[Art/Writing] Fanarts + I might dedicate some time to DMFA

[Offbeatreboot]

I saw 3hardboiledeggs made a post about fanart a couple of months back and figured that sometimes shameless advertisement isn't a bad thing.
So I've drawn Devin, and only Devin from DMFA for now. I love his design to no end and in general think he's an awesome character.



And I've been thinking. I don't have much in the way to draw as of late. You can only draw your own OC's for so long until they just get exhausted.
So why not take my time and spend it on DMFA considering the amount of entertainment it's given to me.

Not to even mention the story is mindblowing and how it's written is straight up impressive.
I've had my own comic idea for a really long time but haven't even started writing it due to how complex the story is.
DMFA kind of gives me a glimpse into how I should go about writing my own story. So I'm hella grateful for that.
The biggest problem is having a couple of characters who would all be "Main" characters. DMFA seems to be the first webcomic (That I've seen) to pull that off seamlessly.
I'm honestly more invested in Abels' story than in Dans'. While I used to dislike Abel for taking panel time away from Dan.
There's no "Clear" main character. All of them are equally important and that's what I'm hoping to pull off as well.

All that being said, I'm horribly inconsistent with work. I mean HORRIBLY inconsistent.
I'll say one thing and do 20 others before I even begin thinking about what I've said.
So take this post with a grain of salt. Here's hoping I can do something consistent for once.
And uuuuuh... So... Any suggestions? lmfao

Thank you for your time reading~

[WhiteFox]

Ouff... where to even begin? First question, I suppose, would be: are we talking about a fancomic based on DMFA, or an all original work? There's ups and downs to either. Fancomics are much easier, since most of the heavy lifting of establishing setting/races/atmosphere is already taken care of. On the down side, continuity... as developments occur in canon, new information can invalidate or contradict future plans for fan-comic... This is why I eventually decided to abandon my own comic project: (I didn't know what a big deal a 'cubi clan actually was, and figured they were more like extend families rather than what basically amounts to distinct subspecies of cubi. Nor did I realize that cubi tendrils were basically stronger/sharper than steel, forcing me to figure out why one of my main characters would dedicate their life to the study of swordsmanship. Also: the act of 'cubi shape-shifting hadn't actually been shown in DMFA at that point, so I'd had my own ideas of how it looked, which lead to one or two confusing moments.

My advice would be this: start small. try a few short stories, three to five pages apiece, before launching into a gigantic epic. Maybe a few gag strips, one shot stories, etc. Just to get a feel for things.

Simpler character designs are preferable... also, consider what you enjoy drawing when you come up with designs. eg: if you don't like drawing flowing fabric or long hair, don't use them in your designs... if you enjoy drawing short hair and latex, use those in the designs. You may have to draw these guys 5 to seven times per page, a design that looks good but is a pain to draw will wear thin after 10-15 pages.

How are you with backgrounds/scenery? Even rudimentary background elements can make a huge difference in the visual quality and presentation of a comic. Even a simple horizontal line denoting a horizon can go a long way towards establishing a sense of place.

As for consistency: in terms of productivity, I find that as I write/draw a comic, I'd get ideas for more things to write and draw. So, once you get a comic started, it's not hard to keep the ball rolling.

Visual consistency, on the other hand, is absolutely crucial. I had to run a checklist when I was drawing pages, cuz I'd forget to include things like characters ears, horns, one or both wings (I hope you like drawing wings, cuz it's basically impossible to do a DMFA comic without them), tails, bits of the outfits, etc. It's pretty much the one thing readers won't forgive or overlook.

A comic will test you, though... you'll discover gaps in your art skills that you didn't even know existed: drawing a kitchen scene? What does a teapot actually look like? Are round door knobs suitable for a fantasy medieval setting, or are they too modern-ish? It's a great learning experience, really. X3

Really, I think the one thing that's absolutely indispensable for starting a comic is a clear concept of the characters. Personality, background, ideas for how they grow as people throughout the story. If you have that, everything else falls into place... if the characters start doing things you didn't expect, let them.

Anyway: hope this helps some, looking forward to seeing what you come up with. bein a vous, -WF X3

[Offbeatreboot]

Mine is an original concept. And I don't have a problem with the visuals. I can draw a comic fine, have done in the past.
(Though due to laziness and/or to cutting corners and/or not knowing what the hell I was doing, they weren't the best quality.)
Of course I'd work a little harder on an actual STORY that I want to share with the world.
Finding quirks in your drawing abilities? That's what studies are for lmfao

The problem is in fact the story. It becomes a problem when you want to have (at least) 3 main characters, in 3 almost completely different moods and tones (almost settings even) and have it all connect.
DMFA kind of has that. Each character although very obviously connected, in the end is living their own life, a lot of the time disconnected from each other.
I know Abel, Wildy and Jyrras (Among others) are listed as supporting characters, but I don't feel like that's the case.
(Not to even mention the fact that Mab now feels like a supporting character.)
They all feel equally as important. And that's a first for me.
I've seen plenty of comics that have a large cast of secondary characters. But this is the first I've seen to have so many so well implemented.
Not to mention the whole thing just has this giant cloud looming over everyone's heads.
(But it's a real clever cloud. It lets the sunlight through and you don't notice it.)

It's a great story and studying it, like I said will give me a glimpse into how I should write my own giant clever cloud looming over everybody.

(I'm still going to be too lazy to start it for a long while. Not to even mention I've already started working on a side short that's been on hold for way too long.)

[Merlin]

I really like the way you've drawn Devin!

As far as starting comics, my feelings are that you've got to strike while the iron's hot! Once you start it it's begun, and it's much easier to move from there than from the planning phase. If you wait until you've got everything planned through it might not happen, and things tend to change as you start drawing too. I think you should do eeet!

[Tapewolf]

On the down side, continuity... as developments occur in canon, new information can invalidate or contradict future plans for fan-comic... This is why I eventually decided to abandon my own comic project:

That is the big risk.  With Project Future I deliberately set out to design something that was plausible given what we know, even so there were a few shoes dropped.  There's only a couple of things which I haven't been able to explain away or retcon out and for the most part those are fairly minor.

The think the most upsetting one was when it became clear that 'cubi can go off on a total emotional bender or are otherwise very excitable.  I moped for a few days, then realised that most of my characters behaved that way anyway.

Nor did I realize that cubi tendrils were basically stronger/sharper than steel, forcing me to figure out why one of my main characters would dedicate their life to the study of swordsmanship.

That's actually an easy problem to deal with.  'Cubi aren't popular, in a number of places being seen to be a 'cubi will have you executed or murdered.  That means if you're doing the adventuring thing, you'll be pretending to be a Being, and fighting the way Beings fight except as a last resort.
You've also got the not uncommon situation of a 'cubi brought up as a Being (DMFA 602 - "Do you honestly know how many adventurers turned 'cubi have come SAIA thinking they can just grab a sword and show 'em who's boss?") - like Dan, they'll have spent their life so far with a sword or similar weapon.

With fan-comics the most important rule I feel is to avoid the canon characters.  There are some who are fairly central, e.g. Fa'Lina (though Amber has strongly hinted that she won't survive the DMFA storyline, so avoid her in stories set in the future.).  If you do need to include them, keep the cameo short.  Study their dialogue and mannerisms to try and avoid breaking character.  Do NOT have your personal character as Dan's best buddy or Abel's lover or something.  Just no.


The approach I took with PF was - well, actually I wrote all the stories as text first since I figured a comic was out of my reach at the time.  I still usually write that way, do the thing as a story, then rewrite it as a storyboard so I can see how it can be broken down into panels and pages.  That said, I've done a couple of comics (e.g. 'To Catch a Demon' and 'Turning a New Page') which were done directly as a storyboard.

So yeah, I like to have the whole story planned out first, otherwise you risk the situation where the comic suddenly stops because you've run out of story.

That said, I agree with Merlin - start, even if it's just a couple of joke comics or parodies.  That's how DMFA started, after all.

[Offbeatreboot]

Are we absolutely sure there's no way to make a long lasting series with an intricate and captivating story and amazing art design without the whole, actually making it bit?

[Razmoudah]

I have personally read a couple of webcomics that had no definite direction, no planned scripts, nothing created in advance outside of character designs.  They usually end up a lot like Non-Sequitor and The Far Side (sorry, those are syndicated comics that I know of).  If the creator gets a bit lucky it might end up closer to B.C., Beetle Bailey, The Wizard of ID, Dennis the Menace, or one of the other well known syndicated comics that most major U.S. newspapers run, but I haven't seen one that had an intricate and captivating story.

Now, I have seen ones that had an intricate and captivating story, had an outline for where it was going to go when the artist started creating it, and after the first 'chapter' (however that was defined, if it even had chapters) was off and running in an entirely different direction and 90% or so of the outline had been tossed aside and forgotten.  By the way, most of those are still running, and tend to be amongst the longest running webcomics that I read.

So, in conclusion I say that you need to start with a definite story to tell, but don't feel the need to hold yourself to it all that heavily.  It mostly just gets your characters pointed in the direction of telling a story and once they get used to it they'll keep telling one, even if they go so far off the reservation you're not even sure they're on the same planet anymore (assuming this isn't a sci-fi story, in which case of course they aren't on the same planet anymore).  I have come across ones that did the second thing and flopped, but I think that's more because the creator tried to keep telling the story beyond its natural conclusion, instead of starting a new story.

[Tapewolf]

So, in conclusion I say that you need to start with a definite story to tell, but don't feel the need to hold yourself to it all that heavily.  It mostly just gets your characters pointed in the direction of telling a story and once they get used to it they'll keep telling one, even if they go so far off the reservation you're not even sure they're on the same planet anymore

This is a good point.  The original story behind Project Future was short, it was actually the first six chapters.  There was no clear plan beyond that.  I had the idea for Dorcan around that time, and that kept things ticking over for a little while longer.  Then I started to think about what would happen when Josh went back to his secret services job with a completely reconstructed body made by someone who they don't trust.  Then I asked Sunblink if I could cameo her character Keaton to act as the villain, borrowed bits and pieces of her backstory to give her a rationale, and that gave me a fascinating new character to work with, and frankly, probably saved the story from an early end.

At this point, the story became self-sustaining - the things the characters were doing had effects further down the line and the story began to feed on itself for a bit.  I remember being amazed at how well it all slotted together.

[Offbeatreboot]

assuming this isn't a sci-fi story, in which case of course they aren't on the same planet anymore

HA HA this is a really weird sci-fi story.

I don't even know what I want anymore. I mean yeah sure I've got a story to tell. But making it is such a hassle.
I'm not entirely sure I'm the type to sit down and work on a project for 15 years.
To be frank, I should have started 2 years ago now. Back then I had the excuse that I just didn't think my art style was good enough.
And although I completely understood (and still do) that most comics start out with a pretty sub-par drawing style and eventually beef up into something like DMFA.
I just have this really negative relationship with failure... And anything sub-par... And even stating a project if I have doubts I'll be able to finish it...
I really should get onto fixing that little perfectionism problem... I think I may have a solution though.

Current motivation levels: 60%
That's higher than it's been in months!

[Offbeatreboot]

Though I suppose it's more Science-Fantasy than Science-Fiction. (I was surprised when I head that genre tho.)

Yet again, though, everything *technically* makes sense. Quantum theory is all kinds of fun to research and write about.
And then all of the spiritual mumbo-jumbo all around that as well. Yeesh.
... Having said that, I think writing this comment may have just solved the biggest problem I've had with this comic.
Where to start from.

Whoa, major revelations here. Anyways. Why is it that the best ideas always find us AFTER it's bed time?
Because then most people are asleep and no one else is using the ideas.

[Merlin]

Just posting to say, there's nothing wrong with starting something and not finishing it. I mean yeah ideally you'd finish what you start, however having started something at all you're considerably far ahead of where you'd be if you just never start. Even if you stop partway through you learn a lot by actually doing a comic, and that really does help significantly for any future projects.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Are we absolutely sure there's no way to make a long lasting series with an intricate and captivating story and amazing art design without the whole, actually making it bit?

I like you. You'll go places. Many of them, you'll even not be forced. ;-]

[Razmoudah]

DMFA didn't start out anywhere near as well drawn as it is now.  In fact, of the thirty webcomics that I am currently actively reading only about 5 or 6 of them started out anywhere near as good as they are now, and most started out somewhere between grade-schooler art class and high-schooler for shiggles drawing.  I have a much longer list of webcomics that I read at one point, but I really shouldn't waste that much time with webcomics which is why I'm not working on the extra seventy, eighty, or was it up to a hundred now?  The important thing is that there is a story to tell and that it is told well, and that can be done with crude line-art backgrounds with stick-figure characters.

As for the term Science-Fantasy.......I've encountered it before.  Actually, the basic concept does work out fairly well, just so long as the magic in your setting has hard and fast rules behind how it works with some decent scientific sounding explanations behind its existence and how it works.  Heck, if you've ever heard of Phantasy Star, Phantasy Star Online, or Phantasy Star Universe, that's a mutli-console set of RPGs (and they are arguably all the same base setting) that aside from the absolute earliest titles (Phantasy Star I and II) are fairly soundly Science-Fantasy rather than just Fantasy with some advanced Science.  Heck, you can include Xenogears and the Xenosaga trilogy in that, debatably Final Fantasy X, X-2, and XII all qualify, depending on how you want to define 'magic' the Chozo push Metroid into this category (the Chozo are energy manipulators, meaning they can manipulate 'advanced' forms of energy like electricity or even gravity without needing the use of tools), all things Star Ocean definitely qualify, the Ar tonelico setting (which includes Ar nosurge) is sitting in here, Wild Arms 4 & 5, and probably quite a few others as well.  You'd be amazed how many RPGs with a sci-fi setting have actually made the effort to fold their magic system into something that is Scientifically Defined.

I have many others that probably qualify, but they haven't put as much effort into defining the magic systems so I'm not comfortable automatically including them.  Titles like Aselia the Eternal, Hyperdimension Neptunia (and its various spin-offs), Omega Quintet, Cross Edge, Trinity Universe, Disgaea (which is dragged in by Trinity Universe, despite going all retro on most robot designs), Mugen Souls, Lost Dimension, most Shin Megami Tensei titles (well, they seem as if they have hard rules, but yet there are spots where the rules get hazy and they're never explained in setting, not that I definitely require that, just the implication that in setting the magic is Scientifically Defined), Wild Arms 2 & 3 along with XF (debatable if 2 and XF have settings that are scientifically advanced enough for Science-Fantasy, but 3 is, however the magic system of 3 is debatable on how Scientifically Defined it is), Enchanted Arms (personally I put this one on the divider line), Pokemon (if you try telling me that some of those moves shouldn't be classified as magic then explain the Special Attack and Special Defense stats without using an explanation that could be used for magic), a few Tales of titles (Legendia, Abyss, Xillia, Xillia 2), Digimon World titles (same thing as Pokemon, even if they don't all use the same stats), The Guided Fate Paradox/The Awakened Fate Ulitmatum, Fairy Fencer F, White Knight Chronicles, and Yumina the Ethereal.  There, that's most of my game collection that is questionable on whether or not there is enough Science or the magic is Scientifically Defined well enough for definite Science-Fantasy placement.  Many of the titles in this list probably do qualify, but not all of them.