2018-06-11 [DMFA#1844] - Parental disapproval

[Tapewolf]

Dan may have forgotten that he is talking to a Creature at a Creature party and he himself is a Creature.

[Titanium Dragon]

Regina is really not the sharpest tool in the shed. She's very fortunate she didn't blunder into Dan otherwise, as otherwise she would be very, very dead, even before he became a full-fledged incubus.

Of course, all of this just reiterates what monsters many creatures are - Regina doesn't really seem to care all that much about what she did, nor attach any importance to making amends for it in any way. Also points out why many wouldn't really care much for demons.

[MT Hazard]

Dan may have forgotten that he is talking to a Creature at a Creature party and he himself is a Creature.

He does tend to use the terms 'creatures' and 'Demons' interchangeably, something he's going to have to get out of the habit of. As for not thinking of himself as a creature, he has spend 25 years thinking of himself as a being, going to be hard habit to break.

[Kenku]

Dan may have forgotten that he is talking to a Creature at a Creature party and he himself is a Creature.

He does tend to use the terms 'creatures' and 'Demons' interchangeably, something he's going to have to get out of the habit of. As for not thinking of himself as a creature, he has spend 25 years thinking of himself as a being, going to be hard habit to break.

Added to it, his pledge was simply to make amends and alot has happened just in comic time.

[Sabreur]

Oy.

When this story arc started, I figured the plot was headed for some kind of redemption arc for Regina. The whole split-panel Dan's story vs Regina's story thing made me pretty confident I knew what was going to happen next. The story would demonstrate that the two are not so different after all, the whole thing would turn out to be a big misunderstanding, etc. Turns out, nope! She's still an incredibly horrible person that needs to die in a fire. Seriously, I get that the first kill was an accident, but... wow. Dan treated Regina to an awkward date. Regina treated him to a trail of bodies that included his friend's mother, and the best excuse Regina's got is that she reflexively swings at people with enough force to kill a being.

I could still maybe accept her side of things if she showed a shred of compassion or remorse, which it looked like she might in #1842. NOPE! She's upset - because her dad was mad at her and she got grounded from going on rampages. Seriously, what the hell? I keep having to remind myself that she was raised to think killing beings is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged (like how "going on a rampage" is treated as a privilege to be taken away as a punishment). But even if that explains her attitude, it doesn't really excuse it. She's still a damned loon and a danger to any being around her.

From a story perspective, I am still pretty impressed that the whole "Adventurers Vs Creatures" thing has been expanded upon instead of retconned out of existence. It's an interesting look at just how messed-up a world would need to be for "Adventurer" to be a respected career instead of violent sociopathy. I'm also impressed that the story hasn't taken the "pacifism solves everything" route. Don't get me wrong, nobody can call the current state of paranoid xenophobia a good thing. But the story understands that conflicts don't just go away, and the current situation is a believable result of powerful creatures treating beings as not deserving to exist.

[Tapewolf]

He does tend to use the terms 'creatures' and 'Demons' interchangeably, something he's going to have to get out of the habit of. As for not thinking of himself as a creature, he has spend 25 years thinking of himself as a being, going to be hard habit to break.

True, it would be less believable if he didn't make the occasional slip.

I could still maybe accept her side of things if she showed a shred of compassion or remorse, which it looked like she might in #1842. NOPE! She's upset - because her dad was mad at her and she got grounded from going on rampages. Seriously, what the hell? I keep having to remind myself that she was raised to think killing beings is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged (like how "going on a rampage" is treated as a privilege to be taken away as a punishment). But even if that explains her attitude, it doesn't really excuse it. She's still a damned loon and a danger to any being around her.

Yeah, she's definitely the product of her environment.  As you say, pacifism isn't going to solve this problem, but if you can take away the encouragement things should at least improve in the long haul.  And I have to think, from the perspective of say, Hizell, that if you could keep stirring that pot, keep the Demons and Beings at each other's throats, they're never going to be able to threaten your place at the top of the tree.

[Tuyu]

Dan may have forgotten that he is talking to a Creature at a Creature party and he himself is a Creature.

He does tend to use the terms 'creatures' and 'Demons' interchangeably, something he's going to have to get out of the habit of.

I don't think he means "demon" when he says "creature" in the current comic. He certainly hasn't restricted his enmity to them. Demons and 'cubi have just been the most available "monster" types for him to go up against. Mab is an exception. Mattie's never been anything but nice, plus she's cute, but he's fought others of her kind. He's still not entirely trusting of Pyro. Etc.

[e_voyager]

At the rate Dan is going in two or three hundred years he may wind up one of those angry at the world types

[Sabreur]

At the rate Dan is going in two or three hundred years he may wind up one of those angry at the world types

I think part of that is running into Regina. She seems to bring that out in people, even without murdering their friends.

On a more serious note, I get what you're saying. I don't think Dan will go off the deep end, though. He's got a lot of good people supporting him, and while he has his flaws he's fundamentally a decent person.

[Jasonrevall]

Dan may have forgotten that he is talking to a Creature at a Creature party and he himself is a Creature.

Well there are humans that say a very similar thing about other humans. In other fiction Batman in particular thinks humans are violent and doesn't trust them not to betray him and if you go by the life stealing monsterfied superman storyline I'm pretty sure everyone at some point even does betray him so. Life can be cruel and people sometimes give up and just declare that their entire people suck. It's not really that much of a stretch to me that some creatures think of other creatures as incapable of breaking free of their natures and being decent people despite not coming to terms that they themselves are in fact creatures or maybe they have and just expect themselves to lose it someday and do something horrible. Some humans feel that way too that humans inevitably hurt one another and they too will inevitably hurt someone irreversibly.

Sorry if I went a little too deep there I just found this page interesting.

[The One Guy]

At the rate Dan is going in two or three hundred years he may wind up one of those angry at the world types

Well, remember that this was a vow he made a long time ago; he's been getting better recently.

[Eboreg]

Oy.

When this story arc started, I figured the plot was headed for some kind of redemption arc for Regina. The whole split-panel Dan's story vs Regina's story thing made me pretty confident I knew what was going to happen next. The story would demonstrate that the two are not so different after all, the whole thing would turn out to be a big misunderstanding, etc. Turns out, nope! She's still an incredibly horrible person that needs to die in a fire. Seriously, I get that the first kill was an accident, but... wow. Dan treated Regina to an awkward date. Regina treated him to a trail of bodies that included his friend's mother, and the best excuse Regina's got is that she reflexively swings at people with enough force to kill a being.

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

[CamKitty]

No Regina, no jokes after that story.

Oy.

What a terrible person

[keybounce]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

[Jasonrevall]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

Dan never assaulted her and you two are confusing your manslaughters. It would be criminally negligent manslaughter due to her recklessness and in fact every single action that ended a life after that would be considered either straight up murder or more criminally negligent manslaughter. Either way its all homicide and the only legal system that defends it is a legal system that lets you pay a fine if you murder or rape someone like the one they apparently have in furrae. From the perspective of any place where law is actually attempting in some form to legitimately be just and that isn't straight up facism or in the grip of tyranny there is no defending what Regina did.

[Nightmask]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

Dan never assaulted her and you two are confusing your manslaughters. It would be criminally negligent manslaughter due to her recklessness and in fact every single action that ended a life after that would be considered either straight up murder or more criminally negligent manslaughter. Either way its all homicide and the only legal system that defends it is a legal system that lets you pay a fine if you murder or rape someone like the one they apparently have in furrae. From the perspective of any place where law is actually attempting in some form to legitimately be just and that isn't straight up facism or in the grip of tyranny there is no defending what Regina did.

I'm not really sold on that.  Dan reaching for Regina could be seen as provocation and a threat and justify her slashing him as she did.  It also provides mitigation that she thought the second time she was also slashing at Dan and had no actual intent to kill.  What came after seems more like self-defense since we do know that their society being as it is a demon walking around with blood on its claws is going to automatically be subjected to lethal attacks without any opportunity to explain things.  She could have just fought off another demon that tried to rape her and they'd have still been trying to kill her just for having blood on her.  Dan himself can expect people to randomly try and murder him just for being a cubi if/when it becomes known to others (remember Mink's mother, a loving and gentle soul, was murdered by someone just for being a cubi and people cheered the adventurer that did it).  So you really can't fault Regina for wanting to stay alive when people were trying to kill her on sight with no idea what had actually happened.  So while she's on the hook for accidentally killing Wildy's mom the rest of the killings were self-defense.

[Shakal]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

Dan never assaulted her and you two are confusing your manslaughters. It would be criminally negligent manslaughter due to her recklessness and in fact every single action that ended a life after that would be considered either straight up murder or more criminally negligent manslaughter. Either way its all homicide and the only legal system that defends it is a legal system that lets you pay a fine if you murder or rape someone like the one they apparently have in furrae. From the perspective of any place where law is actually attempting in some form to legitimately be just and that isn't straight up facism or in the grip of tyranny there is no defending what Regina did.

I'm not really sold on that.  Dan reaching for Regina could be seen as provocation and a threat and justify her slashing him as she did.  It also provides mitigation that she thought the second time she was also slashing at Dan and had no actual intent to kill.  What came after seems more like self-defense since we do know that their society being as it is a demon walking around with blood on its claws is going to automatically be subjected to lethal attacks without any opportunity to explain things.  She could have just fought off another demon that tried to rape her and they'd have still been trying to kill her just for having blood on her.  Dan himself can expect people to randomly try and murder him just for being a cubi if/when it becomes known to others (remember Mink's mother, a loving and gentle soul, was murdered by someone just for being a cubi and people cheered the adventurer that did it).  So you really can't fault Regina for wanting to stay alive when people were trying to kill her on sight with no idea what had actually happened.  So while she's on the hook for accidentally killing Wildy's mom the rest of the killings were self-defense.

Sorry, but my read on this just doesn't match up with yours concerning the attacks on both Dan and Wildy's mom. In http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1840.php both of them remember Dan's arms being up, not stretched out. He's not reaching for her, and BOTH remember it this way. There's no reason for us to change this to him reaching out and grabbing her. Further she slices him with her right hand, moving forward, meaning she had to reach back and THEN swipe forward to get that motion, specifically reaching out to get in range to do so.

She was (understandably) uncomfortable with the situation and thus leaving, but that does not give her any justification for instigating physical violence. She believed Dan to be a being, she felt no actual danger from him, so there was nothing for her to be defending herself from. Had he grabbed her, run in front of her to bar her way, maybe, but she specifically extended herself to physically assault someone.

With Wildy's mom, Regina was staring at Dan when she felt Wildy's mom touch her, so she knew it wasn't him. In her own words, she was so hopped up on adrenaline that she slashed at the one behind her without any thought beyond that. She didn't know who they were, she killed them without cause. Yes, without intent, so it's manslaughter instead of murder.

Finally when it comes to the adventurers, again in her own words, "It wasn't a time for peaceful negotiations." There's no way to know how things would have turned out, but if we map this onto as similar a situation as we can in our own world, someone just assaulted and bloodied one person, accidentally killed another, and then ran into the police, we don't usually consider any cops they kill to be in 'self defense', even if both sides are shooting.

[Genesis]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

Dan never assaulted her and you two are confusing your manslaughters. It would be criminally negligent manslaughter due to her recklessness and in fact every single action that ended a life after that would be considered either straight up murder or more criminally negligent manslaughter. Either way its all homicide and the only legal system that defends it is a legal system that lets you pay a fine if you murder or rape someone like the one they apparently have in furrae. From the perspective of any place where law is actually attempting in some form to legitimately be just and that isn't straight up facism or in the grip of tyranny there is no defending what Regina did.

I'm not really sold on that.  Dan reaching for Regina could be seen as provocation and a threat and justify her slashing him as she did.  It also provides mitigation that she thought the second time she was also slashing at Dan and had no actual intent to kill.  What came after seems more like self-defense since we do know that their society being as it is a demon walking around with blood on its claws is going to automatically be subjected to lethal attacks without any opportunity to explain things.  She could have just fought off another demon that tried to rape her and they'd have still been trying to kill her just for having blood on her.  Dan himself can expect people to randomly try and murder him just for being a cubi if/when it becomes known to others (remember Mink's mother, a loving and gentle soul, was murdered by someone just for being a cubi and people cheered the adventurer that did it).  So you really can't fault Regina for wanting to stay alive when people were trying to kill her on sight with no idea what had actually happened.  So while she's on the hook for accidentally killing Wildy's mom the rest of the killings were self-defense.

Sorry, but my read on this just doesn't match up with yours concerning the attacks on both Dan and Wildy's mom. In http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1840.php both of them remember Dan's arms being up, not stretched out. He's not reaching for her, and BOTH remember it this way. There's no reason for us to change this to him reaching out and grabbing her. Further she slices him with her right hand, moving forward, meaning she had to reach back and THEN swipe forward to get that motion, specifically reaching out to get in range to do so.

She was (understandably) uncomfortable with the situation and thus leaving, but that does not give her any justification for instigating physical violence. She believed Dan to be a being, she felt no actual danger from him, so there was nothing for her to be defending herself from. Had he grabbed her, run in front of her to bar her way, maybe, but she specifically extended herself to physically assault someone.

With Wildy's mom, Regina was staring at Dan when she felt Wildy's mom touch her, so she knew it wasn't him. In her own words, she was so hopped up on adrenaline that she slashed at the one behind her without any thought beyond that. She didn't know who they were, she killed them without cause. Yes, without intent, so it's manslaughter instead of murder.

Finally when it comes to the adventurers, again in her own words, "It wasn't a time for peaceful negotiations." There's no way to know how things would have turned out, but if we map this onto as similar a situation as we can in our own world, someone just assaulted and bloodied one person, accidentally killed another, and then ran into the police, we don't usually consider any cops they kill to be in 'self defense', even if both sides are shooting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she knew for a fact that dan wasn't a being, and thus would be (relatively) fine, since he just told her his mother is a "tamed" creature.

Plus it's pretty clear demons have Hilariously strong flight or fight responses, and quite tilted to fight at that, so walking up behind one that's clearly agitated and touching her is like sneaking up on and poking a lion and expecting not to get you insides, outside.

And I'm pretty sure the adventurers are completely unofficial correct? As in they have no legal jurisdiction to try to kill her.

Edit: I'm not saying Regina is faultless, but there are mitigating factors at work.

[Shakal]

On the other hand, someone guilty of 12 murders deserves the needle. Someone guilty of 2 cases of assault, 1 case of manslaughter, and 11 cases of self-defense deserves a significantly lighter punishment like a hefty prison sentence or a lashing if prisons aren't really a thing yet.

Now lower it to one case of accidental manslaughter, throw in mitigating circumstances (specifically, that first case of assault was in response to being assaulted; the 2nd case of assault plus accidental manslaughter was while being on edge and expecting another assault coming in, plus the other person being unexpectedly made of paper), and add in a non-adult actor, and it should be even less.

Really though, this is the key thing. Dan thinks Regina did 12 acts of intentional murder; Regina thought it was one case of accident, and 11 cases of self-defense.

Dan never assaulted her and you two are confusing your manslaughters. It would be criminally negligent manslaughter due to her recklessness and in fact every single action that ended a life after that would be considered either straight up murder or more criminally negligent manslaughter. Either way its all homicide and the only legal system that defends it is a legal system that lets you pay a fine if you murder or rape someone like the one they apparently have in furrae. From the perspective of any place where law is actually attempting in some form to legitimately be just and that isn't straight up facism or in the grip of tyranny there is no defending what Regina did.

I'm not really sold on that.  Dan reaching for Regina could be seen as provocation and a threat and justify her slashing him as she did.  It also provides mitigation that she thought the second time she was also slashing at Dan and had no actual intent to kill.  What came after seems more like self-defense since we do know that their society being as it is a demon walking around with blood on its claws is going to automatically be subjected to lethal attacks without any opportunity to explain things.  She could have just fought off another demon that tried to rape her and they'd have still been trying to kill her just for having blood on her.  Dan himself can expect people to randomly try and murder him just for being a cubi if/when it becomes known to others (remember Mink's mother, a loving and gentle soul, was murdered by someone just for being a cubi and people cheered the adventurer that did it).  So you really can't fault Regina for wanting to stay alive when people were trying to kill her on sight with no idea what had actually happened.  So while she's on the hook for accidentally killing Wildy's mom the rest of the killings were self-defense.

Sorry, but my read on this just doesn't match up with yours concerning the attacks on both Dan and Wildy's mom. In http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_1840.php both of them remember Dan's arms being up, not stretched out. He's not reaching for her, and BOTH remember it this way. There's no reason for us to change this to him reaching out and grabbing her. Further she slices him with her right hand, moving forward, meaning she had to reach back and THEN swipe forward to get that motion, specifically reaching out to get in range to do so.

She was (understandably) uncomfortable with the situation and thus leaving, but that does not give her any justification for instigating physical violence. She believed Dan to be a being, she felt no actual danger from him, so there was nothing for her to be defending herself from. Had he grabbed her, run in front of her to bar her way, maybe, but she specifically extended herself to physically assault someone.

With Wildy's mom, Regina was staring at Dan when she felt Wildy's mom touch her, so she knew it wasn't him. In her own words, she was so hopped up on adrenaline that she slashed at the one behind her without any thought beyond that. She didn't know who they were, she killed them without cause. Yes, without intent, so it's manslaughter instead of murder.

Finally when it comes to the adventurers, again in her own words, "It wasn't a time for peaceful negotiations." There's no way to know how things would have turned out, but if we map this onto as similar a situation as we can in our own world, someone just assaulted and bloodied one person, accidentally killed another, and then ran into the police, we don't usually consider any cops they kill to be in 'self defense', even if both sides are shooting.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but she knew for a fact that dan wasn't a being, and thus would be (relatively) fine, since he just told her his mother is a "tamed" creature.

Plus it's pretty clear demons have Hilariously strong flight or fight responses, and quite tilted to fight at that, so walking up behind one that's clearly agitated and touching her is like sneaking up on and poking a lion and expecting not to get you insides, outside.

And I'm pretty sure the adventurers are completely unofficial correct? As in they have no legal jurisdiction to try to kill her.

Edit: I'm not saying Regina is faultless, but there are mitigating factors at work.

She knew one of Dan's parents was a being, and being/creature crossbreeds are notably weaker then their pure creature counterparts (excepting Cubi, as Cubi don't really do halfbreeds so much as fully one or the other). If he's a cubi, he's headwingless and so as weak as a normal being. If he was a half-angel or the like, he would be bar weaker then her. ANd again, he was not reaching for her, not starting to cast a spell, not attacking her in any way. Given this strength discrepancy, this would be like asking how badly a child would have to yell at you for it to be OK to cut up their arm with a knife (what she did with her claws). He was both not threatening and of no threat to her. And she didn't appear at all surprised that Dan went down like a sack of potatoes, so seems like that's the way she saw the situation too.

If Regina was not clearly sentient, then the analogy with the lion would be more apt. She is a thinking being, and responsible for her actions.

As for the adventurers, they absolutely seem to be official, organized, and an established part of the being communities as well as part of the fundamental framework of being/creature relations. Remember all of the talk and negotiation when the adventurers came for Abel. We don't really have a fully correct analog for them in normal society, as we don't have setups where one set of laws applies to one group, who are tried and sentenced by their peers, and another group likewise doing the same, and as a result one group routinely and casually slaughters the other for little to no reason. One way or another, whether you map them onto the police, the military, or a neighborhood watch group, "Well, they're angry I killed someone, so I'm justified killing more of them." is never an acceptable justification. If someone came into my house and killed my husband, they would't be able to justify then killing me as self-defense.

I'm sorry if I seem to be being overly harsh here, but I consider the mitigating factors brought up to be irrelevant. If "I got uncomfortable, then angry" can be considered at all justification for assault, manslaughter, and murder... well, that's the kind  of thinking that gets adventurer's guilds created.

[Dishonored]

I'm sorry if I seem to be being overly harsh here, but I consider the mitigating factors brought up to be irrelevant. If "I got uncomfortable, then angry" can be considered at all justification for assault, manslaughter, and murder... well, that's the kind  of thinking that gets adventurer's guilds created.

Well said.

[Nightmask]

She knew one of Dan's parents was a being, and being/creature crossbreeds are notably weaker then their pure creature counterparts (excepting Cubi, as Cubi don't really do halfbreeds so much as fully one or the other). If he's a cubi, he's headwingless and so as weak as a normal being. If he was a half-angel or the like, he would be bar weaker then her. ANd again, he was not reaching for her, not starting to cast a spell, not attacking her in any way. Given this strength discrepancy, this would be like asking how badly a child would have to yell at you for it to be OK to cut up their arm with a knife (what she did with her claws). He was both not threatening and of no threat to her. And she didn't appear at all surprised that Dan went down like a sack of potatoes, so seems like that's the way she saw the situation too.

If Regina was not clearly sentient, then the analogy with the lion would be more apt. She is a thinking being, and responsible for her actions.

As for the adventurers, they absolutely seem to be official, organized, and an established part of the being communities as well as part of the fundamental framework of being/creature relations. Remember all of the talk and negotiation when the adventurers came for Abel. We don't really have a fully correct analog for them in normal society, as we don't have setups where one set of laws applies to one group, who are tried and sentenced by their peers, and another group likewise doing the same, and as a result one group routinely and casually slaughters the other for little to no reason. One way or another, whether you map them onto the police, the military, or a neighborhood watch group, "Well, they're angry I killed someone, so I'm justified killing more of them." is never an acceptable justification. If someone came into my house and killed my husband, they would't be able to justify then killing me as self-defense.

I'm sorry if I seem to be being overly harsh here, but I consider the mitigating factors brought up to be irrelevant. If "I got uncomfortable, then angry" can be considered at all justification for assault, manslaughter, and murder... well, that's the kind  of thinking that gets adventurer's guilds created.

Pretty sure if random strangers try to kill you for no other reason than you've got some blood on you and aren't the same race you've every reason to defend yourself, because you're miss-representing things there with Regina.  They weren't 'angry I killed someone' they were 'oh look a demon with blood on them, that's good enough reason to kill it without finding out what happened.'  In the face of people looking to kill her without any idea what had happened Regina certainly had a right to defend herself, because we know the Adventurers generally have a 'just kill it' attitude towards demons and other creatures with no care at all whether or not they actually deserve it.  The adventurers that Destania set on the inn had no problems talking about finding any excuse to kill the cubi that they heard about, later we saw their response to a loving, devoted family man cubi being murdered was to shrug and circular file it because he wasn't a being.  Neither side is sweet and innocent here, certainly the 'eh who cares what happened just kill them' attitude doesn't encourage demons or other creatures to want to trust beings.  You also have the unreasonable idea that Regina should have just let herself be killed (because she had NO option defend herself in any kind of court besides vigilante court) rather than defend herself, because that's what she did defend herself at that point.  However much she did wrong she deserved a trial not vigilante execution.

[Genesis]

I'm not saying Regina is blameless, she definitely deserves to be convicted of manslaughter, but it was a bad situation in pretty much every possible way.

1st: Dan dragged her to a strangers house, then started preaching at her, and choosing his words... poorly, to say the least.

2nd: Regina DEFINITLY overreacted, but I'm pretty sure she knew it wasn't going to kill him.

3rd: Wildy's mum startled her while she was hopped up on adrenaline(which effects sentient being just as much as non-sentient) and had the misfortune of being short enough regina's likely intended to be chest height slash caught her in the face.

4th: Regina panicked and tried to cut and run instead of owning up to her actions.

5th: She ran into a group of adventurers, who would almost certainly have tried to kill her on sight, considering the blood.

In short everything that could have gone wrong, did, short of a dragon coming and sitting on the house, or Kria having shown up and ate everyone.

[Dishonored]

 Just to throw in my two cents. Most of the arguments I've seen are "Was Regina wrong to kill those people?"

The answer is yes. No matter what happened previously, no matter what they thought when she came running out of the house, it is clear from the comic that Regina never considered the third option: Running. There was nothing stopping her from simply fleeing. Perhaps they would have caught her, and she would have been forced to fight, perhaps not. I'd hazard a guess that at top speed a Demon could easily outrun most Beings if they really wanted to.

You can argue her mental state all you want, but she never considered the completely valid, easiest, least dangerous and destructive option that was open to her. Even if it was a simple heat of the moment decision, the fault still lies with her. Period.

[Shakal]

I'm not saying Regina is blameless, she definitely deserves to be convicted of manslaughter, but it was a bad situation in pretty much every possible way.

1st: Dan dragged her to a strangers house, then started preaching at her, and choosing his words... poorly, to say the least.

2nd: Regina DEFINITLY overreacted, but I'm pretty sure she knew it wasn't going to kill him.

3rd: Wildy's mum startled her while she was hopped up on adrenaline(which effects sentient being just as much as non-sentient) and had the misfortune of being short enough regina's likely intended to be chest height slash caught her in the face.

4th: Regina panicked and tried to cut and run instead of owning up to her actions.

5th: She ran into a group of adventurers, who would almost certainly have tried to kill her on sight, considering the blood.

In short everything that could have gone wrong, did, short of a dragon coming and sitting on the house, or Kria having shown up and ate everyone.

1. 100% in agreement here, Dan created an awkward and unnerving situation, Regina had every right to leave.

2. I've never posited she was trying to kill him, the way she reacted after Dan went down indicates the outcome was exactly what she wanted and expected. Hence violent assault, not attempted murder when it comes to Dan.

3. This is the definition of manslaughter, accidental, unintentional murder. She meant to hurt whoever was behind her, certainly (unless you're arguing she was literally insane and in no control of her actions). She didn't mean to kill Wildy's mom, and that's the only reason it's manslaughter, not 2nd degree murder. And just in case to jump ahead, if the argument then moves to 'Demons do go insane on adrenaline and can't control themselves, the discussion then has to move to whether we hold them accountable anyway, or if we don't, what is the reasonable response to defend yourself, your family, and your community upon seeing a demon that appears to have 'gone wild', as they apparently are unable to keep themselves from murdering at that point.

4. Regina running when she did is completely understandable. Would it have been more ethical to turn herself in to the authorities, certainly, but trying to just flee and NOT HURT ANYONE ELSE would have been completely reasonable (though the law still catching up with her is reasonable too).

5. Here we don't have all the details, but many previous questions come to a head here. As Regina is clearly angry, is she not in control of her actions, and as such the adventurers are completely within their rights of self and community defense to slaughter the mindlessly rampaging demon? We don't even know who in this altercation threw the first blow. We see the one of the adventurer's in drawing a sword, and another pointing, but Regina's dialogue indicates she was neither intent on de-escalating the situation, or just running, she was going to fight her way out. At that point as much as anything the Adventurers could be considered to having fought in their own defense. Especially considering that we only see 2, and from previous information we know she kills around a dozen in total in this 'rampage'.

[Shakal]

Just to throw in my two cents. Most of the arguments I've seen are "Was Regina wrong to kill those people?"

The answer is yes. No matter what happened previously, no matter what they thought when she came running out of the house, it is clear from the comic that Regina never considered the third option: Running. There was nothing stopping her from simply fleeing. Perhaps they would have caught her, and she would have been forced to fight, perhaps not. I'd hazard a guess that at top speed a Demon could easily outrun most Beings if they really wanted to.

You can argue her mental state all you want, but she never considered the completely valid, easiest, least dangerous and destructive option that was open to her. Even if it was a simple heat of the moment decision, the fault still lies with her. Period.

And even if a demon isn't faster on foot then adventuers, those wings aren't just for show. When one side of a fight is forced to work on the ground, just flying away is wonderfully effective at getting noone killed.

[Genesis]

Just to throw in my two cents. Most of the arguments I've seen are "Was Regina wrong to kill those people?"

The answer is yes. No matter what happened previously, no matter what they thought when she came running out of the house, it is clear from the comic that Regina never considered the third option: Running. There was nothing stopping her from simply fleeing. Perhaps they would have caught her, and she would have been forced to fight, perhaps not. I'd hazard a guess that at top speed a Demon could easily outrun most Beings if they really wanted to.

You can argue her mental state all you want, but she never considered the completely valid, easiest, least dangerous and destructive option that was open to her. Even if it was a simple heat of the moment decision, the fault still lies with her. Period.

Atleast one of them has a bow, possibly even a crossbow from the looks of those arrows, and they could both have magic at their disposal(not to mention the wings on the avian one), plus we don't know if there were more of them, or if she even had a path to run. Not to mention they were pretty clearly gearing up to attack her on sight.

Her killing wildy-mum was wrong, her defending herself from "adventurers" who attack her on sight? Short sighted perhaps, but not wholely unjustified.

Also we're all forgetting that Regina isn't exactly the brightest torch in the bundle.

[Genesis]

I'm not saying Regina is blameless, she definitely deserves to be convicted of manslaughter, but it was a bad situation in pretty much every possible way.

1st: Dan dragged her to a strangers house, then started preaching at her, and choosing his words... poorly, to say the least.

2nd: Regina DEFINITLY overreacted, but I'm pretty sure she knew it wasn't going to kill him.

3rd: Wildy's mum startled her while she was hopped up on adrenaline(which effects sentient being just as much as non-sentient) and had the misfortune of being short enough regina's likely intended to be chest height slash caught her in the face.

4th: Regina panicked and tried to cut and run instead of owning up to her actions.

5th: She ran into a group of adventurers, who would almost certainly have tried to kill her on sight, considering the blood.

In short everything that could have gone wrong, did, short of a dragon coming and sitting on the house, or Kria having shown up and ate everyone.

1. 100% in agreement here, Dan created an awkward and unnerving situation, Regina had every right to leave.

2. I've never posited she was trying to kill him, the way she reacted after Dan went down indicates the outcome was exactly what she wanted and expected. Hence violent assault, not attempted murder when it comes to Dan.

3. This is the definition of manslaughter, accidental, unintentional murder. She meant to hurt whoever was behind her, certainly (unless you're arguing she was literally insane and in no control of her actions). She didn't mean to kill Wildy's mom, and that's the only reason it's manslaughter, not 2nd degree murder. And just in case to jump ahead, if the argument then moves to 'Demons do go insane on adrenaline and can't control themselves, the discussion then has to move to whether we hold them accountable anyway, or if we don't, what is the reasonable response to defend yourself, your family, and your community upon seeing a demon that appears to have 'gone wild', as they apparently are unable to keep themselves from murdering at that point.

4. Regina running when she did is completely understandable. Would it have been more ethical to turn herself in to the authorities, certainly, but trying to just flee and NOT HURT ANYONE ELSE would have been completely reasonable (though the law still catching up with her is reasonable too).

5. Here we don't have all the details, but many previous questions come to a head here. As Regina is clearly angry, is she not in control of her actions, and as such the adventurers are completely within their rights of self and community defense to slaughter the mindlessly rampaging demon? We don't even know who in this altercation threw the first blow. We see the one of the adventurer's in drawing a sword, and another pointing, but Regina's dialogue indicates she was neither intent on de-escalating the situation, or just running, she was going to fight her way out. At that point as much as anything the Adventurers could be considered to having fought in their own defense. Especially considering that we only see 2, and from previous information we know she kills around a dozen in total in this 'rampage'.

I wasn't saying demons descend into some kind of blood rage when agitated, just that it severely increases the fight or flight response, and combine that with the fact Wildy's mum snuck up behind her(albeit unintentionally) then shouted, that's a recipe for getting slashed. I'm sure has she been infront of Regina in clear few she would have been fine.

And even if they did, they would make killing them Less justified, as it's something beyond their ability to stop. In that case some method or tranqing them would be the appropriate response.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Only comment I have (other than congratulating both sides on being coherent and polite and reasonable, even if we're all disagreeing here) is to point out we don't know what the adventuring party was going to do.

Perhaps they were merely looking to contain her until they could get some backup, because they weren't up to taking on a rampaging demon. Perhaps they were looking to defend themselves from the rampaging demon, and simply weren't up to the task. Perhaps they were on the "it's a demon, kill it on sight" group. We really don't know.

I mean, heck, maybe they shouted "Halt, Fiend!" in the manner of The Tick - but from the look of them in her memory, I'm guessing they were shitting themselves. :-(

[Dishonored]

I mean, heck, maybe they shouted "Halt, Fiend!" in the manner of The Tick - but from the look of them in her memory, I'm guessing they were shitting themselves. :-(

To be honest, it's what I'd be doing in that circumstance.

[keybounce]

There's another consideration. Even if Regina is somehow guilty of assaulting Dan, and accidental manslaughter, what is the appropriate penalty?

What would you sentence a 15-year-old to in our society, if this happened to them?