Deathtrap Dungeon; Freedom is Slavery! (OOC; Closed)

[WhiteFox]

See... this is why we're up to 230 236 posts. Can we possibly reduce the chatter and do some roleplaying?

Oh, fine...

I'm going to list some terms for later on down the road, since I'm already aware that it'll be a divided issue. And these terms will involve everyone's favorite subject: Slavery! (This is more legalese/dictionary than anything else, a WIP, and is also open to suggestions.)

This is a step in the wrong direction. tl;dr.

[Mechanisto]

Posted. If I have ignored or failed to respond to anyone, please slap me around.

To me, "thrall" kind of implies a still-sentient organism that has been seduced or mind-whammied to the point of total obedience. They probably genuinely believe they serve by their own free will.

To be honest, this is the sort of important debatey stuff I wanted your characters to eventually discuss in character. However, I admit that if the details were all hashed out in the main thread, it would get completely clogged. As such, feel free to discuss such details here in the OOC, and then have your character make IC references to it in a more social or conversational manner.

Amusingly; I almost spelled discuss as discus. Is this how the ancient Greeks and Romans passed secret notes during meetings...?

[WhiteFox]

Hokay, so, If I make a golem out of flesh, imbue it with the soul of a slave to give it sentience, and fuel it with my own personal energies, is that a Slave, a Familiar, a Construct, or a Thrall?

I bring this up mostly because having this sort of loose definition is just that: loose. Chances are, nine out of ten entities are not going to fall cleanly into one definition.

As for slaves proper, I've already got some outlines for the subject as it relates to Neth. They're probably not what you're expecting. I'm saving it for IC, however.

[Edit] About the classification thing. I think it's fairly well done, but it's not really all that good for RPing.

Let's look at Thessaly. Is she a slave? A servant? She might be a Familiar, even. It's beside the point. Nethalzar isn't going to treat her like a slave or a servant, he's going to treat her like Thessaly. There's actually a complicated relationship going on there. What she is is not as interesting as who. It's a roleplaying thing.

So, in general, I'd like to get the part that I actually care about. The classification is nifty, but kind of beside the point.

[techmaster-glitch]

Hokay, so, If I make a golem out of flesh, imbue it with the soul of a slave to give it sentience, and fuel it with my own personal energies, is that a Slave, a Familiar, a Construct, or a Thrall?

I'd say slave, because that's "who" is in it. At least, the most important thing came from a slave. But yes, this shall probably come up IC. As for Thessaly, what she is depends on how she was made and where her sentience "comes from", I suppose.

And the simple point of setting the definitions now is so we -don't- have to spend pages debating it in character when the issue comes up. I don't think anyone here wants that...

[Liatai]

Danman, I've got a quick question for you; about how heavy are Glup's bags?

[Drayco84]

Amusingly; I almost spelled discuss as discus. Is this how the ancient Greeks and Romans passed secret notes during meetings...?

Dunno about meetings, but they did some interesting things... Like shaving a slave, tattooing a code on their head, wait until the hair grew back, sent them off, and the recipient shaved their head again to reveal the message.

I knew I was forgetting something... All valid points there, Whitefox.
And yes, Pet and Thrall overlap, plus "thrall" needs some redefinition. Since this is mock-legalese (And by "mock-legalese", I mean comprehendable-legalese.)

Thanks for the support, though, techmaster.

EDIT: Since it seems kinda silly to make another post for this, anyone know an English word for "brainwashed slave"? The kind whose will has been broken and they think that they serve their owner of their own will? I'm looking towards a form of "Dominate" or "Geass". Personally, I'm leaning towards "Dominates"...

[VAE]

Danman, I've got a quick question for you; about how heavy are Glup's bags?

Hmm, let's see  - there are several books, a freezing container with brains, spare magic goggles and load of electronic components -  i would say 40-50 kg each, and they are joined by a rope (he has them across  back-body like a donkey.

[Drayco84]

I can't believe this! I've been overthinking the whole thing here! (And I'm not the only one...) There's several options for plausible deniability! For those that have been "convinced" to join your side, they're servants/underlings/whatever. Thus, not subject to legal conventions. (Of course, there's always the hazard that they regain their memories/shake off your control/whatever...)

Hokay, so, If I make a golem out of flesh, imbue it with the soul of a slave to give it sentience, and fuel it with my own personal energies, is that a Slave, a Familiar, a Construct, or a Thrall?

I bring this up mostly because having this sort of loose definition is just that: loose. Chances are, nine out of ten entities are not going to fall cleanly into one definition.

As for slaves proper, I've already got some outlines for the subject as it relates to Neth. They're probably not what you're expecting. I'm saving it for IC, however.

Let's look at Thessaly. Is she a slave? A servant? She might be a Familiar, even. It's beside the point. Nethalzar isn't going to treat her like a slave or a servant, he's going to treat her like Thessaly. There's actually a complicated relationship going on there. What she is is not as interesting as who. It's a roleplaying thing.

The answer is simple! They/she are whatever gives you the most legal freedom.

Think about it in character.

[techmaster-glitch]

I can't believe this! I've been overthinking the whole thing here! (And I'm not the only one...) There's several options for plausible deniability! For those that have been "convinced" to join your side, they're servants/underlings/whatever.

When the issue comes up IC, I think you'll find Xephelon's already one step ahead there

[WhiteFox]

Think about it in character.

I am thinking about it in character. Which is why I don't care much for discussing this stuff in the OOC.

[Liatai]

 -- Oh pfft! I'm a dunce. I forgot that Gryphon Bs have darkvision. 

I'll go back and edit earlier posts tomorrow to reflect that, but it shouldn't be too much tweaking. Kittrick will be sticking close to the lights because she doesn't want to get lost, she likes the extra light, and so that she can hear Nadhiya's answers to questions. As for not being able to pinpoint Glup that accurately, let's say that she doesn't have much practice spotting things underwater in the dark.

[VAE]

Wait, now that i think of it the chuul is a psionic although does not (yet, that waits for levelling ) have much ability of communication, but if somebody intentionally tries to broadcast tthat should be enough...
so he might hear Dee being bored, right?

EDIT:
Just one minor thing to Liatai... you played it well in the end but not trusting the rope is not something i think would occur to someone because Glup wears the bags so that the rope is taking the weight of them.....

[Liatai]

Good point, I need to reword that.

*edit* There we go, done... does that seem better?

[Drayco84]

I'm back home now, and I can get back to

Wait, now that i think of it the chuul is a psionic although does not (yet, that waits for levelling ) have much ability of communication, but if somebody intentionally tries to broadcast tthat should be enough...
so he might hear Dee being bored, right?

If he's got telepathy, then probably.
Hmmm... Half of the co0nversation might be a moot point anyway if telepaths can "send" and the other party can "receive" when using telepathy. Lemme consult the rulebooks...

[VAE]

Of course it is!  The idea of selectively squaemish griphon just makes me LOL pretty much all the time,
Plus given the generous layer of algae on Glup's armor, she is right

[VAE]

Just for humorous value , to prevent further misunderstandings ,  and in order to see how anything looks when finished with a 2mm drawing pen i got today (i spent the horrible amount of 1.99 pounds!)
i made a sketchy drawing of Glup with labels

[Drayco84]

But thanks for the visual! Now Zyrais has a 90% chance of mistaking Glup for a horrible monster when he surfaces and opening fire on sight! ()

EDIT: Eeeep...

EDIT 2: I just have one slight problem with the English... "Commensale" is the feminine form of "commensal": http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/commensal. And I hate to nitpick here, but I hardly call getting devoured "being unaffected" in terms of a biological relationship.

Other than that, I thought chuul were about the size of a medium quadruped... I now know THAT THOSE THINGS ARE FREAKIN' HUGE!

Still beats getting eaten by giant spiders though... *Shudders.*

[WhiteFox]

The mods are pretty lax about some of those things, actaully.

Drayco84, you might wanna know, it's not polite speak on their behalf. I've been reprimanded for that before.

danman: Have you thought about posting it in the Tower of Art? You could add it to Glups character sheet, too.

[VAE]

Drayco84:

The thing is, often if a post is just edited nobody notices new material. If i understand it well, these type of things are mostly important for the discussion fora, here in RP, it is looser.

Edit: The thing indeed is  a commensale - it is just stuck there and uses the water he moves - it is a type of huge barnacle.
However those things kind of itch and are annoying so he tends to remove them from pincers using less than nice methods as you see

Edit2: And now you understand why i told  you before that in the case of an altercation (we were talking about reach)  you would have  to kill Glup before he got within the ten feet that is his reach


Whitefox:

I will indeed add it to the Glup's character sheet, perhaps even embedded (as it is just 86 kb).
I did not want to make a new thread in ToA and it has nothing to do with my comic either so i did not know where to post it - that is why i put it here just as a link

[WhiteFox]

The Mods don't enforce the "no topic necromancy" or "no double posting" regulation in The Tower as long as you're adding new content to your own topic, so you can post it here.

Don't forget to change the topics title. You can do this by editing the first post, and changing the "Subject" line. Include a tag for what what you're posting, the title of the pic, and the date (EG: "[Comic] DSOF#59 (03-27-'10)" or something along those lines. There's no official format, that I'm aware of).

The first post of an art topic should have an index of all the content in the topic, too. I'm not really sure how firmly enforced that regulation is, though. It's awfully handy, though.

[VAE]

Ad Mechanisto...
Shall i assume that Glup sees nothing interesting in the new portion of the cave so far?  (ie that it is just like the rest)

[Mechanisto]

That does bring something to mind.

Important note! Every time you make edits to your posts in the IC thread, make a new post in the OOC thread describing the changes and, preferably, including links to the altered posts. As Danman mentioned, new posts are easy to notice... edits slip under the radar easily, which can cause other people's responses to make less sense.

I'm fairly sure there's an official forum rule disallowing the deletion of posts in an RP thread, for the same reason; to maintain cohesion and continuity.


Also, Drayco84: When you submitted your character, I assumed he would be the same size listed in the Monster Manual... but you can make him whatever size you like. The benefits of being strong and tough balance out with the dangers of being a bigger target, and having a harder time with fine objects.

[Drayco84]

Also, Drayco84: When you submitted your character, I assumed he would be the same size listed in the Monster Manual... but you can make him whatever size you like. The benefits of being strong and tough balance out with the dangers of being a bigger target, and having a harder time with fine objects.

Nope. I always figured he'd be bipedal-being size. Besides, he's a magic-user, which are physically weak anyway. On the other hand, the ability to blow things up from a good distance is a major advantage. Plus, he's got a number of defensive spells. (And now you should be seeing why dispelling magic and anti-magic fields are dangerous to him.)

It just didn't click in my had how big chuul are until I thought that the commensale was a commoner/being. (Wiktionary failed me!) Since it's a large barnacle, I probably overestimated his height. (Speaking of which, Danman, how tall is Glup, anyway?)

[Drayco84]

Whoops... Sorry, trying to test something....

Anyway. WhiteFox has brought up a good point in the IC now, and is color-coding his spells lime green.

Any objections if I use yellow for a similar purpose? Or is that too close to the extra-special DM orange? (Red seems like the best alternative, or possibly blue or purple.)

[VAE]

well, according to monster manual he is on a 3 by 3 square which gives him the length of  five meters, the rest being scaled according to that. I think that would be without pincers, as he has 3 meters reach.
Taking a ruler and measuring, this makes him little over 2 meters tall. (20 cm head to tail, 9 cm foot to top of back, but head is a little higher)
I never said that the barnacle is a small species

[WhiteFox]

Whoops... Sorry, trying to test something....

Anyway. WhiteFox has brought up a good point in the IC now, and is color-coding his spells lime green.

Any objections if I use yellow for a similar purpose? Or is that too close to the extra-special DM orange? (Red seems like the best alternative, or possibly blue or purple.)

Hm. I was mostly doing it for dramatic purposes. I couldn't italicize it, since I was going to use quoted italics for telepathy.

I don't mind, as long as it's used sparingly. The brighter text colours are harder to read then moderate ones. Yellow looks distinct enough from orange for me, too.

[Drayco84]

Oh joy... EDITS...

http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7189.msg323151.html#msg323151 See EDIT remarks.
http://clockworkmansion.com/forum/index.php/topic,7189.msg323287.html#msg323287 See EDIT remarks.

Both posts have minor, grammar-related stuff. We're talking about a comma and three missing quotation marks in all.

[techmaster-glitch]

Wait a sec, Zyrais has offensive magic prepared against Glup? Oh dear...has he forgotten the big warning posters at the entrance of the dungeon already? And why is he doing it in the first place?

[Drayco84]

He had offensive magic prepared before that Nadhiya overlooked. (Prepared to be unleashed on anything monsterous-looking. Anything at all... Unfortunately, chuul are pretty monsterous-looking.) And it really -is- a beacon so that Glup can find his way back. Besides, combining magic is pretty tricky and it's not like it's going to explode at full power...

It's really more of a case of negligence on Zyrais's part.

"My apologies, Glup. That spell was not supposed to explode... Then again, the cookies I once tried to make through alchemy weren't supposed to come to life and try to eat people either... If anyone wants the recipe, I still have it a-AAAAAAAARGH!"
"When I find that damn recipe, I'm going to shove it up an orifice of my choice! I still have nightmares about those things!"
"See! Aaaagh! Even Dee can vouch for the cookies! Aaaaaaiiiieeeeee!"

[Drayco84]

Still, it never hurts to have a backup plan or three...

Mechanisto, how high is the ceiling where the tour's at and if a winged creature were to, say, jump into the giant hole in the middle of the staircase, would the updraft support the weight of a being-sized creature? Or would they actually need to physically fly?

EDIT: Moot point on fixing grammar by now, but it bugged me.