Something else I'm wondering about...

[Howl]

Is there even a remote possibility of "official" literature being developed, either by commission or indeed, any other reason whatsoever? I do realize that writing with and without visuals are rather different, as you need extra prose to cover what would be shown in a visual medium, rather than told in a text medium. Just something else I'm wondering about.

[Amber Williams]

Sadly I doubt there will ever be any writing done, by me at least.  

STORYTIME:

Years and years ago, back when I was still a wee gal starting high school, I had to move back to my grandmother's house for a year due to my parents divorcing.  So I was more or less the new kid in the school and at the bottom of social totem pole. (aka: no friends)  I was a pretty introverted kid, and while I liked art my real passion at the time was actually writing and poetry. I had full aspirations to try to go down the road of author since I had felt my attempts at art were never going to really be up to snuff to do art remotely seriously and so the best method to get my ideas out was simply by writing them.

Cut to one of my classes a few months later, there was a substitute teacher and the original teacher had left the assignment for the class that everyone should either write a poem and essay about nature, or draw an essay something about nature.  So I opted to write a poem.   I had finished the first draft and was working on the essay part when the substitute came by and picked up the page...and proceeded to start reading it out loud.

Now don't get me wrong, I was a young teen so at this point in time I fully admit it was probably not all that great poetry...but the way he read it managed to get the whole class to laugh. And I was beyond mortified because here I was already a socially awkward peanut with no friends.  So all I could think to do was to lay my head down and cover my arms over my head and try to hide my face in embarrassment and try not to cry.  The next few minutes were a surreal sensation as I remember feeling the page being slipped back onto my desk, and just the sound of my own breathing as my hands started to lose circulation due to holding onto themselves so tight.  It was probably a thing where it felt like half an hour passed but it was only like 3 minutes.  And all I could think of was how much I wished someone would just ask if I was alright, or for some way to just be able to calm myself down so I could try to lift my head and act like I wasn't just wrecked by what happened.

Instead the student behind me made a comment and started laughing about my breathing.  And thats when I started screaming.  Just this baleful wail as I burst into tears, no longer caring about anything because I was just...so sad and lonely and hurt.  The sub had the rest of the class leave and the counsilor showed up and escorted me to her office where I waited until I got to go home that day.  

And I haven't written a poem since.


For me, it's an odd thing but I suspect because of it...I am not sure I will ever be able to let go of the horrible knots in my stomach that comes with showing writing that doesn't have art to buffer it.  To me, I feel too vulnerable and exposed when I just have writing.  And it's likely also why I get so wibbly when folks post typos and errors because in a way I'm infinitely more insecure about my writing than I will ever be about my artwork.  I realize that later down the road I would have gotten some pretty heavy criticisms if I went down the writing path...what happened that day was pretty much hands down one of the worst experiences I have had.

[Sofox]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear that. Are you okay? Your substitute should never have done that.

[Amber Williams]

It was many years ago when it happened, and life goes on and in the long term I've moved on as well.  At this point it is more just one of those bitter memories of the past with a couple faint scars that sneak up on me when I'm not aware.   

But in a way it had some good effects.  Had it not happened, I may have never swung into artwork and thus I may never have started the comic.  And at this point I don't regret going into art over writing. The folks I've met and the experiences I have had are a good that far outweighs any sad.   While I regret what had happened, I don't regret the path my life took aftewards. If that makes any sense. 

[Howl]

More or less. Making the best of a bad situation. You have to remember the crowd you're around now, though. Back then it was a bunch of stupid kids who easily abuse others without thinking through exactly what they're doing. The crowd you work with these days is full of people who aren't thoughtless, stupid jerks. You're working with better people now. What you do is up to you, but even aside from all that, it's pretty safe assumption that you've improved vastly since those days.

As an aside, typos in text are less writing and more just syntax. Everyone who writes anything will miss something at some point or another. It's nothing to worry about.

[Sofox]

It makes sense, it was a bad event and it shouldn't have happened but it's consequences led to positive things.

I really appreciate you sharing this with us, I'm sure it couldn't have been easy. Thank you.

I hope some day you do write a poem, just to show you're leaving the experience behind you.



Howl: I'd recommend the Tower of Art to see fanfics based on DMFA. I'd recommend Tapewolf (a friend of mine), who's written a huge amount of stuff based on the DMFA-verse.

[Howl]

Actually... I was also thinking, maybe have someone ghostwrite it for you? Proofread to make sure that everything's in order, in accordance to what you think has to happen, and just someone else do the actual composition.

I don't know. Again, was just wondering.

[Sofox]

Howl, sorry to intercept your message to Amber but what exactly are you looking for here? Are you looking for a novelisation of DMFA where the full story of the webcomic is adapted into written form?

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

More or less. Making the best of a bad situation. You have to remember the crowd you're around now, though. Back then it was a bunch of stupid kids who easily abuse others without thinking through exactly what they're doing. The crowd you work with these days is full of people who aren't thoughtless, stupid jerks. You're working with better people now. What you do is up to you, but even aside from all that, it's pretty safe assumption that you've improved vastly since those days.

Nah. We've still got a bunch of thoughtless, stupid jerks. They're just on her side now, and are called moderators. ;-]

[Howl]

Phah! And to answer that, no. I was just figuring that a story of sorts would take less time to put together than a comic about the same subject, since in all writing isn't as large a time investment as writing, and then drawing pretty elaborate pictures to go along with it. Though, the answer is already given, and it's an acceptable answer. My curiosity is put to bed.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The difference between writing for a comic and writing a full up story is that you can fudge the edges while writing the comic; you don't need to tune every single word when writing the story, and you can skip large descriptions by saying "draw a picture of a landscape here"; if you're writing a story, you need to describe exactly what sort of landscape, how many trees, what sort of trees, what state of year, etc etc ad nauseum, and tune every word to precisely what you want it to say.

That's a _lot_ more work getting right; sure, maybe you and I would settle for mostly right, but Ambaargh wouldn't feel right putting it out there without doing her very best with it. And that would likely take longer (for her) than the comic strips - if only because she's got used to doing the strips, and not to tuning words. Different skillsets, you know.

(not hammering this home for you, just answering in case anyone else was wondering the same thing)

[Howl]

Fair point, better at one than the other. It goes the other way too, in that (you wouldn't know it) for me, if you asked me for even a single uncolored, as-hacked-together-as-possible comic panel, you'd get it shortly after the Sun burns out, while a block of prose covering the same situation would have a possibility of turning up. Case closed, I suppose.

On a very, very loosely related note, I sometimes wonder if it would ever be possible/plausible to roll back through the KB archives and tag everything with some commentary, likely with some sort of "Retroactive" tag that persists until about #1427 (the last comic that doesn't have a little block of commentary beneath it). It'd be neat, but still probably something to keep on the shelf until other things are clear.

[Rafe]

Let me say now that I'm the last person to try to prod anyone into some creative process - writing or whatever - when they don't feel like doing it.  Forcing creativity never seems to work well, whatever blockage causes it.  Good stuff happens when it's ready to happen, and unless there's some motivation coming from inside you, nothing much is going to come from it.  So to Amber: don't think I'm trying to push you with this.

There are all kinds of approaches to writing comics.  I've been lucky enough to have known some people who are amazingly gifted and hard working enough to have gotten some success and recognition from it.  One is David Hopkins.  Mr. Hopkins usually has several things going on, comics of his own and collaborations with others like Roz Gibson's Jack Salem series, but he's probably best known for Jack, the gut-wrenchingly emotional comic where cute, big-eyed Warner Bros. inspired characters deal with life, death, and the afterlife.  Mr. Hopkins is the first to admit he doesn't like to churn out all that artwork.  He loves to find other artist to do guest strips and otherwise help him out. Luckily, he's a nice guy and has some talented friends who volunteer.  It's not that he couldn't do excellent art himself, it's more that there isn't time in his process.  What he's good at is directing his comic.  He comes up with great scenes and moments and presents them.  He borrows characters from other comics (including DMFA) and uses them like cinematic actors, getting some Oscar-level performances from them.

Another is Albert Temple, who does Gene Catlow.  If you've never seen it, Gene Catlow is very much like an old-fashioned newspaper adventure comic, with heroes and villains, and cliff-hanger situations.  His character designs are pretty simple, and he saves some work by throwing in photoshopped backgrounds.  There's nothing breathtaking about his art.  What he does better than just about anyone though, is use the English language.  It may be an action comic, but the best part is his literary approach.  Some people might say Gene Catlow is "wordy" at times (and it does look like an illustrated novel once in a while), but that's how he gets his ideas across.

Getting back to Amber, her art for DMFA is obviously good.  It isn't elaborate - you don't need that in a comic you have to draw week after week.  But you can tell she takes it seriously by how much attention she puts into the details.  She also puts a lot of attention into all the other details, from the character's backgrounds to all the rules governing how the world of DMFA works.  Plenty of other authors skip over such things, or deal with them only when they have to (and get annoyed at fans who notice this).  I truly have never seen anyone who was as good at keeping so many details, even minor ones, in their head as Amber is.  The process of thinking them all up in the first place is no small feat either. All these talents are nice to have, but what Amber does better than any comic author I know of (seriously, anyone), is the construction of her stories.  Anyone can throw in a plot twist or two, or put some character into an unexpected or embarrassing situation, but very few seem to really understand how farce and situational comedy really work.  Amber, is just naturally talented in this way - building up her characters, showing us with seemingly random and ridiculous events, and and masterfully weaving it all together into DMFA we all know and love.  That would probably translate well into writing, if you were inclined to do that, but what you're doing now is fine with me.

So Amber, you're good at what you do.  I hope you enjoy it as much as we all do.

[Scow2]

The difference between writing for a comic and writing a full up story is that you can fudge the edges while writing the comic; you don't need to tune every single word when writing the story, and you can skip large descriptions by saying "draw a picture of a landscape here"; if you're writing a story, you need to describe exactly what sort of landscape, how many trees, what sort of trees, what state of year, etc etc ad nauseum, and tune every word to precisely what you want it to say.

That's a _lot_ more work getting right; sure, maybe you and I would settle for mostly right, but Ambaargh wouldn't feel right putting it out there without doing her very best with it. And that would likely take longer (for her) than the comic strips - if only because she's got used to doing the strips, and not to tuning words. Different skillsets, you know.

(not hammering this home for you, just answering in case anyone else was wondering the same thing)

You can also work in a lot more subtlety with a comic than a novel. It's impossible to pull off something like a Funny Background Effect in a text-based medium.

Also - people who can draw get a LOT more respect and attention than those who's only artistic talent is arranging letters to spell stuff.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

You can also work in a lot more subtlety with a comic than a novel. It's impossible to pull off something like a Funny Background Effect in a text-based medium.

Also - people who can draw get a LOT more respect and attention than those who's only artistic talent is arranging letters to spell stuff.

I beg to differ. It's _possible_ to do the Funny Background Effect in text. It's just much much harder to _keep_ it background, and not have it take over the foreground. _That_ is where the talent and skill and practice come into it.

All IM(NS)HO, of course.

[Howl]

Also - people who can draw get a LOT more respect and attention than those who's only artistic talent is arranging letters to spell stuff.

In spite of those who would deny it, this is brutally true.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Also - people who can draw get a LOT more respect and attention than those who's only artistic talent is arranging letters to spell stuff.

In spite of those who would deny it, this is brutally true.

I believe this is because men[1][2] are generally more responsive to visual stimuli; women tend towards the textual. Or so I'm told; I haven't seen any research to this end, and I'd like to, but it holds mostly true in my experience. Mostly.

[1] Werp! Werp! Alert! Massive generalisation[3] incoming! Werp! Werp! ;-]
[2] And, of course, men are the vocal majority on the internet. We might not outnumber the women, but a large number of women disguise themselves as men in online communities because of the anonymity[4][5] factor, et al.
[3] This means, of course, that there are many exceptions to this. Ho hum.
[4] "Nobody knows who I am, so I can be a dick to any woman out there because show us yer tits or gtfo, yo!" :-( Morons, and not anything like as anonymous as they like to believe, but they're very vocal. I can totally understand the wish to hide yourself soas to avoid their attentions, because the time spent slapping them down could much preferably be spent, say, enjoying yourself...
[5] That's probably enough footnotes. >.>