8/03/2012 [DMFA #1328] - Curiouser and curiouser, said Alice

[Farry]

A thing with  pheonix oracles is that...

Slight oopsie with the spelling there. Also in the strip.

I was going to comment on the Phoenix Oracles and didn't know the spelling myself -- so I Googled for it, then noticed the letter transposition in the strip. It's correct in the Demonology page, though.

[Gabi]

A thing with  pheonix oracles is that...

Slight oopsie with the spelling there. Also in the strip.

I was going to comment on the Phoenix Oracles and didn't know the spelling myself -- so I Googled for it, then noticed the letter transposition in the strip. It's correct in the Demonology page, though.

I think it would be best to PM Amber about it, rather than post it here. She may not see the post among all the others, and if she does see it and fixes it, then the post becomes outdated.

[Lying Foo]

i don't think Pyroduck and Lorenda count amongst her close friends, but Pip and Fa'Llina make PERFECT sense... i think i had thought of Pip at the time, but just forgot about it until now... but i had never even CONSIDERED Fa'Llina until you mentioned it and it makes PERFECT sense...

Regardless of who the others are, though, it seems strange that she would hold Jyrras worthy of a boon and not her darling Merlitz... but I suppose it's entirely possible the other three are Dan, Pip, and Fa'lina (which would also mean that, of course, two will die... in a decade or six).  In that case, if you're right about Pip's boon being his intelligence, Dan's was saving him from Regina, and Merlitz's was saving him from Aaryana (or possibly breaking up Dan and Aaryana), then the one that remains would be... Fa'lina...

Hoo boy.

[lycaonpictus77]

i don't think Pyroduck and Lorenda count amongst her close friends, but Pip and Fa'Llina make PERFECT sense... i think i had thought of Pip at the time, but just forgot about it until now... but i had never even CONSIDERED Fa'Llina until you mentioned it and it makes PERFECT sense...

Regardless of who the others are, though, it seems strange that she would hold Jyrras worthy of a boon and not her darling Merlitz... but I suppose it's entirely possible the other three are Dan, Pip, and Fa'lina.  In that case, if you're right about Pip's boon being his intelligence, Dan's was saving him from Regina, and Merlitz's was saving him from Aaryana, then the one that remains would be... Fa'lina...

Hoo boy.

Oooooh, I had forgotten about her saving Dan! That is actually perfect for boonhood.

[Nino]

i don't think Pyroduck and Lorenda count amongst her close friends, but Pip and Fa'Llina make PERFECT sense... i think i had thought of Pip at the time, but just forgot about it until now... but i had never even CONSIDERED Fa'Llina until you mentioned it and it makes PERFECT sense...

Regardless of who the others are, though, it seems strange that she would hold Jyrras worthy of a boon and not her darling Merlitz... but I suppose it's entirely possible the other three are Dan, Pip, and Fa'lina (which would also mean that, of course, two will die... in a decade or six).  In that case, if you're right about Pip's boon being his intelligence, Dan's was saving him from Regina, and Merlitz's was saving him from Aaryana (or possibly breaking up Dan and Aaryana), then the one that remains would be... Fa'lina...

Hoo boy.

Is Mab's crush on Merlitz actually considered canon though? I guess I felt like it became a little out of character so it seemed like one of those early strip things... especially since it literally never came up again in the later comics.

Regardless, I agree that Merl could have been one of the five, but it seemed like Amber was saying that about the boons in response to the theories about him being one of the two friends she'd lose, so I still have to err on the side of him not being one of them.

I also assumed that Dan was the one who hadn't used his boon yet, since the strip cuts right to him after Mab mentions that point, but I know that doesn't make that for sure (and that Fa'Lina might have used her boon in the creation of SAIA, since if tri-wings really had that kind of power then you'd probably see many other pocket dimensions popping up - it seems like something you might need some fae magic for. But it could also have been that Fa'Lina is particularly crafty and found a way to do it that other tri-wings had missed - or that it requires some sort of price that makes it so unappealing that nobody else would do it).

Fa'Lina definitely does fit into the category of 'people ('/furries') who have the power to change their world' that Mab had given. Jyrras of course does as well - he's probably the one who can destroy it. Merlitz? Ehhh.... maybe not so much.

[TacticalError]

...(and that Fa'Lina might have used her boon in the creation of SAIA, since if tri-wings really had that kind of power then you'd probably see many other pocket dimensions popping up - it seems like something you might need some fae magic for. But it could also have been that Fa'Lina is particularly crafty and found a way to do it that other tri-wings had missed - or that it requires some sort of price that makes it so unappealing that nobody else would do it).

I always thought SAIA was kind of under some sort of teleport and cloaking spell- so maps show that SAIA was somewhere in this ridiculously large radius, but it could be anywhere in it at any given time and it would be invisible unless you walked into it. And there'd probably be a barrier around it or something as well. Can Warp-Aci even teleport between dimensions once summoned anyway?

[Tapewolf]

I also assumed that Dan was the one who hadn't used his boon yet, since the strip cuts right to him after Mab mentions that point, but I know that doesn't make that for sure (and that Fa'Lina might have used her boon in the creation of SAIA, since if tri-wings really had that kind of power then you'd probably see many other pocket dimensions popping up - it seems like something you might need some fae magic for. But it could also have been that Fa'Lina is particularly crafty and found a way to do it that other tri-wings had missed - or that it requires some sort of price that makes it so unappealing that nobody else would do it).

Pocket dimensions may not be quite that hard, Matilda seems to sell them, and I think Abel has made a couple (e.g. the mirror, his sword trick).  But that aside, I do believe that the creation of SAIA - or some key aspect of it - was Mab's boon.  And it absolutely has changed the world, at least for the 'Cubi.

[Nino]

I always thought SAIA was kind of under some sort of teleport and cloaking spell- so maps show that SAIA was somewhere in this ridiculously large radius, but it could be anywhere in it at any given time and it would be invisible unless you walked into it. And there'd probably be a barrier around it or something as well. Can Warp-Aci even teleport between dimensions once summoned anyway?

You mean like Hogwarts Just kidding. But seriously, here is where it says it's tucked away in a small plane of existence. I think it was called a pocket dimension elsewhere, maybe around the time it was explained how Warp-Aci work, but I'm pretty sure the two phrases are interchangeable anyway.

Pocket dimensions may not be quite that hard, Matilda seems to sell them, and I think Abel has made a couple (e.g. the mirror, his sword trick).  But that aside, I do believe that the creation of SAIA - or some key aspect of it - was Mab's boon.  And it absolutely has changed the world, at least for the 'Cubi.

Oh, right, I forgot about that. But yeah definitely - Mab had said 'change the world' in the present tense, but it's already been proven with Fa'lina.

[Tapewolf]

Oh, I meant to add that in terms of changing the world, I have to wonder whether Jyrras' boon was his unnatural talent at electronics (he's 21, has apparently been running Jycorp for some time).  It may be that the business with Albanion's marking was just a random favour...

[Lying Foo]

Jyrras's boon was having the curse resolved.  He said it would "mean the world" to him, and the way Fae boons work, that made it an obligation.

[Brunhidden]

were on topic again? is the tea party cancelled? i was so looking forward to it



perhaps we should chart up things we can obviously attribute to being a gift from mab, to keep a running tally of confirmed boons other then the bangle thing. granted some of theese boons likely predate the chronology of the comic or possibly happened while we were watching toned cubi abs or something

[Starcat5]

A thing with pheonix oracles is that while they can sometimes (IE: often) be ambiguous or vague, they never flat out lie.  Part of their whole purpose is they never try to give folks a straight answer because they believe it should be up to the individual to figure things out for themselves.  But as part of their nature they will never give deliberately false information.  Which is why they are often called on for information since while it sometimes means having to decipher their message, it will always be have truth behind it.

It's not uncommon for adventurers to go missing or bodies to not be found, hence why there was a system set up.  The pheonix oracles are usually used once someone is uncertain because they are guaranteed to know the difference between "the person cannot be found" and "the person is dead." and those who interact with oracles enough are fairly capable of deciphering the difference.  It's kind of like those video-game tips that you can visit when you are stumped on when to proceed next.

They cannot lie, but can they be misinformed? Can someone be magically blocked from their sight, and simply "read" that as said fur dying?

Also, and this is splitting hairs, if someone was mortally wounded, but was then turned into an undead to save their "Life", would the oracle "read" that as said fur NOT dying, dying at the paws of his ACTUAL attackers, or dying at the paws of whoever shuffled him off this mortal coil a few seconds early only to bring him right back?

[TacticalError]

You mean like Hogwarts Just kidding. But seriously, here is where it says it's tucked away in a small plane of existence.

Sorry, forgot about that. I think I skimmed over Fa'lina's Demo. page.

Also, on the topic of the thread (which I don't think I've actually pitched in on yet  ), I think Dee did it. For reasons which have probably been stated about 5 times by the third page of the thread.

[Nino]

You mean like Hogwarts Just kidding. But seriously, here is where it says it's tucked away in a small plane of existence.

Sorry, forgot about that. I think I skimmed over Fa'lina's Demo. page.

Also, on the topic of the thread (which I don't think I've actually pitched in on yet  ), I think Dee did it. For reasons which have probably been stated about 5 times by the third page of the thread.

Oh yeah, I agree with this too, unless it's someone we don't know about. Obviously it wasn't Dan or Abel (unless the prophecy was in a metaphorical sense), we can be fairly certain it was probably a real oracle and she's not lying, and it would be too far a stretch to say Aary was from Lost Lake.

My second guess would be though that this is all just to throw us off and he just got in a fight with a random cubi and died from it, and that Cubi happened to be from Lost Lake - after all, since they live so long, it could have been someone who had lived there hundreds of years ago and still been 'from' there. This seems like at least a decently likely possibility.

My third guess is he's not really dead and when Abel transformed his looks back it could be considered 'killing' him. Though I don't think this is likely, there is the fact that when Aniz changed back to Cid he 'killed' Cid off (as in, he went through ending his life through cardiac arrest) for ostensibly no other reason other than to metaphorically end his role as Cid - so maybe this is some tradition when Cubi act in the role of someone else long-term they tend to end their role by killing their facade to indicate to others their role as this being is over, so as a result in Furrae's language you can say you 'killed' someone when you stop acting as that being. Thus, Abel (the Cubi from Lost Lake) 'killed' Merlitz when he stopped acting as him.

It's kind of a longshot, but seems kind of a cool play on words if it ended up being the case. I do think if this were true though she would have said "The Cubi AT Lost Lake" and not "from", since it's a bit of a stretch to say Abel's from there though (though it's true we don't know the original village he came from I believe,  other than it was probably in Armansta since that's where the funeral was).

[tracer]

I think indirect murder hasn't been discussed enough What if it's been purely unintentional? Do oracles see what would have been if somebody acted differently?

"Killing" may be loosely defined as performing some action(s), that ultimately resulted in someone's death.

If "cubi at lost lake" means the ones living there at the moment Nitemyste and Co asked, those are Dan or Abel. If the prophecy was given at the moment Fa'Lina visited, that may include her too.

1. Dan. He failed to kill Dark Pegasus. Furthermore, he promised not to kill Regina. Thus anybody those two kill is Dan's fault.

2. Abel. More far-fetched. He has beaten Merlitz, making him wish to prove himself. And to go adventuring and likely take unnecessary risks.

3. Fa'Lina. Putting Abel to the inn to be a constant reminder to Merlitz how poorly he fared even against such a worthless excuse for a cubi. Same as above.

If "cubi at lost lake" means any cubi connected to the inn, that also includes Destania, who lived there over 2 decades, and Aaryanna, who frequently came there, even if not for long.

4. Destaina. As Biggs's assistant she could hire Merlitz for some task, even knowing he may not survive. Or she could hire him to kill Dark Pegasus, since Dan failed. No ill intentions, just not caring.

5. Aaryanna. Already discussed. Breaking up with Merlitz may have provoked him to act recklessly.

Therefore, no motive and no hidden goals are required to be called responsible for killing Merlitz. Assuming Merlitz is really dead

[Naldru]

I believe that Amber likes to mess with her minds.  (Probably while cackling maniacally.)  Therefore, Occam's razor does not apply if Amber wants a complicated explanation.

What is the definition of death.  If death is defined as the cessation of breathing and heart flow, many people have technically died and been brought back to life in the hospital.  What if the only way somebody could escape a trap was to have them meet the clinical definition of death.  For example, there was a Star Wars: Clone Wars (animated feature) that had the Jedi frozen in Carbonite so that they wouldn't be detected by the enemy base they were approaching.  On Star Trek, Next Generation there was an episode where Dr. Crusher revived some people in suspended animation because the system was failing.  She told Captain Picard that she couldn't let them die, and Picard's response was "But they were already dead."  (The episode was apparently "The Neutral Zone".)

[tracer]

What is the definition of death.  If death is defined as the cessation of breathing and heart flow, many people have technically died and been brought back to life in the hospital.  What if the only way somebody could escape a trap was to have them meet the clinical definition of death. 

Come to think of it. Does Edward Ti'Fiona have an adventurer stone? What does it show? "Dead or blocked"?

[KiloFoxx]

What is the definition of death.  If death is defined as the cessation of breathing and heart flow, many people have technically died and been brought back to life in the hospital.  What if the only way somebody could escape a trap was to have them meet the clinical definition of death. 

Come to think of it. Does Edward Ti'Fiona have an adventurer stone? What does it show? "Dead or blocked"?

i think it is very safe to assume yes on both counts there...

[Prroul]

Never is a prophecy more misleading than when it most appears straightforward.

I don't think there's a lot of wiggle room about 'killed', not like there is with 'ended her [social] life'. It's the qualifier 'from Lost Lake' which is where the vagueness is truly staggering. This can mean:

1) A cubi from Lost Lake Inn

2) A cubi from a lake which is lost

3) A cubi from a lake named 'Lost', or even a name containing the word 'lost'.

I don't buy they mean Arry dumping him. I could see that if the phrase was 'ended his life', but not 'killed'.

Keep in mind, there is also 'direct action' and 'indirect action'. As Biggs' chief minion, Destania makes a lot of orders. Maybe she ordered someone to go somewhere and do something, which resulted in his death. Or Merliz, not knowing it was Dan's mother, found out that Des was a 'cubi and confronted her. We all know who would win *that* fight, after all.

We've been keping tabs on Able, Dan, and Arry is at SAIA doing research. Enough so that Fa'lina had to go chase her off to bed/food. So none of them *could* have done the deed, directly or indirectly. The only 'cubi left that could vaguely be related to the Lost Lake Inn is Des.

Of course, Lost Lake doesn't necessarily mean the Lost Lake Inn. They could've had a sub-aquan cubi neighbor for years and never have realized it. After all, it mentions the lake, not the inn. Or maybe there's another lake or geographic structure named 'Lost Lake'. Do you know how many towns are named 'Springfield'?

[Lying Foo]

Well, there are no Mer Cubi... although I can buy the "Regina/Aliph killed him and it's Dan's fault" angle.  Or perhaps even Merlitz met his end crashing a certain party...

[Starcat5]

Well, there are no Mer Cubi... although I can buy the "Regina/Aliph killed him and it's Dan's fault" angle.  Or perhaps even Merlitz met his end crashing a certain party...

What about Amphibious Mythos Cubi? Maybe even a Dolphin or Whale Being? 

Also, HERE is an idea: At least one of the murdered Cubi was connected to Dee. What if BOTH of them were? What if the murderer is targeting her associates, and Merlitz was simply the first Being on the list?

...and apparently, we have to wait until Wednesday (but more likely Friday) to get any more information. 

[AmigaDragon]

Alright, so most of the cubi suspects have been listed and the ambiguity of the oracles questioned.

Ambiguity? I'm outright questioning their truthfulness when they resort to plain statements.

now... not to sound mean to Merlitz, but all in all, we (and Mab) KNOW that 2 characters are supposed to die. 2 MAIN characters.

But when? By Fae time scales, even death by natural old age for normal beings is a "short" time.

(i think we can take Abel out of the running for the "Cubi from Lost lake" as Merlitz pretty much left as SOON as he got there. he didn't have time to be "from" lost lake, he sould be described as "from" SAIA at that point still.

Most of the time Abel is seen without any of his wings outside the inn. Most will think he's just a being.

[Nino]

Well, there are no Mer Cubi... although I can buy the "Regina/Aliph killed him and it's Dan's fault" angle.  Or perhaps even Merlitz met his end crashing a certain party...

What about Amphibious Mythos Cubi? Maybe even a Dolphin or Whale Being? 

Confirmed nonexistant in DMFA a long time ago.. Nice try though.

[TacticalError]

On the subject of Mer, do they live in any lake and river or just ones that are close to the sea? Most inland ones might be too close for comfort to other races.

When you think about it, Gryphons and winged Creatures have the sky, Insectis have underground and Mer have the oceans... all Beings have is the surface and they have stiff competition on that. Anyway, why were we talking about Mer again?

[Starcat5]

Well, there are no Mer Cubi... although I can buy the "Regina/Aliph killed him and it's Dan's fault" angle.  Or perhaps even Merlitz met his end crashing a certain party...

What about Amphibious Mythos Cubi? Maybe even a Dolphin or Whale Being? 

Confirmed nonexistant in DMFA a long time ago.. Nice try though.

Fine. Otter Cubi, but that's my final... Oh, ****! Duck Cubi! Those guys are ALWAYS watching you! Why didn't I think of it before! 

That, or a Swan Cubi. All the concentrated territorial HATE of a swan, now with TENTACLES! 

Oh, and it looks like I was right about the update not happening until Friday. I hate it when I'm right. 

[e_voyager]

look at it this way all but one of mab's (first ? )five friends have used their boon. while it's true that Dan's been cursed by her friends  and saved by Mab on at least two occasions. one of which was with arry when she stopped them mid fight and Dan complained that she was always interfering with his fights.  as for his bangles he was abusing them which is probably why his bangles were removed after only three months and he called it the easiest three months of adventuring he ever had.

[TacticalError]

...as for his bangles he was abusing them which is probably why his bangles were removed after [url=http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_846.php]only three months and he called it the easiest three months of adventuring he ever had.

Finding a loophole in a Fae curse? Either Dan is subconsciously smart, incredibly lucky, or I've been reading too much CN:H...

[Sofox]

I don't know what to think about The Bangles, but Eternal Flame was an awesome song.

[Amber Williams]

[Ignuus66]

hehe, nice one! thanks for the great forum tool, I'll put it to good use.