the most violent thinker here... I think the death sentence should be extended to cover more crimes, like rape. But that's why I'll never be granted such control.

Life in prison is a more fitting fate. Why not keep him around to see how well Democracy does for Iraq? Why not, in 30 years, show him a more stable and happy society than he could have ever provided? Is that not a greater punishment to a man who was all about ego? I think the easy answer is that Iraq isn't going to change any time soon and Saddam will go out in the same hateful way that has, and will continue to, fuel that area of the world for a long, long time.

Does his ego really involve the happiness of his people? I'm pretty sure he'd just shrug and say, "So what?"

[Tapewolf]

Good, good. I'm quite pleased to be the most violent thinker here... I think the death sentence should be extended to cover more crimes, like rape.

Or speeding, since traffic accidents are the #1 cause of death in the US (and probably Britain too).  If all speeders were summarily executed at the roadside, it would only be them who die, not their passengers or the car/bicycle/pedestrian they would otherwise run into.

Your homework for this week is to read A Gift From Earth by Larry Niven.

[Alan Garou]

Yeah, I heard.  I can't beieve they're going to hang him, though.  That's not execution, that's entertainment.  Then again, Bush is from Texas.

Hey, I resent that, y'all! (Just kidding) And the war's length will be completely unaffected by this.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Your homework for this week is to read A Gift From Earth by Larry Niven.

.. and not A World of Ptaavs ?

[RJ]

Personally i think death is almost like an easy way out; Saddam won't be rotting in a cell where he is forced to think over the terrible things he did. Also, I agree totally with what Llearch said.

I don't really see Saddam as the kind to think over all the "terrible" things he's done... the guy was completely an ass during trial and from what I've seen, he pretty much refused to acknowledge most of the evidence that came up against him.