If you're doing it to be cool, stop doing it.

[Sofox]

(quoted because the original post is now in a state of non existence)

Look. I will level with people. As an artist, I do have my bouts of insecurity and its natural for just about every artist to get into a blue funk about their talent levels or their lack of social networking. Almost every artist will feel at some time that there is some big artist social circle network that they just seem to be stuck on the outside of and not quite able to make it. I know several times I feel like that there is some magical webcomic or furry artist or mega social network that is out there and I am all by myself. It's natural. And most of the time...its just in your head.

But honestly folks...I have seen far too many people who seem to jump into the art scene and expect connections and praise to just fall at their feet. If you are drawing to try to become the cool kid at the table, JUST. STOP. DRAWING. Seriously. It's not the nicest thing I can say...but I have seen so many people drive themselves to miserable waaaaangst because they do something, it doesnt get any recognition, and they take it as a sign that "oh god I suck! No one likes me! Why do I bother. I should just give up." etc.

No! Stop that! Bad artists! No cookies! The first person you should be drawing for is yourself. Unless someone is handing you money to draw for them, all the art you do should be done for your enjoyment. The enjoyment of others is a good side effect, but if you cannot make yourself happy with your own art...you are in the wrong field. Granted, there is a time and place for critiques and art requests and other things...but at the root of it all, you should be happy with your art for it simply being your art. It shouldn't matter if its selling for hundreds or getting a gajillion watches or favs or comments or whatever. If you are treating your art as an entrance exam to a popularity contest, you are only going to be met with dissapointment.

You cannot please everyone. But if you cannot even please yourself...then the game is over before it began.

-Amber

You know, Amber's post struck a chord with me. I can confess that often I wanted to draw more to be on the scene rather then because I enjoyed drawing. At the same time, I do sorta enjoy drawing, but just no that much because I never feel that good at it.

Whenever I look at other people's art though, I always feel the best art is where they expressed themselves, where they went for something that they love or enjoy or is true to them. When a person just goes for a style or subject just because it seems popular or because the feel they should, the result often comes back as stifled or robotic, as it can often lack the energy and fun that people who enjoy the subject have.

So how do you guys feel about the whole thing?

[Turnsky]

it's the same with webcomics.
if you're in it for the money, start looking for a real job. 

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

it's the same with webcomics.
if you're in it for the money, start looking for a real job. 

QFT.

Mind you, same goes for Amber's comments... ;-]

[Tapewolf]

it's the same with webcomics.
if you're in it for the money, start looking for a real job. 

And music.  Definitely with music, since you'll end up spending thousands on gear, mark my words...

[Kipiru]

Amber hit the nail on the head with that one! I perfectly agree with all of it. Art should always come from you, even when you are doing it for someone else. And yes, even the smallest of praise by someone else can make an artist's day, but in the end your own satisfaction with your own job is what will make you draw again. Comparing yourselves with greater artists is good, but don't forget to take a peek at someone who is still catching up to your level. And remember that we all take the same long road to perfection, we are just on different stages of it. 

[Janus Whitefurr]

Drawing - check
Webcomics - check
Music - check.

Which means I get to stick my head up and agree in the name of writers everywhere! It's certainly a comes-from-you / for-yourself endeavour, really. Granted, one can say you are writing for an audience, but it's not up to you to fit your audience's expectations (If your fanbase wants result X and you happen to do result Y, tough titties!). You have your own characters and your own story.  Eh, a lot of people have probably said this much better than I could. It all comes from the heart of the artiste - if you're just mechanically churning that stuff out for no other reason than mindless praise, you deserve a stabbing. Or is that too mean? :b

[Kipiru]

if you're just mechanically churning that stuff out for no other reason than mindless praise, you deserve a stabbing. Or is that too mean? :b

Just a bit, praise shouldn't be your drive, but it does push you forward in terms of self-confidence.

[Jairus]

Agreed. I mean, it's nice to know that there are people looking and talking about my drawings or the stuff that I write, but ultimately I do it because I really like doing it. Writing wise, I don't like reading stuff of my own that I didn't want to write, and really have fun reading the stuff that I enjoyed writing. I mean, sure, drawing is hard now, but I still have a lot of fun trying it out and experimenting and trying to find my own style. And I guess that at a certain level all of the stuff really is for me, even if I want others to see and experience it. So, Amber is quite right. I'd probably be better at clarifying this if I wasn't half-asleep right now: when I'm more awake I'll probably come back to this post and add a comment or two.

[Amber Williams]

I admit my rant yesterday was done primarily due to frustration at two individuals.  One I have known for years and despite once being a good friend, I have considered that it may be high time to just let him go since he seems completely content to sit and be miserable about his supposed lot in life.  It doesn't help that the only times he does talk to me it is because he either is fishing for compliments about a sketch which he will then complain about how no one understands his stuff and that his work isn't more popular...or he will insult and rant about events that have happened months ago and try to leech sympathy from me by making claims about how he and his art is worthless and no one likes him or it...because he is really wanting me to disagree and stuff him full of praises and ego-boosts.

The other, while similar, tends to constantly fuss and fret about how he doesn't get enough hits on his FA account and how everything he does is destined for failure and how artists worse than he seem to get thousands of watches but his stuff will be lucky to get 2 comments.

In both cases, the people are squarely in the camp of "The problem is outside of me and my control so I cannot do anything about it." and absolutely refuse to just man up and take responsibility for their own woes.  I honestly dont know why either of them continue to draw because it seems like everytime I come across them, they are so darn miserable. They make it seem like just holding up a pencil is the most painful process ever and every conversation I have had with them in the past year consists of them muttering "I should just give up." "Why do I even bother?" "Its hopeless."  "Everything I do is worthless" etc.  And after spending more time than I would ever want trying to shake them out of their funks...I am somewhat fed up with the attitude as a whole.

It's about moderation.  Wanting a bit of praise is fine. Feeling a lil jealous is natural. But when you go waaay overboard with the self-induced misery...don't be suprised when it reaps a bitter harvest.

[Rakala]

Hooray for rantings! Especially when they make sense and are correct. I know one person who had her own web comic for awhile. She enjoyed it for awhile but then in the end complications built up too much. She decided to drop it entirely and maybe start anew some day when she didn't feel so overwhelmed. I admired her for that. Whining about your art is kind of like complaining that it's hot outside. If it's so hot, then go inside.

[Mao]

This is going to seem callous, but I would highly recommend cutting them out of your life utterly and completely and with an explanation to them.  Life is hard enough day to day without others dragging you down.  Don't give them the time of day until they can prove to you that it's not going to be some great big waaaangst fest.  Even then, make it clear that even the slightest bit of waaaagnst and this conversation is over.. and enforce that.  One of two things will happen after this:  1)They'll get mad and blame you for their failures and further wallow in their own misery but you won't care because you've moved on or 2)They'll get mad at you and you may not want to talk to you ever again but will realize that they lost something important because of their incessant whining and finally do something about it.  Chances are with the last one they'll hate you and think that you let them down when they needed you the most, but the reality is that by 'cutting the umbilical cord' you've given them their best chance to grow.  It is the rarest of occasions that they eventually grow to realize that you did what was necessary for both of you.

Just my two cents on the matter.  I'm sure folks will smite me with negative IQ or flame me for it, but I really don't care.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Just my two cents on the matter.  I'm sure folks will smite me with negative IQ or flame me for it, but I really don't care.

Yeah, cause you're do so well at collecting negative IQ there... ;-]

[Emerauld Drathmir]

It's about moderation.  Wanting a bit of praise is fine. Feeling a lil jealous is natural. But when you go waaay overboard with the self-induced misery...don't be suprised when it reaps a bitter harvest.

Personally, I am an artist because when I don't draw or create something, I'm flat out miserable. 

I have a Renderosity gallery because someone said I should post stuff there.  I hate people that say something is fantastic when I post say, a work in progress that obviously has issues, and they tell me it's finished.

I keep most of my sketchbooks private because that pet peeve of mine gets my temper up.  I personally do not think I have what it takes to do something like you do Amber, on a daily basis, so I don't.  (Keep doing your work, the progression of your style and colouring are wonderful, and the story has kept me interested) 

It irks me to no end when someone will tell the artist what they should do with their work, when it is their work. 

That said,  if those friends are fishing for pity and ego-boosts, and it gets you down, perhaps it is best that you let them go softly.  Let them know that if it is not good enough to please them, perhaps they should not ask anyone else until it is, because after all, it's their own creations, and you can't delve into their minds.  They will be very upset, but perhaps they will think too.  If not, at least you know you tried.

Good luck dear, and may the resolution bring you peace.

--Emerauld

[Kipiru]

Wow Amber, where do you find such people( not like I don't have my own examples of the such, but not nearly so drastic). I'm not considering myself the best advise out there, but if I was to have a say then let them wallow in their own misery, criticize their art with all your fury. When they see that they can no longer squeeze any sympathy from you they'll leave you alone and maybe even start acting normal. Some people just need to hear someone else tell them they are right about themselves being worthless, it shakes them.

[Mischa]

I know people like that... <.<  Perhaps not to the severity of the people Amber seems to know, but still...

The other thing is that I envy people like Emerald (and I beleive Amber).  I once wrote a comment in my journal that I don't consider myself an artist -- while I may have some skills in drawing, I just don't seem to have the passion or drive that others do.  I enjoy the satisfaction that comes from a finished piece, but I hate trying to force myself to draw since it nearly always comes out poorly.  When my muse is fired up, then it's all good... but she's notoriously fickle.

As for the actual topic... I used to be kind of like that, evaluating my worth or quality based on the amount of praise I got.  Fortunately I've largely outgrown it.  I'd rather draw something because I enjoy it, rather than to try and accumulate some kind of validation from others...

[Amber Williams]

Wow Amber, where do you find such people.

Well in the case of the former, he used to be somewhat of a closer friend of mine and when I was better friends with him he wasn't nearly as terrible.  Which honestly is probably why its got me riled up, because had he been wangsting from the get-go I would have easily been able to drop him like a bad habit.  But the fact that its been a slow degrade has made things difficult cause part of me does miss the old friend I used to have...and part of me feels guilty that I may have been able to prevent it had I known to cut it off at the pass.

Nowadays though it is more morbid curiosity that drives me. I fully expect at one point he will get angry with me and burn the bridge himself.

[Mao]

I really think you shouldn't wait for him to burn the bridge Amber.  This is currently an unhealthy situation for both of you and the longer you put it off the worse it's going to be for both of you.  I know you don't want to hurt your friend or to suffer the short term grief that cutting it off will inevitably cause but this will be less painful then to let it drag on.  Whatever you choose though, I hope it isn't as painful as some of the situations that I've been in and that it ultimately turns out as well as it did with mine.

If you want to hear about my similar experiences feel free to PM me about it and I can relate a somewhat similar situation to you.

[mopman]

I think your advice covers a lot of feilds Amber , if you are doing something for someone other than yourself you will not be putting your heart into it.

[Alterationartist]

The only thing worse than doing art for praise, is doing crappy "art" and DEMANDING praise like some people. Then the gas line breaks and somebody gets aface full of flame.

[rabid_fox]

I'm the coolest artist since Leonardo DaGoff

[!KCA]

I fully expect at one point he will get angry with me and burn the bridge himself.

And then try to build it again.

It sounds like you might have an "emotional parasite." My sister's "best friend since forever" turned out to be one of these. Nearly a decade later, the ex-best is still trying to reestablish the connection.

Ironically, the person who pointed out the doomed friendship later turned out to be something of a vindictive loon.

[Ghostwish]

  And after spending more time than I would ever want trying to shake them out of their funks...I am somewhat fed up with the attitude as a whole.

Heh, you should probably get a medal for that alone. I would've just left em to their own devices, but that's just pessimistic selfish little ghostwish.

I always thought art and webcomics were something you did for fun first, praise second? I mean, I can't draw to save my life, but I always thought Mrs. Williams drew DMFA because, well, she wanted to? Last I checked, she didn't have a gun to her head in order to draw the comics.. (unless Fluffy has SERIOUSLY lost it.)

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Fluffy has seriously lost it, but I believe she's still using the wand of motivation, and hasn't moved up to the gun yet. ;-]

[Azraelle]

This is the main reason my comic takes so many breaks.  Once I realized that it was getting popular, my only drive to continue doing it was "because I'll be letting people down if I don't."  That made it not fun anymore.  I think it was the Ursa Majors nomination that did me in.  It felt like an obligation after that.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

This is the main reason my comic takes so many breaks.  Once I realized that it was getting popular, my only drive to continue doing it was "because I'll be letting people down if I don't."  That made it not fun anymore.  I think it was the Ursa Majors nomination that did me in.  It felt like an obligation after that.

Which is a pity. I think your (and Amber's, for that matter) better strips are the ones where you cut loose and do something that you enjoy.

[Tapewolf]

I can't speak for Ren, but my main motivation for doing PF is because I like the storyline and I want to see it brought to life.

[Azraelle]

This is the main reason my comic takes so many breaks.  Once I realized that it was getting popular, my only drive to continue doing it was "because I'll be letting people down if I don't."  That made it not fun anymore.  I think it was the Ursa Majors nomination that did me in.  It felt like an obligation after that.

Which is a pity. I think your (and Amber's, for that matter) better strips are the ones where you cut loose and do something that you enjoy.

Not wanting to turn this into a thread about my comic, I'll just simply say that once the current arc is done, I'll probably go back to my earlier style of doing one-shots instead of long drawn-out story arcs.  Updating once a week means the story just drags on anyway.

[Alondro]

My art sucks and no one understands me!   

Seriously.  My art does suck.  And no one understands me... I don't even understand me.

But that's insanity for ya!  HEE HEEE HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!   

[Lady Buggery]

I know how frustrating it can be to be "an artist" because often times I don't feel arty enough or my lines aren't straight enough or my anatomy isn't anatomy-y enough. And as a "comic artist" its rather frustrating when you work really hard for few people reading your comic. But to be honest I'm going through a rough patch on the job front and keeping a routine with my comics actually helps me not slip into disorder and general "meh." It gives me a solid routine and I feel like I'm building something. So I think art should be an enhancement in someone's life, not a source of anxiety or pain. That's just me though.

[Kipiru]

So I think art should be an enhancement in someone's life, not a source of anxiety or pain.

Why not both, anxiety and pain can be quite good stimulants to make one go on with his life, so don't underestimate them! Though the mix is different for everyone.