Teen faces prosecution for calling scientology a cult

[Dakata]

[link]

The unnamed 15-year-old was served the summons by City of London police when he took part in a peaceful demonstration opposite the London headquarters of the controversial religion.

Officers confiscated a placard with the word "cult" on it from the youth, who is under 18, and a case file has been sent to the Crown Prosecution Service.

A date has not yet been set for him to appear in court.

The decision to issue the summons has angered human rights activists and support groups for the victims of cults.

The incident happened during a protest against the Church of Scientology on May 10. Demonstrators from the anti-Scientology group, Anonymous, who were outside the church's £23m headquarters near St Paul's cathedral, were banned by police from describing Scientology as a cult by police because it was "abusive and insulting".

Writing on an anti-Scientology website, the teenager facing court said: "I brought a sign to the May 10th protest that said: 'Scientology is not a religion, it is a dangerous cult.'

"'Within five minutes of arriving I was told by a member of the police that I was not allowed to use that word, and that the final decision would be made by the inspector."

(Look at the article for more)

Hey guys, have you heard about that one Scientology cult?

[techmaster-glitch]

And the whole concept of scientology isn't "abusive and insulting"?

so much hate.

[Valynth]

Don't you just love London's lack of free speech?  Pretty soon they'll start issuing "government approved wordlists" for citizens to use and any deviation from the list results in a fine/prosecution.  And a minor group such as scientology will run it all.

I gotta say Eric, you certainly called it. *hands Blair a five dollar bill*

[GabrielsThoughts]

I don't know a thing about Scientology. But, I once heard the secret of the island is that Elle Ron Hubbard is god... whatever that means.

[Victoire Épique]

...Ooh, them dangerous words. He should get a life sentence for that one. Heaven forbid, someone might be offended.

[Tapewolf]

My money's on the case silently being dropped.

If you look at the Register's take, it gets worse as it appears that the City of London district police force received various gifts from a certain non-profit organisation:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/20/city_london_scientology_protest_summons/

[Tapewolf]

I was half-right, it has been dropped, but not quite silently:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7416425.stm

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Nice to see they mentioned that it will go back to the police force.

From what I heard at the time, the police were officially happy with the polite and reasonable activity on the behalf of the demonstrators, on the whole; apparently they followed the rules, mostly followed what they were advised, and kept out of the way of passers-by, etc etc. Quite the most acceptable "riot" the police had been asked to monitor in some time, or something like that...

[Rakala]

In short:

Scientologists believe that a long time ago aliens waged war in the galaxy. Eventually an evil emperor enslaved all the aliens and threw them into earth's volcanoes where their souls inhabited humans. These aliens cause sickness, depression and pain. Scientology is the attempt to purge these alien souls in hopes of becoming immortal.

No lies people. THIS IS WHAT SCEINTOLOGISTS BELIEVE!

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

L Ron Hubbard is reported to have said "The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start your own religion."

And then went on to start Scientology.

And died a millionaire.


You do the math.

[Alondro]

That statement from him is quite well documented. 

What he forgot was that if you spout that BS long enough, eventually you start believing it yourself.  He went nuts.   

PS:  There was no evil Emperor... there was an evil Empress, however!  Guess who.. 

[GabrielsThoughts]

the whole Scientology movement would go belly up if people realized you can create your own day. think about what you want and you'll  have it eventually ... that's how God did it, and how America does things. Now if we could only stop the news from spouting off doom and gloom I'm sure the crime rate will drop off and gas/food  prices will stop skyrocketing.

[Azriel]

Scientology is not a cult, it's a money making scam!

[Reese Tora]

Scientology is not a cult, it's a money making scam!

I fail to see the distinction.

How dictionary.com defines a cult.

Yes, I see no conflict.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Hmm. According to part 1. of that definition, catholicism is a cult.

It fails on point 6, admittedly, because people tend to disagree on the "falseness" charge, but it fits the first category, no problems.

Which tends to suggest that the first category listed might be a little broad...

[Valynth]

Scientology is not a cult, it's a money making scam!

"Money making scam" is the atheist version.

[Nelix]

I still wonder what there doing with all the money... They have untold millions being sucked out of virtually all their followers, a uncertain but estimated vast amount of property and possibly more valuables than all the contents of a Swiss Bank.

I think they're trying to make a gold-crusted spaceship, (That vaguely looks similar to a Boeing 747. judging by a video I saw once.) but I'm not sure.

[Jigsaw Forte]

It's not a cult.
It's not a scam.
Because quite frankly, calling it either of those things gives cults and scams a bad name. 

What it is, is fucking dangerous.

You don't even need to be a member for them to kill you.

[Alondro]

Feh, I'd have them killing themselves after I got through blasting every one of their beliefs.

Either that or they'd try to kill me the old-fashioned way...   

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

It's not a cult.
It's not a scam.
Because quite frankly, calling it either of those things gives cults and scams a bad name. 

What it is, is fucking dangerous.

You don't even need to be a member for them to kill you.

I find it heartening to note that two and a half times as many people turned up to the poor girl's funeral as are active members of Scientology in the whole of Norway.

It will be interesting to note the fallout from this - let's see the Norwegian government tag Scientology as a cult, not a religion, and charge them back-taxes. That should be entertaining, just for a start.

[Brunhidden]

Scientology is not a cult, it's a money making scam!

I fail to see the distinction.

How dictionary.com defines a cult.

Yes, I see no conflict.

if i recall the definition of cult also depends on how many people are a member of your religion- if the number is small enough its considered a 'cult'

for example Christianity started with a cult, and for the first many years it continued to be so. you started with 12 people, and slowly converted a few hundred others.

another example- the worship of the Norse Aesir was once a very large religion, but has been demoted to cult status as very few people actually worship Odin, Thor, Tyr, Frigga, Frig, Bragi, Baldur, and so fourth and so on..... although Thor still has his own comic book, but i am willing to bet only about one person in every 10,000 who have a collage education would be able to even tell you who Bragi was or what he was god of.

third example- wiccans are not a cult, they make up just barely enough followers to be a 'mainstream' religion, however 'jedi knight' is still considered a cult, despite one half of one percent of all britts claim it as their legal religion. its got to do with how many people agree with you, think the church of wikipedia *shudder*

I think that one possible definition of our modern culture is that it is one in which nine-tenths of our intellectuals can't read any poetry.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

another example- the worship of the Norse Aesir was once a very large religion, but has been demoted to cult status as very few people actually worship Odin, Thor, Tyr, Frigga, Frig, Bragi, Baldur, and so fourth and so on..... although Thor still has his own comic book, but i am willing to bet only about one person in every 10,000 who have a collage education would be able to even tell you who Bragi was or what he was god of.

So... out of interest, who is he, and what is he god of?

[Brunhidden]

another example- the worship of the Norse Aesir was once a very large religion, but has been demoted to cult status as very few people actually worship Odin, Thor, Tyr, Frigga, Frig, Bragi, Baldur, and so fourth and so on..... although Thor still has his own comic book, but i am willing to bet only about one person in every 10,000 who have a collage education would be able to even tell you who Bragi was or what he was god of.

So... out of interest, who is he, and what is he god of?

Child of Odin and Frigg, Bragi was born with runes on his toung and is the keeper of the mead of poetry which grants the ability to rhyme indecently. Bragi is one of the three gods of poetry, the other lesser two being Hod the blind and, oddly enough, Odin. While Odin was the one who discovered the runes it was Bragi who taught them to mortals and promoted learning. Bragi was also the god of bards, singing, storytelling, and being a pompous ass. 


The word 'brag' and 'braggart' both come from Bragi- after Loki pulled some of his less wholesome stunts Braggi threatened to cut off his head. Loki agreed, providing Bragi found a way to do so while leaving his neck in tact.

Knowledge is power! I would say you run on double-A's then.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The word 'brag' and 'braggart' both come from Bragi- after Loki pulled some of his less wholesome stunts Braggi threatened to cut off his head. Loki agreed, providing Bragi found a way to do so while leaving his neck in tact.

Oh, that's easy. Remove the head just below the shoulders.

... I suspect the gods would look with disfavour upon me. They don't like sneaky people.

[Brunhidden]

i would have just split the heat at the jaw myself, but the Aesir had a name for people like me, and they usually killed that kind of people with hammers and spears

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

Technically, that's only part of his head.

Which means, arguably, that that won't be a fitting solution, either.

[gh0st]

OKAY back on subject, i could probably make a safe bet in saying that the police arrested him and confiscated the sign because as much as i would hate to admit, it could in theory ,if enough people showed up with signs like that, start a riot.

i don't know about you but from what i hear governments tend to dislike the people as a whole getting together and destroying a city block because somebody there is wrong and immoral.

the only reason why taking away the sign and sending the kid away in a car is viewed as wrong, besides the fact that Scientology is looked down upon in so many ways, is because the group wasn't already rioting. those police people would be considered heroes if the general public realized that by doing that they could possibly have stopped a mini war from engulfing half the city. that is why Martin Luther King Jr. is seen as a hero/saint, he wanted to get rid of a particular belief, racism and segregation, and he achieved that through peaceful walks, protest, and even gatherings in general. that in turn meant that if anyone was attacked by the police then it was technically the police mans fault, even if he didn't get thrown head first into jail.

i am not saying that the police officers actions are justified, I'm just saying that before you start blasting a person and their families you should look at it in all possibly directions. seriously, the church of Scientology is dangerous, it is also a cult and a money making scheme. basically it is worthy of almost anything horrible shot at it.

[Valynth]

OKAY back on subject, i could probably make a safe bet in saying that the police arrested him and confiscated the sign because as much as i would hate to admit, it could in theory ,if enough people showed up with signs like that, start a riot.

Actually the sign doesn't really matter in causing a riot, it's the suppression of opinions that tends to kick off a riot be it one group or the other.  Here in the U.S. you can protest something all day long so long as it's peaceful and no crimes are committed by anyone at the site.  If the issues are incendiary and large enough, the police take a monitoring/seperational stance, keeping the groups apart so the protests/rallies can go on without disolving into violence on part of either party.

the only reason why taking away the sign and sending the kid away in a car is viewed as wrong, besides the fact that Scientology is looked down upon in so many ways, is because the group wasn't already rioting. those police people would be considered heroes if the general public realized that by doing that they could possibly have stopped a mini war from engulfing half the city.

I don't know what you're smoking, but in most western societies we have a thing called "Freedom of Speech."  This means that both parties have the right to say whatever opinions they want about the other so long as they don't commit a crime.  The police are there to prevent a riot, yes, but they aren't there to supress an opinion as voiced by that young man even if it inspires violence, which is what they did rather than as I suggested above.  And If you banned everything that could ever possibly inspire violence, where would we live and what would we do?  I'd rather not be an amorphous blob floating around a colorless nothingness thank you.

Also:

Nice to see they mentioned that it will go back to the police force.

From what I heard at the time, the police were officially happy with the polite and reasonable activity on the behalf of the demonstrators, on the whole; apparently they followed the rules, mostly followed what they were advised, and kept out of the way of passers-by, etc etc. Quite the most acceptable "riot" the police had been asked to monitor in some time, or something like that...

Simply put this wasn't a "riot" as the Scientologists will undoubtly phrase it, but a peaceful demonstration against the group.  If you call this a "riot" then Martin Luther King Jr. was the crown prince of riots rather than the peaceful organizer of demonstrations he was.

Thanks for the quote Llearch.

[llearch n'n'daCorna]

The description of someone there was that the "rioters" were standing around shouting slogans like "Do a barrel roll! Do a barrel roll!"

Ah, here we go; someone has a .sig:
"How do you, ideologically speaking, defeat a crowd that is enthusiastically demanding that you "DO A BARREL ROLL! DO A BARREL ROLL!!" ?"

Also, the Scientologists were asked "We heard you like mudkips - do you have anything to say about that?"

If I can find a link to the blog entry, I'll post it.

Edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SraUpcJfqw
Not the blog, but a fairly interesting video report of the first protest on Feb 10th.

Edit 2:
Ahah! http://deathboy.livejournal.com/1082404.html
Knew it was somewhere.

[Alondro]

Hey Scientology!  YOU'RE A CULT!!!

*Charles starts a riot!*